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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum

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alaskan
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Reged: 27/08/07
Posts: 22
Loc: alaska
Pre 64 vs. CZ550
      #96827 - 16/02/08 06:41 AM

I could use your help, I am thinking of getting a CZ 550 in a 300 H & H safari model, but a friend a mine has a Pre 64 in the same caliber that he would sell me. Which is the better action and overall gun.

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Pre 64 vs. CZ550 [Re: alaskan]
      #96828 - 16/02/08 07:07 AM



CZ550 by a long way. They may be a bit rough sometimes but they work.

Pre 64 - or at least the one's I've seen look like a piece of shit built into a stock that wasn't very good without the appropriate cross bolts.


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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Pre 64 vs. CZ550 [Re: alaskan]
      #96835 - 16/02/08 08:34 AM

I've never owned a CZ 550, but I do own a ZKK 602, plus assorted 21 H's and 21 F's. I also own about 40 pre-64 Model 70's, and for my money the Model 70 is the slickest factory bolt action ever made. I have taken over 90 head of African plains game with my Model 70 in .300 H&H and never had it fail me. If you feel the need for a stock bolt, by all means add one, but I never found that to be the case with a .300 H&H. The .375 and .458 are another matter, and I certainly have a pair of them in my .450 Watts Magnum Model 70 (which has also been to Africa and performed flawlessly).

I have a pair of Model 70 target rifles which collectively have about 6000 rounds of ammunition through them with superb accuracy out to 600 yards, and never a bobble in rapid fire which wasn't attributable to the operator.

The only superior feature of the CZ is the integral bases for a scope mount, but the safety, trigger and stock design of the pre-64 Model 70, plus the finish, particularly that of the ones made in the 50's and earlier, put it in a class by itself. It is the action which everyone else tries to copy, the Rifleman's Rifle.


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Charles
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Reged: 13/12/07
Posts: 55
Loc: Texas
Re: Pre 64 vs. CZ550 [Re: xausa]
      #96839 - 16/02/08 09:06 AM

My experience with the pre 64's have been very good. They are not fancy but the ones I have had were pretty slick.

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Anonymous
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Re: Pre 64 vs. CZ550 [Re: alaskan]
      #96842 - 16/02/08 09:37 AM

I disagree with 500 on this.

The pre 64' is an outstanding action in every respect, and is very collectable, which the CZ is not. I have seen custom guns built on this action in the $40,000.00 range. I have a bunch of John Bolliger bolt rifles, all built on a pre 64' actions with built up square bridges, I love them.

Go for the 64'


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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
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Re: Pre 64 vs. CZ550 [Re: ]
      #96843 - 16/02/08 09:49 AM



Sinner

I wasn't talking about "collectability" That is a different ball game entirely as you and I both know from being collectors.

All the one's I've seen haven't been that flash IMHO,
and te 375H&H's and some 300H&H's all seemed to have
cracked stocks.

Overated, that's all.


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Pre 64 vs. CZ550 [Re: 500Nitro]
      #96851 - 16/02/08 10:29 AM

Disagree with you as well 500Nitro on this one--

I own both and quite frankly the cz is the crudest POS I have ever used when first bought new..almost always have to take them to a gunsmith to clean them up otherwise all of mine have hung up ...have never experienced that with the Winchesters I have..

Also, while at SCI...saw lots of custom big bores..many with Dakota or Winchester actions --never saw any with the CZ action.. mmmm.....

While the CZ is a good action--IMHO it is not in the same league as the pre-64's were..initally at least...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Judson
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Reged: 21/09/05
Posts: 192
Loc: St. Albans Maine U.S.A.
Re: Pre 64 vs. CZ550 [Re: Ripp]
      #96855 - 16/02/08 11:32 AM


