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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder
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tinker
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: Wayne59]
      #332441 - 17/09/19 11:10 AM

I'm enjoying this.
Keep it going.



--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylSModerator
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: Wayne59]
      #332478 - 18/09/19 03:04 AM

I think my bro is using 30:1, maybe 40:1 in his Sharps with bore sized bullets AFTER patching.

This is his long range load. He is not using a cookie, but is wiping with a bore pig after every shot.

He is also loading 85gr. 1 1/2F Swiss in the .45/70 case with only .050" compression, thin wad and bullet is only in the case 1/8".

This TYPE of loading regime works in his 18" twist.
Do you know what the rate of twist is in your rifle, Wayne?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: DarylS]
      #332486 - 18/09/19 08:02 AM

Daryl The twist is one in twenty. This gun may have a barrel problem. Pedersoli is none for choke boring there barrels. This barrel is loose at the muzzle and gets tighter as you push the slug down the bore. I am going to check this out further tomorrow.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: Wayne59]
      #332493 - 18/09/19 09:59 AM

Yes - sounds as if they did it bas-ackwards, tapering and breeching the wrong end, - hopefully not the case, but if so, they should willingly with haste, replace it like pronto.

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Wayne59
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: DarylS]
      #332516 - 19/09/19 03:13 AM

Made it to the range today. Changing the lead tin content made a huge difference in bullet fit and accuracy. Cant figure why going from pure lead to 65/1 would make such a difference but it worked. This rifle seems to like small doses of 3f. As usual I started at the wrong end of the scale so the next trip to the range I will be starting with about 50grs. Looks like I am going to have a tool box full of tools for this gun before I am finished. Today was defiantly a step in the right direction. I made up some plug gages last night and tried them in the rifle. Even though they don't show anything wrong in the barrel it still feels like it is choked backwards. A little more shooting should tell the hole story.

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Wayne59
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: Wayne59]
      #332541 - 20/09/19 06:01 AM

I did not go to the range today instead I casted some more slugs and went shopping. I swear this pedersoli mold is getting better every time I use it. These are the best looking bullets I have ever cast. I found some felt to make 1/3" wads and some Bee wax. Now if I could just find some Mutton tallow.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: Wayne59]
      #332544 - 20/09/19 07:19 AM

You can also use Vaseline. Some guys use Olive Oil, but I've always had better accuracy with Vaseline.

I used my 60:40 BW:Vas mix on REAL grooved bullets in my .45 cal. longrifle.

I was able to fire 10 consecutive shots, shot after shot, no wiping and grouping under 1 1/2" at 50 yards, then go right back to shooting patched round balls without any wiping needed.

The BW:Vas worked just as well in my longrifle, as-did the same mix in my Rolling Block with .50 cal. 550gr. bullets.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: DarylS]
      #332549 - 20/09/19 10:42 AM

I am actually shooting for some authenticity but if it gets to expensive or goes rancid to quickly then I wont mess with it again.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: Wayne59]
      #332574 - 21/09/19 02:40 AM

If you can find well rendered deer or mutton tallow, it will not go rancid.
Beef and others will.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: DarylS]
      #332580 - 21/09/19 07:53 AM

That"s good to know. I ordered some Swiss 1.5 and 3f today. Its kind of disappointing when you can remember buying powder for $3.00 a pound all day long. With the hazmat fee it was $32.00 a pound. The hazmat fee ($20.00)the adult signature fee ($4.50) and finally the shipping fee ($9.95). That's more than a pound of powder.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: Wayne59]
      #332583 - 21/09/19 08:53 AM

I remember $0.75 for Curtis and Harvey's in about 1958.
We pay $50.00 for Swiss. Needless to say, I bought none. I expect to be shooting mostly my .36 flinter for a while. It uses only 35gr. 3f GOEX. The GOEX now costs us $30.00 and #32.00 for Old Enysford, so I picked up a few pounds of that one as well.

My Sharps likes 3F OE with 506gr. 457658DV Lyman "Schmitzer".

Just thinking, the Schmitzer bullet, if lubed, then sized down to bore size would be a good 'target' bullet for your new rifle.



--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: DarylS]
      #332587 - 21/09/19 10:51 AM

You would have to size that bullet .010. I tried that with some of the Hotch bullets out of one of my molds and they did not shoot worth a dam. You have to run them through about five dies to get to .447 without distorting them. I could not make them work.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: Wayne59]
      #332600 - 22/09/19 02:36 AM

Interesting. I have some fairly hard 310gr. .375's lubed with Rooster Red that I sized down for the 9.3x62. That worked just fine, as well
as some 250gr. from my RCBS mould lubed with Lyman Moly. Pure lead, or close to pure lead would likely distort badly. When I made this post,
I did not consider that aspect.
I used my bullet drawing die and that in itself might have been the reason mine didn't distort.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: DarylS]
      #332652 - 24/09/19 03:16 AM

Well I took another shot at it yesterday. I changed from a lube cookie to a lubed felt wad. Started with a low powder charge and worked my way up to 80gr 3f and the groups started to come together. Ran out of range time and powder before I could Finnish. I have powder coming in but it is Swiss instead of Goex so I will be starting again. At least I am getting lots of practice. This is by far the most finicky muzzle loader I have seen but I will get it if my shoulder dose not give out first.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: Wayne59]
      #332658 - 24/09/19 04:07 AM

A note about Swiss powder. Some guys have found that once the powder charge gets too large/high for a given projectile, they start to have hard dry fouling problems.

