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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project
      #284311 - 22/06/16 02:36 PM

I posted this elsewhere and while I am not in the class of most professional gunmakers who post here I am very pleased with how it has turned out.
---------------------------------------------------------
It seems like there may well be a new project in the offing. There has been a trade agreed where I send a Mk 1 Long Lee Enfield action to a feller and he will send me a 1916 Kar 98 small ring Mauser action.


Being a small ring it can be made into a nice light hill rifle and I have decided that a 7x57 in a blind mag stock designed for open sights will be the way to go with this one even though I will possibly look at a QD scope as well. Up to this point I have sort of adapted my stock pattern to lower the comb at the nose to get down for the aperture sights but with the heel at the same drop it means a slightly unconventional head position on the stock.
It may well be a few weeks before the action arrives but I thought to get the stock design sorted now and thought that I might do a trial one first to get the blind mag area understood before I attack a nice piece of walnut.
To that end I drew out the plan and cut both a pattern and a framed pattern then a trial stock from a piece of Rimu and thought that it may be of interest to look at how I draw out the pattern.


--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

Edited by VonGruff (22/06/16 02:39 PM)


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VonGruff
.400 member


Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284312 - 22/06/16 02:38 PM

I used a piece of thin board that is 8 1/2 in deep for the framed pattern so I could get all my measurements noted down.

I started by marking a line the width of my long steel rule (1 1/8) parallel to the top so that when I cut out the interior there is enough strength left outside it to hold it all together. This line is the stock top line and all measurements noted are down from this line. Point A is marked in along this top line and to find point A --- I made my stock to have a 13 3/8 L O P so point A is 14 1/2 in from the butt end of the board. Adjust as necessary for your own desired L O P. I will deal with the forestock first.



From point A, square a line down to the bottom of the board as this is the face of the trigger and where all the measurements go from. From point A mark down the line 2 3/16 as this is the depth of the stock at this point. Measure toward the forend tip 15 1/2 inches and square a line down with a point marked in an 1 1/4 down from the top line. You can now draw a line from this point back through the first point measured down from point A to give you the forestock length and shape.


For the butt end I start with the grip curve so to get there I measure back toward the butt from point A 3 7/8 then square down from there. Measure down that line 4 1/4 and mark the spot. ( call it B) Next comes the grip curve and this calls for a bit of try and adjust. Set you calipers for 4 1/8 as this is the radius for the curve and it requires the curve to go through the point B and back into the line we drew back from the forend tip to intersect where the center of of the trigger curve will be directly down from point A. Then you can use your square and mark in the grip cap line back toward the heel. My intersection point is 14 7/8 back along the top line from point A. Mark 1 3/4 for the grip cap length.
Next comes the comb nose and I mark 4 1/2 back from point A and go down 3/4. This is where the comb nose starts to curve down toward the top of the wrist. Mark back from point A along the top line 13 5/8 and down 1 3/4 to the heel and now you can draw in the comb line. For myself I marked down with a 4 degree negative pitch and drew in the curve for the checkered steel butt plate. If you need a longer L O P I would stoll draw in the drop a heel at the 13 5/8 mark and continue the comb line till you reached your desired L O P.
I am going to grind back the steel plate to give me a length of 4 7/8 so from that point I can draw in the toe line of the butt from the tip of the butt plate to the 1 3/4 mark on the grip cap line.
It will be noted that this line (continued) is above the grip curve by 3/16 - 1/4 but this all helps to lighten the appearance of the stock.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
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Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284313 - 22/06/16 02:40 PM

I made a start on the trial blind mag stock today. I am going to use a altered military trigger where the finger piece is adjusted to the rear by about a 1/4 to bring it closer to the rear of the trigger bow so I took the one off my other 7x57 so I could get the placement of the action on the blank.
Center of the trigger face is the datum point so measuring back to the rear stock screw centre is the first move

Then the front stock screw can be marked in

From these two points the trigger clearance slot can be done and the action sat into the blank on the headless screws to mark in the other data points

And a while later it is starting to settle into the wood.


--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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VonGruff
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Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284314 - 22/06/16 02:41 PM

Have the action settled into the wood. I had the stock for my DWM set on the bench as a visual guide and for measurement checks.



