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buckstix
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Loc: Whitetail Country

A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home
#375447 - 23/03/23 12:34 PM

A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home to be added to the others.

I just got this one in hand today and have posted pictures. This one is a real beauty.
And a marvelous complete package. All I need now is some warm weather, and an elephant in Wisconsin.

24" Barrel
8 pounds 13 ounces
14-1/2" LOP

as always, your comments are most welcome

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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DarylS
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375448 - 23/03/23 01:10 PM

SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Huvius
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Posts: 3525
Loc: Colorado

Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: DarylS]
#375452 - 23/03/23 02:12 PM

WOW!!
You're all set now in the 10.75X68 department.
That's a very nice and usable rig for sure!

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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eagle27
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: DarylS]
#375453 - 23/03/23 02:12 PM

Very good find and purchase buckstix. Getting all those new cases let alone the bullets is a heaven sent as 10.75 components are not always easy to come by.
My own 404 started life as a 10.75x68 only as a Type A Pattern No.1 and with serial no 109624 it was made in same 1930-31 year range as yours.

I have a few of the original early RWS 347gr bullets to hand that were made for the 10.75x68 and a couple of old rounds, one a Kynoch with a solid bullet and the other a Berdan primed case that had an odd 285gr Hollow Point bullet seated in it. I pulled the bullet to ascertain it's weight and found there was no powder in what I thought was a loaded round but it has the original unfired Berdan primer. This cartridge was given to me years ago by a friend so I don't know how it came to be as it was with a strange case, Berdan primer and bullet.

RWS 347gr bullets for the Mauser 10.75x68.

L - RWS 285gr .423 HP bullet. R - RWS 347gr SFP .423 bullet

Unusual 10.75x68 Berdan primed case which had the RWS 285gr HP bullet seated.

Will be keen to see how your new toy shoots.

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DarylS
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: eagle27]
#375454 - 23/03/23 02:44 PM

Yes- I am looking forward to some shooting results as well.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Rothhammer1
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375458 - 23/03/23 05:05 PM

Quote:

A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home to be added to the others.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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93x64mm
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Posts: 3987
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: DarylS]
#375462 - 23/03/23 10:55 PM

Quote:

Yes- I am looking forward to some shooting results as well.

Oh yes indeed!
Beautiful hunting rifle there mate, loaded down for pigs it will punch straight thru them no worries at all!
Now for that elephant you were waiting for............!

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1112
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: Rothhammer1]
#375463 - 23/03/23 10:59 PM

Hello All,
Thank you All for the interesting reply.

I'm really excited about owning such a Classic Mauser. It's from a time in History when German hunters used rifles like these in South Africa. Some say many more rifles like these than their British counterparts. Although controversy still continues about this caliber, its because of past bullet shortcomings. Modern bullets and powders available today, make it a viable Big Game rifle. Good quality bullets available from Hornady like the 400g Softs and Solids, can reach 2200 fps. The 10.75x68 is truly the baby brother to the 10.75x73. (404 Jeffery)

Its been my job to keep the elephant population under control here in Wisconsin, ..... and I've been doing a good job.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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degoins
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Posts: 427
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375466 - 24/03/23 12:18 AM

Wow....nice one....congrats!!

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NitroX
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375467 - 24/03/23 12:19 AM

That's true. IF you can get to 2100 fps or more with the 400 gr bullets, it will equal the old .404 Jeffery.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroX
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
#375468 - 24/03/23 12:25 AM

Some potential bullet choices.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=301932&page=0&vc=1

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Rothhammer1
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375469 - 24/03/23 12:26 AM

Quote:

It's from a time in History when German hunters used rifles like these in South Africa. Some say many more rifles like these than their British counterparts...

There was an Austrian, as well, though quite rare:

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Rothhammer1
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375471 - 24/03/23 12:37 AM

Quote:

Although controversy still continues about this caliber, its because of past bullet shortcomings. Modern bullets and powders available today, make it a viable Big Game rifle. Good quality bullets available from Hornady like the 400g Softs and Solids, can reach 2200 fps. The 10.75x68 is truly the baby brother to the 10.75x73. (404 Jeffery)

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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buckstix
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Posts: 1112
Loc: Whitetail Country

Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
#375472 - 24/03/23 01:48 AM

Quote:

That's true. IF you can get to 2100 fps or more with the 400 gr bullets, it will equal the old .404 Jeffery.

Hello NitroX,
Thanks for your reply.

400g Hornady SP - 56g IMR4198 = 2150 fps

I obtained this velocity with my old Oberndorf 10.75x68 rifle that I sold in 2021. I will be testing this load in this new rifle as well, and I expect similar results. This is nearly identical to 450-400 NE 3" results, which has been used extensively in Africa.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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kuduae
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375474 - 24/03/23 02:59 AM

Quote:

I'm really excited about owning such a Classic Mauser. It's from a time in History when German hunters used rifles like these in South Africa. Some say many more rifles like these than their British counterparts.