You know, the Mod.70 is really a more complicated copy of the origional opposing lug, cock on opening rifle of fame, the Model 98 Mauser, so is the CZ in many ways. I like the CZ very much tho it does have it's flaws. The CZ set trigger is great when adjusted but out of the box it is rather harsh to say the least. The Mod 70 has a following as do many Winchesters just like the 94 which is far inferior to the Marlin design. The 70 has a three piece mag assembly, not very rigid, cost effective but poor in design. The recoil lug is also too small for the harder kicking calibers which is why so many of the big caliber Mod. 70s have cracked stocks. The trigger is good, simple and stone reliable, however the safety is small and not that great for getting it off in a hurry when something wants to eat or stomp you. On the other hand he safety is very safe as it cams the cocking piece away from the sear instead of just blocking the trigger as the safety of the 700 Remington does. Do not get me wrong, I am not saying the Mod 70 is junk, it is not, but it is no where near perfection either, but what action does not have room for improvement?
I think the Mod 70 is vastly over ratted by some of it's fans but the Mauser is also.
The Mod. 70 was introduced in 1936 and lots of developments have come along since then. Many of these developments can be incorporated through after market companies into the 70, (or other guns like the Mauser). The biggest down side of the Mod 70 is rather poor gas control if one ever has a case head seperation. A hole on the left side of the action would help here but even then the gas control would not come close to the Mauser though the CZ does.
In reality choose what you like, neither are bad I think that in some ways the CZ blows away the Winchester but the CZ is not a classic. Would I build one of my customers a custom rifle on a Mod. 70? Damn right I would but so would I using a CZ action. I lean towards the CZ, but that is more personal then based on draw backs of one over the other. I also like building the "big" rifles and the 70 does not have the barrel shank diameter for this. One more point, before stripping a Mod. 70 to build a rifle look at the potential collector value of the rifle.
For example tearing apart a rifle worth $1500 when you could get a CZ 550 for $550 does not make much sence. If this is the case sell the 70 to one who loves them and have money for building your rifle, or find one which has little or no collector value.

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.


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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
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Re: Pre 64 vs. CZ550 [Re: Judson]
      #96861 - 16/02/08 02:13 PM



Ripp

Welcome to disagree, anytime, that's what makes this sight interesting.

I agree, some CZ's are crap / rough - but I'd still take a modern CZ over a Pre 64 any way of the week.


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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Re: Pre 64 vs. CZ550 [Re: 500Nitro]
      #96871 - 16/02/08 09:54 PM


I have tried a few of these CZs..always went back to my original B-mauser from 1913...much slicker action, much more dependable in the controlled feed. However..the CZs does require some work so get to achief the best mauser standard for sure...but it can be done. IF however I should choose, because I had a choice I`LL take the pre-64 at anytime. Not because of nostalgia, but because it is a better gun by a mile. I have a pre-64 from 46s and it is actually a slight better than some of my original mausers in action slickness. I would love to find and original supergrade in .300 H&H.
Regardless of what..there is a reason so many knowledged gunbuffs swear to the pre-winnie..and it cannot be nostalgia/patroistism all of it


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alaskan
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Reged: 27/08/07
Posts: 22
Loc: alaska
Re: Pre 64 vs. CZ550 [Re: rigbymauser]
      #103770 - 28/04/08 03:51 PM

Well, I ended up buying the pre-64 300 H&H. I would like to shoot 220 grain woodleigh bullets. Does anyone have any good handloads around 2700 feet per second?

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mlg
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Reged: 19/03/05
Posts: 85
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: Pre 64 vs. CZ550 [Re: 500Nitro]
      #103905 - 30/04/08 02:12 PM

Quote:



CZ550 by a long way. They may be a bit rough sometimes but they work.

Pre 64 - or at least the one's I've seen look like a piece of shit built into a stock that wasn't very good without the appropriate cross bolts.




I would take a Pre 64 any day of the week. Granted they may need cross bolts (CZs don't crack their stocks??) in the stock but the trigger & action on any pre 64 will beat the pants of a CZ which has a lousy trigger. And the pre 64s I have seen have been as smooth as silk in the action.

Not too many Gunsmiths I know like CZs!


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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Pre 64 vs. CZ550 [Re: mlg]
      #103916 - 30/04/08 08:45 PM

How do the latest FNH model 70 actions compare in the CZ/pre-64 stakes? I read a favourable write-up in rifleshooter, but then everything gets a favourable slant there...

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MarinePMI
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Reged: 21/04/08
Posts: 92
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
Re: Pre 64 vs. CZ550 [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #103931 - 30/04/08 11:07 PM

At over $900, they better be nice.

--------------------
MarinePMI


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5501
Loc: United States
Re: Pre 64 vs. CZ550 [Re: MarinePMI]
      #103935 - 01/05/08 12:00 AM

Quote:

At over $900, they better be nice.




Yer showing your age...!

Me, too.

A buddy of mine and I have begun the inevitable slip down the slope of bemoaning the good ole' days. You know, when 1911's went for $350 with a half case of old GI ammo thrown in to close the deal!!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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