I made a start on the jig to allow the use of the router to do the blind mag. I cut a block to fit into the recoil lug and fixed a slow wedge shaped piece to it so the top of the guide was parallel to the bottom of the stock.
Careful measuring of the internal mag dimensions and allowing for the guide collar on the router base required a 1/2 inch over the required size so I should get the correct finished size. I will try it tomorrow on a scrap piece first then one the practice stock. Going to be an interesting trial.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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VonGruff
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Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284315 - 22/06/16 02:42 PM

have been able to get the practice inlet done after a couple of alterations to the jig and it holds four down and feeds flawlessly. Then the barrel turned up that had been part of the trade for the action. It was a stepped barrel that I had intended to have the steps machined off but it turned out to be a large ring barrel so wouldnt fit the small ring action without turning the thread off and rethreading for the small ring. As it was just 20 1/4 in long, this coupled with the machining needed for the step removal and the rethreading put it out of contention for use so in thinkingnthrough the possibilities I got onto one of the short chambered 6.5x55 barrels from Brownells which I will have shortened a little and rechambered for the 6.5x57.
I got a set of Hornady New Dimension dies in 6.5x57 from Ebay for under US$58 so things are moving in the right direction again.
Frank has been exceptionally generous and sent me a lovely blank to build this one on



--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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VonGruff
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Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284316 - 22/06/16 02:44 PM

This is the trial inlet on the practice stock. Initially I made the whole well the same depth but then put a fillet in and reset the jig so I could cut the spring end recess. I make no apologies for the rather rough look to the wood but the rimu is not a suitable stockwood as it has a fiberous texture and tears a little rather than clean cutting like walnut. It was getting the mag well sorted that was important rather than a fanvy finish.


--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284317 - 22/06/16 02:44 PM

I made a sighting decision over night (well between 2.30am and 5.30am it became clear) and will use a universal front ramp from NECG
http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/Gun_Services/item_info.asp?Brand_id=4237&ST=Basic Front Ramp - Rounded#.VujgSuRJnIU
with the high sourdough blade that I can regulate to suit. http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/Gun_Services/item_info.asp?Brand_id=4214&ST=Sourdough Sight for Masterpiece & Classic Banded Ramp#.VujgneRJnIU

I will not use a barrel mounted rear sight but will fit the Talley low bases http://www.talleymanufacturing.com/Produ...Small-Ring.aspx
with the Talley aperture sight http://www.talleymanufacturing.com/Products/Scope-Ring-Bases-Peep-Sight/Peep-Sight.aspx
Initial shooting will all be done with the aperture sight but a set of QD rings will be in its future with a Leupold M8 6 power fixed scope.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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VonGruff
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Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284318 - 22/06/16 02:45 PM

This superb piece of wood turned up this morning and I couldn't wait to get it to the shed and plane off one side to straighten and flatten it then run it through the thicknesser to see what was hiding under the rough sawn surface.
I was more than plesantly surprised to see the wonderfull colours emergs with the grain structure being swirls and fiddleback with a marblecake apearance. It is the most even on both side of any blank I have seen and would easily sit amongst exibition grade blanks in any walnut supplier.
A very big thank you to Frank for this one.




--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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VonGruff
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284319 - 22/06/16 02:48 PM

As most who undertake these sort of builds will know there is a WHOLE LOT OF PIC GATHERING that goes on with the end result being that many are deleted as the ideas refine themselves and the decision gets made as to the finished apearance that I want to aim for is made. First and formost I would like to to look similar to Terry's rifle and even though it is a CZ Mini Mauser in 223 I think the style will translate over to my Erfurt actioned 6.5x57. This is the overall look I am going for with buffalo horn tip and grip cap, the shadowline pancake cheekpiece off a 3/16 cast to the butt with an aditional 1/8 in cant to the butt plate which will be a checkered steel curved plate.

The bolt release will be shelved but will not have the lowered portion continue through the action rails


With this reshaping of the tang the grip will be able to slim up over the top and add to the svelte feel I am looking for.

Have got a Tally bolt handle coming and it will be welded on so that there will not need to be a scollop ground out for a low scope rings something like this one here.


So with my flag nailed to the mast and my colours showing I will have to now try and get as close to this ideal as I can manage.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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xausa
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284339 - 23/06/16 01:03 AM

Congratulations, Von Gruff!

This represents a well planned and executed project. Hats off!

This is my small ring (Danzig, I believe) 6.5X57. The rifle is more or less the way it was when I acquired it. I added the ramp front sight, mainly for cosmetic reasons, and the Buehler base and rings with the Lyman Alaskan scope. I probably need to treat it to a nice checkering job. Even without the checkering, it has proven to be deadly on deer.



