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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2105
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
American .323" bullets
      #283075 - 29/05/16 01:54 PM

Well I made myself an 8MM Mauser to hunt with, I have owned a few in the past but never loaded my own ammo for hunting so now I am going to start.

Using American made bullets for deer and elk, (much easier to get in the USA) I was wondering if any of you folks could make recommendations. I want a bullet that will open up some, but hold together well enough to give me exits on large elk even if I hit some bone.
So.......what do you guys think? Fire away

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Homer
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Re: American .323" bullets [Re: szihn]
      #283096 - 30/05/16 09:31 AM

G'Day Fella's,

Szihn, I'm not sure of their web address but Huntington Die Specialties (in CA),should be able to supply you with various options, including the great Australian made www.woodleighbullets.com.au .

Hope that helps

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: American .323" bullets [Re: Homer]
      #283100 - 30/05/16 02:00 PM

Hornady 195gr. Interlocks will work well Steve - Norma 203 - I think that is Reloader #15 - will get them up 2,510fps- Pacific lists 47.0gr. max. (Pacific calls there 196gr. to 198gr.)Starting load of 43.5gr. at 2,200fps.

If you could find some of the Speer 225gr. IMR4350, 54.0gr. max load at 2,440fps. 49.0gr. starting load at 2,150fps.
The 4350 load with that 225gr. Speer worked well for a friend of mine on a charging grizzly. The third shot into the chest(under the head) turned it and 4th through both shoulders stopped it.

These are from an old Pacific book - stating due to the greater expansion ratio of the8x57, over the '06, the slightly lower capacity 8x57 will deliver the same speeds with the same weight bullets as the '06.

Another friend of mine has used the 187gr. Rem. in his 8x68s and said it was a pretty good bullet as well.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: American .323" bullets [Re: szihn]
      #283129 - 31/05/16 09:16 AM

Swift makes two for the 8MM...A-Frames--have used them on lots of elk..works great..as you stated, opens some but will blow through the other side--I blew threw the side of a cape buffalo with a .416 ..impressive in my experiences..

http://www.swiftbullets.com/products-s/1819.htm

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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brosteve
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Re: American .323" bullets [Re: Ripp]
      #283136 - 31/05/16 01:20 PM

Have had great accuracy with 41gr working up to 44gr IMR 4895 and 200gr bullets of various makers--Nosler partitions, barnes old school copper, don't remember the others, but the Swift A Frame is one of the all time greats, and you will need all the premium bullet you can get for elk, as shots are not always ideal. I would pick my shots. Good luck! Oh!! ps...would also big time want to check out any offerings in Barnes X and Hornady X knockoffs by all means.

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2105
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: American .323" bullets [Re: brosteve]
      #283148 - 01/06/16 01:42 AM

I have some 170 gr Hornady SSTs but as I said, I have no experience yet with the 8 on elk.
At .323 and 170 grains I am sure even a poorly designed bullet would be OK on deer or Pronghorns, but elk are big and sometimes pretty tough, and they have big hard bones. I sectioned one of these bullets and the jacket looks pretty thin.

So I am specifically asking for advice on the 8MM Mauser on elk if any one has experience. Elk or any other game of 600 pounds or more.
I have read some posts saying such-and-such .323" bullet was made for the 8MM Magnum so it won't expand on game from the 8X57, but every one of them has been written from a standpoint of theory. So I am asking for real-world experience if any of you kind folks can tell me

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DarylS
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Re: American .323" bullets [Re: szihn]
      #283150 - 01/06/16 01:48 AM

Steve - the SST's are usually designed for quick expansion. I wouldn't use them on elk or moose, but, like you said, probably OK on deer and stink-goats.
My Pacific book lists the 170's with IMR Powders, 4895, 4064 and 4320 as maxed at 51.0gr. and running 2,720fps to 2,745fps.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: American .323" bullets [Re: szihn]
      #283185 - 01/06/16 06:48 AM

Quote:

I have some 170 gr Hornady SSTs but as I said, I have no experience yet with the 8 on elk.
At .323 and 170 grains I am sure even a poorly designed bullet would be OK on deer or Pronghorns, but elk are big and sometimes pretty tough, and they have big hard bones. I sectioned one of these bullets and the jacket looks pretty thin.

So I am specifically asking for advice on the 8MM Mauser on elk if any one has experience. Elk or any other game of 600 pounds or more.
I have read some posts saying such-and-such .323" bullet was made for the 8MM Magnum so it won't expand on game from the 8X57, but every one of them has been written from a standpoint of theory. So I am asking for real-world experience if any of you kind folks can tell me



I do NOT but I remember reading on more than one occassion of Boddington really liking the 8mm and using it on elk and other game--might want to google and see what you find. I am sure someone on here will have used it. At least one would think.

