Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Hunting >> Hunting in the Americas

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: DarylS]
      #96286 - 08/02/08 01:21 PM

Yes, Daryl, it's nuts!

Can anyone help me post a short article on this subject published just yesterday in my local newspaper? I do not know how to post it, but I can email to a more knowledgeable fellow. I tried emailing NitroX but his "quota" is full!

Help!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: 9.3x57]
      #96290 - 08/02/08 01:34 PM

email it to my personal email address --I can take it from there..
Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ArnoldB
.300 member


Reged: 23/07/04
Posts: 139
Loc: Uk
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: Ripp]
      #97414 - 24/02/08 06:24 AM

This might be of interest to you guys there.
Quote:


Grey wolf 'no longer endangered'


Grey wolves in the Northern Rockies of the United States have been removed from the endangered species list, the US Department of the Interior has said.


The move follows efforts over the last 13 years to protect the animals and allow their population to grow.

There are now an estimated 1,500 grey wolves in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming.

They became a protected species in the US after they were nearly hunted to extinction. The removal of protection means they can be hunted again.

Environmental groups have said they will sue the federal government to keep the animal listed.

"The wolf population is doing great. The ESA [Endangered Species Act] worked. We've got a lot of wolves in a lot of places," Ed Bangs, wolf recovery co-ordinator for the US Fish and Wildlife Service, said before the announcement.

Last year, the population of grey wolves in the western Great Lakes area was removed from the endangered species list.




http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7257465.stm


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: ArnoldB]
      #97419 - 24/02/08 06:40 AM

Will comment in 31 Days...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: DarylS]
      #97423 - 24/02/08 07:06 AM

Quote:

Guides are allowed 3 each, btw. That's 3 in hand, runnoffs that are subsequently killed by the pack don't count against a licence. A bird-inhand and 2 in the bush still only counts as 1.



Guess the ideal wolf calibre is a 22LR then
only a joke


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #97426 - 24/02/08 07:14 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Guides are allowed 3 each, btw. That's 3 in hand, runnoffs that are subsequently killed by the pack don't count against a licence. A bird-inhand and 2 in the bush still only counts as 1.



Guess the ideal wolf calibre is a 22LR then
only a joke






Actually, you may be right.

If Hornady brought back the 220 grain .308 caliber RNFMJ, and a similar bullet in other calibers, such bullets might be used against wolves. Like the early military loads, such bullets penetrate deeply without causing much peripheral hydraulic effect unless impact is at near muzzle velocity.

Such bullets would pass cleanly thru a wolf's guts, allowing the animal the ability to cover lots of ground before peritonitis laid it down for good.

What a crying shame that would be.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: 9.3x57]
      #97568 - 25/02/08 04:11 AM

Per my post on another thread--just last week it was released publically that over 50,000 head of livestock have gone the way of predators in the past year in Montana..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2100
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: Ripp]
      #97831 - 28/02/08 10:02 AM

S.S.S.
You can even omit the 2nd S. if you use a bullet that will always go through, and you never even go look.............

The 3rd S is the really important one.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: szihn]
      #97851 - 28/02/08 01:09 PM

My instructions from the outfitter, was " shoot them all, doesn't matter where". This was just after they'd decimated the caribou population in Spatzizi Park and were moving down the main river to the populated areas of the Bulkely Valley. They were cleaning the goats, caribou and moose from that valley on their way.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bwananelson
.400 member


Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: DarylS]
      #98005 - 01/03/08 03:39 AM

we are pissed because they are doing what god intended,go back in history a short period i grew up trapping how many trappers do you know now,they were the ones who usually dealt with the predators.we watched them slip into history we as sportsman did not back them no it is not "nice "to use a leg trap.and outfitters they want 4-6000$ TO HUNT THE WOLF.if they are that big a problem donate hunts to conservation groups like sci,rmef ect and cover your cost and let them be hunted fairly,an operator that wants to wipe out a species ir just to shoot it to let it run off and die well i guess your love of the job is gone and should seek a job that will make you happier,will they kill cattle yes,are they compensated i think so.are they using blm lands yes,thats wild country,some argue that the cattle are taking what the deer and elk should be getting.our sport is in enough trouble, i always said a hunter is his own worst enemy.look what happened to mountain lion hunting in california,look whats happening to bear hunting,piece by piece we are loosing.look for an alternate way to deal with or express your problem

