Forums.NitroExpress.com

Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact NitroExpress.com: 10 gague ball gun

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies

*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

You are not logged in. [Login]

Main Index · Search · Active Topics
New user · Who's Online · FAQ · Calendar

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)

TomN
.300 member

Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington

10 gague ball gun
#223285 - 10/01/13 01:30 PM

I will start a new thread as I have started to shoot balls from this gun. I loaded 4 .748 balls in shells that I took the shot and shot cup out of and replaced it with the ball and a shot cup that I had cut the bottom and the fingers off I used fiber wads and one over powder card and a 6 segment crimp to keep it all in. they shop ok I had 3 holes in the board in a 8" group not very good but would have killed any deer that was hit. I also loaded one new shell with a load of 34.5 grains of SR7625 and the shot cup with the seal cut from the bottom and the fingers cut back to just keep the ball centered with 3 felt wads and one over powder card the other shell I loaded was the same load of SR7625 with the shot cup cup as befor but with 4 felt wads and a 8 segment crip. These last two were on the same plane and about 11/2" apart just to the right of the spot I was shooting at. I will have to load a few more of them to see how they are really shooting but if I can repeat the shot plasment I would be happy with it. All the shells droped from the gun so I fell that the load is not to much I doin't have a way to see the F.P.S. but they felt a little stronger then the shots that I took with the shells that I made from just replacing the shot load. 34.5 grains is a load I got from the card that came with the lee hand tools I got to load the 10 gauge and its for a load of 2oz shot. well I will have to load some more of that load to see if it really will be as good as I hope will post new loads as I get them shot and checked.
Tom N

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

fourbore
.275 member

Reged: 28/03/10
Posts: 70
Loc: NewEngland

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: TomN]
#223331 - 11/01/13 01:24 AM

I dont have any experience with this type of gun (if its what I think it is) but I am interested to learn.

It would help me out to know what your gun is? Is it an old black powder single shot? A Double?

The 8 inch groups at 25 / 50 /100 yards?

Are the balls little bigger than the bore? This is smooth bore? Rifled?

If this is an old gun, I wonder if it might be better to begin with black powder and try smokeless later?

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: fourbore]
#223346 - 11/01/13 02:01 AM

Tom-

Why not Goex FFg and lubed felt wadding..?

Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26537
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: tinker]
#223352 - 11/01/13 02:22 AM

Sounds promising, Tom. I'd probably be looking more toward a load of Blue Dot, SR4756, Unique, Herco or Longshot.
I'll see what I can find for loads.
Tinker has a good point for some further testing.
fourbore - double 10 bore - hammerless 3 1/2" shotgun

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

TomN
.300 member

Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: DarylS]
#223358 - 11/01/13 03:24 AM

Fourbore its a Spainish double 10 bore 3 1/2" shotgun, I am trying to get it to shot balls Looks like it will be good as the first load I shot seams to group good will have to load some meore to make sure that it wasn't just luck. I think I see why the crimp will fold back when you use to much pressure its because a ball is round and not flat on top so when you press to hard the ends of the crimp will slide down the sied of the ball as thier is no place for them to press agenst as in a load of shot the that is flat accros the top.
Daryl SR7625 was the only powder that I sean that I had a load for that I though I would be able to use I didn't see any blue dot or the other you talked about. I think that It has to do with the gun control think going on right now they didn't have much in the way of firearms eather as their is a lot of approhention as to wha is going to happen. I ordered the mighty 10 gague from BPI yesterday so that should be getting here within the next few days and it should have a lot of load data in it that I will be trying.
Tom N

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

TomN
.300 member

Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: TomN]
#223359 - 11/01/13 03:30 AM

Tinker I doin't want to ues black powder at this time as all I have are Fed. plaist hulls and I have read that its not to good for black not that you can;t use them but just that its not the best. I did look and found out that I can get brass cases at Rocky Mountain and I will proubly get some at some point but I would just like to get it shooting good first.
Tom N

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

fourbore
.275 member

Reged: 28/03/10
Posts: 70
Loc: NewEngland

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: TomN]
#223363 - 11/01/13 05:22 AM

Thank you. This should be interesting. I had a Spanish 10ga double (richland 311??), now I may wish I kept that.

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26537
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: TomN]
#223365 - 11/01/13 06:24 AM

Brass cases could require 9 bore wads, me thinks.