Good luck

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: American .323" bullets [Re: Ripp]
      #283189 - 01/06/16 07:21 AM

Never hunted elk or used the 8x57 and it is not an American bullet but Woodleigh tests its bullets with a range of velocities recommended as being effective.

The 8mm 196 gn RNSP looks like their bullet designed for the 8x57mm JS.

http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/bullet-lists/traditional/264q-333q

There would be bullets in the range of 170 gn to 200 gn designed for the 8x57

Also European bullets for moose, red stag and boar in the 8x57 would also probably be suitable. The cartridge is still popular in Europe including driven game.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Rolf
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Loc: Germany, Bavaria
Re: American .323" bullets [Re: NitroX]
      #284967 - 08/07/16 10:21 PM

Hello Steve,

what do you think about the 200grs Nosler Partition or the 200grs Nosler Accubond?

I used the 180grs Nosler Ballistic Tip in a 8x57 IS rifle (60cm barrel) on roe deer and it opens up in this tiny animal (40 lbs dressed). So I would regard the Ballistic Tip as too fragile for elk.

As partition and Accubond are of tougher construction and heavier, I would expect them to be quite close to "what the doctor ordered".


best regards
Rolf

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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2105
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: American .323" bullets [Re: Rolf]
      #284968 - 09/07/16 12:13 AM

Hi Rolf
Good to hear from you. I am eating elk steak and eggs for breakfast today. What did you have?
(I remind you---- I will cook such things for you and your family if you come visit)

I believe you may be correct. The SST 170 grain bullets I have loaded now are very accurate and I even killed a running fox last week with one. It was going from right to left at 185 yards and I killed it with one shot. These bullets shoot about 1 MOA and fly fairly flat, but the jackets seem a bit thin. But at the velocities I am shooting them they may be OK of elk. I don't really know. I am sure the Nosler Accubond and Partitions will be fine. But they are 30 grains heavier and so I will have to learn all new holdovers if I change. May not be a problem in the trees as the average shot is under 100 yards, but in the open planes or rolling hills a 300 or even 400 yard shot is not uncommon.

I got 2 boxes of 200 grain Speer bullets. I may buy some 200 Grain Nosler Partitions and see if one load of powder will produce equal accuracy with both the Speer and the Nosler. if it does I then can buy more Speer bullets for practice and only 1-2 boxes of Partitions will last the rest of my life for hunting.

I made myself 2 new rifles last year and I think I need to make meat with them both. The one is the 8MM Mauser I am speaking of here. it is full stocked and has a short barrel, stocked in French Walnut, it is a real classic with side panels and ring mounts for a braided leather sling.
It looks very much like some of the beautiful sporting rifles that came from Germany in the 30s

The other one is a classic style on a GEW Mauser opened up to a 300 H&H. 27" long barrel with globe front sight and express sights in the rear zeroed at 200, 300 and 400 yards, as well as a Leupold scope. I have shot this rifle with 200 grain Noslers and it shoots very well. The best I have done at 100 yards so far is 5/8" for 4 shots.

I have only one license for a bull elk and one for a buck deer and next week I can buy leftover licenses for cow elk and doe deer so I expect to shoot about 4-6 animals this coming season. I intend to use both my new rifles, but I also will probably use the Ruger #1 in 9.3X74R on at least a few hunts.
It is becoming one of my absolute favorites rifles for hunting.

I love this "problem"

Oh my.............what rifle or handgun do I want to use today?

Makes me wish I could stay in good physical shape and hunt for at least 60 more years. It is truly one of life's best pleasures. The 51 years I have been hunting so far (I started when I was 9) is simply not enough.

Edited by szihn (09/07/16 12:14 AM)

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
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Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: American .323" bullets [Re: szihn]
      #285020 - 10/07/16 02:15 PM

Steve,

Never shot elk, and I don't handload, but I do hunt quite a bit with an open sighted 8mm Mauser rifle, that I bought cheap from a small store gunsmith, sixteen years ago. I've mostly used Federal 170 gr Power Shocks, because they are cheap, and they work very well with the open sights on my rifle. They work equally nicely on deer, and pigs. I am also regularly able to find the ammo at around $ 9 plus tax a box, and it isn't a caliber that disappeared from the shelves when Dear Leader tried sucking up all ammo in the country.