In my .50/90 Rolling Block, I used an OXYoke lubed wad under the bullet, with thin card between the wad and bullet. This allowed repeated shooting without wiping, same as with a lube cookie.

When testing hard kicking loads, I generally wear a PAST shoulder protector. It eliminates ALL recoil problems for me.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: DarylS]
      #332662 - 24/09/19 08:53 AM

I wear a past also. I had a 3/8" felt wad under the bullet and two card wads. fowling hasn't been a problem yet.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: Wayne59]
      #332685 - 25/09/19 03:06 AM

Birds of a feather! With minimal fouling only load changes.
Changing wads can also effect the grouping.
Was wondering, why 2 cards?

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: DarylS]
      #332864 - 01/10/19 11:34 AM

Sorry Daryl I did not see your last post. The two wads was just the way they use to do it. I will be doing more experimenting as soon as the weather breaks. It is to dam hot. My swiss powder came in and The last time I shot I was up to 90grs of 3f. group was starting to close up. Pedersoli's max load is 100grs. I am sure the gun will stand more. I have another new to me muzzle loader coming in this week that I am sure you would appreciate. It is an English sporting rifle in aprox. 69 cal. As near as I can figure it was made around 1865. The gun was manufactured in Birmingham and retailed out of London. Builders name was Robert Hughes. The gun seems to be in fair shape. I will know more when it shows up. Their are a couple of things in the photo that look like they could stand a little attention. The bore will be the deciding factor. If it is usable then it will be a steel. Time will tell.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: Wayne59]
      #332881 - 02/10/19 01:15 AM

The Swiss powder will likely help.
Did Pedersoli mention the need for platinum lined nipples?
Looking forward to seeing the new rifle!
Scotch Brite can do wonders for frosting and light pits that hold fouling.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: DarylS]
      #332883 - 02/10/19 03:04 AM

Pedersoli did not mention a platinum nipple but I installed one anyway. Sixty five dollars for a nipple, can you beleave it. I have Scotch Brite in green and gray. I am well prepared.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: Wayne59]
      #332889 - 02/10/19 07:52 AM

Those nipples are expensive, but $65.00 is less than the $85.00 I saw listed about 10 years ago.

When I had the .50 Bauska barrel on my rifle back in the 70's, I was shooting 400gr. RN grooved bullets from an old adjustable Lyman mould, now discontinued, unfortunately.
I made up a die out of a piece of the barrel and pushed the cast bullets through it after lubing them by hand. This engraved the rifling on them, about 1/2 deep, or about .004/5
thou. The rifling was .008" deep and 38" twist.

These shot into an inch to 1 1/2" at 100 yards at the Barnet range, in Burnaby, but I had to replace the stainless nipple every 25 or 30 shots or the groups would enlarge.

I was running double apertures and was shooting 3-position and prone competition at that time with my .308 Match rifle, both any sight, and metallics.

I am quite sure your rifle will do as well, once you get it dialed in.

I just remembered that one of the guys here in BC used to use the Pedersoli Volunteer rifle in .45, for the special weapons moose hunt just 4 hours North of here. He used the multi-grooved 480gr. .451" Lyman bullet and 85gr. 2F, I think.
I also recall he used SPG in the grooves.

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Wayne59
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: DarylS]
      #332890 - 02/10/19 09:15 AM

I am going to try the max load of 3f the next time I take it to the range.If that dose not show progress than I am going to start from scratch. It may be my patching. I was looking at my raps today and they seem to be over lapping about .030 on the second lap. I don't know if this will hurt anything. My new mold should be in in a couple of days. This time I ordered the correct size. Next week it is supposed to cool down drastically ( I hope ). It is frustrating to get out there and than have to quit before you are ready.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: Wayne59]
      #332920 - 03/10/19 02:51 AM

Yes - no overlap is allowed. A gap of a few to about .020" is OK, but overlap will hurt accuracy. It pushes the bullet off centre.
Too, the twist of the paper(angle) should be faster than the angle of the rifling, or slower. Paul Mathews felt the angle should be opposite of the rifling, whereas original Sharps ammo meant for very shallow rifling of .002" or so, had the patch angled in the same direction as the rifling to it would theoretically unwrap when it left the muzzle.
Paul wanted the patch cut into strips.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: DarylS]
      #332925 - 03/10/19 07:08 AM

My new conical mold showed up today so tomorrow morning you can guess what I will be doing. My English sporting rifle shipped yesterday and should be here Friday. Going to be a busy weekend. Now watch it rain next week.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: New Muzzle loader [Re: Wayne59]
      #332971 - 04/10/19 04:32 AM

Keep up posted, pls.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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