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Been obsessing over Type Bs for a long time. I’ve decided to admit I’ll never own one (any time soon at least). So I’m Going to attempt to build a look a like. .... I’ll not be D&Ting it for a scope but may D&T the rear ring for a receiver sight, not 100% on that though...

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Here is an informative thread posted by member Kuduae a decade ago (click link): Aperature Sights

The Sportarget, Lyman 1A, and Lyman 35 do not require drilling to the receiver.

From 1939 Stoeger (US) catalog:


Parker Hale Sportarget


Lyman 1A


Lyman 35

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Wedgie,
I'm not sure if you could use this as a reference based on the Mauser action itself, but if blown up large enough you may be able to scale up from there?

Type B

Type A

Mauser PreWar?

Also added info from Lothar-Walther Barrels
Mauser types Page 17

Hopefully Lancaster or Kudae might be able to assist in this regard as to which 'profile' matches & then go from there
Fingers crossed for you matey
Certainly a worthy project!

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In page 124 of Jon Speed's "Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles" there is a factory drawing of the Type E (English) barrel profile used on rifles made up in calibers from .250" to .350". It's pretty dim and I'm not sure it would scan legibly, but I am willing to give it a try if you will let me have your email address.

Jon Speed says 6.5" to .404" in the text, but the label on the drawing clearly says ".250-.350 u. 6.5-9" The barrel length is given as 600 mm (23.6").

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Here is an informative thread posted by member Kuduae a decade ago (click link): Aperature Sights

The Sportarget, Lyman 1A, and Lyman 35 do not require drilling to the receiver.

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Wedgetail,
I have a Type B Oberndorf in 7x57 (1924 production) that is fitted with Lyman 35. I'll measure the barrel & send you the specs.
Spud303

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mate that is fantastic thanks a lot! Sounds like a perfect rifle too... if it’s too much faff attaching photos I can PM you my mobile number?

out of interest is it this barrel style?


Or this?


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“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” - Rudyard Kipling

Edited by Wedgetail (23/07/20 11:57 AM)

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Don't worry about a little wiggle with a cocking piece sight. The aperture has to move 8 thousandths with a sight radius that long, to shift the bullet impact 1" at 100 yards. And .008" is a lot of wiggle.
The cocking piece and sear engagement surfaces will tend to go back to the same spot anyway, once everything wears together.
You can make a notch like Rigby's did, but it's not really necessary.I have a rifle that shoots 2" all day long, and it's not done.

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...the info page about the Mauser details is especially interesting... the cocking piece peeps... very cool looking... initial purchase price.

...receiver peep sight... they’re also very American, and as far as I can tell never an original Mauser fitment... a Lyman 35 would be amazing but would probably cost as much as the stock and barrel combined.

Was the rear sight base a sleeve like a military one on a type B? And can you modify a military one to match? Was the barrel diameter the same in that spot? Can a military tangent sight be made to look like a type B tangent sight?

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I'm glad you found the images to be of use. The 'options' page shows that pre - WW2 buyers had several factory installed options available to them across model lines. In other words a sight that may initially seem 'improper' may well have been available as a factory installed 'cost option' when new. Surely images of Mauser, ZUM, and other European catalogs and advertisements of the day would provide more examples.

Regarding your type B sight/ military/ sleeve/ modification question, I don't know.
I have but cursory knowledge of Mausers, member Kuduae would likely be an excellent source of accurate information on the topic. Hopefully he'll 'weigh in'.

For highly detailed, high resolution photos that will enlarge well, look through Dorleac's archives and / or contact (member) Joel Dorleac. He is an expert restorer of Continental firearms and certainly knows his stuff.

My 1924 proofed Mannlicher Schoenauer M1910 Take Down (yes, I know, it's Austrian) wears a factory installed 'pop up' tang sight of the type that was also available (factory installed?) on Mausers:



I'd love to get hold of a Sportarget. Watch Ebay and other auction listings for Lyman 35.

Lyman 35 parts: Ebay 35 parts

Sportarget with different mount: Ebay Sportarget

Pricey Lyman 35: Pricey

This looks like the model Kuduae modified in his thread: PH Sportarget

Did you notice the "half round, half octagon barrel with raised matted solid rib" on the Model 610 image?
"Supplied regularly only in caliber .30 - 06 U.S. but can be had on special order in any Mauser caliber."