Reloading for Shotgunners - Robert S.L. Anderson

1 7/8oz. load
3 1/2" RP Plastic case
RP57* Primer
SP10 wad with 1/4" Fed. 16 bore fiber wad to reduce capacity
running
37.0gr. Herco
1,280fps at 10,500LUP.

RP Plastic 3 1/2"
RP57* primer
34.0gr. Herco
SP10 with 16 ga. 1/4" fiber filler
2ounces shot
12,10fps
10,200LUP

My data is - WW. 3 1/2" hull shortened to 3"
42.0gr. Blue Dot & SP10 wad
85%(1.7ounces) to 95% (2 ounces) both barrels - AYA Matador with ground chokes.

3 1/2" Fed plastic
Fexd209 primer
RP SP 10 wad
2 ounces shot
43.5gr. Blue Dot
1,210fps
10,200LUP
This one went 80% in both barrels

different book

2 1/4ounces
Winchester 3 1/2" plastic
WW209 primer
42.5gr. SR4756
Pacific Versalite
2 1/4ounce shot
1,175fps
10,000LUP - cleanest burning 2 1/4ounce load listed

2 ounces
Winchester 3 1/2" plastic
WW209 primer
48.5gr. SR4756
SP10
1,305fps
9,900-LUP beat patterns in this case

2 ounces
RP 3 1/2" hull
RP 57* primer
34.0gr. Herco
RP SP10 w/20 gauge .135" card
1,210fps @ 10,200LUP

RP 3 1/2" plastic
CCI157 primer
41.5gr. SR7625
SP10 wad
1,235fps 9,600LUP

1 7/8oz.
3 1/2" RP plastic
RP 57* primer
37.0gr. Herco
SP10 w/20 bore .135" card
1,280fps
10,500LUP

2ounces shot
3 1/2" Federal plastic
Fed 209 primer
46.5gr. SR4756
SP10 wad
1,300fps
(,800
LUP - author's favourite cold weather load.(Robert S.L. Anderson - 2nd edition)

You can find further loads in Lyman's Shotshell handbooks.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26537
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: DarylS]
#223366 - 11/01/13 06:33 AM

Lyman's second edition 1976 has data in the buck and slug section that might be of interest due to the built up wad columns, lighter than 2 or 2 1/4ounce shot loads as well as higher velocities. It also has 2 7/8" hull loads - plastic SP and paper WW hulls.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

TomN
.300 member

Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: DarylS]
#223373 - 11/01/13 07:12 AM

Daryl thanks I will try some of those loads with a ball instade of shot will try to work up to top load but ball will be a lot lighter then the shot so should not be to bad on pressure. Tom N.

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26537
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: TomN]
#223387 - 11/01/13 11:14 AM

I don't see a problem with the ball either. When I subbed, I was also using a ball lighter than the shot charge.
The shot loads I used, were 1,340fps loads and I easily got them to 1,550fps with smokeless powder - which duplicated the 7 dram black powder load for speed.
Greener's book will tell you what the BP load was, when you get your brass cases.
Made me curious - the only 10 bore load I see at a glance, is:

.775" - 670gr. "bullet" = slghtly hardened Round ball as a .775" ball's weight in pure lead is listed as 700gr.
273gr. powder, = 10 drams
11 pound "rifle"
1,600fps = 3,829fpe
recoil is listed as a mere 79.8pounds sounds like fun so far.
I expect a smokeless load at same speed with a 1 1/4ounce ball will have recoil in the 35 to 40 pound region- quite managable - but, one should fire the BP load, just to experience it. Make certain all your stock attachment screws are tight. BP kicks more than smokeless.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

TomN
.300 member

Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: DarylS]
#223404 - 11/01/13 04:31 PM

Daryl thanks I would like to use black at some point but would like to get a good shooting load first. I loaded 6 shells tonight and I got a very good crimp with the lee hand tool they have stayed crimped and I didn't push the crimp to far into the hull what I did was get a C clamp and used that to put the crimp in so that they look like factory loads. I used the bottom of the shot cup cut off then a 1/4" over powder card and 3 1/2" felt wads that puts the ball just at the line where the shell folds to crimp and has some pressure on the ball and wad's I will try them tomrrow If I get the chanch to go to the range. I'll keep everyone posted as to what works and what dosen't Tom N.

