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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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Mvick
.224 member


Reged: 11/02/20
Posts: 12
Loc: South Dakota
318WR rifle issues
      #338377 - 26/02/20 06:18 AM

Greetings to the forum. Been a lurker here, but have joined and would like to present a rifle and solicit some answers/opinions.
Paid too much for this at a gun show in Sioux Falls. Those of you who are also on Accurate Reloading have already seen this.
It is a takedown, built on a commercial Mauser action, in 318 WR. It is marked “Made for Fereday’s and Sons, Salisbury.”
I liked the chambering, Rhodesian connection, and barrel configuration. It is an octagon-round with a full length integral rib. It has all the usual German proof marks, dated 12/26. I’m not sure about the Bayard marking on the action of what appears to be a German made rifle built on a commercial Mauser action.

There was some question about whether it is a 318WR or 8x60, so I slugged the barrel and did a chamber casting. It is a 318WR. I had a lot of trouble getting the cerrosafe casting out, and suspecting a mechanical lock brought it to a local smith for a borescope inspection. The chamber and bore are badly pitted.

If it doesn’t shoot, I would probably need a rebore. The only classic person African medium bore cartridge with a larger bore and chamber is 9.3x62. The muzzle diameter is only 0.583, which is cutting it pretty thin for a .366 bullet.

Any thoughts, opinions, or suggestions appreciated.


[image]https://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k46/mvick2/Mobile%20Uploads/CD51ED7E-45C2-4E07-8DBE-F45E35DD4B02.jpeg[/image]

[image]https://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k46/mvick2/Mobile%20Uploads/2916F171-4081-47D9-8210-D8FF80A83A3D.jpeg[/image]

[image]https://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k46/mvick2/Mobile%20Uploads/D5C54FF6-A820-43A1-B080-D9C3A3360981.jpeg[/image]


[image]https://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k46/mvick2/Mobile%20Uploads/B1584B91-2743-4A3B-AC39-F19F4736BF88.jpeg[/image]



[image]https://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k46/mvick2/Mobile%20Uploads/6CFAA95B-5D5C-4F7C-A417-63F32B1DB3D2.jpeg[/image]


[image]https://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k46/mvick2/Mobile%20Uploads/2A1A7282-E9E5-4FA4-8070-DDB74F0CAD19.jpeg[/image]

[image]https://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k46/mvick2/Mobile%20Uploads/E42FD876-B491-4AE7-AA23-16CB65D2FB45.jpeg[/image]

EDITED: jpegs do not work on these forums. JPGs work. Also you need to use "image" not "IMG".

RIGHT CLICK AND OPEN THE LINK IN A NEW TAB OR PAGE TO VIEW THE PICTURE. OR LEFT CLICK ON THEM AND THEY SHOULD OPEN IN A NEW TAB AS WELL.



Edited by NitroX (27/02/20 08:44 AM)

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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: Mvick]
      #338379 - 26/02/20 07:26 AM

Welcome.

My old favorite and workhorse...

.333Jeffery..

64mm chamber...333inch bullet. Bigger case. A reamer will remove all of the old chamber.

Edited by rigbymauser (26/02/20 07:29 AM)

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casper50
.400 member


Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: rigbymauser]
      #338380 - 26/02/20 07:31 AM

I bought that blank off of ebay for $75. It shot when I owned it a few years ago. I sold it at a gunshow in Soldonta Alaska awhile back.

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fraserdouble
.224 member


Reged: 06/06/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Australia
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: casper50]
      #338385 - 26/02/20 11:02 AM

Screw the barrel in one full turn and recut the chamber

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Mvick
.224 member


Reged: 11/02/20
Posts: 12
Loc: South Dakota
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: casper50]
      #338389 - 26/02/20 12:51 PM

Quote:

I bought that blank off of ebay for $75. It shot when I owned it a few years ago. I sold it at a gunshow in Soldonta Alaska awhile back.



Interesting. The seller told me the gun came from an Alaskan gun show. Could you tell me more? By blank, did you mean you bought and sold the barrel?
What then?

Sorry about the links instead of pictures. I used the same Photobucket link
I use on AR, but the pictures don’t appear. What am I doing wrong?

