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DarylS
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: DarylS]
      #375495 - 24/03/23 04:58 PM

Quote:

If it does 2,150fps with a 400gr. FMJ, DGS or DGX in .423",
I dare say the penetration will be more than sufficient & would be wonderful on the larger NA game.




After all, ballistics are ballistics. If the bullet is up to the job, the ballistics are IT!

Uh Huh!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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grandveneur
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
      #375497 - 24/03/23 05:44 PM

Sure, theoretically a cartridge 10,75x68 loaded with an 400gr bullet at 2100 fps and more can perform the same as an cartridge 404 Jeffery, but so far I am waiting for someone to do it and to reach it, despite the small powder capacity of this cartridge. Unfortunately, it is only talked about and nobody tells of his successes.

The reason why I believe that it is not possible to get more potential out of this cartridge. The RWS company gives loading data for the 10,75x68 cartridge and a 400 gr bullet, but with the maximum load, 2000 fps at the muzzle is hardly achieved.

I really don't know why people try to improve such obsolete cartridges when one have nowadays so many good cartridges available for hunting big game.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: grandveneur]
      #375498 - 24/03/23 06:02 PM

Quote:



I really don't know why people try to improve such obsolete cartridges when one have nowadays so many good cartridges available for hunting big game.




Perhaps because someone does buy or own one and wants to make use of it.

I'm happy with my .375, .404 and .450.

--------------------
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Rothhammer1
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
      #375499 - 24/03/23 06:23 PM

Quote:


I'm happy with my .375, .404 and .450.






--------------------
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grandveneur
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
      #375501 - 24/03/23 09:40 PM

Quote:

...


Perhaps because someone does buy or own one and wants to make use of it.







Sure, that's how it was for me too, but more than 30 years ago and at a time where the good old cartridges for big game hunting were only just reappearing.

Apart from big game hunting, the cartridge is very useful for other game species at not too great shooting distance.


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DarylS
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: grandveneur]
      #375504 - 25/03/23 02:39 AM

Certainly agree with that. On the other hand, I did very well on coyote with my .458, such that, when I built a .257 Robert's IMP, I shot over everything for a while. Hard to break old habits.

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Daryl


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buckstix
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: DarylS]
      #375507 - 25/03/23 06:42 AM

Hello All,
Thanks for the reply.

OK, I don't intend to continue this stupid, ridicules, debate over the past performance of the 10.75x68 cartridge. Just because someone had less than optimum success with the cartridge over 30 years ago has no direct bearing on its potential today.

Just like when the 458 WM was first introduced in 1956, it couldn't get 1950 fps with a 500g bullet. Yet today, with modern powders, it easily achieves 2150fps, and even over 2200 fps with some powders.

The 10.75x68 CAN achieve 2150 with a 400g bullet with today's modern powders. Perhaps the disappointed hunter should have traded his 10.75x68 rifle for something bigger and better, 31 years ago ... or practiced more with the rifle for better shot placement.

In the mean time, I started this post because of my joy at finding a wonderful classic Oberndorf Mauser, in such a rare caliber, not to have the cartridge criticized. I love my new rifle, in spite of criticized, rumored shortcomings. :}

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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93x64mm
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
      #375509 - 25/03/23 07:27 AM

Quote:


............In the mean time, I started this post because of my joy at finding a wonderful classic Oberndorf Mauser, in such a rare caliber......... I love my new rifle, in spite of criticized, rumored shortcomings. :}




And that's the whole she-bang in a nutshell!
Why do we love the cartridges we do? Because they are different from the 'common or run of the mill types'; its not to say that we don't have those as well!
Enjoy your sport folks, regardless of calibre, if you like it & it does as intended with the game you shoot with it, then good for you I say!
Looking forward to your range report Buckstix as always mate.
You have a unique rifle, take her out for a spin & see what she can do!


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grandveneur
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
      #375511 - 25/03/23 07:33 AM

Quote:

Hello All,
Thanks for the reply.

OK, I don't intend to continue this stupid, ridicules, debate over the past performance of the 10.75x68 cartridge. Just because someone had less than optimum success with the cartridge over 30 years ago has no direct bearing on its potential today.

Just like when the 458 WM was first introduced in 1956, it couldn't get 1950 fps with a 500g bullet. Yet today, with modern powders, it easily achieves 2150fps, and even over 2200 fps with some powders.