--------------------
THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dphariss
.300 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: DarylS]
      #98271 - 04/03/08 05:24 AM

I live in South Central Montana. The Wolves are everywhere, far out onto the prairies and far from the "Wilderness". I don't think the wolves have ate 50000 head of livestock but combined with the coyote this might be close.
They have decimated the the elk in Yellowstone (Park Service tells us its the bears). Massive reduction in the north herd. They have drastically changed elk hunting outside the park by disturbing the habits of game animals.
Wolves in the environment make it impossible to manage wildlife. It is estimated that they kill 10000 moose in AK every year that they do not even bite or eat. The moose are chased from their chosen winter range and winter kill.
Since the wolves we now see road killed elk in the Yellowstone River Valley as far down as Columbus (that I have personally seen) something previously unknown to me since moving here in the mid-1970s
Wolfs kill stuff. They even kill animals they do not eat. I believe the bears in Yellowstone are doing better because they are eating wolf kills. The Gbears have spread out too and places I used to hunt that were pretty much Gbear free now have this pest. Some of which are "problem" bears. People who live in places where they have such things know what this means. It means it should be shot on sight. But now they are radio collared so its risky unless they actively try to eat you.

The fun part is for years the experts told us that wolves did not eat people. All "anecdotal" historical evidence to the contrary not withstanding. But then they killed and ate a man in Canada a year or so ago. OOPS. Maybe Daniel Boone, various settlers and a host of American Natives were right after all...

My wife and I used to help and elderly lady with her chores, goats, chickens and sheep. She live her entire live in the west and her father had been a "wolfer". When the introduction started I asked Geraldine what she thought of it. She looked and me and said "Wait till peoples kids start disappearing". All she said. She was not known to ramble on much anyway. Born in a tent in Oklahoma circa 1900-1911.
I saw this as an anti-hunting move from the start, the setting up of the "Wilderness areas" was a similar move to force people out of their own national forest and it was worked pretty well.
There are a LOT of delusional types who feel that the wolf eating something alive is somehow better than my shooting something and having it die in seconds so I can eat it. They seem to think that I was dropped here from some other planet and should be prevented from "contaminating" wild areas by my presence.
Unfortunately the world is more delusional that sane, especially when it comes to personal freedom or self-sufficiency. Unlike our poster from the UK I never have to buy meat. My rifle furnishes more that I can eat and I give the excess to my kids or the food bank. Thus the wolf reintroduction impacts more than the livestock grower. It destroys game management. It could eventually force me to buy beef. It will result in less hunting opportunities which I believe was at least part of reason they introduced the pests in the first place.
The more radical "sects" of the environmental movement want the Rocky Mountain Wilderness and Parks all "linked" for free travel of the furry woodland creatures. They was corridors from where I live to the Black Hills of South Dakota. Never mind the private land owner and peoples houses.
You think this is "conspiracy, black helicopter, wacko" ranting you have not been paying attention. The Nat Geo channel just ran a show (from its description) on the idea of tying all the Rocky Mountain Parks together from far north to south.
I get a little "put out" since I happen to live in a proposed "wildlife corridor".

This is all coming to the east as well. So watch for wolves in PA and VA. If you have the opportunity you better start fighting it now.

Dan


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: Dphariss]
      #98289 - 04/03/08 08:58 AM

Dphariss:

Thank you for posting. I could not agree with you more, and with every word to-boot.