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: Mvick]
      #338391 - 26/02/20 01:39 PM

Those links go nowhere.
Maybe Photobucket is broken.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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casper50
.400 member


Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: tinker]
      #338393 - 26/02/20 06:05 PM

The stock. I bought the stock blank off of ebay. I bought the rifle at an auction in South Africa years ago. The original stock was extremely bad. Missing pieces, lots of punky wood and cracked at the hand.

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Mvick
.224 member


Reged: 11/02/20
Posts: 12
Loc: South Dakota
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: casper50]
      #338395 - 26/02/20 07:11 PM

DOH!!!
Now I know how Homer Simpson feels!

Pretty obvious it’s been restocked (very nicely) but it is really nice to fill in more of the story.
You gotta love the internet.

Why did you decide not to checker, if I may ask?

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3986
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: fraserdouble]
      #338401 - 26/02/20 11:03 PM

Quote:

Screw the barrel in one full turn and recut the chamber



I'd definitely agree with fraserdouble to give this a go first; second option if you really want that calibre would be to re-sleeve back to .318WR (at least you won't lose your proofs etc & third to go to the .333 Jeffery with a rebore as rigbymauser has championed.
Just my 2c's worth.
Very nice piece there matey!

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casper50
.400 member


Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: 93x64mm]
      #338419 - 27/02/20 04:43 AM

Didn't want to put another $300 into it.

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Mvick
.224 member


Reged: 11/02/20
Posts: 12
Loc: South Dakota
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: casper50]
      #338422 - 27/02/20 06:06 AM

Anyone know of a source for a 318 liner? John Taylor in Washington says he can’t get one.

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casper50
.400 member


Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: Mvick]
      #338430 - 27/02/20 08:10 AM

Ever since I first bought this rifle I have looked at other Mausers from the period and have yet to see a rear sight like this one. I doubt that it's rare but I've not seen another.

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: Mvick]
      #338431 - 27/02/20 08:12 AM

Have a barrel blank turned to the diameter needed to use it as a liner - keep the chamber area to be thick enough to chamber it and run it safely as it is - also incorporate the breech end of the blank and half or more of the threads.
Bore out and sleeve the old barrel over this specially turned liner, and make sure the liner threads are times to the couple or so legacy threads of the original barrel "sleeve" so that when it's screwed ba k on the rifle itlands the rib at 12:00

Does that make sense to you?

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39242
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: Mvick]
      #338432 - 27/02/20 08:19 AM

Quote:

Sorry about the links instead of pictures. I used the same Photobucket link
I use on AR, but the pictures don’t appear. What am I doing wrong?



Yeah this isn't shitty Arab Reloading. You need to use UBB code on these forums.

I'll see if I can fix the links. Photobucket is not a good photo hosting site anymore, unless you pay them

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Yochanan
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 912
Loc: Volksdiktatur Schweden
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: NitroX]
      #338441 - 27/02/20 10:01 AM

Another suggestion, rebore barrel to 358 and open the action to accomodate the 350 Rigby rimless. If you go this route also have the action lapped, and checked over and re-hardenened.

I think sticking with 318 W-R is better even if the lining of the barrel will costs a few pretty pennies. It's a great looking rifle. Funny the stamps on the barrel says 8x60.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3524
Loc: Colorado
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: casper50]
      #338443 - 27/02/20 11:08 AM

Many shot out 318s were rebored to 35 Whelen here but if your chamber is pitted, that won't clean up with a 35W chamber reamer. Probably won't with a 9.3X62 reamer either...

The rear sight is Mauser Type B.
Button is on the opposite side than the ones I've had though.



--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

Edited by Huvius (27/02/20 11:11 AM)

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26499
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: Huvius]
      #338448 - 27/02/20 12:06 PM


They would have to be less than .002" per side in the head area to clean up for the 9.3x62. Deeper yet might still work in the body, but, that's pure speculation.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1809
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: Mvick]
      #338451 - 27/02/20 01:07 PM

Quote:



Sorry about the links instead of pictures. I used the same Photobucket link
I use on AR, but the pictures don’t appear. What am I doing wrong?