These 10.75x68 B type Mauser sporters were not only used by Germans in South Africa. Instead, they were the standard large bore repeaters all over non-British Africa, from Senegal to Somalia and from Mali to Mosambique. The French, Belgian, Portuguese, Spanish and Italian colonists there had not read Taylor. So they happily shot their elephants, rhinos and buffalos with rifles in 10.75x68, rifles made by Mauser, Suhl, MAS and Belgian makers. To them inches, grains, feet per second and foot pounds were just as foreign as metric numbers were to Brits and Americans like Taylor or Elmer Keith.

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kuduae
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: kuduae]
#375475 - 24/03/23 03:12 AM

The serial number 106079 dates it to 1930, see Jon Speed’s books.
Ch72 is the Mauser factory code for the barrel steel used.
10.45 mm = .411” is the bore/land diameter, 10.75 mm = .423” the groove diameter, 420 mm = 16.5” length of rifling twist.
67,49 is the old gauge number, lead balls to the English pound, for a bore/land diameter in between 10.41 mm = .410” and and 10.66 mm = .419”. Though out of use elsewhere in Germany since 1912, the Mauser factory continued to mark these gauge numbers on their commercial barrels until WW2.
BGU are the usual 1893 to 1939 German rifle proof marks.

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lancaster
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: kuduae]
#375476 - 24/03/23 05:06 AM

"The French, Belgian, Portuguese, Spanish and Italian colonists there had not read Taylor. So they happily shot their elephants, rhinos and buffalos with rifles in 10.75x68"

uninformed, thats what they were

--------------------
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.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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grandveneur
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: lancaster]
#375481 - 24/03/23 08:33 AM

Everything is fine, no one knows what went wrong.

In all these discussions, I am the only one who has shot buffaloes with this cartridge in Africa, two buffaloes with the original ammunition from RWS and the 22,5g thin jacketed bullet, one with a reloaded cartridge and a 347gr FMJ bullet from Woodleigh.

In all cases, as experienced big game hunters had previously noted, I found a lack of penetration.

Therefore, before expressing a opinion on the effectiveness of this cartridge when hunting big game, it would be better to test it yourself. This cartridge is marginal for hunting big game, and to believe that modern bullets and powder can improve something is just wishful thinking.

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FlatTop45
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: grandveneur]
#375482 - 24/03/23 10:22 AM

Hey buckstix! Another gorgeous rifle! You certainly have a talent for finding these beauties. Hopefully, the weather will cooperate and you will get the opportunity to try her out soon.

However, the way the weather has been acting lately, instead of an elephant, you may want to get a tag for a Wooly Mammoth instead!

J

Edited by FlatTop45 (24/03/23 10:24 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: FlatTop45]
#375484 - 24/03/23 11:17 AM

If it does 2,150fps with a 400gr. FMJ, DGS or DGX in .423",
I dare say the penetration will be more than sufficient & would be wonderful on the larger NA game.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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buckstix
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: grandveneur]
#375487 - 24/03/23 11:44 AM

Quote:

"....In all these discussions, I am the only one who has shot buffaloes with this cartridge in Africa, two buffaloes with the original ammunition from RWS and the 22,5g thin jacketed bullet, one with a reloaded cartridge and a 347gr FMJ bullet from Woodleigh.

Hello grandveneur.
Thanks for the reply.
.
I saw the original post that you later deleted .. and I appreciate you have had bad experiences when you hunted with your 10.75x68 rifle. Although I'll never use my rifle in Africa, I'm a retired researcher, and I look to several sources before jumping to conclusions. That being said, I'm more inclined to believe Pierre van der Walt's opinions and personal experiences when he wrote about the 10.75x68 cartridge in his book "African Dangerous Game Cartridges"
.

Quote:

In all cases, as experienced big game hunters had previously noted, I found a lack of penetration.

Not so ! ... not all experienced big game hunters agree ... as Pierre writes about the cartridge, " ... Those who knew it well, kept on using it ... " The cartridge was used extensively by German, French, Belgian, Portuguese, Spanish and Italian Big Game hunters, for many decades, harvesting Elephants, Rhinos, and Buffalo.

Quote:

Therefore, before expressing a opinion on the effectiveness of this cartridge when hunting big game, it would be better to test it yourself. This cartridge is marginal for hunting big game, and to believe that modern bullets and powder can improve something is just wishful thinking.

To make such a blanket statement about the "cartridge" is just plain false. Maybe next time try a better load. If you develop a load using good quality bullets,
(such as those from Hornady) at a velocity of 2,100+ fps, (and you have "good shot placement") you will likely be successful.