Introducing wolves to Idaho, Montana and Wyoming is no different than would be the purposeful introduction of rats and stray dogs to New York City, London, San Francisco, LA, Frankfurt, Copenhagen or any other city. I suspect rats and stray dogs could fend for themselves like wolves out here and if somebody's critter or kid gets in the way a bit of "compensation" could be tossed their direction for their trouble.

Like you, we eat meat every day and raise or shoot every bit of it except for special bits for holidays. It is part of our culture and many people live this very way and we take offense at the notion that wolves are somehow "good" for Idaho.

I just spoke to an Idaho Fish and Game Law Enforcement Officer last week. He made the point that SCIENCE was the only thing the Feds looked at when they introduced these vermin, as in "can it be done?"

He said they never took into consideration SOCIETY and the people who after introduction would then have to deal with them. Most Id F&G officers hate the introduction of wolves for all the trouble it has brought and the threat it represents to their jobs and security of future hunting opportunity and culture in this state.

Yes, Dphariss, it is a thinly veiled attempt to destroy hunting and the culture of hunting that exists here. It is promoted by those who have been deluded into thinking that wolves are in some way better than a dose of small pox or rinderpest or West Nile Virus spread to the barnyard or a pack of rats dumped in the attic or a pack of stray dogs dumped in the street.

Save the Wolves!

Save the Rats!

There's not one bit of difference between the two.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bwananelson
.400 member


Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98307 - 04/03/08 03:48 PM

OVERKILL NO, BUT RENEWABLE RESOURSE YES,IM SURE OUR GATORS HERE HAVE KILLED THIER FAIR SHARE OF HUMANS AND STOCK BUT WE DONT KILL THEM ALL,BUT SOME,I BELIEVE NOT ENOUGH,THE COUNTY I LIVE IN HAS THE DISTINCTION OF SHARK BITE CAPITAL OF THE US MAYBE THE WORLD.YET WE DONT NET OUR BEACHES.MAYBE IN MY LIFE TIME I WILL AGAIN SEE A GRIZZLY HUNT IN MONTANA OR A WESTERN WOLF HUNT.HELL THE COYOTE HAS SPREAD ALL OVER THE US AND NOW THE WILD BOAR IS DOING THE SAME.LOOK AT THE BRIGHT SIDE JUST GIVES US MORE CHOICES TO HUNT.I DO NOT HUNT TO WIPE OUT A SPECIES.ALL OF US FILL A SPOT IN THE CIRCLE OF LIFE .BEES KILL MORE PEOPLE THAN WOLVES DO.DEER CAUSE MORE MONEY DAMAGE THAN WOLVES DO.DO WE WIPE THEM OFF THE PLANET TO.IF WE LOST ANYONE OF THESES CREATURES IT WILL IMPACT SOME HOW.WE AS HUMANS ARE DUE FOR A HERD THINNING,LIKE THE BLACK PLAGUE,POLIO,THE FLU PANDEMIC IN THE 20'S,THE AVAIN FLU THEY FEAR SO MUCH NOW.WHEN ANY SPECIES GETS TO BIG FOR ITS ENVIORMENT SOMETHING WILL AND OFTEN DOES HAPPEN.30 YEARS AGO WAS ANYONE CONCERNED ABOUT AIDS.WE MAY BE THE ULTIMATE PREDATOR BUT THINGS AS SMALL AS A VIRUS WILL CULL US DOWN TO.I SAY PUT SOME WOLVES HERE IN THE EAST,DEER ARE AT THIER PEAK LETS SEE IF THEY CAN SURVIVE HERE,WE HAVE MOVED THE ELK PAST THE BIG MUDDIE,MIGHT BE FUN.THE FLORIDA WOLF WONDER IF IT WILL EAT TOURISTS........

--------------------
THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: bwananelson]
      #98345 - 05/03/08 01:21 AM

Bwananelson, your response is instructive and sums up the not-so-rare feelings of some sportsmen. There are those who see hunting as a game, as a sport, from the perspective of an outsider who thinks it is neat to see and take strange animals, or pretty animals or...oooooh...DANGEROUS animals.