The 10.75x68 CAN achieve 2150 with a 400g bullet with today's modern powders. Perhaps the disappointed hunter should have traded his 10.75x68 rifle for something bigger and better, 31 years ago ... or practiced more with the rifle for better shot placement.

In the mean time, I started this post because of my joy at finding a wonderful classic Oberndorf Mauser, in such a rare caliber, not to have the cartridge criticized. I love my new rifle, in spite of criticized, rumored shortcomings. :}




I'm a little disappointed by this answer, but one can always be mistaken about the true personality of the members of a forum. But that doesn't matter, we don't know each other.

By the way, all three Buffaloes were one shot kills thanks to good shot placement, but based on what I found afterwards regarding the depth of the penetration, I should not have made a mistake.

I will not further burden your circle of collectors with my posts. I am just a hunter who, among other things, shot buffaloes in Africa and Southeast Asia with very different cartridges.

Have fun collecting !


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buckstix
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: grandveneur]
      #375512 - 25/03/23 08:09 AM

Quote:

..."By the way, all three Buffaloes were one shot kills thanks to good shot placement, but based on what I found afterwards regarding the depth of the penetration"....




Hello grandveneur,
Thanks for the reply, it is always welcome.

I'm sorry you took my comments so personal. Its just that I'm frustrated that my original post went so far off topic. This post was intended to be about my rifle, not the cartridge.

But now that you said "One shot kills with good shot placement" .. I really don't understand why you would criticize the cartridge. That is exactly what we all hope for from our hunting rifles. That sounds like a good testament for your skill "and" the 10.75x68 cartridge.

I will be posting Chronograph load development and targets soon.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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3DogMike
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: grandveneur]
      #375513 - 25/03/23 08:41 AM

Grandveneur….I for one appreciate hearing of your experience with these cartridges, sorry that you are feeling the need to depart.

Two thoughts here:
1) I have an original Mauser Type A in 10.75x68 that weighs 7lbs 8oz (no scope) and has a horn buttplate. The rifle is quite lively enough with the original 347 grain bullet hand loaded to ~2150'/sec. I would not be interested in trying to duplicate a .404 Jeffery 400 grain bullet load at that same velocity. I would have to guess that the non professional hunters in the old days would agree…….
I think some people just like to BS about what amounts to a moot point. The 10.75x68 could be loaded to equal an original .404 Jeffery ~2100'/sec with modern powders and pressures that were not considered in the old days, but why do it?

2) As to hunting effectiveness, there were guys like John Taylor that trashed the caliber and where his writings were popular it resulted in a dismissal of the cartridge as inadequate for Africa.
On the other hand there are Tony Sanchez Ariño and Pierre van der Walt that say it was & is (with the proper bullets of course) quite an adequate cartridge choice for most African game.
It must be noted that the German ammunition is said to have used bullets that could not stand up, while the results with Kynoch ammunition were said to be quite adequate.
Given the relative popularity of the Mauser and the 10.75x68, it seemed to fill the need for a rifle that would put meat on the table and suffice for dealing with the bulk of sport hunting in Africa. Optimum for the Big 5? Maybe not so much, but I am led to believe that most of the colonist farmers did not engage in that activity anyway.
So just my 2¢
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

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eagle27
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
      #375519 - 25/03/23 02:32 PM

With my Mauser 404 I did shoot a couple of red deer and some feral goats with the RWS 347gr bullets I show in my earlier post. They are very accurate bullets in the 404 (has the original 10.75x68 barrel) and I only load them to about the same 2200fps velocity as I do the RWS 400gr solids I have used on buffalo.
Unfortunately I didn't recover any of the 347gr bullets but they certainly dropped the deer and goats in their tracks.

Donald Anderson, son of Kenneth Anderson the Anglo/Indian hunter who 'specialized' in dispatching man-eating tigers and leopards in Southern India earlier last century, was a great exponent of the Mauser 10.75x68. Some say Donald actually dispatched many more man-eaters, non man-eaters and elephant with his Mauser than his famous father did with his Win'95 lever action in 405Win that he preferred.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: eagle27]
      #375522 - 25/03/23 03:49 PM

I read Kenneth Anderson wrote more about Maneaters and rogue elephants than ever he hunted. Certainly his rip roaring yarns are enjoyable but can be hard to believe.

Never heard of his son before. Interesting.

***

Regarding forums. They're aren't echo chambers. Where all one will hear, or read is one's own beliefs and agreement with them.