I've also used Prvi Partizan 196 gr PSPs, as well as PMC 170 gr PSPs, but both cost much more than the Federal stuff both here in Texas, as well as in Illinois and Wisconsin, where I still visit from time to time.

Good hunting, my friend!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2105
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: American .323" bullets [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #285021 - 10/07/16 02:20 PM

Hi Mehul

Good to hear from you again. Where in Texas did you end up?
I may be coming down there in Dec to hunt pigs. I have hunted all over, but in all my life I have never had the opportunity to hunt pigs, so I am looking forward to it. Maybe we could cross trails if you are somewhere close.
Of course, I don't know yet where I am going either. The hunt is being arranged by a friend of mine who used to work in Texas in the oil fields and know some folks down there.

Please keep in touch. I assume you still have my "home" e-mail don't you?

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GPJ12345
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Reged: 18/08/12
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Loc: South Africa
Re: American .323" bullets [Re: szihn]
      #285282 - 16/07/16 01:05 AM

Szihn
I myself have a 8x57JS Mauser. It is an excellent caliber for any type of hunting in South Africa , from duiker to Eland. I used Barnes TSX 180 bullets , it really are excellent bullets .My son Ruan shot his first game, black wildebeest with the Mauser 8x57JS . Here are some photos.I personally feels a 220 gn to a 250 gn as bush-veld load will have a great penetration .






I am on the lookout for a light bullet I can shoot longer distances with from my 8x57 JS Mauser, it has a 29.4 inch barrel...

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: American .323" bullets [Re: GPJ12345]
      #285284 - 16/07/16 01:53 AM

Steve,

I would recommend the 175 grain Privi Partizan BTS bullet for larger game. I have tried it out on white tail deer here in Tennessee, and found it excessively destructive, at least in my 8X64S Brenneke. One deer I shot with it had two smashed shoulders and blood shot meat, but I would think it would be ideal for larger thin skinned animals like elk, moose, wildebeest and kudu.

Bill

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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2105
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: American .323" bullets [Re: xausa]
      #285410 - 18/07/16 01:45 AM

xausa, you wrote you would recommend it. But it looks as if you meant to write you would not recommend it.
I am a bit confused.

One thing we need to consider is the fact that I am loading a standard 8X57 not an 8X64 or an 8MM Mag. So my striking velocity is likely to be between 2300 FPS and 1700 fps. At that speed I wonder how much better the bullet would do compared to the higher velocity of the mags and the 8X64? My muzzle velocity is 400 to 500 FPS slower. In my experience the higher velocity flattens out the trajectory but is not usually a better killer on large animals. There are exceptions, but most of the super fast shells do not kill elk any better than those that shoot from 2500 to 2800 FPS. They make hits at longer range a bit easier but the killing effect is not better. In fact, if the bullet fails they magnums often do not kill as well. What say you?

I picked up 2 boxes of Speer 200 grain bullets too. I have yet to load them. But I bet they would work fine out to about 300 yards.

Do you (or anyone reading this) have any experience with the Hornady 170 SST or the Speer 200 grain 8MM bullets on game?

Most often American hunters kill whitetail deer. A bullet that works perfectly on a deer is no guarantee that it will do fine on elk, but a bullet that comes apart on a deer is never an elk bullet.

Here in Wyoming I like to hunt elk in the trees, but last year my wife and I found them out in the open planes and I had to make long shots. We used a 270 and a 308 last year and did fine.

But I am going back to the trees this year. I like that kind of hunting better. So I expect to make shots at 100 to 150 yards, and it is not at all unusual to make shots at 35 to 50 yards.

If I need to shoot a long way I can always use my 270, 30-06 or my 300 H&H. But I just like hunting them up close better.

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Squarebridge
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Re: American .323" bullets [Re: szihn]
      #285417 - 18/07/16 06:12 AM

My brother has an 8mm Mauser and loads the 177 gr. Hornady for deer - he says they work well - they mushroom in a typical way. He doubts they're worth the extra cost, nothing special. He's not an in-depth handloader and doesn't experiment.

I read Xausa's message that he DID recommend the bullets for elk, moose etc. but not for deer. But I think frankly anything from an 8x64 is going to pretty much destroy a southern whitetail. It would be great in Saskatchewan!

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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
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Re: American .323" bullets [Re: Squarebridge]
      #285583 - 23/07/16 11:06 PM

I have made several custom Mausers in the past for customers and I used the Remington 185 grain to zero them. I never killed anything with one, and I don't know anyone that has either, but I did read somewhere they were quite good. Anyone used any of them? Some of the "core-lock" offerings have been excellent on other calibers and weights preforming as well as some costly "premium" bullets, and I have shot some groups with various "Core-loct" bullets that were well under 1" at 100 yards. In several 8mms I have been pleased to get 1" from their 185s, so I am hopeful.
Now days these 185 Remingtons seem to be hard to find. I hope Remington has not discontinued them.