An ancient line of division exists between the culture of local hunting for meat as described by Dphariss and I and tourist hunting by outsiders who come in to see the sights and bring back something to hang on their wall. There is a bit of blending of the two as well, in that some local hunters do indeed hunt for trophies as well as meat.

Ultimately it is indeed a choice of models, a choice of paradigms. What are the paradigms were are faced with and which do we want?

The model that replaces humans with wolves? Sorry, but we cannot have both unless wolf numbers are rigourously controlled. The Idaho Fish and Game Department fears declining hunter numbers and for good reason. There is not, in the West, "enough to go around".

Many so-called environmentalists fall in your camp, the camp that espouses the notion of the "circle of life", an ephemoral concept at best that means whatever the speaker wants it to mean. Usually in this context it means the establishment of laws or rules that limit hunting in the name of taking away the predator position from people and giving it to some animal like the wolf.

You don't live here so it is difficult for you to get a feel for what it is like to have such oppressive laws dumped on top of you.

How's this for a compromise??

I admit that the Federal government {theoretically...} represents all US citizens and the vast Federal grounds are open to use by all Americans, regardless of where those lands exist. Since this is in fact true, my feeling is that if the Federal government is so in love with wolves, and if Back East {and other non-local} interests are so enamored with them, then at the very least allow a compromise that limits their protection to Federal ground, i.e. the ground that all Americans possess an interest in.

Thus, any wolf that steps off Federal ground could be legally shot, poisoned, dynamited, trapped or otherwise culled at the discretion of the property owner. THAT might be a just and culturally sensitive method of managing introduced species. Right now the rights of property owners are ignored and violated at every step of this discussion.

But I doubt such a common sense compromise will ever exist.

This issue isn't about wolves, it is about the destruction of traditions and philosophies of game management as very successfully implemented by our state Fish and Game Departments. They have been wildly successful in growing elk and deer herds in the West and deer in the East. It is, ultimately, about the destruction of hunting and the rights of property owners just as Dphariss says.

I am well aware of the mass explosion of deer numbers in the South and East. I grew up in New Jersey {where deer bag limits are higher than in Idaho}, in Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky and Florida as well as here in Idaho, and in Washington state. I have hunted in these states and in Alabama and have family throughout the South.

What you need to limit the numbers of deer is not wolves, but a positive, growing culture of hunting in your states, a culture that adapts itself to the wonderful deer resource, adopts techniques and methods of hunting applicable to the local settings and results in the provision of food which itself is a tremendously important symbol and culturally relevant bond between hunters and the ground and the animals they both support. Such ties promote future trans-generational development of the hunting culture. Your states need a growing, educated, committed hunter class, not wolves.

What you promote with this nonsensical dumping of the rat-wolf in the West is the destruction of the hunting culture and is an oppression that needs to be stopped. You may not see it where you are, but where the resources are much more limited, the picture is quite clear indeed.

Edited by 9ThreeXFifty7 (05/03/08 01:31 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bwananelson
.400 member


Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98356 - 05/03/08 02:26 AM

we have 1.5 million alligators in this state and dole out a total of about 4000 permits[1 permit=2 alligators]we as hunters almost exterminated the alligator not long ago,same with the elk,bison,antelope,turkey.if we go unchecked we tend to over do it.you speak of the destruction of hunting,here in florida you are almost out of luck unless you join a leased club,from1000 to 10,000 a year.you have a multitude of blm and national forest.you live in a dream destination for what most americans consider a once in a life time hunt,i have hunted wyoming numerous times for elk those days are gone the nearly 1000 special tag,4-6000 guide fee,shipping of meat,i have two sons one was able to join me on an elk hunt the other one is of age but we are priced out,,,he will never see the windriver range,smell the sage.because like it or not we out of staters fund your game dept.what is the cost of your elk tag compared to an out of stater,and most of the land is classed as federal not state.that means we all pitch in.lets just vote out the game departments and go back to the way we were.why should anyone tell me when and where i can hunt no matter whose land its on it does not belong to the land owner.no more draws no more seasons if i need or want meat i should be able to get some also that means i can gen on a plane fly to a western state of my choice find what i want and take it.oh trust me it is here also,if you are not rich you wont hunt,seems like its true history repeats itself only royalty was privilaged to hunt.thats what i see where i am at.