Parker Hale Sportarget on Mannlicher Schoenauer:


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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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...I'll have a crack at posting some photos but never seem to have much luck (your phone No. is probably a good back-up). G

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Wedgetail, it has the lower barrel style with fixed rear sight. I'll have a crack at posting some photos but never seem to have much luck (your phone No. is probably a good back-up). Great hunting rifle. Definitely likes German ammunition (RWS & Geco) with heavier projectiles. Also really likes the older style Win Super-X with 175 gr RN but these tend to punch thru Fallow without opening up.
Spud

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Couple more questions on originality: did Type Bs eve have the slab side panels in the stock either side of the action? I’m thinking these were mostly done by the independent German gun makers, but feel I have seen pictures of a type B with them...

...And trigger guard bows - did the Type Bs ever have the shotgun style... I have a bottom metal with DSTs inletted... .

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There's no info with this auction listing, but some photos: 7X57 Slab DST



Another:
Mauser B 1912



Another:


Perhaps these folks know the answer to when 'slab sides' were used and on which models: Renner

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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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I’m not certain if Mauser offered a shotgun style trigger guard on any of their cataloged models. I don’t think they did.

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Thanks for the links Rothhammer. Interestingly that first one with the full slab sides also has a shotgun trigger bow... although it’s not a very original looking rifle so maybe that bits changed. I do like the stock though. In fact I think I like slab sides, just trying to decide if I like them enough to deviate from my initial desire of creating as close to an original as I realistically can in terms of style - my action is marked 1937

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I was going a whole different way with this, but it appears that the 'full slab sides' are almost exclusively (?) seen on 'Haenel Mannlichers' such as their sporting version of Gewehr 88 (which they were producing under contract) and its descendants, the Haenel Modell 1900 and 1909. Link: Haenel
Searches of 'Haenel Mauser' end up with Gewehr 88 models in Mauser chamberings and I find very few 'slab sided' mousies.



Even so, it's entirely plausible to think that someone of that time (1937) may have crafted, or ordered to be built by a guild shop, a'custom' Mauser that varied considerably from the Mauser factory styles. Perhaps someone could have harbored a soft spot in their heart for a 'Mannlicher Haenel' they had previously owned and now (1937) wanted to have a stalking rifle of that style yet preferred the Mauser 98 action or available chamberings? Not 'Mauser original', but 'period aftermarket correct'?

Here is a page from the ol' '39 Stoeger offering stutzen stocks to spiff up WW1 surplus military rifles for do it yourselfers in the U.S., or one could send the rifle to Stoeger and have them do the conversion:



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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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...it's entirely plausible to think that someone of that time (1937) may have crafted, or ordered to be built by a guild shop, a'custom' Mauser that varied considerably from the Mauser factory styles.

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Hey fellas, there’s a slight misunderstanding going on here. The above .270 rifle is not an Oberndorf proper, that’s a prewar JP Sauer small ring with the typical trigger guard as seen on these.

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Apologies if that was me.

I'm really not at all well versed on Mauser variants.



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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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It’s also not a shotgun style per se, simply an enlarged forging of the typical Oberndorf guard, there is no tang extending past the rear action screw or anything on these...

I largely collect Sauer so if anyone would like pictures of this trigger guard or any other details let me know as I have some on hand. This trigger guard was pretty much standard at Sauer until roughly the early 1930’s it appears, after which the internal bow release lever and converted “standard” Mauser 98 pattern trigger guards show up on them. This particular pattern I do not have yet but am on the hunt for! The one I have not seen and assume will not, is the typical Oberndorf pattern of guard as used on most of their models. Neat project by the way!

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it's entirely plausible to think that someone of that time (1937) may have crafted, or ordered to be built by a guild shop, a'custom' Mauser that varied considerably from the Mauser factory styles. Perhaps someone could have harbored a soft spot in their heart for a 'Mannlicher Haenel' they had previously owned and now (1937) wanted to have a stalking rifle of that style yet preferred the Mauser 98 action or available chamberings? Not 'Mauser original', but 'period aftermarket correct'?

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I’m really curious to see what direction the OP decides to go, it would be very hard for me to nail one down, I have at least a dozen Mausers ideas I’d have to sort though!

