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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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Jano
.224 member


Reged: 24/12/07
Posts: 6
Loc: Brazil
Mauser military conversions
      #92533 - 24/12/07 10:23 AM

Hi, friends:
I am a new member of this forum and I am searching for experienced advice. I have one Brazilian 1908 DWN 7 mm cal and one Brazilian 1908/34 CZ also in 7mm cal . I want to convert one to a .375 H&H and another to a big bore cal that can either be a .416 Rigby or a .458 Win Magnum, depending upon your advice. My doubts are:
1- Which of the two action would be better for each project?
2- Are Talley mounts and rings suitable for such calbers?

The choice of those calibers is that they will be mainly be used against feral water buffalos that I use to hunt here. I already use a Ruger M77 .375 H&H, but I need at least one more gun.

I think it is important to clearify that the work will be made by a very competent and wisdom gunsmith. In his opinion, both action can handle the .375 H&H and the .458 Win without problems,but this is not the case for the .416 Rigby. What do you think about that? Thank for the help.
Jano

Edited by Jano (24/12/07 05:35 PM)

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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Mauser military conversions [Re: Jano]
      #92543 - 24/12/07 12:55 PM

They have been converted to .416 Rigby ( overall length 3.750") but it seriously undercuts the lower locking lug and is not recommended. If you want a .416 the .416 Taylor (COL 3.340") will do nicely and you can get the same ballistics as the Rigby, it uses a necked .458WM case.
.375H+H is touchey ( COL 3.60") as well again because of case length but it has been done more often than .416 Rigby.
9.3 x 62 (COL 3.291) is not far from .375 in power terms and 9,3 x 64 (COL 3.370) equals or exceeds it and needs less done to the action. Both cartridges have enviable reputations for hunting efficency.

Both are good actions and there is not a lot to choose between them.

I personally would not put a scope on a .416, but I am not a fan of scopes anyway, I'd rather just get a bit closer.

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States
Re: Mauser military conversions [Re: Bramble]
      #92548 - 24/12/07 01:31 PM

Quote:

They have been converted to .416 Rigby ( overall length 3.750") but it seriously undercuts the lower locking lug and is not recommended. If you want a .416 the .416 Taylor (COL 3.340") will do nicely and you can get the same ballistics as the Rigby, it uses a necked .458WM case.
.375H+H is touchey ( COL 3.60") as well again because of case length but it has been done more often than .416 Rigby.
9.3 x 62 (COL 3.291) is not far from .375 in power terms and 9,3 x 64 (COL 3.370) equals or exceeds it and needs less done to the action. Both cartridges have enviable reputations for hunting efficency.

Both are good actions and there is not a lot to choose between them.

I personally would not put a scope on a .416, but I am not a fan of scopes anyway, I'd rather just get a bit closer.



Great overall assessment by Bramble.

I'd go 9.3x62 instead of the .375.

If I needed something bigger, I'd take the .416 Taylor. If you want a bit more bullet weight, the .458.

I KNOW lots of 98's have been converted to .375, etc. However, if memory serves me, those Brazilian Mausers you reference are intermiate action length, a we bit shorter than the k98k and others. Your gunsmith is on target in general.

Still...9,3x62, .416 T, .458 WM in that order...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Mauser military conversions [Re: 9.3x57]
      #92600 - 25/12/07 08:45 AM

9.3x57


I checked before I wrote the above. Those brazillians are standard length actions the Peruvian 1909's were intermediate also built by CZ.

Regards

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mstarling
.224 member


Reged: 07/01/04
Posts: 37
Loc: West Virginia, USA
Re: Mauser military conversions [Re: Bramble]
      #92677 - 26/12/07 02:31 PM

9,3x62 is a great chambering ... I have two. Love them.

If you want a rifle that will make the legal minimums for many countries in Africa you should consider the .375 Ruger, the .416 Taylor, the .416 AR, and the .458 AR for standard length Mauser actions. If the project can wait a little, the .416 Ruger may be defined and reamers available sometime in 2008. They will all work without requiring so much relief of the ramp that it weakens the action.

Getting magazines to feed will remain something best done by a good smith and may require new or heavily modified bottom metal. Being a cheap old retired guy with a few small tool like a mill, when I built the .458 AR (a shorten, necked up and improved .375 UltraMag case) I had to build a "windowed" magazine arrangement. Took a lot of time and gave me a "1 in the jug, 3 down" rifle. It was not easy though.

The .416s and .458s are significantly more rifle than are the .375s.

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beleg2
.375 member


Reged: 15/08/07
Posts: 591
Loc: Bahía Blanca - Argentina
Re: Mauser military conversions [Re: mstarling]
      #92692 - 26/12/07 10:39 PM

Hi,
Making a .375 H&H Mag lenght rifle on an intermediate action like the Aregentine 1909 is not a problem if you work on the rear of the magazine.
this is a problem with 98 actions but not on 1909s.
The magazine is lenghted to the back and the bolt stop move back.
I had a .375 H&H Mag. that works perfectly and a friend have a .416 Rigby also.
Hope this helps
Martin

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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Mauser military conversions [Re: beleg2]
      #93592 - 06/01/08 09:07 AM

Martin,

That is good info. Do you have any pictures of one so done?