--------------------
THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: bwananelson]
      #98358 - 05/03/08 03:08 AM

Quote:

we have 1.5 million alligators in this state

Excellent point. If you in Florida want to be overun by gators, all the power to you. You are complaining to the wrong fellow. We do not want the same thing happening here with wolves.

But the question is begged; do gator numbers promote hunting? Do gator numbers threaten other hunting opportunities? If they expand and promote hunting and do not threaten other hunting opportunities then I say you have a great resource. Use it and manage it. Such is NOT the case with wolves in Idaho.


you speak of the destruction of hunting,

I beg to disagree. As has been flatly agreed with by several wildlife managers I have spoken to here, I am speaking about the protection of hunting as a culture, not the restricted Royal Right you seem to favor or don't favor but are being deluded into promoting. The hunting culture I seek to protect is the culture that can be sustained and perpetuated generation after generation. Wolf introduction threatens that culture.

because like it or not we out of staters fund your game dept.what is the cost of your elk tag compared to an out of stater,and most of the land is classed as federal not state.

It is true to say that you out of staters provide substantial funds to our Game Department. And those funds are seriously threatened by wolf introduction. I have been speaking to several IF&G Dept officers recently about this very topic, and their very real concern is that they know that wolf numbers are devastating several elk herds right now, and reduced elk means reduced out of state hunters and thus, reduced revenue to the Department. Yes, out of state hunters do in fact contribute substantial funding to the Department, and that funding will drift away as elk hunting opportunity also diminishes, a diminishment everyone agrees will occur as a result of wolf introduction. Remember one thing, though I myself favor the irradication of wolves in Idaho, THAT will not occur under the current plan the state is trying to get passed in the face of resistance by freak environmental groups. It is possible that we can live with the Federal quota of 30 breeding pairs, but the IF&G knows they must manage to numbers in excess of that in order not to trip the ES Act and thus relisting of wolves. Instead of merely letting IF&G manage the wolves, the political field is muddy, complicated and full of mischief from wolf lovers from sea to shining sea.

Also as regards the funding issue, the IF&G department knows that out of state wolf tags sold will never replace the value of the multiples of elk tags they threaten and will in fact reduce the purchase of. Funding IS an issue, and wolves will COST the Game Department dearly, and do nothing to replace the cost they incur.

Compensation funds for domestic stock losses are already severely limited. Remember, we already HAVE coyotes, cougar and bear. There is a state fund the IF&G manages. Wolves will contribute heavily to the syphoning of dollars from that fund while in no way replacing those funds with tags sold. Wolf introduction is bad from stem to stern. And it is just as preposterous for hunters to support the notion that wolves will bring in "photography tourists" who will inject dollars to the state. In the first place, wolves are difficult to find to see. Tourists and tour guides will figure that out after a time. Secondly, these tourists, if they do indeed show up, will not provide funds to the Game Department at all.

You speak of the absolute truth about land ownership in a general sense. That is precisely why my compromise above is not meant to be a rhetorical statement, but rather a workable and realistic approach.

I am full of the knowledge that my personal desire {irradication of wolves in Idaho} is not going to happen. At the philosophical level I want them gone. At the political level I am well aware that the sooner we get them out of the hands of the Feds and into the management hands of IF&G the better.


lets just vote out the game departments and go back to the way we were.

I'm beginning to think you may be merely a troll on this issue.

why should anyone tell me when and where i can hunt no matter whose land its on it does not belong to the land owner.

Why? Because the last time I checked, at least some property rights still existed in this country. I think you speak rhetorically or in jest here.




