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mbogo3
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9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure
      #291122 - 30/11/16 12:58 PM



A medium sized WT buck I shot at 75 yards on the run ,chasing a hot doe .The 286gr Hornady blew up like confetti not a bullet for DG...had the same bullet fail on moose a couple years previous and thought it would be ok for deer...Harold


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szihn
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #291131 - 30/11/16 03:42 PM

NOT good news!

That looks as bad as the Speer 270 grain bullets I used on 10 deer and antelope here in Wyoming. They are just big varmint bullets! 270 grains out the muzzle and 45 grains when it stopped. Penetration was LESS than 5 inches!



In my opinion, no animal below 450 pounds should be able to stop a bullet from a 9.3X62 or a 9.3X74R. If the bullet is stopped in them its only because the bullet is coming apart.
VERY poor performance for a bullet for a bullet Hornady shows as bullet for very large game.
I would write and complain.

I did so with Speer, and they said they didn't really care.
Lets see if Hornady is any more concerned

Edited by szihn (30/11/16 03:48 PM)


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Ripp
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: szihn]
      #291137 - 30/11/16 06:39 PM

Nice little buck, congrats..as to bullet performance, NOT good...

Get Swifts...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Ripp]
      #291149 - 30/11/16 09:58 PM

I find that sort of bullet performance from a cup and core bullet to be reasonably common. I have used S&B RNSN 286 grain bullets in factory ammo for practice in the past and found the same result on blocks of wood, complete separation of the cup and core. They are very accurate, well priced and the brass is good but you wouldn't hunt with them. IMO.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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Rino
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #291153 - 30/11/16 10:28 PM

It looks like the buck died. Good.

--------------------
Alf Rino Hals


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szihn
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Rino]
      #291158 - 01/12/16 12:05 AM

For hunting I am going to nothing but Partitions, solid expanding and bonded core bullet from now on for my 9.3X74R.
I will still shoot dirt clots and rabbits with the Speer 270 gr and the Hornady 286 gr, but for hunting anything bigger then 50 pounds I am not going to use them anymore.

Won't use Swift A-frames because I can't see the value in them at the price they ask. They are excellent, but no better on American game than a solid expanding bullet like a Branes X, and will kill game no better than the Nosler partitions. (They couldn't. All my game shot with Nosler Partitions so far has fallen within a body length) The Noslers I have used in the past in 338, 358 and 375 have all been perfect. In fact I can say the same of the ones I have used in .257" 264" .277" and .308" too. I bet the .366 will be just as good. Very fast kills with full penetration and large wounds.
I can't see how more retained weight is going to help me if I am already getting 100% penetration on everything up to 1500 pounds. So spending the price on Swift A-frames is just foolish for my uses.

I doubt anyone made a better bullet then Swift, but I can't be convinced that they are better than Nosler or Barnes, both of which cost about 60% of what Swift is asking.

Edited by szihn (01/12/16 12:06 AM)


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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Rino]
      #291159 - 01/12/16 12:06 AM

He was hot on a doe when he got his ticket punched......hit him a little far back but a bang flop none the less.I spent an hour on the phone with a Hornady ballistics tech and he said they keep all lots of previously made bullets JIC . He said he would duplicate my load and do some testing,then get back to me. I am using 58gr /RE#15/286gr bullet /Lapau brass /Fed mag primer.I have pulled all the Hornady bullets and swapped them with same weight Partitions.........that should cure that but hunting is over here in Alberta anyways.We have filled all our tags a week ago so now just cutting up the last two deer.The Hornady 286gr did the same thing on moose shoulder blade at 180 yards a couple years previously.I thought they would at least hold together on a soft boned deer but ,I guess not.A guy wouldn't want to walk in on a black bear bait and be greeted by a sow grizzly with cubs with this bullet now would you? Harold

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Rell
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: szihn]
      #291160 - 01/12/16 12:10 AM

I had real problems with Hornady DGX and DGS factory ammo in 450-400 3 for my double. Poor accuracy and the velocity was anywhere between 2025 and 2150 fps. One of the DGX I recovered was 195 gr (400gr) and I had a DGS recovered from the far shoulder, not sure that should have happened.

As much as I respect what Hornady is doing, bringing back semi dead cartridges and so forth, I don't use there components anymore.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Rell]
      #291163 - 01/12/16 12:23 AM

The old dull red box Hornady bullets with the metal corner re-enforcements were great bullets and I scoop them at gunshows whenever possible.I don't know where they cut corners in their bullet making but something has changed IMO and not for the better.......Harold

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Rino
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #291171 - 01/12/16 02:47 AM

I'm not sure if you can buy Lapua bullets in America, but if you do, the Lapua Mega is a very good and accurate bullet. And it preform fantastic to be a non bonded bullet. It might be worth a try.

I have used it in 9,3x74R for moose and most in norway and big antelope in Africa.
But use the 285 grain bullet!