Some might actually like the excessive velocity of a .460 Weatherby Magnum. Others might prefer the quiet efficiency of a .450/400.

Regarding the 10.75x68. assuming Woodleigh continues with both bullets? I note Woodleigh made a 347 gr for the 10.75 and a different 350 gr for the .404. The latter is recommended for 300 fps higher velocities, up to 2,600 fps. I'm guessing the jacket of the 350 gr RNSN is heavier than the 347 gr.

Moot point if Woodleigh doesn't remake one or both again in the future? Well see. I think a lot of less demanded bullets might disappear. I hope the 350 gr .404 is still made. I'd prefer a 75% 300 gr .404 anyway. I've never seen the point of a 400 gr and then such a close weight of 350 gr for plains game. Just use the 400 gr for everything. But I'd consider using the 350 gr .404 bullet in the 10.75.

One other factor is barrel rifling twist. Are the rifling twists of the 10.75 and .404 the same? This also has bullet choice impact. Perhaps Buckstix knows for his new rifle?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
      #375523 - 25/03/23 04:05 PM

Quote:

grandvenuer said :Therefore, before expressing a opinion on the effectiveness of this cartridge when hunting big game, it would be better to test it yourself.




Quote:

Buckstix said: Its been my job to keep the elephant population under control here in Wisconsin, ..... and I've been doing a good job.




I don't see a need for any aggro. It's just forum discussions. GV, said "test it yourselves". And Buckstix plans to use the rifle in .... Wisconsin .... So if North American is the most the rifle will do, the biggest the rifle will see is moose, elk and brown bear. I don't know Wisconsin, but maybe whitetail and Muie deer.

An 8 lb 13 oz traditional 10,75x68 sounds like a fun rifle to hunt and play with.

Buckstix, you will have fun with it. Lots of ammo supplies in the purchase.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
      #375524 - 25/03/23 04:16 PM



Buckstix, please explain the rear sight. 300 and 079. Plus a middle standing leaf I believe. I don't think I've seen two opposing leaves like this before with a central standing leaf.

What do the 300 and 079 stand for, 300 metres and 79 metres? 79? What's on the other side of the leaf?

What distance is the standing leaf for? I would guess 100 m. The "079" 200 m. And the 300, 300 m.

Thanks.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (25/03/23 04:19 PM)


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Rothhammer1
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
      #375525 - 25/03/23 04:21 PM

Quote:

I love my new rifle, in spite of criticized, rumored shortcomings. :}




I'd say that your love is well placed.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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Rothhammer1
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
      #375533 - 25/03/23 09:24 PM

Quote:

I don't think I've seen two opposing leaves like this before with a central standing leaf...


..What distance is the standing leaf for? I would guess 100 m. The "079" 200 m. And the 300, 300 m.







Your guess is correct regarding 100m, 200m, 300m, '079' matches last three digits of S/N as stamped on other parts.

Description of 'Standard Three Leaf Sight' from 1939 Stoeger:

"...the three-leaf type with folding leaves for 200 and 300 meters, and the centre sight for 100 meters permanently fixed;" (interesting they used a British spelling for 'centre' while going Yank for 'meters').

So; both leaves down = 100m, rear leaf up = 200m, front leaf up = 300m.


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buckstix
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #375536 - 25/03/23 09:40 PM

Quote:

One other factor is barrel rifling twist. Are the rifling twists of the 10.75 and .404 the same? This also has bullet choice impact. Perhaps Buckstix knows for his new rifle?


Hello NitroX,
Thanks for the reply.

The barrel twist is the "16.5" that is stamped on the barrel. I don't know the twist rate of a 404.

Quote:

I don't think I've seen two opposing leaves like this before with a central standing leaf...

..What distance is the standing leaf for?


Hello Rothhammer1,
Thanks for the reply.

As the rear sight shown in the picture, the 3-leaf site was one of several options for the rifle. As Rothhammer1 pointed out, the "079" is the last 3 digits of the rifle's serial number. The standing sight is marked "100", the folding leaf leaf closest is marked "200", and farthest leaf is marked "300".

However, I don't think my 72 year old eyes will be much use over 50 meters. I might have to add one of my "Improised 50-Meter Peep Sights" - like this one that I added to my Turkey Gun. Here in Wisconsin the Sights are Free, and there are SIX of them with every 6-Pack of beer.