--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9ThreeXFifty7 (05/03/08 03:24 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bwananelson
.400 member


Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98387 - 05/03/08 09:29 AM

well you have valid points aswell as do i. and yes i know how it feels.in my state alone i have seen the loss of bear season due to politics not ecology.i have seen whole management areas lost to the florida panther,more alligators are killed by state employees than hunters and yes they do kill cattle dogs other pets and humans.the feds have a heavy hand here also.but i wont risk a felony to kill an animal.with csi as it is something will be left behind to implicate some one.but the chasing away of out of state hunters started before the wolf issue.some of the western states wanted to keep all out of staters out.the regular joe cant take his son on an elk hunt now.you are very educated if you are able to have ample land in the west and i dont believe you would risk a felony time in jail and loss of what you have for an animal.what ever the wolf did in your area i guess it will test your limits.here in florida you kill a gator illegally and get caught its a felony they are protected the same as the wolf its a year in prison and loss of firearms for life,to big a chance for me.you are a big asset to these forums and have alot to offer us youngsters
we are but one and cant change a thing what the feds do.they will do as they wish[what the money tells them to do],dont feel isolated they do us here the same so yes i know how you feel.i just wont risk what you are willing to risk.and yes i feel i have been chased out of the west also due to cost, went to canada and now to africa.you cant beat the feds,ruby ridge,waco,just to name a few they ring a bell.i will leave this alone to many right views to argue.we all have our wind mills to fight.

--------------------
THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: bwananelson]
      #98391 - 05/03/08 10:24 AM

Quote:

what ever the wolf did in your area i guess it will test your limits.here in florida you kill a gator illegally and get caught its a felony they are protected the same as the wolf its a year in prison and loss of firearms for life,to big a chance for me.




You bring up an excellent issue not addressed before.

I am not promoting the illegal shooting of wolves. I myself would not illegally shoot one for just the reasons you cite. The punishements for doing so are ridiculous in the extreme. Being convicted of shooting a wolf is a personal catastrophe as has been demonstrated a few times by those who have done so and gotten caught. It is not worth it.

The punishment does not match the crime {rather, the virtue...} in this situation.

Just a year ago or so the law was changed to allow the killing of wolves in defense of life and livestock, but a fellow better be bleeding from an artery if he wants to go that route.

On one hand, I wish our own state politicians had taken a stronger stance against the Federal government when the introductions started back in '96. On the other hand, Wyoming did take a firmer stance and it can be said to have lengthened the delisting process { and thus prevented hunting of wolves} since the "recovery" area includes Montana, Wyoming and Idaho. For some time, the wolf management plan of one state impacted all.

Making an attempt to be somewhat optimistic, I feel the only possible solution under current oppression is for the state to manage wolves. Their draft plan seeks to grant the wolf Big Game animal status just like Black Bear and Mountain Lion. IF&G admits it will take time and there will be mistakes along the way, but they are confident they can establish a plan to successfully manage wolves at Federally imposed quota limits. I hope so.

Wolf "recovery" is expensive and it costs hunting opportunity. But if the IF&G plan serves no purpose other than to get the Federal government off the backs of Idahoans, it will accomplish at least one good thing. I do believe the state draft plan just might preserve the most hunting opportunity possible in the face of a blatant attack against our culture that wolf introduction and recovery represents. Federal management as it is now is nothing short of a disaster. and yes, you out-of-state hunters will hurt for it all just like us. "Your" elk will feel the crunch and that will translate into less opportunity for you.

Oh, yes, there are many other troublesome elements to this whole sordid story, too, just one of them being the granting of authority to Indian Tribes to manage wolves. This promises to open another whole can of worms. As I have stated a million times, the whole program is an unmitigated disaster.