In "my" opinion, common sense says; the Elephant or Buffalo doesn't know what "cartridge" just killed him - just the bullet.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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eagle27
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Loc: Nelson, New Zealand

Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375488 - 24/03/23 12:59 PM

There has always been debate about the true effectiveness of the Mauser 10.75x68 cartridge, remembering that in the heyday of African hunting reloading was not practiced therefore it all came down to factory ammo performance. The shorter 347gr bullet loaded in the 10.75x68 did not have the sectional density that makes for good penetrating bullets and the earlier bullet jackets tended to be thinner than is used today. Even solid bullets in some cartridges fishtailed and distorted enough to preclude reliable penetration to the kill areas.
The respected cartridges that performed well on big game tended to have long and heavy for calibre bullets i.e. good sectional density.

Maybe of some interest is the image below showing both the 404 Jeffery (10.75x73) and 10.75x68 cartridges alongside the respective 400gr and 347gr bullets these cartridges are normally loaded with.
As can be seen, if loaded to normal OAL, a 'Kynoch' profile 400gr bullet would be seated approximately 4mm deep into the 10.75x68 cartridge powder capacity area, I calculate about an 8.5% capacity loss. Crimping maybe an issue too as the ogive of the 400gr bullet is down in, or close to being in, the case neck. This maybe overcome if magazine length and throating permitted seating the heavier bullets out to a longer OAL.
If a safe load was found for a 400gr bullet in the smaller Mauser case without going overboard on pressure and showing any hint of issues holding the bullet in the case neck then at 2100fps the 10.75x68 should be as effective as the 404 Jeffery was in it's original loading. Of course due to the earlier low intensity loading the 404 gained a reputation as an easy shooting cartridge which no doubt contributed to it's good performance on big and dangerous game. Whether a 10.75x68 loaded to original 404J specs can do the same, who knows.

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buckstix
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: eagle27]
#375491 - 24/03/23 02:58 PM

Hello eagle27,
Thanks for the reply.

Very interesting .. What you say is 98% spot-on ... However, you might want to read the details about sectional density in the "performance" chapter on the 10.75x68 cartridge in Pierre van der Walt's book "African Dangerous Game Cartridges". You might be surprised. That book also gives much loading data for the cartridge using 400g bullets, with several examples at 2140+fps. Same holds true with loads listed in Load Book. We are fortunate to have much improved powders and bullets and loading data available today for those who may be interested in using their 10.75x68 rifles for Big Game.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39245
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375493 - 24/03/23 03:43 PM

Sectional densities of .422/423 bullets from the Woodleigh site:

404 Jeffery .422"
35 350gr RN SN 50 .281 .293 1800-2600 1.128
33A 400gr RN SN 50 .321 .335 1900-2400 1.282
34 400gr FMJ 50 .321 .330 1.347
33B 450gr RN SN 50 .361 .360 1800-2300 1.416
34B 450gr FMJ 50 .361 .355 1.491

10.75 x 68mm .423"
36 347gr RN SN 50 .277 .290 1800-2300 1.116
36A 347gr FMJ 50 .277 .288 1.188

347/350 gr is SD .277/281

Below the optimum penetration SD of the .330/338 250 gr SD 328/313, .366 286 gr SD 305, 300 gr .375 SD 305, .416 400 gr SD 330, .422 400 gr SD 321, .458. 480 gr/500 gr. SD. 327/341.

All the usual choices are SD 305 to 340.

The .375 270 gr SD is .274.

Both the 10.75 with its 350 gr bullets and .375 lesser capacity cases with a 270 gr bullet have not reputable big heavy dangerous game reputations. One can see one possible reason for lack of penetration with their lower SDs.

The other possible reason is thinly jacketed SPs. Proper FMJs shouldn't have this problem. But still suffer a lower SD.

Using a 400 gr projectile for the .404 with good jacket and construction should remove any such issues. If sufficient velocity can be achieved.

The original .404 loading, 400 gr at 2,100 fps and the .450/400 NEs, 400 gr at also 2,100 fps, both have probably killed thousands of buffalo, elephant and other thick skinned game.

NO reasons the 10.75x68 with a decent 400 gr at 2,100 fps can't do the same.

I'm sure I've read of hunters using the 10.75x68 on Australian water buffalo. Also at least one magazine article. Just none of our Aussie NE members. Be good to know of their personal experiences.

The 10.75x68 cartridge is uncommon here in Australia. Far fewer rifles coming on sale or auction than in Europe. Why get a x68 when one can get the better .404, .375, .458 etc? There are some certainly around. Often at a better price.

Interesting that this was one cartridge used heavily by continental world hunters. No wonder there is so often French rifles from their colonial empire chambered in 10.75x68. in addition to the usual German and Austrian rifles.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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buckstix
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Posts: 1112
Loc: Whitetail Country

Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
#375494 - 24/03/23 04:25 PM

Quote:

.....The original .404 loading, 400 gr at 2,100 fps and the .450/400 NEs, 400 gr at also 2,100 fps, both have probably killed thousands of buffalo, elephant and other thick skinned game. NO reasons the 10.75x68 with a decent 400 gr at 2,100 fps can't do the same. .....

Hello NitroX,
Thanks for the reply.