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26537
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: TomN]
#223430 - 12/01/13 02:05 AM

A fiber wad that has a 3/8" cut-out will hold the ball centred in the bore just as easily as a plastic cup wad.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

TH44
.375 member

Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 732
Loc: West UK

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: DarylS]
#223581 - 14/01/13 10:37 AM

Daryl - How do you get the 3/8" cut - out central to the bore?

I have a 10 bore gun that will be ideal for ball - 26 inch barrel but am unsure of getting a good shot - I have tried normal shot shells with shot removed and ball inserted with reasonable results but would like better

Many thanks

TH

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26537
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: TH44]
#223591 - 14/01/13 11:48 AM

You could try a 3/8" arch punch but that will probably split the donnaconna wads), or a 3/8" straight sided hole saw in a drill press. Tinker here, and maybe Curl makes holed wads.

Francis Sell used to do this to improve his 20 bore goose patterns. The hole in the base wad held the shot together for denser patterns in the 20" killing centre. He probably got the idea from cheaters in the patterning contests in England,noted in Greener's #9 book. That's where I saw it first, when I got my book in 1977. Sell wrote it up in Gun Digest in the late 70's or probably 80's.

Personally, I used the gas check cups cut from spent WWAA12 trap wads. I don't know what else to use for a 10 bore other than 2 cards or 1 fibre wad. You could use a ball diameter that fits perfectly inside the top part of a 10 bore shot cup, with 12 or 16 bore wads beneath it to give the proper height for crimping.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

TomN
.300 member

Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: DarylS]
#223650 - 15/01/13 09:47 AM

Well I went to the range today and shot the 6 loads that I had loaded on sunday. The frist two went just where I was aiming and about 3" appart just at the top of the bull. the next 2 one in the same hole or right next to it but the 3ed one was high about 8" but on left and right and the last two one in with the other 2 and one off to the right about 8" so I had 3 in a group of aroud 3" and the other 3 opend it to about 8" all would have killed a deer but I want a lot better group then this. I think that I will have to get the shot cup cut the same each time as right now I am using just sizers to cut the peddles off the shot cup and their for I might be getting longer and shoter shot cup and that may be what is casing the flyers. I think that next time that I go to the range I will take two targets to see if its one barrell or both.
This for Daryl I have been reading your posts and how does a cloth patch stay on the ball I would think that it would be pulled off as the ball goes out of the hull and unfolds the crimp just looks like it wouldn't stay and keep the ball centered.

Tom N

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

TomN
.300 member

Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: TomN]
#223919 - 19/01/13 02:19 PM

Have some new ?'s I just ordered a roll cimper and a thing that is for fixing the fold on a shot shell so one can refold it right or mabe use a roll crimp. I also ordered some .760 balls in hope of getting better groups with the 10 boer. So first ? do you have to trim the shell off some to get a roll crimp or just use the tool and roll it down this is using new hulls.I think that you would have to trin some if using once fired. If its not tight can you just keep rolling it till you get a good roll crimp or I though I seen or read that you just roll it more to get the right hight and pressure if its close to right in the first place. sorry to ask so meany ? as I have never loaded shot shells befor and all this
is is very new to me and loading balls and slugs are not even close to loading rifle loads.
Tom N.

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26537
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: TomN]
#223944 - 20/01/13 02:35 AM

I do not know HOW it stays, except the wad beneath it, is pushing on it. It certainly seems to stay just from the accuracy achieved and clean shooting with black powder loads. Without it, the fouling tends to build up, which hurts accuracy.
Middle row. These are 16 bore cases - 14 bore wads (oversize) with 14 bore and 16 bore balls for the rifled 13 bore barrel. The cloth patched 16 bore balls were the most accurate, and of course, the cleanest shooting.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

TomN
.300 member

Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: DarylS]
#224149 - 23/01/13 06:35 AM

I will be going to the range today and try some of the loads that I have been using whitch are SR7625 at 34.5 grains with a shot cup that has been cut down with .748 balls. This time I took care to get the fingers cut at the same hight to hold the ball centered. I also loaded some .690 balls in the same shot cup as they fit just right inside the cup and all I have to do is cut the fingers at the top of the ball. I know that these are small for a 10 gauge but its what I have on hand and with the way that they fit in the shot cup they may be the best for shooting. I also have on order some .760 balls they should be here sometime this week along with a spin doctor for preping the hull mounth and a roll crimper to try to get a better crimps on the balls. Does anyone know if they make .690 slugs that can be ordered as these would also fit inside the shot cup and would be heaver then the balls. I also have on order some Fed. 13/4 oz. slug loads as I would like to try them. I doin't think that will shoot to the same point of aim but they are worth a try. will let ya all know how it all works out.

