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bopi
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Loc: Italy
Peterlongo
      #315817 - 29/04/18 05:38 PM

Ho comprato una carabina Stutzen in cal. 6,5x57, usata. L'armiere dice che è del Peterlongo. Non vi è la firma, solo il n.10635. Si può risalire al fabbricante ? se si, come ?
Grazie. Pietro


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: bopi]
      #315819 - 29/04/18 06:35 PM

Okay ?????

Waidmannsheil.

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Louis
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #315822 - 29/04/18 07:18 PM

Translation for All: I bought a second-hand stuntmen rifle in 6,5x57. The rifle shop I bought it from stated it was manufactured by Peterlongo however their is no mention of the maker on the rifle, only the serial number n.10365. Is there any hope to find the information directly from Peterlongo? Thank you. Petro

Petro. I can read Italian but can't write it well. More information about Peterlongo available at http://www.germanhuntingguns.com/about-the-makers/peterlongo-johann-of-innsbruck-austria/ . The company stopped trading in the 70's I think.

Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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lancaster
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: Louis]
      #315823 - 29/04/18 07:23 PM

Peterlongo made rifles also, iirc the firm starts making colt revolver in the 1860s for the austrain navy under licence, but most of the guns with this name were made in Suhl or Ferlach
pics will help

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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bopi
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: Louis]
      #315824 - 29/04/18 07:48 PM

Sig. Louis
grazie per il Suo intervento. Grazie per il suggerimento. Avevo già contattato il sito " Germanhuntingguns " ma non mi hanno dato ulteriori chiarimenti.

Io chiedo se con il numero di matricola 10635 posso risalire al fabbricante del mio Stutzen, ossia se è da attribuire al Peterlongo oppure ad altri.
Pietro


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bopi
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: bopi]
      #315825 - 29/04/18 07:50 PM


Grazie Sig. Lancaster. Purtroppo l'unico indizio che ho è il numero di matricola 10635.
Pietro


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lancaster
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: bopi]
      #315826 - 29/04/18 10:00 PM

Peterlongo, Johann (Hans the Elder) (1854-1930), manufacturer

Peterlongo Johann (Hans the Elder), manufacturer. * Innsbruck, 1. 1. 1854; † Innsbruck, May 21, 1930. After graduation. the commercial school and military service he join the arms trading and production companies of his father founded 1854 in Innsbruck(in the former Palais Sarnthein) whose branch was located in Ferlach (Carinthia). After the death of his father, Johann P. (1826-98), he took the Thuringian weapons expert R. Mahrholdt in the Fa., Which had become purely commercial because of bad business. Through tough, one-and-a-half decades of development work, the new management of the Tyrolean weapons factory Johann P. was able to gain a respected position worldwide. The Innsbruck factory now specialized more and more in hunting weapons marked by accuracy and elegant decor and until 1914 became the largest and most respected such enterprise of the monarchy. P. weapons were also abroad - u. a. in North and South America as well as in the German and Dutch. Colonies - much sought after. After the end of the First World War P. handed over the Fa to his son Hans P. d. J. (1889-1946), who sold it in 1939 to R. Mahrholdt († 1949).

http://www.biographien.ac.at/oebl/oebl_P/Peterlongo_Johann_1854_1930.xml

to my knowledge there are neither factory papers surviving nor is someone working on a peterlongo data base. its common for such a firm that the serial numbers continuing over decades. so if you have some serial numbers you can see when such a rilfe can be build or not. pics of your rifle will help also especially the proof marks but with a look on the general design you can say its pre ww 1, between the wars or after in many cases.
sometimes its possible that the gun build for Petewrlongo in the trade maybe in Suhl or Ferlach having two serial numbers - the one by the maker and another by the trader. this is not allways logical.
just take a look for other peterlongo guns to get an impression

post ww 2 Mahrholdt Peterlongo combination gun made in Ferlach SN 38306
http://auctions.springer-vienna.com/de/b..._38306_c/l/4082

so after the war maybe in the 1950s they reach 38000




late Mahrhold Petertlongo combination gun SN 83854
http://www.icollector.com/Engraved-Gold-...Rifle_i17959803


johann Peterlongo drilling SN 18219
https://www.lauritz.com/de/auktion/johann-peterlongo-innsbruck-drilling-kal-16-8-7-mm/i3864963/#

looks like between the wars

Marholdt-Peterlongo combination gun SN 31652
http://www.icollector.com/Unique-Austria...hotgun_i9387800


so in 1939 when Mahrholdt take over Peterlongo the firm was maybe in the early 30000

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (29/04/18 10:03 PM)


