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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

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paradox
.224 member

Reged: 03/04/08
Posts: 37
Loc: The Netherlands

8-Bore
#104029 - 01/05/08 11:50 PM

Hello,

Does anyone know if the Holland paradox 8-bores shot brass or paper cases and where to get those?

Kind regards,

huub.

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gatsby
.375 member

Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA

Re: 8-Bore [Re: paradox]
#104033 - 02/05/08 12:09 AM

Well, they were a paper case (based on bullet diameter) .830 to .835 bullet diameter but you need to get your barrel and choke dimensions so that you are sure. I would have brass cases made for the gun.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar

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paradox
.224 member

Reged: 03/04/08
Posts: 37
Loc: The Netherlands

Re: 8-Bore [Re: gatsby]
#104048 - 02/05/08 02:59 AM

Thank you Gatsby,

I knew the twelves were paper cased, but I wasn't sure about the 8's.
Do you know anyone who could make them? If they are turned, I could easily make them myself, but I am not sure about the right material (It's not just brass, or is it?).
I am also not sure about the dimensions (how tight should the fit be?), but Holland probably could tell me if I asked them.
Are these your tools on the photograph?

regards,

Huub.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26580
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 8-Bore [Re: paradox]
#104067 - 02/05/08 08:49 AM

Hobby stores sell brass tubing in sizes that fits inside the one size smaller - up to 1 in diameter, I think. There will be a size that is very close if not perfect for the cases. You need to turn a rim with base, about 1/2" high, then low temp silver solder the body onto the bases.
: J.J. Donnely's big green book on Ctg. conversions tells and shows how to do this. They will be low pressure rounds, of course, which is what the 8 bore is anyway.
; I made some extensions once, to make .45 3-1/4" out of 2.1" .45/70's with perfect results by following his directions.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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gatsby
.375 member

Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA

Re: 8-Bore [Re: paradox]
#104072 - 02/05/08 10:25 AM

Rocky Mountain Cartridge can make the cases for you, just google the name. But Roland Hueber may have some in stock along with wads cards etc,may even have a mold. His # is 603 267-8227. He is located on the east coast of the US. The tools are mine. Tell us more about your 8?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar

Edited by gatsby (02/05/08 10:29 AM)

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paradox
.224 member

Reged: 03/04/08
Posts: 37
Loc: The Netherlands

Re: 8-Bore [Re: gatsby]
#104112 - 02/05/08 07:18 PM

Hi there,

Thank you all for the valuable information. Soldering brass tubing to turned bases! Of course!! It's so simple. Why didn't I think of that?
I hope to get my 8 this month. It is a double Holland hammergun with heavy damascus barrels. I will post pictures as soon as I've got it of course.

@ Gatsby: (Stupid question!)
I asked you about the tools, because I was wondering how the press works (I can buy a similar tool). Is it for seating the bullet? Does it grip the case mouth when pressing and how does it do that. I mean is the size of the shellwall important, or could I buy the same tool without trying first. Were these tools the same for either brass or paper cases??

Kind regards,

Huub.

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gatsby
.375 member

Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA

Re: 8-Bore [Re: paradox]
#104127 - 03/05/08 12:00 AM

Pdx,
The press is for sizing the bullet, the pliers for crimping the case. The bullet diameter is chosen to fit the bore and then the case mouths milled to accept the bullet.
Are you saying that you have found a Holland Paradox 8 with damacus barrels? That would be very very special! What further details can you give on this gun.
I think most cases for these guns are turned from bar stock.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar

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hubel458
.375 member

Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA

Re: 8-Bore [Re: gatsby]
#104669 - 10/05/08 11:50 AM

You could use the Remington 8ga plastic kiln gun cases,
like I used in my 8GA FH bolt action Enfield --
Check the 12 GA FH thread in big bore forum. Cost is only
35 bucks for 50 all primed. Ballistic Products.
They are double layered base cup for super pressures
and just turn base down a liitle. Hunters in UK do this and
this case is so much stronger than soldering tubing together.
The heat will weaken brass and copper. My top load is
1050 gr slug at 2000 fps and the base cup expands
only .001". ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8777
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: 8-Bore [Re: hubel458]
#104687 - 10/05/08 10:38 PM

make a chamber cast, reduce dimension's by 0,15mm and lathe turn it from solid brass stock.
this will give you the best for your money. Soldering brass tubing to turned bases is only for very low power loads with black powder. it may work some time with shotgun load's but I dare to say that you will have seperate cases and that's NO fun.
the top is 20x110 HS machine canon brass but hard to find today. its like 4 bore brass making from 20x110 US Navy.

plastik cases and blackpowder isn't a good combination. the plastik will not stand the BP heat

http://www.rockymountaincartridge.com/page7.html

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (10/05/08 10:40 PM)

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paradox
.224 member

Reged: 03/04/08
Posts: 37
Loc: The Netherlands

Re: 8-Bore [Re: lancaster]
#104750 - 11/05/08 11:09 PM

Dear guys,

Thanks for the information. I have contacted rocky mountain and they will turn cases to order from solid C360 bar. This is very good. I measure the chambersize and they will turn them to that size. I had previously found the remington cases, but I didn't dare to use them because they are plastic. I have been warned that they will melt if you use BP.

Regards

Huub

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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member

Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 285
Loc: Montana

Re: 8-Bore [Re: paradox]
#104846 - 12/05/08 12:29 PM

Paradox,
Precisionreloading.com has once fired Remington industrial hulls for $20US per 100 and $70 per 500. I have a few hundred and have only used them with smokeless to date, but have used several types of BP with plastic hulls in my 10 bore without any issues. Just a thought to tide you over until your RMC brass arrives. Dave Casey's stuff is top notch!

Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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rigbymauser
.400 member

Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1971
Loc: Denmark

Re: 8-Bore [Re: paradox]
#104878 - 12/05/08 04:28 PM

Quote:

Dear guys,

I had previously found the remington cases, but I didn't dare to use them because they are plastic. I have been warned that they will melt if you use BP.

Regards

Huub

Your Plastic hulls will not melt using BP. I have used plastic hulls in my 10 bore for a full 10 dram load. No sign of any meltdown for what so ever....actually they were very clean and smooth inside. I just recieved an e-mail from RMC here last week that my 10 bore 3.25" brass is ready to go

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26580
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 8-Bore [Re: rigbymauser]
#104908 - 13/05/08 01:20 AM

The softer plastic shot wads are what melts with black powder loads, not the cases themselves. A simple card wad between the plastic wad and powder will protect them.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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paradox
.224 member

Reged: 03/04/08
Posts: 37
Loc: The Netherlands

Re: 8-Bore [Re: DarylS]
#104928 - 13/05/08 05:46 AM

Thanks Bob,

I'll contact them for a bunch of these hulls.

@Rigbymauser,

Please let me know what the RMC shells are like when they arrive.

regards,

huub.

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hubel458
.375 member

Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA

Re: 8-Bore [Re: paradox]
#105366 - 17/05/08 10:51 AM

The plastic in the 8bore cases won't melt,as I've shot
hot loads, yielding 10,000 ft lbs in my 8GA FH
bolt action.Now the plastic wad cup, that is used with kiln
gun slugs melts a little, but a card protected it ok
for me. I shot 770 gr and 1050gr slugs.Ed.

--------------------
Ed Hubel

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