--------------------
Alf Rino Hals

Edited by Rino (01/12/16 02:48 AM)


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Ripp
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #291173 - 01/12/16 03:00 AM

Quote:

The old dull red box Hornady bullets with the metal corner re-enforcements were great bullets and I scoop them at gunshows whenever possible.I don't know where they cut corners in their bullet making but something has changed IMO and not for the better.......Harold




Agree...

IMHO, simple economics..if they are doing something and claim it is as good as the competition but is selling at half the price, something is compromised somewhere..

As we all know, nothing in life is free...well, there was the Nelson sisters when I was in college, but that's an entirely different story..

I have never used Hornady bullets on anything..but have friends who have, will keep using my Swifts..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Ripp]
      #291221 - 01/12/16 02:44 PM

Some guys are also swaging down .375 bullets for use in the 9.3 using a cut down .222 Rem FL sizer die to make .367 bullets. A pin is machined to fit a shellholder to push the lubed bullet through the die nose first.In particular the 235gr Speer/.375 and from what I've read accuracy is VG and they don't come apart.

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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #291548 - 07/12/16 07:05 AM

I have sent bullet samples to Hornady for testing providing Homeland Security doesn't confiscate them to thwart my plans of world domination.My bad bullets were made in 2006 and all they had in inventory was 2010 vintage that of course worked flawlessly. OD .740/217gr /76% retention weight......and .690/230gr/80% retention weight........offered to replace bullets.Harold

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tophet1
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #291549 - 07/12/16 08:07 AM

In which part of the deers death did the projectile fail ?

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Postman
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: tophet1]
      #291552 - 07/12/16 08:57 AM

Quote:

In which part of the deers death did the projectile fail ?




That is a question I ask myself every time I hear about hunting bullet "failure". Is a Barnes TSX bullet considered "failed" if it retrieved out of a dead moose that expired within 5 steps of being shot and the bullet upon retrieval was found to have lost one of it's petals? I would put forward the notion that a hunting bullet "fails" if the target animal is not killed quickly and humanely with a decent shot placement.

Words matter. Failure vs optimal performance vs unexpected performance vs poor performance? To me I see big game hunting bullets as operating on a performance scale that ranges from extremely hard monometal solids to highly frangible. A "failed" bullet is one that does not kill the quarry assuming proper shot placement.

My first whitetail deer was taken with a 7mm Remington Magnum using Federal Premium 150 grain factory ammunition. At that time, Federal was loading Sierra GameKings in that particular offering. The shot was maybe 75 yards, broadside on a deer that was maybe 200 pounds on the hoof. The shot entered just behind the right shoulder through the ribs, and blew the offside shoulder to bits. The bullet jacket was found under the hide on the off shoulder side and the separated lead core was a pass through. Did that bullet "fail"? Never in my life have I ever considered that bullet a failure. Soft? Yes, absolutely. Driven too fast for such a short range shot? Most likely. However that deer took one step and fell over stone dead.

I now know a lot more than I did when I started hunting back in the early 1980s. Bullets have also improved dramatically. Would I still use a GameKing? Yes, but only in the appropriate cartridge, at milder velocities, and only for selectively taken textbook broadside shots for appropriately sized game. I truly prefer to use the best modern premium bullets now commonly available. Barnes TSX, TTSX, Swift Aframes when I can get them, Woodleighs, and of course Nosler partitions and Accubonds. With these better, harder, and bonded premium bullets, one can take more liberties with shot angles and the like. After all, the textbook broadside shot is not always offered. With those fancy premium bullets, it gives today's hunters the ability to take less optimal angle shots and still drive deeply to get to the vitals, assuming of course the Hunter has chosen appropriate cartridges for the game at hand.

I think that one must know the design characteristics of the bullet one is using and apply it appropriately. This may mean passing up certain shots where distance and or difficult shot angles won't work well.

Another thought on the subject while I'm rambling on.... DG hunting changes the game from hunting deer and antelope and the like. The principles are the same but bullet selection becomes far more critical and bullets should be chosen from the harder end of the bullet scale. Too much can go pear shaped very quickly. It could be a life or death situation if one can't take poor angle shots. One must be prepared for taking a bad angle shot and have confidence that the bullet will penetrate deeply to find the vitals in spite of the bad angle.

Today's hunts cost a great deal more than even the most expensive bullets. Economics should NOT be a factor for choosing hunting bullets. Ask yourself how many hunting bullets one might use big game hunting during a year. Even a cheap local hunt costs a great deal more than the hunting bullet one unleashes. If the bullet cost $2 or $5 or even $20, I submit to you that it is far and away the cheapest part of the hunt and an irrelevant cost unless you like to use hunting bullets for frequent target practice. For me, a local deer hunt will see me spend $150 in gas alone going to and from the hunt camp. Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating for price increases on hunting bullets, but I'm suggesting to keep things in perspective. Coming from me the cheap hand loader that is almost more concerned about policing my spent brass than watching where my game fell.

