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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 1875
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL !
      #113663 - 05/09/08 11:42 AM

Bigdog asked me to post these here. The rife is not finished but it's on it's way.
The metal all has to be polished up and the engraving done, and then the rust bluing. Then the checkering of the wood, which has yet to be started.
So it's going to take a bit more time, but here's "King Kong" as of today.







Edited by szihn (06/09/08 01:27 AM)


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Daryl_S
.600 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 22801
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: szihn]
      #113664 - 05/09/08 11:49 AM

A lefty - interesting. Beautiful wood, Steve. Did you make the breech from a solid chunk? Who made the barrel?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (05/09/08 11:56 AM)


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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: szihn]
      #113681 - 05/09/08 02:57 PM

Steve,

Simply incredible work! You, sir, are truly a great srtist!

Bigdog,

And you are a very brave man to buy and shoot something like this! As someone who shoots a 600 Nitro Express handgun for fun, you have my salute!

Superb, gentlemen! With an aching shoulder from just looking at this rifle, I wish you good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 1875
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #113686 - 05/09/08 03:39 PM

The breach plug was rough machined by Ed Raly, who also made the barrel. I did the tang and the comb return. I sculpted the breach to look nice, but most of it was done by Rayl.

The under rib was made for me by my friend Colin. (CowboyCS). I don't own a mill, so I asked him to do it for me. It's solid, not hollow to add weight. I had to taper it and fit it up. It's lower at the entry pipe and higher at the muzzle so the rod is parallel to the bore and doesn't follow the taper of the barrel. it also tapers to fit the flat from rear to front.

The pipes, trigger guard, trigger, comb plate grip cap, side plate and all the associated parts had to be hand made. The lock is a modified L&R Back Action. It took quite a lot of modification to the front of the lock plate and the hammer to make them work on a rifle this big.

I am going to start the metal polish tomorrow, but I think it's going to take some time. There is a LOT of surface on the steel of this rifle..

And the engraving is also going to take some time. There's a lot of room here to engrave.


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Daryl_S
.600 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 22801
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: szihn]
      #113702 - 06/09/08 12:28 AM

Thanks very much for the 'parts' rundown, Steve. What a 'big' project!
: Any idea what powder charges will be used, Bigdog?
; A full charge for a 4 bore is 16 drams - that's 436.8gr. That would be a starting to moderate load for a 2 bore and one that might not be advisable for shooting from the shoulder. Got a wheeled carriage in mind for that beast? :0

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: Daryl_S]
      #113704 - 06/09/08 01:19 AM

I can't see the photos Steve ? best, Mike

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 1875
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #113705 - 06/09/08 01:35 AM

I have been reading all I can find on the 2 bores (and I have not been able to find much either) but all I can find to read agree that "only" 275 to 325 grains is about right. You see, more than that makes the recoil beyond realistic for any man to shoot, as far as what I can tell.

I was suprized that in all the writings I have found, they say the 2 bores use less powder than the 4 bores do.
I guess with 3500 grains of lead, more powder is not necessary, and in fact, it's dangerous to produce that much recoil.

If I were going to shoot it, the load I would start with is about twenty grains. I would work up one grain per year, until I died at the age of 100 years old ------- and the gun would never kick me bad at all.


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tinkerModerator
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4659
Loc: Nevada
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: szihn]
      #113706 - 06/09/08 01:50 AM

Steve-


This thing has me instinctively calling for the shelter of The Creator.

I hear you on the 'lots of surface' comment.
You have your work cut out for you for sure.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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degoins
.300 member


Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 231
Loc: SC, USA
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: tinker]
      #113708 - 06/09/08 02:04 AM

outstanding!!!! as usual. and i love how Steve manages to make those behemoths look graceful and balance perfectly to the point that they dont "feel" like anywhere near what they weigh. thanks for posting

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MacNaughton360
.275 member


Reged: 10/12/07
Posts: 99
Loc: Indiana, USA
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: szihn]
      #113711 - 06/09/08 02:30 AM

If it's a big kicker, a right-hander would definitely risk injury touching that baby off.
Fantastic work Steve!


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CowboyCS
.333 member


Reged: 05/10/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Kansas u.S.A.
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: MacNaughton360]
      #113715 - 06/09/08 03:01 AM

When I was shouldering it a few weeks ago, I was thinking the same thing a Righty would seriously run the risk of embedding the hammer in his skull if he wasn't careful.

C

--------------------
The Bill of Rights- Void were prohibited by law
Stolzer & Son's Gunsmithing


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bigdog
.375 member


Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: CowboyCS]
      #113719 - 06/09/08 06:58 AM

I am looking for any info as far as loads for KING KONG. Not a lot of info out there for 2 bores, imagine that! I will just work my way up to what I can tolerate and see what the powder load is and what velocity I can reach. I have a lot of big bore stuff but I have not done a lot with black powder. Useful advice is always welcome. There will be a learning curve with this gun, but I have been shooting big guns for about 25 years.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad


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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 1875
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: bigdog]
      #113746 - 06/09/08 03:06 PM

Sir Samual Baker used 12 drams in his 2 bore. (about 325 grains)
I would start with about 100 grains and work up 25 grains at a time, until you get to what you can't handle, OR until you get to 325 like Sir Sam did.
At 325 grains, I believe you should be able to kill anything on dry land that doesn't go "clankity clank" when it moves, and have tracks under it.