Edited by xausa (23/06/16 01:05 AM)


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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
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Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: xausa]
      #284345 - 23/06/16 05:14 AM

Are you handloading for yours??
QL is telling me I can run the 139gn bullet to 2800fps (H4350) and the 120gn to 2950fps (H414) with a 57k psi redline so there is plenty of performance to tap into.

This was posted on another forum and the calculation of bar to psi gives me the 57kpsi that I used for the QL data


--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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metal
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284354 - 23/06/16 08:21 AM

Von Gruff, isn't that a small ring, large thread action? You mentioned that you ordered a small ring barrel.
Cheers,
Metal.


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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
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Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: metal]
      #284361 - 23/06/16 08:55 AM

A large ring barrel wouldn't go near the threads and with measurement it showed to be a small ring thread or so the GS said. It ended up being irrelevant anyway as getting the new barrel made this an accademic question for me. The new 6.5x55 barrel was a large ring but as I had to have a 1/2 inch cut off the chamber end to rechamber for the 6.5x57 it was rethreaded to suit my action.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

Edited by VonGruff (23/06/16 08:59 AM)


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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
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Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284363 - 23/06/16 09:01 AM

Another instalment

Made a start on the action inlet today. I didn't profile the top of the butt section so I would have a flat surface to run the hand router on. That gets done after the primary inlet is done down to the action flat
The underside is cut paralell to the top for the drilling of holes etc. As mentioned in drawing up the stock pattern the face of the trigger is marked in first (from the pattern) and the screw holes can be plotted from there. The grain has a lot of twists and turns so the inet is time for real concentration with grain ends going in all sorts of directions.

When the action flat depth has been reached the butt portion is run through the bandsaw to make the inlet of the tang easier.
Have still got nearly an 1/8 in to go but it is getting there and will do for today.


Then with the action inlet done and the trigger slot cut in. Next in line will be the blind mag well.


--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

Edited by VonGruff (23/06/16 09:02 AM)


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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284364 - 23/06/16 09:03 AM

The blind mag well has been done and turned out as well as I could have hoped for.
This is the slow wedge so that when I am routing it down I know that the well will be paralell to the bottom of the stock.


You can see the block that locates into the recoil lug area


There needs to be a means of holding the guide plate to the slow wedge so a length of 2x1 1/2 (cramping blocks) along each side has a notch cut in it to take the ends of the locating block. The top plate was screwed to these cramping blocks and with the notches and screw locating points I can be sure it will all go back to the same configuration on any stock I care to do the same thing to.



The router guide area cut into the top plate was cut undersize at first and with the stock in the vise held by the cramping blocks I could take the top plate off and it would go back into the same place again so I could gradually open up the guide area to leave the correct size well.




--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

Edited by VonGruff (23/06/16 09:04 AM)


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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284365 - 23/06/16 09:07 AM

When I got to the shed this morning I fitted the bolt top and chiseled, filed, and sanded it into position then cleared over the top of the tang and left it for now.
Then it was onto the butt plate.


I marked in the center of the butt and then marked in for a 3/16 cast plus another 1/8 for cant



With the butt plate fitted like this the mount to shoulder will be enhanced and I will have the necesary wood to do the cheek piece.


--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

Edited by VonGruff (23/06/16 09:08 AM)


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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
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Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284366 - 23/06/16 09:10 AM

With that done I turned to the grip cap as that will demarcate the wrist size for the shaping of the butt stock.
With a piece of buff horn trimmed to shape (1 3/4x1 1/4) for a slim grip


a rebate was filed round the edge



and then it was radiused over the top



after which a sand to clean off the file marks.



The holes were drilled for the 2 little brass dowles and it was epoxied into place.


--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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xausa
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284367 - 23/06/16 09:21 AM

I generally go for moderate loads while hand loading. My copy of Wiederladen shown 800 mps (2625 fps) at maximum pressure of 3900 bar with a 140 grain Speer bullet and 39.7 grains of Vihtavuori N140 powder.It also shows 865 mps (2838 fps) with a Swift 120 grain bullet and 45 grains of Vihtavuori 550 powder with maximum pressure. I think I could live with either of those loads.

Of course 3900 bar (56564.72 psi) is not a high pressure by modern standards, and could probably be safely exceeded. I don't think I want to try it with a WW I era action, however.