Here's a free and easy method of posting to NE that works (click link): Post Photos on NE

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3524
Loc: Colorado
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #338452 - 27/02/20 02:11 PM

Setting the barrel back prior to rechamber/rebore would require moving the forend latch forward the same distance on the barrel which is more work and $$ and then you will still end up with gapping all around the barrel and forend.
I hate to suggest it, but seems like a .350 of some sort with a bigger case than the 318 would be needed to clean everything up.
As mentioned, a 350 Rigby would be something if it can be squeezed into the action and magazine (I think it could especially if you chose a shorter OAL than the original)but maybe a 350 on the 375 Ruger case would get you there even if not a classic British chambering. The 350 Ruger would be pretty much a 35 Newton which is a great cartridge.
This is one of those situations where you either grit your teeth and sell the rifle (which may be at a loss) or decide it will be your custom rifle for the rest of your days and make it into something you can use and get to know so to speak, without worrying about its value to anyone else.
Lesson learned...
I think most of us have a couple rifles like that - I know I sure do!

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1809
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: Huvius]
      #338453 - 27/02/20 02:25 PM

Quote:


The rear sight is Mauser Type B.




From the 1939 Stoeger catalog:







--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Lee440
.224 member


Reged: 06/01/06
Posts: 47
Loc: Texas
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #338459 - 27/02/20 03:23 PM

I have a Vickers of London Mauser 98 sporter that was originally a 318 express but had been bored and rechambered to 35 Whelen. I decided to at least return it to its British origins and rechambered it to 350 Rimless Rigby Mag. It required opening the bolt face, adjusting the feed rails and just a little feed ramp clean up. The mag already had a curved extension added to the front from when it was originally made to fit the long .318 cartridge, with a little mill work I got the clearance needed for the 350. It worked out real well and now the rifle has been returned to its English roots. It is certainly a possibility in this case.

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Mvick
.224 member


Reged: 11/02/20
Posts: 12
Loc: South Dakota
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: tinker]
      #338460 - 27/02/20 04:02 PM

Quote:

Have a barrel blank turned to the diameter needed to use it as a liner - keep the chamber area to be thick enough to chamber it and run it safely as it is - also incorporate the breech end of the blank and half or more of the threads.
Bore out and sleeve the old barrel over this specially turned liner, and make sure the liner threads are times to the couple or so legacy threads of the original barrel "sleeve" so that when it's screwed ba k on the rifle itlands the rib at 12:00

Does that make sense to you?



Wow. Any suggestions for a smith to undertake such a project?

The 333 Jeffery sounds feasible as well. I have tried calling Dan Pedersen and haven’t gotten through.

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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1809
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: Mvick]
      #338463 - 27/02/20 08:05 PM

Quote:


The 333 Jeffery sounds feasible as well.



From the 1939 Stoeger Catalog:





Here's an article and list of spec's from the September 1963 American Rifleman.
The .318 and .333 are near the top of the third page (page 62). Length from base to shoulder could be an issue, as the .333 is shorter at .1754 than the 1.959 shoulder of a .318:







--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: Mvick]
      #338464 - 27/02/20 11:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Have a barrel blank turned to the diameter needed to use it as a liner - keep the chamber area to be thick enough to chamber it and run it safely as it is - also incorporate the breech end of the blank and half or more of the threads.
Bore out and sleeve the old barrel over this specially turned liner, and make sure the liner threads are times to the couple or so legacy threads of the original barrel "sleeve" so that when it's screwed ba k on the rifle itlands the rib at 12:00

Does that make sense to you?



Wow. Any suggestions for a smith to undertake such a project?

The 333 Jeffery sounds feasible as well. I have tried calling Dan Pedersen and haven’t gotten through.




You just need to be prepared to spend.
There are fellows who definitely can do it, but it's a lot of work.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26499
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: tinker]
      #338473 - 28/02/20 03:21 AM

Interesting charts, but incorrect as to the shoulder dia. on the 9.3x62. I now have measured cases from 3 different factory 9.3x62's and the shoulders are not .442",
nor are they another number I've seen posted, they are all .454" and that is fired, so the chambers will quite likely be 1" larger than that.
The bullet dia. listed is also incorrect as it is listed at .363".
Sometimes charts aren't very good for reference when actual diameters are important.

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