Edited by szihn (06/09/08 03:09 PM)


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JohnTheGreek
.300 member


Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: szihn]
      #113769 - 06/09/08 08:32 PM

Wow, that is some serious inletting work there! Lots of QUALITY labor embodied in this piece! On a pedantic note, Baker's baby was not a two bore but a four bore firing 1/2 pound conicals which led to the confusion. He wrote of firing charges well beyond 16 drams. I hate to say this but I would worry about penetration on elephant with "only" 10-12 drams pushing a 3500 grain ball. Such charges were fine for 8 bores but were probably considered very light even for the four bores (as Baker's writings indicate)....much less something like this beast. A charge of 275 grains in my 16.5 pound 8 bore is VERY tolerable so, given the weight of this thing, I would start at 15 drams and work up to your tolerance.

Hope this helps.

John


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Glenn_Fewless
.300 member


Reged: 08/05/08
Posts: 103
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: JohnTheGreek]
      #113799 - 07/09/08 03:17 AM

szihn:

Most interesting. Kinda makes me glad I am right handed...

There is a lot of surface area there to polish, but I am thinking that the wide flats will make it a lot easier to strike and polish than a more conventional barrel. It all looks to be very good work is going to be a very handsome as well as unique piece.

And if you ever need an express rifle, just think of the velocity you could get with an 8 bore projectile in a sabot. It would make a great antelope rifle...

Glenn


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bigdog
.375 member


Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: Glenn_Fewless]
      #113809 - 07/09/08 07:18 AM

John,
Did you mean a 16.5 lb 8 bore??

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad


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JohnTheGreek
.300 member


Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: Glenn_Fewless]
      #113862 - 07/09/08 04:08 PM

Quote:

...just think of the velocity you could get with an 8 bore projectile in a sabot. It would make a great antelope rifle...





Now THAT is funny!

Big Dog,

Yes, that's what I meant...post has been edited.

John


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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 1875
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: JohnTheGreek]
      #116884 - 14/10/08 05:40 AM

Here's a "copy and paste" of Bigdog's last letter to me.
__________________________________________________________
Can you post these on nitro express forum? thanks Ken
_______________________________________________________________

So, in complyance to Ken's request...
Here ya go.........
(It's still not finished, but it's very close)






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NitroSteel
.275 member


Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 50
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: szihn]
      #118636 - 10/11/08 01:38 PM

I've got a 2 bore(ish) barrel that I'm having a breech plug made for this week - - as soon as I get all of the details worked out. I'm debating on what barrel length I should use. I have 42 inches now, but was thinking of cutting it somewhere in the neighborhood 36-38 inches. I've read others that were 26 inches and 36 inches. I sure don't want to cut it and wish it were longer....

What is a good length for this barrel?

The bore is actually 1.18 inches (closer to 3 bore I think), but it's as close as I can get to "Baby". I'm planning on starting out shooting balls (and not from the shoulder, at least not at first). I have a friend that makes choke tubes for shotguns that says he can make a mold for conical bullets fairly easily. Hopefully I can come up with a fairly accurate load that can be shoulder fired. Of course mine will be a muzzleloader...

Thank ya'll for your insight.

NitroSteel

--------------------
"Life is hard. It's even harder if you're stupid."

John Wayne



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Daryl_S
.600 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 22801
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: NitroSteel]
      #118669 - 11/11/08 04:45 AM

Nitrosteel- read your "Wayne" quote, then read your second last sentence. That is how I feel about a conical mould for your 'large' 4 bore. A round ball will provide all the speed you'll need, I am sure. Indeed, you will be hard pressed to shoot a 1,200fps load let alone a load with a conical that doesn't shoot like a garden hose projects water. A conical might get 700fps to 900fps maybe.
This rifle sounds like a good project. Probably not useable for much, but a good project, none the less. Steve has set the bar rather high. I'd prefer to see a nice wide steel English shotgun-style butt plate, though, with checkering. I don't think rubber is going to make much difference in felt recoil. These guns move by the foot when they go off, at least the 50 pound 4 bore did my bro made once. 400gr. of 2F would move it 12" on the bags whetehr your shoulder was against the butt or just your hand - you could not stop that movement.
I would not personally shoot a 20 pound or lighter 4 bore from the shoulder, well, probably not more than once.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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bigdog
.375 member


Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: Daryl_S]
      #118744 - 12/11/08 11:34 AM


Daryl S. I have 2 - 26 lb four bores. I shoot them and get a 2000 grain bullet out at 1480 ft/sec, and recoil is quite manageable. I would think a 50 lb 4 bore would be way too heavy. I realize recoil has different affects on each of us. There is definate recoil, but it is not brutal, for me anyway. Ken

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad


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ChrisPer
.300 member


Reged: 12/05/08
Posts: 235
Loc: Australia
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: bigdog]
      #118758 - 12/11/08 09:20 PM

I want one. Load it for higher velocity with discarding sabot and a high sectional density solid. Possibly 2-bore would be better fun in a recoilless configuration with a second man up as loader - and the PH better watch for backblast!

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Daryl_S
.600 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 22801
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: ChrisPer]
      #118771 - 13/11/08 02:29 AM

Bigdog- the 50 pounder was a bench-gun, pure and simple, in the style of Billnghurst. The barrel blank we had already had the 1" hole, but the new owner didn't want the liner we were going to install, afterall. It was supposed to be a .50 cal. slug gun. Shot well for a smoothie though - we could hold a 3 foot group at 300 meters with it. Seemed to move about 1/2 yard of dirt on impact.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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bigdog
.375 member


Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: Daryl_S]
      #118804 - 13/11/08 05:58 PM

Sounds like a thumper. My 2 bore has been repaired and Steve is working out the details with Fed Ex. I hope to have it back in a week or 2 so I can do some load development before cold wet weather.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad


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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: 2 bore. Nope, it's not a joke. It's REAL ! [Re: bigdog]
      #118813 - 13/11/08 11:03 PM

Thats not a rifle!

Its an artillery piece ! LOL

Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


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