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Louis
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: lancaster]
      #315829 - 30/04/18 12:17 AM

Bopi. Photos of the rifle, in particular of all markings above and below the woodline, may provide good indications of your stutzen's history. Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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bopi
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: Louis]
      #315864 - 30/04/18 11:46 PM

Grazie per il Vostro interessamento. Appena possibile farò delle foto. Al momento pubblico quella dell'Armeri:http://www.armeriaguglielmo.it/occasione2.html.
Grazie ancora. Pietro


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lancaster
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: bopi]
      #315875 - 01/05/18 03:47 AM

looks excellent



the scope is not original anymore but on the other hand its a still state of the art zeiss that will be enough for most hunting situations

700 euro seems a good price for such a nice rifle. I think its made before 1914 or after 1918,
clearly look alike the Mannlicher Schönauer Stutzen.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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bopi
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: lancaster]
      #315890 - 01/05/18 03:09 PM

Egr. Sig. Lancaster
grazie per l' "excellent". Devo ancora provarlo in poligono. Anche io, quando ho visto la foto,ho pensato al Mannlicher. La canna è ottagonale all'inizio.
Pietro


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Rothhammer1
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: lancaster]
      #315893 - 01/05/18 05:18 PM

Quote:

looks excellent



clearly look alike the Mannlicher Schönauer Stutzen.




It has had a 'duffel cut', as evident in the photo, and the recoil pad has surely been added.

That's a very nice looking engraved 'butterknife' bolt handle which is, of course, in the Mauser location (MS is forward of the rear ring). Nice engraved grip cap, as well.

A lovely firearm, overall.

Mauser Stutzen:


Mannlicher Schoenauer Stutzen:


Both from the 1939 Stoeger catalog (US). Stoeger was the 'sole U.S. importer' of both Mauser and Mannlicher Schoenauer.

Per usinflationcalculator.com , each 1939 US Dollar would be worth $17.95 today.
The 'off the shelf' 7X57 Mauser Stutzen (with single trigger) was $148.00, or $2657.12 today (2203.48 Euro). The 6.5X57 Mauser was not offered in the '39 Stoeger.

More from the '39 Stoeger:




















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lancaster
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #315897 - 01/05/18 08:25 PM

its not a duffle cut, the stock was cut and connetected again to prevent it from making pressure on the barrel. not uncommen at all and I have seen it many times before but just now cant find the pic of another stock with this feature.


La canna del fucile è un'opera tipica di Suhl, prima di un terzo ottagonale e poi rotonda.
Il fucile è stato probabilmente realizzato in Suhl per Peterlongo e poi ha anche il marchio Suhl sotto la canna

buona fortuna con il fucile

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (01/05/18 08:26 PM)


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bopi
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #315898 - 01/05/18 08:30 PM

Egregi Signori
da appassionato, anche se totalmente incompetente, mi fa enormemente piacere verificare l'interesse che questo mio recente acquisto ha suscitato in Voi. Spero di poter dire, un giorno, che è effettivamente un " Peterlongo ".
Pietro


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Rothhammer1
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: lancaster]
      #315901 - 01/05/18 09:24 PM

Quote:

its not a duffle cut, the stock was cut and connetected again to prevent it from making pressure on the barrel.




Not doubting your knowledge, but that seems a rather extreme measure.

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kuduae
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #315906 - 01/05/18 10:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

its not a duffle cut, the stock was cut and connetected again to prevent it from making pressure on the barrel.




Not doubting your knowledge, but that seems a rather extreme measure.




You see this parted for Tension relieving two part foreends quite often on German and Austrian full stocked hunting rifles. A common remedy against barrel tension from foreend warping.


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kuduae
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: kuduae]
      #315924 - 02/05/18 01:09 AM

Looks like a interwar years Suhl made rifle. Mahrholdt/Peterlongo had many of "their" guns made by the Suhl guntrade, especially Schmidt & Habermann Look out for a tiny "Esha" stamp hidden somewhere under barrel. The half-octagon ribbed barrel and the bolthandle treatment are typical Suhl features.
Richard Mahrholdt, 1878 – 1949, had many relations to the German gunmakers in Suhl, Zella – Mehlis and Soemmerda. He was a close friend of the Burgsmuellers in Kreiensen. After Johann Peterlongo passed away in 1898, he took over and ran the company as "Tiroler Waffenfabrik Peterlongo, Richard Mahrholdt & Sohn". From 1918 son Herbert Mahrholdt managed the business. Later grandson Erwin Mahrholdt took over until the shop closed down in the 1970s.