My point exactly ... modern times for a vintage cartridge.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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DarylS
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: DarylS]
#375495 - 24/03/23 04:58 PM

Quote:

If it does 2,150fps with a 400gr. FMJ, DGS or DGX in .423",
I dare say the penetration will be more than sufficient & would be wonderful on the larger NA game.

After all, ballistics are ballistics. If the bullet is up to the job, the ballistics are IT!

Uh Huh!

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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grandveneur
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375497 - 24/03/23 05:44 PM

Sure, theoretically a cartridge 10,75x68 loaded with an 400gr bullet at 2100 fps and more can perform the same as an cartridge 404 Jeffery, but so far I am waiting for someone to do it and to reach it, despite the small powder capacity of this cartridge. Unfortunately, it is only talked about and nobody tells of his successes.

The reason why I believe that it is not possible to get more potential out of this cartridge. The RWS company gives loading data for the 10,75x68 cartridge and a 400 gr bullet, but with the maximum load, 2000 fps at the muzzle is hardly achieved.

I really don't know why people try to improve such obsolete cartridges when one have nowadays so many good cartridges available for hunting big game.

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NitroX
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: grandveneur]
#375498 - 24/03/23 06:02 PM

Quote:

I really don't know why people try to improve such obsolete cartridges when one have nowadays so many good cartridges available for hunting big game.

Perhaps because someone does buy or own one and wants to make use of it.

I'm happy with my .375, .404 and .450.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Rothhammer1
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
#375499 - 24/03/23 06:23 PM

Quote:

I'm happy with my .375, .404 and .450.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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grandveneur
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
#375501 - 24/03/23 09:40 PM

Quote:

...

Perhaps because someone does buy or own one and wants to make use of it.

Sure, that's how it was for me too, but more than 30 years ago and at a time where the good old cartridges for big game hunting were only just reappearing.

Apart from big game hunting, the cartridge is very useful for other game species at not too great shooting distance.

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DarylS
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: grandveneur]
#375504 - 25/03/23 02:39 AM

Certainly agree with that. On the other hand, I did very well on coyote with my .458, such that, when I built a .257 Robert's IMP, I shot over everything for a while. Hard to break old habits.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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buckstix
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: DarylS]
#375507 - 25/03/23 06:42 AM

Hello All,
Thanks for the reply.

OK, I don't intend to continue this stupid, ridicules, debate over the past performance of the 10.75x68 cartridge. Just because someone had less than optimum success with the cartridge over 30 years ago has no direct bearing on its potential today.

Just like when the 458 WM was first introduced in 1956, it couldn't get 1950 fps with a 500g bullet. Yet today, with modern powders, it easily achieves 2150fps, and even over 2200 fps with some powders.

The 10.75x68 CAN achieve 2150 with a 400g bullet with today's modern powders. Perhaps the disappointed hunter should have traded his 10.75x68 rifle for something bigger and better, 31 years ago ... or practiced more with the rifle for better shot placement.

In the mean time, I started this post because of my joy at finding a wonderful classic Oberndorf Mauser, in such a rare caliber, not to have the cartridge criticized. I love my new rifle, in spite of criticized, rumored shortcomings. :}

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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93x64mm
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375509 - 25/03/23 07:27 AM

Quote:

............In the mean time, I started this post because of my joy at finding a wonderful classic Oberndorf Mauser, in such a rare caliber......... I love my new rifle, in spite of criticized, rumored shortcomings. :}

And that's the whole she-bang in a nutshell!
Why do we love the cartridges we do? Because they are different from the 'common or run of the mill types'; its not to say that we don't have those as well!
Enjoy your sport folks, regardless of calibre, if you like it & it does as intended with the game you shoot with it, then good for you I say!
Looking forward to your range report Buckstix as always mate.
You have a unique rifle, take her out for a spin & see what she can do!

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grandveneur
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375511 - 25/03/23 07:33 AM

Quote:

Hello All,
Thanks for the reply.

OK, I don't intend to continue this stupid, ridicules, debate over the past performance of the 10.75x68 cartridge. Just because someone had less than optimum success with the cartridge over 30 years ago has no direct bearing on its potential today.

Just like when the 458 WM was first introduced in 1956, it couldn't get 1950 fps with a 500g bullet. Yet today, with modern powders, it easily achieves 2150fps, and even over 2200 fps with some powders.

The 10.75x68 CAN achieve 2150 with a 400g bullet with today's modern powders. Perhaps the disappointed hunter should have traded his 10.75x68 rifle for something bigger and better, 31 years ago ... or practiced more with the rifle for better shot placement.

In the mean time, I started this post because of my joy at finding a wonderful classic Oberndorf Mauser, in such a rare caliber, not to have the cartridge criticized. I love my new rifle, in spite of criticized, rumored shortcomings. :}

I'm a little disappointed by this answer, but one can always be mistaken about the true personality of the members of a forum. But that doesn't matter, we don't know each other.