I do appreciate the back-and-forth. The issue is very complicated and very troublesome, but I do understand that many people and some hunters support wolf introduction.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98400 - 05/03/08 12:00 PM

A friend told me they opened or opened restricted hunting on them in Montana due to there not being way over 81 breeding adults - or whatever the minimum is for endangered species.
: This is looking good for an open season coming soon in Idaho as well.
: Is feeding them grease balls allowed?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Shackleton
.300 member


Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 203
Loc: Iowa
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: DarylS]
      #98503 - 06/03/08 01:04 PM

Speaking of illegally killing wolves(I'm not condoning it either) has anyone else heard a story of someone who was believed to be poisoning wolves in a reintroduction program, and caught when DNA matched the poisoned deer meat in the dead wolves' stomachs to the deer meat in his freezer? Someone told me it was in northern Minnesota but I was curious if it actually happened or if it's something like "gun show gossip"-anyone know?

--------------------
"I do not kill with my gun, he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart."--Stephen King


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AspenHill
Sponsor


Reged: 08/01/03
Posts: 1528
Loc: Vermont, USA
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: Shackleton]
      #98533 - 06/03/08 09:46 PM

I heard about that one.

--------------------
~Ann

Everyday spent outdoors is the best day of my life.

Aspen Hill Adventures


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: AspenHill]
      #98541 - 07/03/08 01:06 AM

I think I've heard them all?

I do know that IF&G uses DNA matching to link poached deer carcasses {whatever is found after being reported to the Dept} with meat in freezers so the story may not be all that far off the mark.

DNA matching is not necessarily needed for testing all meat involved in game law violations. I reckon most violators of the game laws get caught due to the piece of meat that is stuck in their mouth, the one they never swallow.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98551 - 07/03/08 02:08 AM

Hadn't thought of using meat from my freezer for grease balls.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98643 - 08/03/08 01:04 AM

Quote:

I think I've heard them all?

I do know that IF&G uses DNA matching to link poached deer carcasses {whatever is found after being reported to the Dept} with meat in freezers so the story may not be all that far off the mark.

DNA matching is not necessarily needed for testing all meat involved in game law violations. I reckon most violators of the game laws get caught due to the piece of meat that is stuck in their mouth, the one they never swallow.





Heard the same thing here in Montana--someone had shot a bull elk in another limited draw area--Fish and Game checked it out and thought something was up --so allegedly they did DNA samples and determined it was shot in another area that the hunter did not have a tag for--so apparently they are very sophisticated in their investigation procedures..have heard of several other incidences as well in the past couple of years that were used to catch "criminals"...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho [Re: Ripp]
      #98646 - 08/03/08 01:58 AM

Some more information for those who are continuing to follow the developments:

Suits have been filed to stop the delisting process.

Per Todd Grimm, wildlife biologist for USDA Wildlife Services, his department killed 48 wolves in fiscal year 2007.

Of 133 depredations investigated by his department in 2007, 88 involved confirmed depredations, 19 were probable, 20 "possible or unknown" WOLF depredations.

Depredations involved 425 sheep, 75 cattle, 20 dogs.

Number of depredations increased 27% since 2006.

The Agency spent $387,000 on investigations and for managing wolves.

At least 36 of the 83 wolf packs in idaho were involved in livestock depredations.

Per USDA-APHIS Idaho Wildlife Services Wolf Activity Report, delisting wolves will probably not increase the number of wolves killed in Idaho.

Per Todd Grimm, USDA; "Wolf activist groups think there will be a slaughter, with dead wolves everywhere. That won't happen".

Of the 125 wolves killed by his agency in the last 5 years, only 20 were killed by shooting using conventional hunting methods. Per the above report, "Hunting from the gorund is not the most effective way to take wolves. After the public is allowed to begin hunting wolves, it would seem likely that wolves will become even more difficult to hunt as they become wary of humans."

Based on current trends, the agency "will almost certainly need to remove more wolves than ever before" if a court order stops the delisting process.

This from an article by Ralph Bartholdt in St Maries Gazette Record, March 5, 2008.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 7 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:   

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 6780

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved