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buckstix
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HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm
#374431 - 25/02/23 02:50 AM

Hello All,

I bought a rifle last week and have no clue what I bought. I haven't received it yet. Probably will be 2 weeks before I get it in hand.
I would like to find out what the caliber is so I can buy brass and dies in preparation for its arrival. Its a 98 Mauser and it was listed as "Austrian Johann Peterlongo 11mm cal rifle.
The markings on the left side show a proofing 2,67 g G.B.P. / St.m.G. (see picture) Does this help to identify what the caliber might be? Your comments would be most welcome.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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kuduae
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Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: buckstix]
#374432 - 25/02/23 03:30 AM

That 2,67 gramm = 41 gr rifle flake powder / steel jacket bullet” service load would be on spot for a 8x57I with the original 14.7 g = 227 gr bullet. I don’t know about any German “11 mm” cartridge with such a low service load. Even the smallest, the 10.75x57, was loaded with 3.5 g = 54 gr of the same powder. Maybe the barrel was replaced or rebored by Peterlongo in Austria? If so, there should be Austrian proofmarks below the wood.

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buckstix
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Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: kuduae]
#374433 - 25/02/23 03:38 AM

Hello kuduae,
Thanks for the reply.

I was suspecting that was the standard marking for an 8x57. I sure hope that it turns out that the barrel was replaced or rebored by Johann Peterlongo,
to some kind of an 11mm caliber. Perhaps a 10.75x68, or an 11.2x60 or an 11.2x72? Otherwise I paid a "very high" price for an ordinary 8x57 sporter.
I guess I'll have to wait to see what I bought. Thanks again.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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kuduae
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Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: buckstix]
#374435 - 25/02/23 04:25 AM

As it is a pre-WW1 rifle, built on a Mauser, Oberndorf commercial action, two originally Austrian chamberings are possible too, the 10.75x63 and the 10.75x52 Roth / Springer. J.Peterlongo, Innsbruck, Austria, was then run by Richard Mahrholdt.

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DarylS
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Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: kuduae]
#374439 - 25/02/23 05:28 AM

The original stock on my 9.3x62 looked identical to this rifle. Some of the front receiver ring engraving is the same as well.
I realize this doesn't help with your question, buckstix, sorry for the intrusion if this is a bother to you.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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themauserkid
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Posts: 85
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Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: DarylS]
#374441 - 25/02/23 06:36 AM

10.75x61 is another possibility.

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1768
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: themauserkid]
#374445 - 25/02/23 07:41 AM

Just a terrible suspicion came to my mind: Perhaps the barrel is still in 8x57I, but the muzzle is backbored to about 11 mm. Doing this was a common practice to salvage a barrel eith a worn out muzzle, but preserving the original front sight base. The seller of the rifle may have looked at the muzzle only and guessed at "about 11 mm".

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
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Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: kuduae]
#374450 - 25/02/23 10:59 AM

Hello kuduae,
Thanks for the reply.

I sure hope that is not the case. ? ? ? .... I likely paid 3 times the value of an 8x57 because it was advertised as an 11mm ... Here is the listing ...

" .... Item Description:

AUSTRIAN JOHANN PETERLONGO 11mm CAL RIFLE | Austrian Johann Peterlongo 11mm caliber bolt action rifle. 23" full rib barrel stamped "Johann Peterlongo Jnnsbruch Tirol". Austrian proofs. Blued finish. Checkered wood stock. Flip leaf rear sight. Double set trigger. Sling mounts. | Caliber / Ga 11mm | Barrel Length 23" | Serial Number NSN | Condition: Overall good. Light wear and oxidation. Bore is very good with light wear. Mechanically very good. ...."

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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DarylS
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Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: buckstix]
#374464 - 25/02/23 03:20 PM

I see 11mm 3 times in the add. But the question is, what 11mm ctg. could it be in a 98 Mauser?

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroX
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Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: DarylS]
#374468 - 25/02/23 06:52 PM

Good luck. Hope it works out and waiting to see when it arrives.

No great academic knowledge but when I hear of Germanic 11 mm rifles I think of German East Africa/Tanganyika/Tanzania.

I'll have to search what cartridge I am thinking of.

A pre war WW1 Mauser would be right as well.

Irrespectively, a nice looking Mauser.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Hunter4752001
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Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: DarylS]
#374469 - 25/02/23 06:57 PM

The firm was known to make rifles in 11.2 x 72 Schuler as well as a few proprietary calibres. The 11.2x72 Schuler used a rebated case head to suit the 98 action. Allegedly a popular African big game cartridge in the German protectorates of the time. Bertram make brass for it.

Cartridge dimensions at
https://loaddata.com/Cartridge/112x72-Schuler/3060

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lancaster
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Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: Hunter4752001]
#374470 - 25/02/23 08:13 PM

a chamber cast will tell the truth

Mahrhold and Schüler were friends and a lot of this Mahrhold/Peterlongo rifles came from Suhl

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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kuduae
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Posts: 1768
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: lancaster]
#374472 - 25/02/23 08:42 PM

Quote:

" .... Item Description: AUSTRIAN JOHANN PETERLONGO 11mm CAL RIFLE | Austrian Johann Peterlongo 11mm caliber bolt action rifle. 23" full rib barrel stamped "Johann Peterlongo Jnnsbruch Tirol". Austrian proofs. ...."

Austrian proofs? I see a German, Suhl or Zella-Mehlis, 8x57I service load information only so far.