By the way, all three Buffaloes were one shot kills thanks to good shot placement, but based on what I found afterwards regarding the depth of the penetration, I should not have made a mistake.

I will not further burden your circle of collectors with my posts. I am just a hunter who, among other things, shot buffaloes in Africa and Southeast Asia with very different cartridges.

Have fun collecting !

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buckstix
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: grandveneur]
#375512 - 25/03/23 08:09 AM

Quote:

..."By the way, all three Buffaloes were one shot kills thanks to good shot placement, but based on what I found afterwards regarding the depth of the penetration"....

Hello grandveneur,
Thanks for the reply, it is always welcome.

I'm sorry you took my comments so personal. Its just that I'm frustrated that my original post went so far off topic. This post was intended to be about my rifle, not the cartridge.

But now that you said "One shot kills with good shot placement" .. I really don't understand why you would criticize the cartridge. That is exactly what we all hope for from our hunting rifles. That sounds like a good testament for your skill "and" the 10.75x68 cartridge.

I will be posting Chronograph load development and targets soon.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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3DogMike
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: grandveneur]
#375513 - 25/03/23 08:41 AM

Grandveneur….I for one appreciate hearing of your experience with these cartridges, sorry that you are feeling the need to depart.

Two thoughts here:
1) I have an original Mauser Type A in 10.75x68 that weighs 7lbs 8oz (no scope) and has a horn buttplate. The rifle is quite lively enough with the original 347 grain bullet hand loaded to ~2150'/sec. I would not be interested in trying to duplicate a .404 Jeffery 400 grain bullet load at that same velocity. I would have to guess that the non professional hunters in the old days would agree…….
I think some people just like to BS about what amounts to a moot point. The 10.75x68 could be loaded to equal an original .404 Jeffery ~2100'/sec with modern powders and pressures that were not considered in the old days, but why do it?

2) As to hunting effectiveness, there were guys like John Taylor that trashed the caliber and where his writings were popular it resulted in a dismissal of the cartridge as inadequate for Africa.
On the other hand there are Tony Sanchez Ariño and Pierre van der Walt that say it was & is (with the proper bullets of course) quite an adequate cartridge choice for most African game.
It must be noted that the German ammunition is said to have used bullets that could not stand up, while the results with Kynoch ammunition were said to be quite adequate.
Given the relative popularity of the Mauser and the 10.75x68, it seemed to fill the need for a rifle that would put meat on the table and suffice for dealing with the bulk of sport hunting in Africa. Optimum for the Big 5? Maybe not so much, but I am led to believe that most of the colonist farmers did not engage in that activity anyway.
So just my 2¢
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
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eagle27
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375519 - 25/03/23 02:32 PM

With my Mauser 404 I did shoot a couple of red deer and some feral goats with the RWS 347gr bullets I show in my earlier post. They are very accurate bullets in the 404 (has the original 10.75x68 barrel) and I only load them to about the same 2200fps velocity as I do the RWS 400gr solids I have used on buffalo.
Unfortunately I didn't recover any of the 347gr bullets but they certainly dropped the deer and goats in their tracks.

Donald Anderson, son of Kenneth Anderson the Anglo/Indian hunter who 'specialized' in dispatching man-eating tigers and leopards in Southern India earlier last century, was a great exponent of the Mauser 10.75x68. Some say Donald actually dispatched many more man-eaters, non man-eaters and elephant with his Mauser than his famous father did with his Win'95 lever action in 405Win that he preferred.

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NitroX
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: eagle27]
#375522 - 25/03/23 03:49 PM

I read Kenneth Anderson wrote more about Maneaters and rogue elephants than ever he hunted. Certainly his rip roaring yarns are enjoyable but can be hard to believe.

Never heard of his son before. Interesting.

***

Regarding forums. They're aren't echo chambers. Where all one will hear, or read is one's own beliefs and agreement with them.

Some might actually like the excessive velocity of a .460 Weatherby Magnum. Others might prefer the quiet efficiency of a .450/400.

Regarding the 10.75x68. assuming Woodleigh continues with both bullets? I note Woodleigh made a 347 gr for the 10.75 and a different 350 gr for the .404. The latter is recommended for 300 fps higher velocities, up to 2,600 fps. I'm guessing the jacket of the 350 gr RNSN is heavier than the 347 gr.

Moot point if Woodleigh doesn't remake one or both again in the future? Well see. I think a lot of less demanded bullets might disappear. I hope the 350 gr .404 is still made. I'd prefer a 75% 300 gr .404 anyway. I've never seen the point of a 400 gr and then such a close weight of 350 gr for plains game. Just use the 400 gr for everything. But I'd consider using the 350 gr .404 bullet in the 10.75.

One other factor is barrel rifling twist. Are the rifling twists of the 10.75 and .404 the same? This also has bullet choice impact. Perhaps Buckstix knows for his new rifle?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroX
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
#375523 - 25/03/23 04:05 PM

Quote:

grandvenuer said :Therefore, before expressing a opinion on the effectiveness of this cartridge when hunting big game, it would be better to test it yourself.

Quote:

Buckstix said: Its been my job to keep the elephant population under control here in Wisconsin, ..... and I've been doing a good job.

I don't see a need for any aggro. It's just forum discussions. GV, said "test it yourselves". And Buckstix plans to use the rifle in .... Wisconsin .... So if North American is the most the rifle will do, the biggest the rifle will see is moose, elk and brown bear. I don't know Wisconsin, but maybe whitetail and Muie deer.

An 8 lb 13 oz traditional 10,75x68 sounds like a fun rifle to hunt and play with.

Buckstix, you will have fun with it. Lots of ammo supplies in the purchase.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroX
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
#375524 - 25/03/23 04:16 PM

Buckstix, please explain the rear sight. 300 and 079. Plus a middle standing leaf I believe. I don't think I've seen two opposing leaves like this before with a central standing leaf.

What do the 300 and 079 stand for, 300 metres and 79 metres? 79? What's on the other side of the leaf?

What distance is the standing leaf for? I would guess 100 m. The "079" 200 m. And the 300, 300 m.

Thanks.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (25/03/23 04:19 PM)

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Rothhammer1
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Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375525 - 25/03/23 04:21 PM

Quote:

I love my new rifle, in spite of criticized, rumored shortcomings. :}

I'd say that your love is well placed.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
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Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
#375533 - 25/03/23 09:24 PM

Quote:

I don't think I've seen two opposing leaves like this before with a central standing leaf...

..What distance is the standing leaf for? I would guess 100 m. The "079" 200 m. And the 300, 300 m.

Your guess is correct regarding 100m, 200m, 300m, '079' matches last three digits of S/N as stamped on other parts.

Description of 'Standard Three Leaf Sight' from 1939 Stoeger:

"...the three-leaf type with folding leaves for 200 and 300 meters, and the centre sight for 100 meters permanently fixed;" (interesting they used a British spelling for 'centre' while going Yank for 'meters').

So; both leaves down = 100m, rear leaf up = 200m, front leaf up = 300m.

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buckstix
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: Rothhammer1]
#375536 - 25/03/23 09:40 PM

Quote:

One other factor is barrel rifling twist. Are the rifling twists of the 10.75 and .404 the same? This also has bullet choice impact. Perhaps Buckstix knows for his new rifle?

Hello NitroX,
Thanks for the reply.

The barrel twist is the "16.5" that is stamped on the barrel. I don't know the twist rate of a 404.

Quote:

I don't think I've seen two opposing leaves like this before with a central standing leaf...

..What distance is the standing leaf for?

Hello Rothhammer1,
Thanks for the reply.

As the rear sight shown in the picture, the 3-leaf site was one of several options for the rifle. As Rothhammer1 pointed out, the "079" is the last 3 digits of the rifle's serial number. The standing sight is marked "100", the folding leaf leaf closest is marked "200", and farthest leaf is marked "300".

However, I don't think my 72 year old eyes will be much use over 50 meters. I might have to add one of my "Improised 50-Meter Peep Sights" - like this one that I added to my Turkey Gun. Here in Wisconsin the Sights are Free, and there are SIX of them with every 6-Pack of beer.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1813
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375539 - 25/03/23 09:59 PM

Quote:

Hello Rothhammer1,
Thanks for the reply.
I don't think my 72 year old eyes will be much use over 100 meters.

Glad you enjoyed the replies.

I'm a decade behind you and I used the 'special folding peep sight' and iron on my M1910 MS years ago in Northern Arizona more than the scope, but before shooting again I should find someone to recondition the old Gerard 'B' (4X, post reticle) if I want to hit much.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1775
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375540 - 25/03/23 11:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

One other factor is barrel rifling twist. Are the rifling twists of the 10.75 and .404 the same? This also has bullet choice impact. Perhaps Buckstix knows for his new rifle?

The barrel twist is the "16.5" that is stamped on the barrel. I don't know the twist rate of a 404.

The Mauser, Oberndorf factory used the same 420 mm = 16.5” twist length in their .404, .416 and 10.75x68 barrels. See page 275 of on Speed’s Mauser – OOSR book.

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lancaster
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Posts: 8729
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375550 - 26/03/23 04:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:

One other factor is barrel rifling twist. Are the rifling twists of the 10.75 and .404 the same? This also has bullet choice impact. Perhaps Buckstix knows for his new rifle?

Hello NitroX,
Thanks for the reply.

The barrel twist is the "16.5" that is stamped on the barrel. I don't know the twist rate of a 404.

Quote:

I don't think I've seen two opposing leaves like this before with a central standing leaf...

..What distance is the standing leaf for?

Hello Rothhammer1,
Thanks for the reply.

As the rear sight shown in the picture, the 3-leaf site was one of several options for the rifle. As Rothhammer1 pointed out, the "079" is the last 3 digits of the rifle's serial number. The standing sight is marked "100", the folding leaf leaf closest is marked "200", and farthest leaf is marked "300".