Edited by Postman (07/12/16 09:37 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Postman]
      #291554 - 07/12/16 10:39 AM

I've used the 286 gr Woodleigh in my 9.3x74R on deer, pigs, donkeys, scrub cattle and water buffalo and it seems to do OK. Plus warthog in Africa.

Other than the Woodleigh's which have proven usually to work, I don't bother with the traditional bullets like Hornady, Sierra, Speer etc. OTHER than on paper, small-to-calibre animals, ferals etc. Shooting the average feral pig or goat with a .308 or .30-06 even relatively fragile bullets will work.

I used to use the original Nosler solid bases for ferals and partitions for deer, African game etc. The originals worked well, the ballistic tip designs were crap. Got enough Partitions for the .30's and some other calibres to last a lifetime.

Shooting a realitively small deer with a 9.3 if shot in the right place, even a relatively fragile bullet should still work. And if hit well in the lungs, a fragie bullet will kill quicker than a more solid bullet such as an A-frame, theoretically.

But haven't had much experience with A-frames as I usually have regarded them as a bullet for bigger bores, too tough for most lighter medium game and haven't needed to try them out to date. I will probably try the 200 and 220 gr A-frames in 8mm. For bigger bores so far I have stuck to Woodleighs, which are cheaper than A-frames here and work so why change.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Rule303
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Postman]
      #291565 - 07/12/16 11:23 AM

I use to use the Nosler Solid Base 130gr in my 270 when the new polymer tipped SB's came out I tried them. I would say in anybodies language I had a bullet failure. Hit a small multi coulored sow front on fair in the middle of the head about 70 to 80 mts maybe a bit more. She drooped like a rock. Turned the spotlight off walked over with the torch. Found some blood on the grass and nothing more. The following day we checked out what a murder of crows were on. One dead multi coloured sow with a massive flesh wound on the head. She was over 2 KM from where she was shot. Yes she died but not the way she should of. Shot a couple more pigs on that trip but only heart/lung shots. Not impressed and have never used them again.

Recently shot a 4 small to medium pigs with the Hornady 140grain BT Interlocks out of the 270. Did the job but I would not use them on large pigs for a shoulder shot. Wish Rem made the standard Core lokt in 140grn.


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DarylS
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Rule303]
      #291569 - 07/12/16 12:14 PM

a friend shot a couple small, 250 pound bears with .270cal. 140 CoreLokts, driven about 2,940fps at the muzzle. I loaded the ammo for him, so got the run-down on how well they worked.

The first shot was some 130yards broadside behind the leg - tight, no bone hit - dropped like a stone - dead right there DRT. The second bear, same field the next day was shot by my bro, about 125yards, standing facing him and the shot was in the middle of the forehead between the eyes. It was also "DRT".

The first bear had a hole in his side you could put you size 12 felt pack -80 temp boot inside the cavity just by stepping forward - the ribs and leg meat gone & mush. The entire front end was spoiled - both sides - no meat worth saving.

I would say from the wanting to put 4 quarters each of those young bears in the freezer, the bullet failed on the first, worked perfectly on the second.

Much depends on where you hit them with marginal bullets.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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DarylS
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: DarylS]
      #291570 - 07/12/16 12:19 PM

Harold - that is to bad about the Hornady - I was hoping they would work for moose and elk form my 9.3x62 and my bro's 9.3x57.

Thanks for this thread. I guess I'll see about getting some more Norma bullets from tradeexcanada.

He's still got enough yellow plastic tipped 286gr. Normas for a couple years.

I think there are a bunch of 293gr. TUGs left as well.

We'll keep those for his rifle. I'll just use the .375 or size down some of those for the 9.3's.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Wayne59
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: DarylS]
      #291573 - 07/12/16 12:34 PM

Has anybody tried the new Hornady ELD bullets on game.

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Ripp
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Wayne59]
      #291587 - 07/12/16 02:00 PM

Quote:

Has anybody tried the new Hornady ELD bullets on game.




I have not but have read several article written by those who have..I am a bit worried the are going to be on the soft side from what I read saying they retain 50-60%....was planning on trying them next season on pronghorn and mule deer with lower velocity calibers..3100fps or less..

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/12/21/tested-hornady-eld-x-bullet/

Was another story I read in GUNS AND AMMO hunting in Texas for Aoudad similar performance..

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Wayne59
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Ripp]
      #291610 - 08/12/16 12:21 AM

Thanks for the artical. Unfortunately it sounds like it was written by Hornady as a sales pitch and not by actual hunter shooters.

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Ripp
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Wayne59]
      #291612 - 08/12/16 01:01 AM

Agreed--the other ones were actually by hunters in magazines,,but I always take those with a grain of salt as well..they won't bite the hand that feeds them very often...

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Postman
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Rule303]
      #291613 - 08/12/16 01:21 AM

Quote:

I use to use the Nosler Solid Base 130gr in my 270 when the new polymer tipped SB's came out I tried them. I would say in anybodies language I had a bullet failure. Hit a small multi coulored sow front on fair in the middle of the head about 70 to 80 mts maybe a bit more. She drooped like a rock. Turned the spotlight off walked over with the torch. Found some blood on the grass and nothing more. The following day we checked out what a murder of crows were on. One dead multi coloured sow with a massive flesh wound on the head. She was over 2 KM from where she was shot. Yes she died but not the way she should of. Shot a couple more pigs on that trip but only heart/lung shots. Not impressed and have never used them again.

Recently shot a 4 small to medium pigs with the Hornady 140grain BT Interlocks out of the 270. Did the job but I would not use them on large pigs for a shoulder shot. Wish Rem made the standard Core lokt in 140grn.




Those Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets are very soft, maybe even softer than the Sierra GameKings. Soft bullets act like grenades on low resistance targets such as textbook broadside rib/lung shots. I would put forth the notion that soft bullets on pig skull shots exceeds the design parameter of the bullet as borne out by the above testimonial. Two solutions exist as I see it:

1. Wait for the textbook broadside shot or,
2. Use premium bullets where a much broader range of shots can be taken.

I've never shot a pig in the forehead and do not have first hand experience with their skull construction. I do however know that a black bear's skull is exceedingly hard and angled perfectly such that a lot of bullets will ricochet from a head on "between the eyes" shot leaving the bear with a nasty headache and an ugly disposition. On the pig, it sounds like a solidly constructed premium bullet is absolutely called for, but on a bear, the frontal shot between the eyes is just not a good idea with any bullet. Drop one's aim a little lower on the bear right on the snout, and the game changes again, yet I would still opt for the more stoutly constructed premium bullet to aid in deep penetration.

Premium bullets are readily available and really do help wrt to a broader effective performance envelope. Yes, they do cost more than traditional cup and core bullets. I for one use premium bullets for hunting and use the cup and core types for amusing myself at the target range.

Edited by Postman (08/12/16 01:22 AM)


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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Wayne59]
      #291614 - 08/12/16 01:22 AM

Failure defined is failed to penetrate ,failed to hold together.........would have failed to keep me alive facing DG.........ie Failed...not meeting manufacturer's promises regarding bullet integrity or performance ..... Jack O'Conner's misused quote is ambiguous at best. I've killed deer and elk crippled by automobiles with a 1" pen knife........define death...they ended up dead but it took a while to get there....practical yes it killed them but I wouldn't leave my gun at home and hunt with a jack knife. Death is easy.....efficiency is an entirely different matter when your life may depend on how your bullet holds up.......Harold

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Postman
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #291615 - 08/12/16 01:28 AM

Quote:

Failed...not meeting manufacturer's promises regarding bullet integrity or performance .....




That to me is the most correct definition. A bullet is designed with a particular performance criteria in mind. Did the bullet live up to its design criteria? Misapplication or misaligned expectations is a different discussion altogether. To be utterly clear, I do not know if one could or should shoot a pig in the forehead with a soft bullet. If yes, then bullet failure.

BTW: killing deer and elk with an automobile bumper is the most expensive bullet of all!!!!!!

Edited by Postman (08/12/16 01:50 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Postman]
      #291620 - 08/12/16 02:07 AM

Quote:


Those Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets are very soft, maybe even softer than the Sierra GameKings.

...

Premium bullets are readily available and really do help wrt to a broader effective performance envelope. Yes, they do cost more than traditional cup and core bullets. I for one use premium bullets for hunting and use the cup and core types for amusing myself at the target range.




Nosler were 'tards for ffffing up the original simple hollow pointed solid base bullet which worked well.

As for using "premium" bullets on everything, when one using 100 to 300 rounds on a feral hunting trip, not so common nowadays though unless it is a Northern donley or pig cull, using premium bullets on everything is both expensive and un-necessary. If shooting two cartridges on a trip and it is an expensive hunt, absolutely.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Postman
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failures [Re: NitroX]
      #291633 - 08/12/16 04:25 AM

That's good context which I'd not considered. We don't see much in the way of cull hunts locally here in Ontario. One gets 1 tag per big game animal type hunted per year here locally. So, 1 bear, 1 moose, 1 deer. Three bullets per year (ideally). More bullets for some. Still 3 animals. Party hunting means I may fill my buddies' tags if I get luckier than them which might increase my bullet expenditure. Missed shots also drive usage. Going to other jurisdictions means additional bag limits but the overall hunt costs go way up.

I could see use for a good cost effective cup and core with appropriate caliber and weight for cull hunts where hundreds of bullets might be unleashed.


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DarylS
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failures [Re: Postman]
      #291643 - 08/12/16 06:49 AM

The only cull hunts we have here in BC - are gopher shoots.

20gr. Vmaxes from 3,900fps to 4,500fps depending on the launch platform are the norm for us. Bullet disintegration is the goal as well as producing lots of chunks flying about.

Not so with the bigger game.

Some guys make a huge go at coyote shooting and wolves through the winter & now with no bag limits.