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Sometimes I really like the internet... :

Westley Richards Mauser, properly tarted up for Indian royalty:
From Sauer:

From Kettner:

From Eckoldt:
Note the turned down 'butterknife' bolt handle and Prince of Wales grip.

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I’m sure some people like them, but these westley Richards aren’t so much to my taste - way Over stated And the lines just don’t work IMO

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That particular WR is very heavily embellished, of course, and has the extended magazine for the '.425 Bore' cartridge. I included it as an example of WR with 'slab sided' stock.

Some of their other offerings are quite lovely. They did put out some handsome adverts:





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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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...although I personally can't equate any evils perpetrated by a bygone government with the historical hardware they left behind. We can't change history, nor can we deny it.

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I have, however, passed on a half decent Luger at a half decent price because of the Nazi Eagle proofs. To some they add value, but not to me.

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yes that’s it exactly - that’s how I feel. It’s more a subconscious thing that I can’t rationalise. I think I might try scrubbing the more pitted one up, see how it goes then if I don’t like it/it’s not working out I’ll use the better one...

I’m the meantime, I received this yesterday. I now have a piece of genuine Type B to add to the build. Thank you very much spud303!







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“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” - Rudyard Kipling

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...or welding on a section of tube with the correct ID

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A 7mm or 8mm barrel will likely taper from 19 or 20 mm where the taper starts in front of the chamber, down to 14-and-a-bit mm at the muzzle. Front sight ramps consequently need a little bit of fiddling to fit properly.

And IMHO you won't want a mill-bastard front sight ramp! Pretty simple to just file-cut the ramp for ribbing or checkering.

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The stock looks good, which pattern did you choose.

Cameron is a top bloke.


Matt.

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hi wedgie, about the length of bolt, the straight down tear drop style bolts traditionally come down so the bottom is level with the bottom of the wood work, I’m wanting to use this style on a project and my gunsmith told me to get my bottom metal etc sorted before I get him to do the bolt, he also confirmed the bolt should reach the bottom of stock/metal, if you have a drop box of course the mag will be a bit lower again, really enjoying this thread, keep up the good work!

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I'm surprised there is so much wood to remove, the guy that panograph's my stocks gets them so close all I need to do is scrape the inletting to get a perfectly snug fit. He's 10-15 thousands under size, guess I'm spoiled.

Bob

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I like your thinking! Yes it’s a very good point - and not entirely unrealistic too. My main reason for wanting to build a copy is that I love the look of them, I’m never going to be trying to pass it off as an original so might as well put what I like on it anyway. Although I making it a Type B original As I can gives me bit of a tickle too...

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To be honest I am having problems deciding on quite a few details that could go either way. It took me a while to work exactly what I liked about classic sporters. I thought I had it fully nailed on a 100% Type B, then Cameron Hatcher made me aware of Plezier Mausers and that threw me a bit and gave me the side panel bug... I’ll try and do a bit of a progress report early next week I think

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So what stock profile have you decided on?

I rather like the slab sided Haenel Mauser with Prince of Wales grip that MauserKid posted earlier: https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=445617



Here are the types and styles offered in the '39 Stoeger:

Stutzen:


Kurz:


Type A:






Type B:




The 1939 Stoeger does not list the 28" barrelled 'Afrika' model.


Available chamberings, 1939:


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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Great build and incredible workmanship ... I'm watching this closely, as I've been interested in something similar!

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thanks for the kind words NC. I wish I could give a nice big juicy update but, well I can’t! I can’t screw the barrel in yet as waiting for paperwork to come through (it can’t be a rifle until that is sorted).

I’ve almost finished cleaning the barrel up, and have started reprofiling the Colombian carbine rear sight base. I just need to close the bore a little - the barrel came in slightly under spec. I cut it length ways and closed it up then welded it with MIG. Big mistake - it bubbled and spat horribly leaving heaps of massive voids. Anyone know what steel these bases are made from? Doesn’t feel like cast... I’ll try oxy welding either with mild filler or GP (like 12p) arc rods with the coating knocked off next but wondering if anyone else has run into this?





Also done a partial stoning of the action and am really pleased how it’s turning out. The pitting is now shallow, minimal and all below the stock line







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“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” - Rudyard Kipling

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