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VonGruff
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: xausa]
      #284369 - 23/06/16 12:44 PM

I will run through the data when doing a ladder test and look for accuracy nodes. Not after ragged edge velocity but do want to be able to get what is on the table within the limits.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

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dok
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284372 - 23/06/16 08:21 PM

Fantastic stuff VonGruff. Very interesting to see it coming together.

--------------------
DOK


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VonGruff
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Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: dok]
      #284475 - 25/06/16 02:18 PM

With the grip cap epoxied in place the stock was run through the bandsaw but just from the tang back so the shaping of the butt and cheekpiece was about all I can do untill the barrel arrives.

The cheekpiece is marked arround with a chisel but the multiple grain directions means that more care is taken with wood removal with this blank than any other one I have ever worked with.

Once the lines are marked in I found that files were the ony safe way to get things shaped without the risk of having the short grain chip out.

Having got the general shape of what will be the shadowline filed in I will leave it like this un till the final finish shaping is done so the fine edge of what will be the actual cheekpiece is not damaged.

Getting the off side done was much easier so this is how it will have to sit for the time being.


--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
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Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284476 - 25/06/16 02:19 PM

I decided to cut the two triggers today cut today and ready for when the GS can do the micro weld.



Both finger pieces are cut off so that when they are back together the fingerpiece is a 1/4 closer to the rear of the guard and much better visualy (my opinion) It requires the TG to have a waist filed into it but this all enhances the feel.





--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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VonGruff
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284477 - 25/06/16 02:19 PM

this is what it will look like when done as I did the same thing for my DWM 7x57



after that was done I got the shadowline roughed in on the cheekpiece


--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

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VonGruff
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284478 - 25/06/16 02:20 PM

I had a bit ofl success with the barrel band sling eye. I had a few of the Lee Enfield inner bands that looked remarkedly like a good start to barrel band sling eye so I deceded to see what it would lok like with a bit of alteration.
I found a long threaded piece that fit the LE inner band thread and with it screwed right in to touch the opposite side of the band it held tight, so I could hold it in the drill press. Then with a file, I reduced the dia of the locating screw portion to the dia of the sling stud from TOTW. I also managed to hold this in the drill press on the tapered screw threads and with a small 3 corner file was able to reduce the shank to the o/d of the screw (still leaving a shoulder to go against the band locating screw area) and will get it threaded to go into the band although I may shorten the locating screw portion to the shortest that will allow the swiver to rotate without impacting the barrel. Was probably about 2 1/2 hrs in it so not a bad way to save sending money off the NECG.

Yhe i/d of the band is almost right but these bands have 4 little ridges to facilitate fitting to the LE barrels and with a little fitting it will be move up the barrel for another few inches till it ends up half way between the end of the forestock and the muzzle.


--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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VonGruff
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284479 - 25/06/16 02:22 PM

Have made a decision on the trigger guard. I had originally thought to use a SxS shotgun styled guard but will use the mauser bottom metal and cimply cut the mag box off it, continue the bow curve round to where it meets the base that will be under the stockwood and cut it square from there. It will require a little weld to fill what is left of the sling attachment hole but the anchor screw for the rear action screw will need filling anyway so not a big deal. I will fit a nut into the under channel so an anchor screw can be drilled down through the stock and locate to hold the front of the guard.
It will get a waist on the bow so that is another part decided on that will get attended to in the days to come.



--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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VonGruff
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284480 - 25/06/16 02:22 PM

Got the mag box cut off the bottom metal and shaped as intended. I thought I was going to have to weld some of the sling hole but when I filed the bow to the desired shape it dissapared so that is one thing to tick off the list and then it was simple matter to inlet it into the stock. I fitted the altered trigger from my 7x57 so I could comfirm it was all going to work untill I can get the two into one welded for this rifle. I still have to file the slot in the trigger bow base to allow the fingerpiece to travel to the rear further because of the change in its position.


--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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VonGruff
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284481 - 25/06/16 02:24 PM

A little more got done after lunch with the tang re-shaped



The waist filed into the trigger bow



and with the t/g inlet down to depth, I could then refine the wrist shape and start to get some slimness into it. I wont go any further untill the barrel is inlet and I can shape the forestock and then it will be a simple case of joining the forestock to the wrist in a nice continuous radiused easy to handle shape



--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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VonGruff
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284482 - 25/06/16 02:30 PM

I decided to changes thing a little as I had intended to lengthen the trigger when the two halves were welded back together as the bottom line of the stock is .185 deeper than ordinarily it would be with the standard bottom metal so I could have the mag capacity in the blind mag without compromising the strength of the remaining wood. There is about 3/16 left but this was making the wrist a little beefier than I like. It was near 6 inches in cicumference which is way to big for the style of rifle I envisage. The answer was to raise the trigger bow up so the trigger length would be standard and the wrist could be made much smaller and to do that I thought I would do the same as they do when an extended magazine is made. It can be subtle like this 350 Rigby mag which has been a real inspiration in many ways (credit to XAUSA for this one)

or this Hartmann & Weiss

or over the top like this one

I was thinking of the subtle end of the spectrum and set the trigger bow in an extra .185 which leaves the trigger length the same length and will preserves the stockwood thickness under the mag well.
Have it roughed into shape and was able to reduce the wrist circumference to 5 5/16 but should get down to under 5 inches when the finish shaping is done which will have to wait untill the barrel gets installed and the forestock shaped. This is how it sits for now.


Incidentally, the drop box magazine has been made by cutting the standard box and welding it further down the trigger bow face which may entail extending the top edges if too much drop is required. (If the available funds dont run to one of the expensive off the shelf units.)


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Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284483 - 25/06/16 02:31 PM

I got the barrel band done this morning. Threaded to sling stud shaft that I filed down in the drill press the other day and shortened the band nut so it would be a nice compact unit. Because I couldnt thread right up to the shoulder I countersunk the nut enough to get a good mating surface. This should be stronger than any soldered joint with about 4 threads to hold it in to the band nut.



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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284484 - 25/06/16 02:32 PM

Next was a trip through to the GS to drop off the parts for his attention.
He will shorten the 6.5x55 barrel enough so he can rechamber for the 6.5x57 with his match reamer then rethread for my action. He is going to reprofile the chamber end out for a few inches to give it a more pleasing appearance as well.
Change the bolt handle, D&T for the Tally bases and front sight, and weld up the trigger pieces and the lock screw hole on the TG.
It could be a while till he gets it done so I will have to controll the impaitence till I get his call.
I called into see a friend and picked up a partial precarve mannlicher stock and will finish it for a G33-40 with a number of changes. The biggest being the grip end being changed to a Prince of Wales grip and the cheekpiece and butt end will get a major reshape. Incidenty this B/A is military configuration and will stay that way.

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Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

Edited by VonGruff (25/06/16 02:37 PM)


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HunterGunner
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284493 - 25/06/16 10:04 PM

Looking great Von! Always cool to see what you've been up to.

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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: HunterGunner]
      #284512 - 26/06/16 02:26 AM

Just question; why 6,5x57 instead of 6,5x55 ?

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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: Igorrock]
      #284517 - 26/06/16 07:42 AM

Quote:

Just question; why 6,5x57 instead of 6,5x55 ?




A couple of reasons with the main one being that I wanted it. The 6.5x57 was more in tune with my preference for the x57 case and would be a good companion for my 7x57. Cases were another consideration as I can make cases from any of the x57 or 06 based cases even though I got a bag of headstamped 6.5x57 cases. Getting a set of Dies for almost givaway price didn't hurt its desirability either.
In the end, when it came down to it, I saw this rifle as being a bit special for me given that the action and blank came from friends so it deserved something a little out of the ordinary run of cartridges to compliment it and for the type of hunting I do now the 6.5x57 is right up there in the multipurpose capability. I know the x55 would do the same thing but then so would a host of other cartridges which I also discounted as I have a bit of a fixation on the x57 case with it being the grandaddy of all the modern cartridges and about perfect for a multitude of bore sizes and bullet weights while the 6.5x55 is a bit of an orphan with nothing outside of its primary designation ever having been done with it.

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Von Gruff.

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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284537 - 26/06/16 06:56 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Lookin Good Von Gruff, well done and so true!

Regards
Homer

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Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: Homer]
      #284547 - 27/06/16 03:30 AM

Thanks for yours answer, Von Gruff. I have one pre-WWII Mannlicher Schönauer in 6,5x57 so I know that caliber quite well. It seems that here in Europe 6,5x55 has come so popular that 6,5x57 is now kind of marginal caliber. Only S&B and RWS make factory ammo for it.

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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: Igorrock]
      #284562 - 27/06/16 07:50 AM

Home from the gunsmith with the bits done that needed to be done so I can finish the stockwork. It will go back afterward for the polish and blue and the cartridge engraved on the barrel. Very pleased with it and couldn;t help but to sit it into the wood as far as no barrel channel would allow just to see it in one piece---sort of.



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Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284563 - 27/06/16 07:51 AM

It was a very heavy frost this morning and really a bit cold to be in the unheated shed but having waited to get the B/A back I was anxious to get the barrel inlet done so after a quick breakfast I made a start.
A preliminary track was made so I could sit the B/A in place and mark the lines in

And half the barrel dia marked n the end to get the depth of the inlet at this point


So with a bit of smoke to guide me I made a start. Having said that this piece of wood has fiddleback so I couldn't use a chisel accross the grain and waves along the chanel so I couldn't use gouges or even my barrel end scrapers along the channel without it chipping the grain out (you can see this in the previous two pics) so it was a case of 60 grip emery round various round dowels to remove the wood without damage to the finish lines I neede to keep sharp.

It took 6 hours to get it done but eventually it all settled into place

After that I got the piece of horn doweled into place and cramped up for the night.


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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284564 - 27/06/16 07:53 AM

Got the horn tip inlet this morning and have run the forend through the bandsaw so it is ready for the shaping process now. This was a piece of horn I didn't think I would be able to use because of the slight curve and the end of the interior hollow of the horn which made it necessary to set it to one side that in itself threatened the runout through the curve. The interior hole was larger than the barrel diameters I had been using on other rifles but this one is just slightly heavier at the point where it meets the tip and I also shortened the wood part by another 1/4 inch so that with carefull placement it was able to be used.




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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284565 - 27/06/16 07:54 AM

Have finished for the day and will not be ble to get back to it for a few days now but quite pleased with how it has shaped up. It has fulfilled the original design concept I had and at 6lb 9oz with the Talley aperture sight installed but without ammo it is going to be a nice fast handling hill rifle. The balance pount is a 1/4 in behind the front action screw so it will be very pointable with a very quick mount. The stock wood has more than lived up to what it promised in the blank with really nice colours with the marble cake and fiddleback really showing through now.






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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284567 - 27/06/16 09:53 AM

Well done, Gruff.

--------------------
Daryl


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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: DarylS]
      #284609 - 28/06/16 10:41 AM


The last few days have seen the stock refined and reshaped a couple of times. It has been sanded through 100, 150, 220, and 360 grits then wetted and 360 sanded twice and the same with 600 grit paper so it is ready for the finish now and that will start with about 4-5 coats of 75/25 turps/spar varnish and then a couple of 50/50 coats (sanded with 600grit paper between coats) to seal the surface from the inside. The finish will be straight tung oil for as many coats as it takes to get it right then a rub off with rottenstone and it should be good to go.

I am waiting for a new extended left side flag safety to arrive so all the metalwork can go back to the GS fitting, getting the cartridge engraved on the barrel and the blueing done. Fortunately we are in mid winter and while I look forward to having it completed, the weather is not condusive to extended testing of loads etc. I will probably get the brass fireformed and leave the load testing for better conditions, besides which the high country I like to hunt is not excessible till about november anyway so I have time to find a load it likes with a 139gn privi partisan and the 120gn TTSX. QL is telling me I can run the 139gn bullet to 2800fps (H4350) and the 120gn to 2950fps (H414) with a 57k psi redline so ther is plenty of performance to tap into.

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Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284610 - 28/06/16 10:41 AM

I have the rifle at a sgate where I can get some pics with the intention of showing just how nice this piece of wood really is. Still in the white and will be till the extended flag safety and the Talley qd rings arrive then it can go back to the GS for polish and blue.By then the canvas sling on order from South Africa should be here and the rifle will be ready for some amunition trials.
It is near mid winter here and so these pics had to be taken on the porch with the weak sunlight offering little in the way of good light (along with my old cell ph). Whern it is all finished I will get a friend with a decent camera to try for better pics but in the meantime this is what I can post.










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Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284611 - 28/06/16 10:42 AM





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Von Gruff.

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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284612 - 28/06/16 10:43 AM

I got the left side extended flag safety and the talley qd rings in the mail this morning so mounted the scope to see how it looked. I had intended to fit a m8 6x Leupold but there was none available here so I bought a 3-9 Nikon instead. I have a few other Nikons and like them a lot and at just 13 oz the complete package weighs in at 7 1/2 lb so still a portable hill rifle. Mostly it will be hunted with the aperture installed and the scope in a carry bag. I can cycle the bolt with the lens covers on with good clearance, so getting the bolt fitted the way I did has worked a treat. It still has the oberndorf look I wanted but allows for the lowest Talley rings and no scollop out of the bolt handle to ugly things up..