Tom N

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26537
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: TomN]
#224160 - 23/01/13 09:26 AM

Lyman makes a .69 calibre Minnie Ball (hollow base). This 730gr. pure lead projectile was the one used in the .69 calibre rifled muskets in the 50's and 60's. The standard military charge was 70gr. as opposed to the 60gr. charge used in the .58's and .54's with their Minnie Ball loads. The .69's, which were merely muskets that had been rifled to the .58 Minnie Rifle pattern, ie: progressive depth from .003" at the muzzle to .011" deep at the breech. The bores remained consistant at .690".

It is possible that Dixie Gun Works has something as well.

The Lyman Minnie, the original pattern slug will either make you cringe or smile. It is only 30gr. heavier than a pure lead 10 bore round ball.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26537
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: DarylS]
#224161 - 23/01/13 09:36 AM

I once bored a mould with a rounded (ground to a hemisphere shape), 11/16" (.687") high speed drill held in a drill press. It turned out to cast .686" hollow based "balls", which when rolled between a very large, coarse wood rasp and several thicknesses of terry cloth towels, grew in size to .692". Being adjustable, it cast from 580gr. to 1,200gr. I only shot the light ones and with 140gr. 2F of powder, they kicked too much- for me. That much powder was needed to cause them to shoot to the sights, which were regulated for a 165gr. of 2f and a round ball zero'd at 100 meters.
That type of bullet be a very good idea.
We bored an old .490" Lyman round ball mould, I think it was. I could check as I still have it. It casts a perfectly hemispherically nosed bullet, with a hollow base. The base plunger was turned from a 2" piece of drill shank, cut from the mould's drill.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

TomN
.300 member

Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: DarylS]
#224163 - 23/01/13 10:14 AM

Just got back form the range nothing to wright home about the .748 were in a box that was 11 inches wide by 61/2 inches high and I couldn't find one of the shots from the right barrell. the .690 balls were in a box that was 71/2 X 61/2 inchs two of the shots were 31/2" from poi one was 41/2" and one was 3" from poi right on right and left on left in a box. I think that that load was going slow as I could hear the balls hitting the back stop board after the shot and this was at 50 yards I think that with a little work this load might work will have to shoot more then 4 shots to make sure the it is repeatable. It would be a happy suprise if the slugs shot to poi and in a good group but I doin"t have a lot of hope. Daryl thanks for the tip in the .69 minnie ball will have to look to see if I can get some.
Tom N

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

TomN
.300 member

Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: TomN]
#224373 - 27/01/13 11:02 AM

I have recived my copy of loading slugs from BPI It has only 2 loads for slugs in 10 gauge and they seam to use a 12 gauge slug with two raps of teflon tape that is also sold by BPI but at lest they give me the type and number of wads that go into loading it. It just seams odd that you would use a 12 gauge slug and not one for a 10. When I get done using the powder that I have now I will get the powder and slugs that it tells me to and try them.
Tom N

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26537
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: TomN]
#224391 - 28/01/13 12:50 AM

Tom- in your descrtiption of the patterns, you used poi, stating they balls or slugs were 3" to the right of it, etc.

I think you mean point of aim - poa which is where you are aiming, not point of impact - poi, which is where the projectile actually lands. The slugs and balls/bullet always land on the point of impact - small point and probably nitpicking but misuse of terms can cause confusion. no biggie.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

TomN
.300 member

Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington

Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: DarylS]
#224552 - 31/01/13 12:34 PM

Picked up my 10 gauge slugs today 13/4 oz from Fed. they are the only ones that load slugs for the 10 gauge. 1280 fps. I am hoping to get to the range tommrow and see how they shoot. Daryl yes I was think of poa. I still doin't get loading a 12 gauge slug with teflon rapped arown it to use in a 10 gauge but that is what the slug load is saying and they only have two loads for it. Well have a good night all.
Tom N

Post Extras:

Print Post

Remind Me!

Notify Moderator

Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)

Extra information

0 registered and 13 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator: tinker

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 17940

Jump to

NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5

Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact

Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved