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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum

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3DogMike
.400 member

Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1413
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: DarylS]
#374632 - 01/03/23 08:10 AM

There were all sorts of 10.75mm up to 11.2mm rimless in those days. Anyones guess until such time as Buck gets it in hand.
10.75x57 Mauser would be interesting, tho likely problematic to headspace.

- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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buckstix
.400 member

Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1109
Loc: Whitetail Country

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: 3DogMike]
#374633 - 01/03/23 10:02 AM

Hello All,
Thanks for the reply.

Have you heard the saying "butter side down" ... it refers to when you drop a piece of buttered bread, it always seems to land "butter side down". Well this purchase is "butter side down".

Its an 8x57I. What colossal waste of time and money. Here are pictures of all the markings. I can understand that an auction house doesn't do a chamber cast, but a simple $1 gauge would have saved a lot of time and disappointment. And to top it off, I'm out another $500 because I went and bought a set of 11.2x72 loading dies, and 100 pcs of 11.2x72 brass for this rifle. So .... anyone got an 11.2x72 for sale?

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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3DogMike
.400 member

Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1413
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: buckstix]
#374637 - 01/03/23 12:15 PM

Well Buck, that is a “revolting development” to say the least…….

As an aside; looking at your chamber cast, what do you suppose the deal is with the leade/throat? Looks like at least 1” of freebore or even case neck outside diameter ahead of the case mouth.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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buckstix
.400 member

Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1109
Loc: Whitetail Country

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: 3DogMike]
#374640 - 01/03/23 01:33 PM

Quote:

Well Buck, that is a “revolting development” to say the least…….

As an aside; looking at your chamber cast, what do you suppose the deal is with the leade/throat? Looks like at least 1” of freebore or even case neck outside diameter ahead of the case mouth.
- Mike

Hello 3DogMike,
Thanks for the reply.

As per their auction listing - it said ...... "Bore is very good with light wear" That's another bunch of crap! There is no rifling for the first 1-1/2" in the throat, and as you noted, throat is burned out to case mouth diameter, and same goes for the last 1" at the muzzle, that's also void of any rifling. The rest of the barrel is shallow 4-groove that is rough. If they can't get the caliber right, why would one believe anything else they said about the bore.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: buckstix]
#374641 - 01/03/23 01:41 PM

Very disappointing indeed. Can you send it back? I would never trust anything from that auction house or any auction house they recommended.
Misrepresentation in the very slightest. Fraudulent sale is what it is.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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buckstix
.400 member

Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1109
Loc: Whitetail Country

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: DarylS]
#374649 - 01/03/23 03:13 PM

Hello DarylS,
Thanks for the reply.

Yes, they will take it back - no hesitation. They are suppose to send a return label. We'll see if they also refund the $125 shipping that I paid. They said it will be relisted with the correct information in their April auction. We'll see how high it goes next time. Bummer is still the $500 I'm out for buying brass and dies for 11.2x72 caliber. I posted a Want Ad looking for any rifle in that caliber, now that I have dies and brass. Like I said, what a colossal waist of time and money this has been.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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eagle27
.400 member

Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1123
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: buckstix]
#374650 - 01/03/23 03:46 PM

That's a bummer, is the rifle worth keeping and having it bored and chambered for something else, is there enough meat in the barrel for 11.2mm?

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8716
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: eagle27]
#374651 - 01/03/23 04:34 PM

very sad end

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1770
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: lancaster]
#374653 - 01/03/23 09:21 PM

That 8x57I rifle is a collecto’s item in it’s own right. It’s an early Suhl made Mauser, built on a Mauser, Oberndorf commercial action. The Mauser serial number 11927 dates the action to 1905. It was originally proofed in Suhl. As the German proofs were not accepted in Austria then, R.Mahrholdt, owner of the Peterlongo shop, had it reproofed by the Ferlach proofhouse in 1906. So the rifle is as old as Jim Corbett’s famous Rigby Mauser. The long leade in the barrel was a common feature of 8x57I barrels to accommodate the long, cylindrical 227 gr bulles. Even today the CIP prescribes a 42 mm = 1.65” long freebore from case mouth to rifling for 8x57I chambers.
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early. Buying something unseen and unknown may get really expensive.”

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buckstix
.400 member

Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1109
Loc: Whitetail Country

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: kuduae]
#374654 - 01/03/23 11:53 PM

Quote:

That's a bummer, is the rifle worth keeping and having it bored and chambered for something else, is there enough meat in the barrel for 11.2mm?

hello eagle27,
thanks for the reply.

The barrel is much to thin to re-bore to any larger caliber.

Quote:

That 8x57I rifle is a collecto’s item in it’s own right. It’s an early Suhl made Mauser, built on a Mauser, Oberndorf commercial action. The Mauser serial number 11927 dates the action to 1905. It was originally proofed in Suhl. As the German proofs were not accepted in Austria then, R.Mahrholdt, owner of the Peterlongo shop, had it reproofed by the Ferlach proofhouse in 1906. So the rifle is as old as Jim Corbett’s famous Rigby Mauser. The long leade in the barrel was a common feature of 8x57I barrels to accommodate the long, cylindrical 227 gr bulles. Even today the CIP prescribes a 42 mm = 1.65” long freebore from case mouth to rifling for 8x57I chambers.
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early. Buying something unseen and unknown may get really expensive.”

Hello kuduae,
Thanks for the reply.

I didn't think I was buying a complete unknown rifle since the listing stated 11mm caliber in 4 places in the description. I would have been happy with "any" 11mm caliber. If the rifle was in better condition I might consider keeping it, but I paid over $3,150 and I don't believe its worth that much. I am not sure what a reasonable value would be to make the auction house an offer for me to keep it and not send it back for a refund.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8716
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: buckstix]
#374655 - 02/03/23 03:00 AM

you are right, its a good rifle but 3150$ is a fraud with the data given

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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mckinney
.400 member

Reged: 29/01/09
Posts: 1212
Loc: usa

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: lancaster]
#374658 - 02/03/23 05:32 AM

I am reminded of a section in African Rifles & Cartridges where one of Taylor's hunting companions loved the 8x57 Mauser and the .450-400 and invariably carried one cartridge of each in his pocket. No doubt the 8x57 was with the 227 grain bullet.

You might consider keeping the rifle, particularly if the auction house is willing to reimburse some part of the price.

The 8x57 with 227 grain bullet is a big game rifle in my view, but of course not a big bore rifle.

Of course if it is out of line with the theme of your collection, that is a deal breaker.

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8716
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: mckinney]
#374659 - 02/03/23 07:09 AM

the price was over the market value

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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buckstix
.400 member

Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1109
Loc: Whitetail Country

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: lancaster]
#374660 - 02/03/23 08:57 AM

Hello all
Thanks for the reply/

The auction house offered a $200 refund if I wanted to keep it ... or a full refund if I return it ....

it went back today ..... another lesson learned ... oh well ...

By the way I've got another Mauser coming tomorrow from a different auction house ... I'll start a new post about that one tomorrow.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: buckstix]
#374664 - 02/03/23 12:30 PM

Looking forward to the new post.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39203
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: mckinney]
#374667 - 02/03/23 07:20 PM

Quote:

I am reminded of a section in African Rifles & Cartridges where one of Taylor's hunting companions loved the 8x57 Mauser and the .450-400 and invariably carried one cartridge of each in his pocket. No doubt the 8x57 was with the 227 grain bullet.

...

The 8x57 with 227 grain bullet is a big game rifle in my view, but of course not a big bore rifle.

A .318 or .323 calibre 227 gr bullet would have similar penetration of the .318 WR, .330 250 gr.

I like the rifle purchased. $3150 might not be unusual on our excessively priced usedguns site here ... If people get what's asked for on that site I'm priced out of the market.

Buckstix, you have to be more like me. Look for brass, dies etc 20 years after buying a rifle ...

Looking forward to your new thread. Btw please report back what this rifle sells for as a 8x57. Out of interest.

Please leave the images up. I'll copy them to the NE server when I can. It's a good example of the sort of rifle it should have been correctly labelled as.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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93x64mm
.416 member

Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3978
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: NitroX]
#374670 - 02/03/23 09:57 PM

Sorry to hear that you got 'stung' Buckstix!
The rifle certainly looked quite nice in my eyes & rare as kuduae explained; but if its not what the auctioneer said it was then you certainly have a case to send it back.
Lets hope your next foray nets something far closer to the mark for you!

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buckstix
.400 member

Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1109
Loc: Whitetail Country

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: 93x64mm]
#374674 - 03/03/23 12:09 AM

Quote:

Looking forward to your new thread. Btw please report back what this rifle sells for as a 8x57. Out of interest.

Please leave the images up. I'll copy them to the NE server when I can. It's a good example of the sort of rifle it should have been correctly labelled as.

Hello NitroX
Thanks for the reply.

The rifle is suppose to be re-listed in their April Auction. I hope they mention the bore condition honestly. Be sure to mention that if you show my pictures. I will not be bidding on it because of the poor bore condition.

btw ... I always keep my images up - forever.

Quote:

Sorry to hear that you got 'stung' Buckstix!
The rifle certainly looked quite nice in my eyes & rare as kuduae explained; but if its not what the auctioneer said it was then you certainly have a case to send it back.
Lets hope your next foray nets something far closer to the mark for you!

Hello 93x64mm
Thanks for the reply.

Yes, it was sent back yesterday. Although the bore was less than desirable, I would have been happy with it if it had been an 11mm. ... but not as an 8x57.

I also want to give a special "thank you" to kuduae for his help in explaining about the rifle.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39203
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: buckstix]
#374678 - 03/03/23 12:21 AM

Quote:

I will not be bidding on it because of the poor bore condition.

I missed that earlier. Certainly different to the auction description.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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buckstix
.400 member

Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1109
Loc: Whitetail Country

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: NitroX]
#374718 - 03/03/23 12:15 PM

Hello All,

Like I said earlier, I got another Mauser today from a different action house ..

here's the link under the title "German Gunsmith Modified Model 98 Mauser"

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=374717&an=0&page=0#Post374717

and here's the very HAPPY ENDING to the 11mm Mauser saga ... everything turned out far, far better than
I ever expected.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=374726&an=0&page=0#Post374726

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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