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Rothhammer1
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: kuduae]
      #315941 - 02/05/18 02:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

(from Lancaster) its not a duffle cut, the stock was cut and connetected again to prevent it from making pressure on the barrel.




Not doubting your knowledge, but that seems a rather extreme measure.




(from Kuduae) You see this parted for Tension relieving two part foreends quite often on German and Austrian full stocked hunting rifles. A common remedy against barrel tension from foreend warping.




That is what makes this 'site so valuable - knowledge !

Thank you, gentlemen.

Now,... where to file it?


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bopi
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #316006 - 03/05/18 05:38 PM

Egregi Signori
Non so se la documentazione fotografica sia riuscita. Dalla mia indagine ( da incompetente ) sono emerse le seguenti scritte e/o sigle:
- Sulla canna . cal.6,5x57. GRUPP – LAUFSIAHLD
- Sempre sulla canna il simbolo di una coroncina con lettera N. Ed ancora St.m.G. 10gr.
- La sigla B.U.
- Sulla manetta dell’otturatore la sigla B.U. 10635

Appena capirò come inoltrare le foto fatte, le invierò.
Pietro


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Igorrock
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: bopi]
      #316009 - 03/05/18 06:33 PM

In english:

Dear Sirs
I do not know if the photographic documentation was successful. From my investigation (from incompetente) the following writings and / or acronyms have emerged:
- On the cane. cal.6,5x57. GRUPP - LAUFSIAHLD
- Always on the barrel the symbol of a chaplet with letter N. And again St.m.G. 10gr.
- The abbreviation B.U.
- On the handle of the shutter the abbreviation B.U. 10635

As soon as I understand how to forward the photos, I will send them.
Peter

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Louis
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: Igorrock]
      #316011 - 03/05/18 07:08 PM

Igorrock, thank you for the translation; I think that 'coroncina' also means 'crown' in Italian.

Bopi, while waiting for your photos (you may trip to use www.picr.de to upload them), the markings and proof marks you mentioned may be the following ones:
- 'Coroncina' (crown) + 'N' underneath: German pre-1950 smokeless powder proof.
- '6,5x57': caliber
- 'Grupp Laufiahld' may be 'Krupp Laufstahl': barrel made of Krupp steel.
- 'St.m.G' 10gr': Stahlmantel Geschoss 10 gr' - Rifle proofed with 10 grams steel jacketed bullet; post-1912 marking according to some sources.
- 'B' & 'U' - 'B': 'Beschuss' (proof load fired) & 'U': 'Untersuchung' (inspected for defects).
No Austrian proof marks but only pre-WW2 German ones. Is '10635' your stutzen's serial number?

Regards.

Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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bopi
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: Louis]
      #316030 - 03/05/18 10:29 PM

Egr. Sig. Igorrock
grazie di cuore per la traduzione. Tutto questo mi aiuta, grazie al Suo ed agli interventi degli Altri Esperti, a capire meglio la carabina che ho comprato ed ... ad apprezzarla sempre di più.
Egr. Sig.Louis non saprei darLe una risposta. Il numero 10635, preceduto dalla sigla B.U., è stampato sulla levetta di armamento dell'otturatore.
Pietro
p.s. Appena mio figlio deciderà di aiutarmi, cercherò di postare delle foto.


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Igorrock
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: bopi]
      #316039 - 03/05/18 11:35 PM

"Egr. Mr. Igorrock thank you for the translation. All this helps me, thanks to His and the interventions of the Other Experts, to better understand the rifle that I bought and ... to appreciate it more and more. Egr. Sig.Louis I could not give you an answer. The number 10635, preceded by the initials B.U., is printed on the shutter armature lever. Peter

P.S. As soon as my son decides to help me, I will try to post some photos."


Serial number BU 10635 tells that this rifle has proofed so early as 1905.

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bopi
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: Igorrock]
      #316061 - 04/05/18 03:10 PM

Egr. Sig. Igorrock
quanto Lei afferma, sul numero di serie, potrebbe già circoscrivere la ricerca ed eventualmente rendere concreta la certezza che si tratti di un " Peterlongo " ?
Pietro.
p.s. è inutile che Le dica " GRAZIE " ... per tutto.


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Igorrock
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Re: Peterlongo [Re: bopi]
      #316071 - 04/05/18 05:24 PM

Serial number doesn´t tell anything about "Peterlongo", it just tells the year when this rifle has been proofed. IMO yours Mauser is very nice custom rifle. It would be nice if it has been build in Peterlongo factory but without any visible evidence it´s just a nice quite old Mauser rifle.

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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/


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