--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Rothhammer1
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
      #375539 - 25/03/23 09:59 PM

Quote:

Hello Rothhammer1,
Thanks for the reply.
I don't think my 72 year old eyes will be much use over 100 meters.




Glad you enjoyed the replies.

I'm a decade behind you and I used the 'special folding peep sight' and iron on my M1910 MS years ago in Northern Arizona more than the scope, but before shooting again I should find someone to recondition the old Gerard 'B' (4X, post reticle) if I want to hit much.

--------------------
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kuduae
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
      #375540 - 25/03/23 11:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

One other factor is barrel rifling twist. Are the rifling twists of the 10.75 and .404 the same? This also has bullet choice impact. Perhaps Buckstix knows for his new rifle?



The barrel twist is the "16.5" that is stamped on the barrel. I don't know the twist rate of a 404.



The Mauser, Oberndorf factory used the same 420 mm = 16.5” twist length in their .404, .416 and 10.75x68 barrels. See page 275 of on Speed’s Mauser – OOSR book.


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lancaster
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
      #375550 - 26/03/23 04:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:

One other factor is barrel rifling twist. Are the rifling twists of the 10.75 and .404 the same? This also has bullet choice impact. Perhaps Buckstix knows for his new rifle?


Hello NitroX,
Thanks for the reply.

The barrel twist is the "16.5" that is stamped on the barrel. I don't know the twist rate of a 404.

Quote:

I don't think I've seen two opposing leaves like this before with a central standing leaf...

..What distance is the standing leaf for?


Hello Rothhammer1,
Thanks for the reply.

As the rear sight shown in the picture, the 3-leaf site was one of several options for the rifle. As Rothhammer1 pointed out, the "079" is the last 3 digits of the rifle's serial number. The standing sight is marked "100", the folding leaf leaf closest is marked "200", and farthest leaf is marked "300".

However, I don't think my 72 year old eyes will be much use over 50 meters. I might have to add one of my "Improised 50-Meter Peep Sights" - like this one that I added to my Turkey Gun. Here in Wisconsin the Sights are Free, and there are SIX of them with every 6-Pack of beer.






this made my day!

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Rothhammer1
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
      #375554 - 26/03/23 07:05 AM

Quote:

I might have to add one of my "Improised 50-Meter Peep Sights" - like this one that I added to my Turkey Gun. Here in Wisconsin the Sights are Free, and there are SIX of them with every 6-Pack of beer.






Now, that's a custom installation on your 'ghost - ghost ring sight'.

Is it 'tactical' ?

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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93x64mm
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: lancaster]
      #375555 - 26/03/23 07:05 AM

Hey if this sighting system works - don't knock it!
Guess you use the 'peep' as range estimation as well Buckstix?


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lancaster
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #375566 - 26/03/23 07:58 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I might have to add one of my "Improised 50-Meter Peep Sights" - like this one that I added to my Turkey Gun. Here in Wisconsin the Sights are Free, and there are SIX of them with every 6-Pack of beer.






Now, that's a custom installation on your 'ghost - ghost ring sight'.

Is it 'tactical' ?




for being tactical you need to use BLACK tape to fix it!

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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eagle27
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: kuduae]
      #375570 - 26/03/23 08:16 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

One other factor is barrel rifling twist. Are the rifling twists of the 10.75 and .404 the same? This also has bullet choice impact. Perhaps Buckstix knows for his new rifle?



The barrel twist is the "16.5" that is stamped on the barrel. I don't know the twist rate of a 404.



The Mauser, Oberndorf factory used the same 420 mm = 16.5” twist length in their .404, .416 and 10.75x68 barrels. See page 275 of on Speed’s Mauser – OOSR book.




Not sure why there is a difference between Speed's book and the data from a Mauser catalogue circa 1910 reproduced in Ludwig Olson's book 'Mauser Bolt Rifles' which lists the 10.75x68 twist as being 14.17" in a barrel length 23.62". I can confirm by measurement that my Oberndorf Type A standard length Mauser which was a 10.75x68 (now opened up for the 404J cartridge) and was manufactured in the same year bracket as buckstix's Mauser, has same barrel length and twist as per the Mauser catalogue data.
This twist rate stabilises 400gr bullets perfectly giving good accuracy from the 'original' 10.75x68 barrel on my now 404 Mauser. I imagine Mauser would have standardised on one twist rate for it's 10.75 calibre barrels.


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