TIA

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GoneShootin
.224 member


Reged: 18/07/07
Posts: 31
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Mauser military conversions [Re: Bramble]
      #94796 - 20/01/08 05:41 PM

What is so different about the 1909 argentines in that regard?

Has this got to do with removing metal around the lower locking lug abutment to get a good feeding ramp?

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MauserRifle
.300 member


Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 153
Loc: U.S.A.
Re: Mauser military conversions [Re: Jano]
      #94839 - 21/01/08 09:28 AM

Jano,

I am not a gunsmith nor do I have any expertees in gunsmithing, in fact I have a post on this forum now concerning modifying actions. With that said, I have used a 9.3x62 for some time now and as others have pointed out is a very good cartridge that can be used on a standard length action. There is hardly any differnece in performance between the 9.3x62 and a 375 H&H, but a very noticable difference in recoil. I much prefer the 9.3x62 over the 375 H&H. But this is my humble opinion!

--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!

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Judson
.300 member


Reged: 21/09/05
Posts: 192
Loc: St. Albans Maine U.S.A.
Re: Mauser military conversions [Re: MauserRifle]
      #96602 - 12/02/08 12:18 PM


In my opinion and experance a 98 "can" be modified to take any of the cartridges mentioned. However once one goes over the standard magnum length like the Taylor, the .458 and such you run into two big problems. First you in general with most actions have to remove metal hat weakens the action. True the 98 has strength to spare but this is not a good idea all the same. Second if this work is done properly you could buy a magnum length action like a CZ which even has a single set trigger for far less then the Mauser conversion would cost.
The big draw back to using most Mausers action for cartridges .375 length and such is that you have to cut back the lower lug, (the feed ramp) and this and the upper lug recess is where all the strength of the action is and has to be. Any cutting here reduces the strength of the action and your safety. In the case of the Rigby you also have a marginal barrel shank diameter and unless te barrel threads are matched to the action,(They should be in any barreling job), one stands the chance for a buldged chamber if too hot a load is fired as there is little margin for error. Hope I have been of some help, been doing this stuff for years.

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.

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Plains99
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA
Re: Mauser military conversions [Re: Judson]
      #96636 - 13/02/08 04:29 AM

Well, I'm going to throw in my 2 pennies worth on this discussion for you to consider. Mauser conversions on today's market can get very expensive and unless you have the services of a very good gunsmith you need to tread carefully. I tried the Mauser conversion route on .458 Win Mags and it gets expensive and something always seemed to not work out with them. Magazine box too short for certain rounds and feeding problems, magazine floor plate issues, and other minor items. Before you do that I advise that you carefully look at what CZ, Ruger, Winchester, Weatherby, and other companies are selling brand new in models specifically designed for .375, 9.3X62, or any other round. The simple fact is that you can buy a CZ very reasonably right now and take it to any competent gunsmith to have the action smoothed and the stock glassed... and end up with a very fine Mauser action rifle for probably less money than you'll end up spending on an old warhorse conversion. Been there, done that. The conversions are all gone at my house and I have a Savage, Ruger, and CZ that work much better than any of them did.

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88MauSporter
.375 member


Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas
Re: Mauser military conversions [Re: Plains99]
      #96638 - 13/02/08 06:06 AM

I am looking at my FN (Belgium) Commercial '98 action .375 H&H and an Interarms Mark X '98 action .30-06 side by side. I can find little difference in the two. The length of the Mark X and the FN compare to my Military Gew 98. The only difference I see is the length of the magazine. I don't see that the feed ramp area is less on the .375. It does seem that the bolt goes back farther and there is a small notch cut in the face of the Ring to allow for the bullet tip to clear on loading
Would this mean that any lenghtening be at the back of the Magazine, rather than the front? In this way, there is no lessening of the metal behind the lower lug?

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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Judson
.300 member


Reged: 21/09/05
Posts: 192
Loc: St. Albans Maine U.S.A.
Re: Mauser military conversions [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #96651 - 13/02/08 10:44 AM


I build custom rifles for a living and converting a military Mod. 98 to a .375 can be done and if done properly it will be safe and feed, extract and do all the other stuff perfectly. However, this work takes time and one has to know what they are doing. Time equals money and as has been said you can buy an action which is already set up for the longer cartridges for less then the price of converting a standard Mauser properly.
True the Mauser will end up being a unique rifle with an action style of it's own, the same can be done with the big P-14 or P-17 Enfields but all are very labor intensive. If you want to see what can be done with these actions check out the gun build at customguns.us. If you do want to go with a military action for the big stuff look long and hard at the P-14/P-17 actions.

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.

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beleg2
.375 member


Reged: 15/08/07
Posts: 591
Loc: Bahía Blanca - Argentina
Re: Mauser military conversions [Re: Judson]
      #96951 - 18/02/08 12:46 AM

HI,
Sorry for been late.
As you probably know we have a lot of 1090 rifles here.LOL So rebarreling and reforming for .375 H&HMag. is very common.
A freind of mine have a Interarms Mark X '98 in .375 H&H Mag.and after some shooting found that the lower lug ahve moved back. Also, a gunsmith I know is now trying to reapir another rifle with the same problem. IMHO it is a bad idea to convert the 98 Mauser to the front.
I will try to post some pictures of the 1909 magazine for you to see the differences. Some years ago I sold my .375 H&H MAg. on a 1909.
What magazine releace do the 1908 Brazilian Mauser have?
Thanks
Martin

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