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Jim_C
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Re: American .323" bullets [Re: szihn]
      #285584 - 23/07/16 11:54 PM

Remington core-lokts? I've used some of those in an 8mm Mauser on a couple of mule deer, and control-shooting wild hogs.

No major bone was hit on the mule deer, so the bullets passed through. On the hogs, I know bone was hit: when I could, I aimed through the chest cavity at the opposite shoulder with the intention of hitting bone. As I recall about half of them exited. The ones I bothered to recover showed typical expansion, with some fragmenting when the ball joint was hit "just right".

I wouldn't hesitate to use them on elk, but I'd want something more-stout for moose.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: American .323" bullets [Re: szihn]
      #285588 - 24/07/16 02:25 AM

Steve - I'm remembering my buddy Keith has used the 185 Remington on moose, elk, etc in his 8x68S - driving them quite hard - something over 3,000fps. At longer ranges they worked just fine and were very accurate. I almost bought a model 70 in .325 Short Mag from him and he suggested m,e using that bullet for deer through elk.
At the speeds you will get from the standard 8x57, I suspect it might be a do-all bullet. One must try them, of course.
He also liked the 196gr. Dual core Norma - the yellow plastic tipped bullet. It was a "HAMMER" on moose from his 8x68S.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2105
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: American .323" bullets [Re: DarylS]
      #287484 - 06/09/16 01:36 PM

Well I got some Nosler 200 grain Partitions, some Speer 200 grain flat base Hot Cores and I loaded some of the 170 Gr Hornady SSTs.

I have not loaded any of the 200 grain Noslers yet, but the Speers were loaded with 46 Gr of IMR4064 and shot 3 rounds into .630" at 100. That's only .005" over 5/8". Super good!

But the SSTs were amazing.
3 rounds shot into .234". 46 grains of IMR4895.
I was very impressed, not only with the accuracy of both bullets, but even more-so with the accuracy of the barrel. It is a cut off military M98 barrel. It was brand new, but still a 40s production military barrel. Shooting anything under 1/4" center to center with this barrel was astounding.

I think I will load some of the Partitions on the same load of powder as the Speers and see how they do.

This is all unimportant if they don't work well on game, but maybe I'll find out in the next few months. There are deer and elk in my plans.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: American .323" bullets [Re: szihn]
      #287486 - 06/09/16 02:43 PM

Steve - my Pacific manual lists 170gr. with 4064 as starting at 46.0gr. for 2,430fps and max at 51.0gr. at 2,730fps.

There is no data for 200gr., however 196 to 198gr. with 43.5gr. N203 (RE#15) starting at 2,200fps with maximum of 47.0gr. at 2,510fps.

The 225gr. data lists max of 4064 at 48.0gr. and 2,390fps, with IMR4350 start at 49.0gr. & 2,160fps with max of 4350 at 54.0gr. and 2,440fps.

An old friend of mine, retired guide, used the 4350 max load and got 2,450fps from his sporterized military M98 8x57 with the Speer 225's. They worked for him on a charging grizzly for him back in 1978. The bear charged them from uphill on the trail up the mountain - quite steep. The first 2 into the chest frontally, didn't do much, however the second turned the bear. The next one through the shoulders put the stop to him.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: American .323" bullets [Re: szihn]
      #287499 - 06/09/16 11:55 PM

Quote:

xausa, you wrote you would recommend it. But it looks as if you meant to write you would not recommend it.
I am a bit confused.



Sorry for the confusion, Steve. What I meant to say was that the bullet was not appropriate for white tail deer, but would work fine on larger game, like wildebeest or kudu (and elk) in my opinion.

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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2105
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: American .323" bullets [Re: xausa]
      #287731 - 12/09/16 01:13 PM

Well I hope to have a report on how well the 170 Gr Hornady SST will work on elk in about 3 weeks. I'll let you all know.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26479
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: American .323" bullets [Re: szihn]
      #287732 - 12/09/16 01:28 PM

Good luck, Steve. If you could get your mitts on some Speer 225's, I think you would be very happy with them for all-round up to grizzlies. Worked for a friend of mine. Probably saved his bacon. The client was blindly ejecting all his ammo into the grass - thought he was shooting the bear - never fired a shot.
54.0gr. IMR4350 - 2,440fps.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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