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Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

Edited by VonGruff (28/06/16 10:52 AM)


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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284613 - 28/06/16 10:48 AM

At the moment the metalwork is away at the gunsmiths for blueing so expect it back in a couple of weeks.

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Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

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redoak
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284704 - 30/06/16 12:40 AM

Great lines and really nice work.

From the early photos I thought that your XXX Claro blank might be too flashy for this project, but it works, and it works very well.

How much does your trim little rifle weigh?


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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: redoak]
      #284705 - 30/06/16 01:01 AM

No checkering? That is a nice piece of wood.

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Daryl


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VonGruff
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: redoak]
      #284714 - 30/06/16 05:07 AM

Quote:

Great lines and really nice work.

From the early photos I thought that your XXX Claro blank might be too flashy for this project, but it works, and it works very well.

How much does your trim little rifle weigh?





With the Tally peep sight installed it is 6lb 9oz and 7 1/2 lb with the scope on board


I hadn't been sure or the exact variety of walnut but you mentioning Claro made me remember this piece from this link. http://www.doublegunshop.com/phiatt.htm
Claro walnut is American black walnut grown in the West. Claro grows faster and generally comes from larger trees than its Eastern cousin. This is an advantage as the better wood generally is added on after a tree reaches three feet in diameter. Larger trees also yield wood with thicker feathers which means less "one-sided" gunstocks. Claro is also more colorful than its Eastern cousin with more brilliant reds/yellows/greens/purples. Sometimes it is less dense than its eastern cousin. Sometimes it is MORE dense than its Eastern cousin. Again, judge each piece individually. As a general rule, seedling trees are more dense than their grafted counterparts. English walnut is often grafted upon Claro rootstock and the resulting gunstocks that exhibit the best properties of each are amongst the most magnificent of all gunstocks.


--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

Edited by VonGruff (30/06/16 05:14 AM)


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93x64mm
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: VonGruff]
      #284715 - 30/06/16 05:55 AM

Beautiful piece of timber there VG!
Done a marvellous job to date, lucky to fit the piece of horn on weren't you - only by a whisker.
Will be a cracker when you take to the hills, going after reds this time or tahr?
93x64mm


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: 93x64mm]
      #284719 - 30/06/16 06:17 AM

Fantastic work, very impressive looking rifle. Are you going to checker it ? Great caliber as well.

Waidmannsheil.

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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #284723 - 30/06/16 07:09 AM

Now that you mention it, Gruff- this stock is probably an English/Claro hybrid, what I've heard referred to, as California English.



Both sides pretty much evenly 'patterned'.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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VonGruff
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #284727 - 30/06/16 10:33 AM

That is quite a striking piece of walnut Daryl.

Checkering is not someting I have been able to master and the cost to get someone else here to do it is much higher than I am willing to meet. I have never had any trouble with lack of grip on a propperly shaped stock so that consideration was off the table and having one rifle that had checkering damage from a short trip to the range in a padded carry bag that marred an otherwise nlemish free stock, made me less likely to want it on this one (or any of the other rifles I have built for myself over the years).

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Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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redoak
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: DarylS]
      #284751 - 01/07/16 03:49 AM

Daryl,

Your stock looks like exceptionally nice Claro walnut to me.

And I thought the Claro/English hybrid was called Bastogne...


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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: redoak]
      #284801 - 03/07/16 12:20 PM

That, sir, is sweet! You have every reason to be proud!

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TexasJohn
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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #297861 - 26/03/17 10:57 PM

I just re-visited this thread. Great piece for the person thinking to try a stocking project. I did not want it to get past the 1 year search limit, so I am "bringing it back"

VonGruff, did you have the stock checkered?

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Re: a 1916 Erfurt Kar 98a 6.5x57 project [Re: TexasJohn]
      #297933 - 27/03/17 03:45 PM

No checkering John, but have blooded it quite satisfactorily on a mob of goats and it lived up to my expectations and more. I have tried checkering but found it to be one of the things that I have to leave to others and as I have never had any problems with grip on an uncheckered stock, I am unlikely to have it done any time soon. I apreciate the visual of checkering but have other things to spend to $500+ on that having it done would cost.

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Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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