However, I don't think my 72 year old eyes will be much use over 50 meters. I might have to add one of my "Improised 50-Meter Peep Sights" - like this one that I added to my Turkey Gun. Here in Wisconsin the Sights are Free, and there are SIX of them with every 6-Pack of beer.

this made my day!

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1813
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375554 - 26/03/23 07:05 AM

Quote:

I might have to add one of my "Improised 50-Meter Peep Sights" - like this one that I added to my Turkey Gun. Here in Wisconsin the Sights are Free, and there are SIX of them with every 6-Pack of beer.

Now, that's a custom installation on your 'ghost - ghost ring sight'.

Is it 'tactical' ?

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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93x64mm
.416 member

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Posts: 3987
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: lancaster]
#375555 - 26/03/23 07:05 AM

Hey if this sighting system works - don't knock it!
Guess you use the 'peep' as range estimation as well Buckstix?

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lancaster
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: Rothhammer1]
#375566 - 26/03/23 07:58 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I might have to add one of my "Improised 50-Meter Peep Sights" - like this one that I added to my Turkey Gun. Here in Wisconsin the Sights are Free, and there are SIX of them with every 6-Pack of beer.

Now, that's a custom installation on your 'ghost - ghost ring sight'.

Is it 'tactical' ?

for being tactical you need to use BLACK tape to fix it!

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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eagle27
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Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand

Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: kuduae]
#375570 - 26/03/23 08:16 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

One other factor is barrel rifling twist. Are the rifling twists of the 10.75 and .404 the same? This also has bullet choice impact. Perhaps Buckstix knows for his new rifle?

The barrel twist is the "16.5" that is stamped on the barrel. I don't know the twist rate of a 404.

The Mauser, Oberndorf factory used the same 420 mm = 16.5” twist length in their .404, .416 and 10.75x68 barrels. See page 275 of on Speed’s Mauser – OOSR book.

Not sure why there is a difference between Speed's book and the data from a Mauser catalogue circa 1910 reproduced in Ludwig Olson's book 'Mauser Bolt Rifles' which lists the 10.75x68 twist as being 14.17" in a barrel length 23.62". I can confirm by measurement that my Oberndorf Type A standard length Mauser which was a 10.75x68 (now opened up for the 404J cartridge) and was manufactured in the same year bracket as buckstix's Mauser, has same barrel length and twist as per the Mauser catalogue data.
This twist rate stabilises 400gr bullets perfectly giving good accuracy from the 'original' 10.75x68 barrel on my now 404 Mauser. I imagine Mauser would have standardised on one twist rate for it's 10.75 calibre barrels.

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eagle27
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
#375571 - 26/03/23 08:45 AM

Quote:

I read Kenneth Anderson wrote more about Maneaters and rogue elephants than ever he hunted. Certainly his rip roaring yarns are enjoyable but can be hard to believe.

Never heard of his son before. Interesting.

Surprised you haven't heard of Donald. Kenneth also had a daughter June, who has lived in Australia (Perth I think) for years. If I recall correctly she married a naval man and they have had children, granddaughters to Kenneth. They produced a tribute video on the anniversary of Donald's death. See link below to the tribute video and also a link to a video of Donald talking about his dad Kenneth.
It seems Kenneth was a pretty tough nut, Donald talks highly of his virtues so I imagine Kenneth probably did do much of what he wrote about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJznwgzhmCY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw8y0Mec558&t=1s

Here's an image of Donald taking out a charging leopard (panther) with his 10.75x68. Kenneth allowed Donald to narrate the hunt in his own words in one of his books. Very frightening how the school friend photographer ended up behind the charging leopard.

Maybe we will get to see buckstix recreate such a feat with his new 10.75x68

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NitroX
.700 member

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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: kuduae]
#375580 - 26/03/23 03:51 PM

Quote:

The Mauser, Oberndorf factory used the same 420 mm = 16.5” twist length in their .404, .416 and 10.75x68 barrels. See page 275 of on Speed’s Mauser – OOSR book.

Thank you gentlemen.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroX
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375581 - 26/03/23 03:53 PM

Quote:

As the rear sight shown in the picture, the 3-leaf site was one of several options for the rifle. As Rothhammer1 pointed out, the "079" is the last 3 digits of the rifle's serial number. The standing sight is marked "100", the folding leaf leaf closest is marked "200", and farthest leaf is marked "300".

However, I don't think my 72 year old eyes will be much use over 50 meters. I might have to add one of my "Improised 50-Meter Peep Sights" - like this one that I added to my Turkey Gun. Here in Wisconsin the Sights are Free, and there are SIX of them with every 6-Pack of beer.

I didn't look at this properly before.

Wow!

Survivalist zombie apocalypse solution.

Is a pull tab from a Coca-Cola or a Pepsi better?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroX
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: eagle27]
#375582 - 26/03/23 03:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I read Kenneth Anderson wrote more about Maneaters and rogue elephants than ever he hunted. Certainly his rip roaring yarns are enjoyable but can be hard to believe.