Guys are starting to see wolves in the fields, mid day - meaning overpopulated by a good margin. I might have to load up some 55gr. Nosler Varmgedons for the .243 & see if I can plink a few. Got some 58gr. Vmaxes that also shoot. Stretched-string trajectories to 400yards is nice with speeds at 4,000fps.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: NitroX]
      #291644 - 08/12/16 08:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:


Those Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets are very soft, maybe even softer than the Sierra GameKings.

...

Premium bullets are readily available and really do help wrt to a broader effective performance envelope. Yes, they do cost more than traditional cup and core bullets. I for one use premium bullets for hunting and use the cup and core types for amusing myself at the target range.




Nosler were 'tards for ffffing up the original simple hollow pointed solid base bullet which worked well.

As for using "premium" bullets on everything, when one using 100 to 300 rounds on a feral hunting trip, not so common nowadays though unless it is a Northern donley or pig cull, using premium bullets on everything is both expensive and un-necessary. If shooting two cartridges on a trip and it is an expensive hunt, absolutely.




Is there a possibility to get in on one of those cull hunts and if so, what type of animals would the hunter be culling?? Do outfitters offer these??

I got in on a brief cull during my second trip to Africa...was in S Africa ..amazing time...

Ripp

--------------------
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Rule303
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Postman]
      #291670 - 08/12/16 08:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I use to use the Nosler Solid Base 130gr in my 270 when the new polymer tipped SB's came out I tried them. I would say in anybodies language I had a bullet failure. Hit a small multi coulored sow front on fair in the middle of the head about 70 to 80 mts maybe a bit more. She drooped like a rock. Turned the spotlight off walked over with the torch. Found some blood on the grass and nothing more. The following day we checked out what a murder of crows were on. One dead multi coloured sow with a massive flesh wound on the head. She was over 2 KM from where she was shot. Yes she died but not the way she should of. Shot a couple more pigs on that trip but only heart/lung shots. Not impressed and have never used them again.

Recently shot a 4 small to medium pigs with the Hornady 140grain BT Interlocks out of the 270. Did the job but I would not use them on large pigs for a shoulder shot. Wish Rem made the standard Core lokt in 140grn.




Those Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets are very soft, maybe even softer than the Sierra GameKings. Soft bullets act like grenades on low resistance targets such as textbook broadside rib/lung shots. I would put forth the notion that soft bullets on pig skull shots exceeds the design parameter of the bullet as borne out by the above testimonial. Two solutions exist as I see it:

1. Wait for the textbook broadside shot or,
2. Use premium bullets where a much broader range of shots can be taken.

I've never shot a pig in the forehead and do not have first hand experience with their skull construction. I do however know that a black bear's skull is exceedingly hard and angled perfectly such that a lot of bullets will ricochet from a head on "between the eyes" shot leaving the bear with a nasty headache and an ugly disposition. On the pig, it sounds like a solidly constructed premium bullet is absolutely called for, but on a bear, the frontal shot between the eyes is just not a good idea with any bullet. Drop one's aim a little lower on the bear right on the snout, and the game changes again, yet I would still opt for the more stoutly constructed premium bullet to aid in deep penetration.

Premium bullets are readily available and really do help wrt to a broader effective performance envelope. Yes, they do cost more than traditional cup and core bullets. I for one use premium bullets for hunting and use the cup and core types for amusing myself at the target range.




Pigs skulls are not overly hard/thick and I would wager a Win Silvertip would of penetrated at least into the neck if not the middle somewhere, a Corelokt would of ended up further in. I have mangaed to track down one box of Rem 270, 140 grain Ultra CoreLokts. Will take some time before I get to test them but looking forward to it.


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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Rule303]
      #291752 - 10/12/16 02:31 PM

I was finishing off other peoples animals they had hit with vehicles in the city where shooting was not a safe option and of course discretely so no public shock factor on the 6 o'clock news.Some in uniform ......some not.Harold

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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #294474 - 30/01/17 10:17 AM

I received a reply from Hornady on the bullets in question I sent to their lab for testing.Quote.......We did shoot the bullets into wax blocks at 2320fps and had 226gr weight retention.Then we shot them at 2009fps [distance impact velocity calculation] with 233gr retention.Bullets mushroomed well at .760" and .565" The ring is positioned quite a bit rearward.It is set at .210" from the base of the bullet.This could be why the bullet peeled back so far for you and came apart. I sectioned the more recent Hornady 286gr bullet and found no sign of the ring anywhere? Thoughts.........Harold

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Postman
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #294480 - 30/01/17 12:19 PM

So now we know that Hornady bullets are ok if you're a wax hunter.

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DarylS
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Ripp]
      #294481 - 30/01/17 12:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Has anybody tried the new Hornady ELD bullets on game.




I have not but have read several article written by those who have..I am a bit worried the are going to be on the soft side from what I read saying they retain 50-60%....was planning on trying them next season on pronghorn and mule deer with lower velocity calibers..3100fps or less..

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/12/21/tested-hornady-eld-x-bullet/

Was another story I read in GUNS AND AMMO hunting in Texas for Aoudad similar performance..

Ripp




From the looks of those gelatin tests, I would NOT expect to shoot a moose or elk at 100yards in the ribs and expect anything but a splash wound with that bullet. They appear to me to be similar to the Berger hunting bullets - match bullets with a hunting moniker.

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Daryl


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gryphon
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: DarylS]
      #294485 - 30/01/17 02:55 PM

Q: D "He's still got enough yellow plastic tipped 286gr. Normas for a couple years."

Just re read this thread and saw your line above D.

I used those yellow tips factory bullets in my original 308 Norma mag (180gr) and boy they put the big deer down too. I wish I could still buy them.

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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: gryphon]
      #294486 - 30/01/17 03:17 PM

IIRC- 9.3x57, Rod, used sided down 270gr. Hornady SP's on BIG wild cattle with perfect results.

He also found that sized down 235gr. Speer .375's also penetrated better from his 9.3 than when shot from a .375 AS .375 bullets.

Sized down 225gr. Spire Points (also worked well for Rod) are already loaded for testing in my bro's 9.3x57. They will be running 2,550fps. We want to test them on plates to 300 meters as they have a 200 meter zero right now.

These have a 1/16" thick jacket - that's .0625" thick and is the same thickness of jacket on the new 350gr. .458 bullet from Speer, the one that needs to be driven faster than 1,900fps to expand.

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Daryl


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Ripp]
      #294495 - 30/01/17 06:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Those Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets are very soft, maybe even softer than the Sierra GameKings.

...

Premium bullets are readily available and really do help wrt to a broader effective performance envelope. Yes, they do cost more than traditional cup and core bullets. I for one use premium bullets for hunting and use the cup and core types for amusing myself at the target range.




Nosler were 'tards for ffffing up the original simple hollow pointed solid base bullet which worked well.

As for using "premium" bullets on everything, when one using 100 to 300 rounds on a feral hunting trip, not so common nowadays though unless it is a Northern donley or pig cull, using premium bullets on everything is both expensive and un-necessary. If shooting two cartridges on a trip and it is an expensive hunt, absolutely.




Is there a possibility to get in on one of those cull hunts and if so, what type of animals would the hunter be culling?? Do outfitters offer these??

I got in on a brief cull during my second trip to Africa...was in S Africa ..amazing time...

Ripp




Didn't see this till now.

What sort of animals?

I used to shoot a lot of feral goats. They are worth money now, by rounding up, and selling. One can see big stock crates on semi-trailers, truck trailer plus two trailers full of stinkers on the Stuart Highway at Port Augusta. Big horned billies included in the crate. Bigger horns than I have ever shot.

Feral pigs. Yes. Don't seem as numerous in NSW and Qld due to past droughts. No doubt will breed up if they haven't already. We weren't shooting for numbers, didn't pursue the herds, but shot I think 32 boar on one trip, three days. We did bump into a two herds which combined together at maybe 300 pigs. Then cahsing them in the Jep to get into position to shoot, got stuck a hundred metres out into the wetland swamps. Spent the rest of the day getting out again ... One of our members goes to the Kymberleys and used to, and may still do so, shoots as a group up to and above 600 pigs in a cull.

Donkeys. Are another big cull beast. Sometimes hard to put down. NT and Northern WA/Kymberleys have hundreds of thousands of donkeys. Or used to.

Hunt Australia used to do Feral Cull hunts. Rifles recommended were the .308 and similar where lots of ammo was easy to get. Matt Graham has passed on, end of last year, so I am not sure what has happened with Hunt Australia and if anyone else is taking it over. I did hunt one of Hunt Australia's ex-cull properties. Still some donks, not many pigs, bit of a fizzer. Probably why MG had stopped taking cull shooters there, and gave the property away to an "online unting club". Posted a thread on that hunt in the NT here somewhere in the past.

Horses. Sometimes there can be horse culls. Only shot a couple myself. They drop very easily. Didn't take any photos. They are beautiful animals and some people get upset. Thousands of brumbies in the Aussie bush. Be VERY careful not to shoot stock horses.

Camels. A bit of an expedition is needed for camels into the desert. And don't expect big numbers. Hundreds of thousands of feral camels in Australia. For "roadside poachers" beware, they are sometimes stock animals.

Cattle. There are wild cattle too. Scrub bulls. Not usually a mass cull proposition.

On a feral shoot, however if there are a few species around, pigs, donkeys, scrub bulls, maybe even some camels and horses, it adds to the variety. I find the big numbers culling gets boring and excessive very fast. Repetitive, but does add to one's shooting skills. I culled buffalo for two days. Shot ten the first day. Then decided to stop on buffalo that day. Shot six the next day. Was paying for each. Good practice though. Shot some pigs, they were not numerous, a scrub bull, and a couple horses.