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NitroX
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Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: Hunter4752001]
#374473 - 25/02/23 08:52 PM

Quote:

The firm was known to make rifles in 11.2 x 72 Schuler as well as a few proprietary calibres. The 11.2x72 Schuler used a rebated case head to suit the 98 action. Allegedly a popular African big game cartridge in the German protectorates of the time. Bertram make brass for it.

Cartridge dimensions at
https://loaddata.com/Cartridge/112x72-Schuler/3060

.439 calibre, 400 gr 2100 fps to 2400 fps.

Similar to a .404 Jeffery in power?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (25/02/23 11:51 PM)

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buckstix
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Posts: 1107
Loc: Whitetail Country

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: kuduae]
#374478 - 25/02/23 10:37 PM

Quote:

per kuduae ....."Just a terrible suspicion came to my mind: Perhaps the barrel is still in 8x57I, but the muzzle is backbored to about 11 mm.
Doing this was a common practice to salvage a barrel with a worn out muzzle, but preserving the original front sight base.
The seller of the rifle may have looked at the muzzle only and guessed at "about 11 mm".

Hello All,
Thanks for the reply.

If the rifle turns out to be an ordinary 8x57I with an altered muzzle as mentioned above by kuduae, I am really going to be pissed.

I paid a BIG premium for a prewar 11mm Big Game rifle. I collect Big Game rifles, not 8x57 sporters.

Also, I assumed the caliber was going to be 11.2x72 Schuler as that is the only 11mm I found commonly associated with Johann Peterlongo.
I spent over $500 to buy dies and 100 pcs of brass to load the 11.2x72 Schuler cartridge, which may turn out to be for a caliber I don't have.

Fortunately I didn't have to buy bullets because I already swage custom .439 dia. bullets for my 11.15x58R Austrian Werndl rifles.

Although I will do a chamber cast if its an 11mm, a simple "look" at the chamber and the muzzle will reveal if its an ordinary 8x57I caliber.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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lancaster
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Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: buckstix]
#374480 - 26/02/23 12:14 AM

I remember a 11,2x60 Schüler rifle by Mahrhold too, maybe

if its a 8x57 I would say this is deception

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Huvius
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Posts: 3522
Loc: Colorado

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: lancaster]
#374482 - 26/02/23 01:09 AM

If it is an 8mm then send it back. Demand a refund.

Same thing happened to me last year with what was supposed to be a muzzle loading 10bore with a shiny bore which turned out to be a 15 bore with a sewer pipe for a barrel!

The auctioneer wasn't happy but the fact was quite clear that the description wasn't even close to the actual item.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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buckstix
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Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: Huvius]
#374484 - 26/02/23 02:08 AM

Hello
Thanks for the reply.

If it turns out to be an 8x57 I will definitely send it back. Then hope to find someone that will buy the 11.2x72 dies and brass. With the 11.2x72 being such a rare caliber, that may prove to be a problem.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1107
Loc: Whitetail Country

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: buckstix]
#374588 - 28/02/23 04:15 AM

Hello All,

Thanks again ... I don't have the rifle in hand yet. In fact it still hasn't been shipped. I've been worried sick waiting to find out what I bought. I have since reviewed the pictures again and found some stampings on the bolt handle. Looks like a "crown" and a "crown/N" and perhaps a faint "eagle" above. I've shown the picture below, but its pretty blurry because I had to enhance and enlarge the image. Any comments, or if this tells any additional information? thanks

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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kuduae
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Posts: 1768
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Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: buckstix]
#374593 - 28/02/23 09:37 AM

The CROWN - crown/N proofmarks were the standard German smokeless proofs for a proofload using the "4000 atm special proof powder". As this proof was used for many chamberings pre-WW1, it tells nothing about caliber.

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1107
Loc: Whitetail Country

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: kuduae]
#374596 - 28/02/23 10:45 AM

Quote:

The CROWN - crown/N proofmarks were the standard German smokeless proofs for a proofload using the "4000 atm special proof powder". As this proof was used for many chamberings pre-WW1, it tells nothing about caliber.

Hello kuduae,
thanks for the reply.

Would you know if Johann Peterlongo (or his company) was building sporters "after" WWI, using prewar Mauser actions as a basis for their custom rifles?

I'm told the rifle has shipped. I might have the answer as to caliber in the next day or so.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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DarylS
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Posts: 26479
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Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: buckstix]
#374597 - 28/02/23 10:48 AM

Fingers and toes & eyeballs crossed.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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themauserkid
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Posts: 85
Loc: Texas

Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: kuduae]
#374598 - 28/02/23 10:56 AM

The top down view of the receiver and barrel shank looks too small IMO, the 11.2 rifles’ barrel shank is barely smaller than the nominal diameter of a large ring 98.

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buckstix
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Posts: 1107
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Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: themauserkid]
#374611 - 28/02/23 02:00 PM

Quote:

The top down view of the receiver and barrel shank looks too small IMO, the 11.2 rifles’ barrel shank is barely smaller than the nominal diameter of a large ring 98.

Hello themauserkid,
Thanks for the reply.

I searched several pictures of 11.2x72 rifles. It looks close but can't tell. I did find a couple rifles in 11.2x60 that look very similar to mine. And also found a few in 10.75x68 that look similar.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26479
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Re: HELP IDENTIFY - WHAT DID I BUY? - Johann Peterlongo 11mm [Re: buckstix]
#374613 - 28/02/23 04:26 PM

I wondered about 10.75 X 68mm.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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