Never heard of his son before. Interesting.

Surprised you haven't heard of Donald. Kenneth also had a daughter June, who has lived in Australia (Perth I think) for years. If I recall correctly she married a naval man and they have had children, granddaughters to Kenneth. They produced a tribute video on the anniversary of Donald's death. See link below to the tribute video and also a link to a video of Donald talking about his dad Kenneth.
It seems Kenneth was a pretty tough nut, Donald talks highly of his virtues so I imagine Kenneth probably did do much of what he wrote about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJznwgzhmCY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw8y0Mec558&t=1s

Here's an image of Donald taking out a charging leopard (panther) with his 10.75x68. Kenneth allowed Donald to narrate the hunt in his own words in one of his books. Very frightening how the school friend photographer ended up behind the charging leopard.

Maybe we will get to see buckstix recreate such a feat with his new 10.75x68

Thanks Eagle.

Tricky photo and dangerous shot if from a non staged photo.

Buckstix, here's something for your 10.75.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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buckstix
.400 member

Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1112
Loc: Whitetail Country

Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
#375607 - 27/03/23 01:21 AM

Hello All,
Thanks for the reply.

Here is a quote from a man on a different forum ...

"... A great caliber that suffered the ignorance of the shooting world in its day.. They produced the wrong bullet that continued to fail and blamed the caliber as we still do at times..

I hunted Buffalo and Plains game with it some years ago.. the good Hornerber brass was available and good Woodleigh 347, 350 and 400 gr. bullets were abundant.. The 347 and 350 got me 2300 plus a good bit, and the 400s were good for 2100 to 2200.. Worked on Buffalo and PG just fine and gave you an extra round in a good 98 Mauser with 5 down in mine and one up the tube...."

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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eagle27
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Posts: 1124
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand

Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
#375620 - 27/03/23 12:44 PM

Quote:

Hello All,
Thanks for the reply.

Here is a quote from a man on a different forum ...

"... A great caliber that suffered the ignorance of the shooting world in its day.. They produced the wrong bullet that continued to fail and blamed the caliber as we still do at times..

I hunted Buffalo and Plains game with it some years ago.. the good Hornerber brass was available and good Woodleigh 347, 350 and 400 gr. bullets were abundant.. The 347 and 350 got me 2300 plus a good bit, and the 400s were good for 2100 to 2200.. Worked on Buffalo and PG just fine and gave you an extra round in a good 98 Mauser with 5 down in mine and one up the tube...."

Don't agree with the quote. The RWS and Kynoch bullets of the day were the same as the bullets used in the 404, only they were 347gr. Yes the RWS and Kynoch bullets were not as well constructed as Woodleigh and other bullets available today but in the 404 those early bullets were heavier and longer with greater sectional density, a recipe for good penetration even allowing for some distortion due to the thinner sidewalls of the early bullets. Fishtailing or distortion of the stubby 347gr bullet in the 10.75x68 was a recipe for poor performance on big game especially elephant.

Woodleigh did not get into production of their first bullets until 1984-86, soft point weldcore developed around 1988 and supply to RWS, Norma and Wolfgang Romey from 1993 onwards. This was way out of time of the great ivory hunting in Africa.

So in the days of the great ivory and other game hunting in Africa the ammunition available for the 10.75x68 just didn't cut the mustard for that real big game. The shooting world in its day was NOT ignorant they could only use what was available and like a few other cartridges the Germans just could not quite get there when compared with what the British were doing with cartridges for big and dangerous game.

However today with good bullets and reloading ability the 10.75x68 can be a good performer but will never catch up to the great performers; 404J, 416R and 425WR in that 40cal category.

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NitroX
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: eagle27]
#375756 - 02/04/23 12:53 AM

I don't want to start up any debate again.
H
But on FB someone said Bror von Blixen-Finecke used a 10.75x68.

I haven't read his book for a long time, so I don't remember. Anyone know? I knowvhevdid use other rifles for sure. I have some vague recollection of a .500 NE or .577 NE?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1775
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
#375758 - 02/04/23 01:28 AM

IIRC there was a guy who shot more than hundred forest elephants in the Rio Muni – Gaboon region with a B – Mauser in 10.75x68. He never complained. Maybe he did not know better. At least, he could not afford the fancy British rifles and their expensive Kynoch ammo.

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lancaster
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: kuduae]
#375769 - 02/04/23 03:01 AM

the old 10,75x68 don't have so much love anymore but this makes the rifles cheaper if you want to buy it

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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buckstix
.400 member

Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1112
Loc: Whitetail Country

Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: lancaster]
#375804 - 04/04/23 12:28 AM

Quote:

the old 10,75x68 don't have so much love anymore but this makes the rifles cheaper if you want to buy it

Hello lancaster,
Thanks for the reply.

I wish that was true. Most seem to sell for serious money.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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