If you can get onto kangaroo shoot culls, these are good practice. Landowners have tags or permits in some states where roos can be shot, but must be left on the property so most are left to rot. Overall in Australia, permits for 3.5 million roos are issued per year

Some outfitters may be able to help you find cull hunts. Or even some members.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: NitroX]
      #294568 - 01/02/17 04:37 AM


Same lot of 286 Hornady previously used on a 180 yard moose.Took a whole magazine to anchor it.Harold


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DarylS
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #294569 - 01/02/17 04:41 AM

Yikes!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #294570 - 01/02/17 04:45 AM


Bergers....................no thanx Harold


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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #294571 - 01/02/17 04:56 AM


This 180gr Hornady Interlock shot from a .308 Norma Magnum at 3000fps hit a mule deer frontal facing chest shot [instant kill] and key holed through the deer length ways with only a small potion of the nose expanding.Sometimes bullets do strange things........Harold


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DarylS
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #294576 - 01/02/17 06:07 AM

That is strange, Harold, for that bullet.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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mbogo3
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: DarylS]
      #294581 - 01/02/17 07:54 AM

I suspect it tumbled after clipping a rib or sternum.I put one through a decent WT buck at 30 yards ,in and out double lung broadside.He wandered 20 yards off into the bush and was standing all wobbly like a drunken sawhorse,as the rack was so so I put one offhand into his neck an inch below his ear.After cleaning and skinning him the 180gr .30 caliber bullet severed the spinal cord but never made it through the rutted neck muscle.But at least it held together.Harold

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Homer
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: mbogo3]
      #297789 - 25/03/17 08:41 PM

G'Day Fella's,

It is always interesting to see "Independent Images", of recovered bullets.
I think we have all been marketed to enough these days, that we now believe that any fired bullets we have been lucky enough to have recovered, will always look just like ALL the fired and recovered bullets from the manufacturers advertising . In other words, classic Mushroom shaped bullets.
I have a few of them in my collection but.......................

My best advice for you 9.3mm shooters among us, is to get yourself some www.woodleighbullets.com.au, from 250grn thru 320grn!

The thing that we all need to remember, and as mentioned above by others, if you were able to take an image of the dead Bambi etc, the Bullet (and hopefully not Bullets), did its job just fine (just not as we have been marketed and expecting it to).

Regards
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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gryphon
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Homer]
      #297793 - 25/03/17 10:47 PM

I have a tobacco tin full of mouldy old bullets,many mushrooms,many in pieces,all were recovered from dead deer.
I would rather weigh the deer and not the bullet after the day.

--------------------
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coll416
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: gryphon]
      #297821 - 26/03/17 11:43 AM

I prefer the 9.3mm 286 grain Woodleigh round nose for my hunting, I start this bullet at 2400fps. This bullet will stay inside bigger pigs shot front on and crash through the chest cavity of big scrub bulls & feral stallions shot side on, when used at ranges less than 50 metres. At longer ranges this bullet drills very deeply on everything! I have found the maligned 270 grain Speer bullet very fatal on hundreds of large ferals (donkeys & horses), this bullet penetrates readily at ranges beyond 100 metres when started at 2500fps, at closer ranges however the shooter needs to choose the shot carefully.

As the range increases bullet penetration improves due to velocity reduction. This phenomenon is consistent with all the bullets & calibres I have used! I have learned that all traditional lead core bullets will under perform (my expectations) if heavy bone is struck at close ranges, Woodleighs included! The shoulders & hips of four legged creatures should be avoided when hammering big game at close range, unless you use the mono-metal bullets. Standard lead core bullets have weaknesses at close ranges but come into their own once some velocity is lost. This contrasts with X bullets which are much better in close & but tend to pencil through once ranges increase. This is particularly true of calibres with slower starting velocities like the 9.3x62.

Many years ago my 30-30 150 grain Speer bullets were zipping through big brumby stallions side on when I shot them beyond about 200 metres, in close the performance was much more dramatic! Both were fatal! My journey had begun!!


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: gryphon]
      #297824 - 26/03/17 01:59 PM

Quote:


I would rather weigh the deer and not the bullet after the day.




Still, it is very good practice to evaluate the bullet and the damage caused or how long it took to find a deer that ran because the bullet was shit. I find it not only interesting but also very helpful. I always ask other hunters when they have just shot a deer what bullet and what weight, distance, circumstances etc. It is interesting to find how many times the same bullets are responsible for deer running off after being comprehensibly hit, such as the Remington Core-loc. Particularly the 180 grain in a 300 WM, the trophy hunters choice.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
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gryphon
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #297829 - 26/03/17 02:14 PM

I went on record a long time ago on NE here about two sambar deer I shot with corelocks,killed both but ...not happy! There have been 38 bullets left in the two boxes I bought around 6-7 years now. (7mm rm)

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Waidmannsheil
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: coll416]
      #297831 - 26/03/17 02:22 PM

Coll416, interesting what you say about both the Woodleigh and the Barnes bullets. I have found that Woodleigh's work perfectly even with heavy bone,at least on the deer, Sambar and Fallow in particular. I have always found that the bullets will smash through bone, damage internals badly with out much meat damage and leave a good exit wound, at least with the 338 WM in 250 grain. Any Barnes X-Bullets that I have seen especially at close range sail straight through and do very little damage of anything, leaving the animal very much alive and running around. Several blokes in our club have had a long and perfect record on Sambar with Woodleigh bullets, have switched to Barnes as a tryout and gone back to the Wooodleigh's because the Barnes bullets just pencil through with little organ damage and a long follow up.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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coll416
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #297840 - 26/03/17 04:14 PM

W,
I am totally a Woodleigh fan, my first choice in .270W, 338W, 9.3x62 & .416. This is based upon their terminal performance. These bullets kill humanely. The thunk noise of a Woodleigh striking is much more audible than some others! The kill because they expand rapidly but hold together to keep penetrating. The mushrooms are big & wide!

I choose long, sleek bullets for the rifle range, where group size counts. I can't shoot small groups in the bush particularly when I am stretched & shooting offhand. I choose hunting bullets for hunting!

I had a .416 410gn Woodleigh pill fail to penetrate enough on a quartering shot to kill a solid scrub bull quickly. The bull did not move more than five metres & required a second shot....I felt that my shot was the primary cause here, I thought my big .416 would knock him off his feet. On the same trip I shot a similar bull with a Woodleigh 410gn FMJ breaking both scapula, like my first bull he required another shot. Neither animals were going anywhere, one bullet expanded too much the other too little, bugger!

Were these bullet failures? No. Like you W I have recovered lots of bullets which has helped me understand there is no perfect!! There are a number of challenges when hunting, terminal performance just one variable. My shooting skill has much more potential to cause a failure!

I strongly agree with some of the comments above, don't follow the market people blindly, they help create unreal expectations. Sometimes the most expensive is not the best!

Do some real analysis, & expect the unexpected!


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gryphon
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: coll416]
      #297842 - 26/03/17 04:39 PM

I only took delivery of 2 boxes of Woodleigh .338 Weldcore`s yesterday. I like their wares and also use the hydros in a couple of Norma calibres.

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DarylS
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #297843 - 26/03/17 05:13 PM

Quote:

Coll416, interesting what you say about both the Woodleigh and the Barnes bullets. I have found that Woodleigh's work perfectly even with heavy bone,at least on the deer, Sambar and Fallow in particular. I have always found that the bullets will smash through bone, damage internals badly with out much meat damage and leave a good exit wound, at least with the 338 WM in 250 grain. Any Barnes X-Bullets that I have seen especially at close range sail straight through and do very little damage of anything, leaving the animal very much alive and running around. Several blokes in our club have had a long and perfect record on Sambar with Woodleigh bullets, have switched to Barnes as a tryout and gone back to the Wooodleigh's because the Barnes bullets just pencil through with little organ damage and a long follow up.

Waidmannsheil.




Now that is very interesting. I have a friend who will use nothing but Barnes TSX in 180gr. from his .300 Win. Mag. for moose. he doesn't hunt elk, but if he did, it would be with the 180gr. TSX.
I hope to try out the 165's or 168's, both TSX this fall on whitetails, Elk and maybe a moose- but much rather have a whitetail and/or an elk.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rule303
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #297891 - 27/03/17 09:00 AM

I have found that different calibres in Woodleigh perform differently. That is the 358 cal seem to be harder than what the recommended velocities allow. The 3 Sambar I have taken with my 35 Sambar were taken at ranges, 180mts, 70 mts and 20 mts. The 70 mts shot was heart lung the 180mts broke both shoulders. The 20 mts broke 3 ribs and off side shoulder and impact velocity was over 200fps above max recommended by Woodleigh. All bullets retained between 86% and 94% of original weight.

Yet other cals a hit this far above max recommended would have a bullet coming apart. Re the Core Locks. I have had some spectacular results and what I call failures. Good sized pigs at 150mts with complete pass through, others smaller pigs drop right there at these ranges. 2 Tahr ran 50 and 60 meters, thankfully not over a cliff. Both heart shot but the bullet penciled straight through, no sign of opening. Tahr were about 40mts and 60mts. Yet a Chamois hit in the heart - shot from below- dropped right there and a massive exit wound. Shot from about 100mts. All were 130 grain 270 cal Core loks. This stems back from the mid nineties till 2007. No problem with them before then and now I dont use them. Still do in the 358 round nose in my 356 and work well.


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DarylS
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Re: 9.3x62 Hornady bullet failure [Re: Rule303]
      #297892 - 27/03/17 09:31 AM

The .356 with 250gr. Hornady RN worked splendidly for deep penetration on our moose. My brother used it for years, guiding, having to kill about 3 to 4 wounded moose a year with it - always splendid work - whether broadside or from the hind leg forward on a rapidly departing moose - always to break the far leg and down.

46.0gr.H335 was my load developed for him, CCI250 primer, WW Super brass. I flattened the noses of the bullets to make them safe in the magazine. Also, the bullets were all heavily crimped with a Lee Factory Crimp die, necessary to hold them tightly, due to magazine restrictions for length. Full 1005 loading with very slight compression. 2,146fps MV.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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