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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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MichaelSchwarz
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Loc: Germany
Mauser 98 Stutzen
      #265362 - 22/05/15 02:10 AM

I invested in the debris of an Original Mauser Oberndorf 1900 .The Barrel is missing. The ring is marked with " Waffenfabrik Mauser Oberndorf 1900 " with small thread
20150519_205951.jpg

20150519_205959.jpg

20150519_210058.jpg



My intention is to build up a Mauser Stutzen like the one I copied from Dorleac. That one is an original from 1908.:

Original-Mauser-Stutzen-1907-01-980x428.jpg

The magazine holds cartridges up to 85,5 mm. I want to chamber it with a Lothar Walther barrel , 24 ", like the picture of the original shows. The calibre should be one used in 1900, not to much choices . My favourite is 7,65x53 Mauser.

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #265363 - 22/05/15 02:13 AM









Excuse the mistake

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Igorrock
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #265365 - 22/05/15 02:34 AM

IMO 6,5x55 is very good alternative caliber for m98 small ring actioned rifle. At least it's old enough for your purposes. But if you want to build something not so ordinary look this topic:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=210087&an=0&page=0

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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lancaster
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: Igorrock]
      #265390 - 22/05/15 05:30 PM

6,5x55 is a good round, no doubt, but I think the 7,65x53 is a good one too. something between 308 Win and 8x57 its fine for any european game. If I ever stumble about a Mauser 91 for a good price it would be a big temtation.

why dont you look for an original 7,65 argentine barrel? I think it must be possible to find this because so many argentine rifle's are butchered for the action. I would ever take an original period barrel if possible. simply ask gunmaker who make custom mauser's they must have it.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: lancaster]
      #265395 - 22/05/15 06:01 PM

Yes, you are right, there are also new Barrels in the old shape:

Weißfertiger Büchsenlauf, Original Mauser Argentino
ØD1 = 15,5mm
ØD2 = 16,5mm
ØD3 = 24,5mm
ØD4 = 28,2mm
G-Ø = 1.1" (12 Gang auf 1")
L = 740mm



is available from Lothar-Walther, but with 740 mm / 28 " it is not useable for a Stutzen stock I am afraid. And just cut it to 24 " would not be a solution.

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korv
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #265399 - 22/05/15 07:50 PM

It`s a transition action.Being a former owner of this gun and having another transition action
org Oberndorf gun in 6,5x55(pictured on this forum auctions rare pre-transitional....)
my opinion 6,5 is a good choice as is 8x57i or 9x57.I personly would`nt make it stutzen
as none of the 3 transition rifles that i`ve owned had such stock though I would insisted on side panels,but why not use original stock with its patina and coppar nails.

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: korv]
      #265408 - 23/05/15 12:43 AM

Sir, is this the detail you mentioned with coppar nails on stock ? What was or still is the reason for those nails ?

[img]http://up.picr.de/21992770[/img]hk.jpg

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen *DELETED* [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #265410 - 23/05/15 12:44 AM

Post deleted by MichaelSchwarz

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #265411 - 23/05/15 12:49 AM



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korv
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #265414 - 23/05/15 01:19 AM

Oldtimers way to commemorate killing of moose one nail for each moose.
I happend to have org. Mauser model african octagonal barrel cal 9,3x62
with maybe 30 big Nails(moose?)and twice as many small nails(roe dear?)
otherwise gun is like new and yes thats the detail.

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: korv]
      #265450 - 24/05/15 03:06 AM

According to John Walter's " Rifles of the Word " , 2006 issue, p. 327, the C 98 was also long stocked as Stutzen:




The choice of calibres is restricted for the beginning years to 7x57, 8x57 and 9x57, though to be in line with the origin I intend to chamber it with a 9x57, as two of my other rifles. The 7,65 Mauser has to wait for a second chance...

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Igorrock
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #265451 - 24/05/15 03:58 AM

If you need good books of Mauser rifles you should find own copies of Jon Speed's Mauser books. After reading them you will know what's transition action m98 Mauser.



http://www.collectorgrade.com/bookshelf10.html



http://www.amazon.com/Mauser-Archive-Jon...3826&sr=1-2

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: korv]
      #265474 - 24/05/15 08:42 PM

Quote:

It`s a transition action.Being a former owner of this gun and having another transition action




Sir, I understand just now that you owned this specific rifle in former times, excuse the delay in my recognition. I wondered how you could know about the copper nails not shown in my pictures published in the forum. For what calibre was it chambered ? I would intend to use the original one, if possible

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korv
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #265480 - 24/05/15 11:21 PM

Yes I did own this particular rifle.Few years ago when I visited local gun shop
a man entered the shop and tried to sell to the owner his late father guns.The
owner declined buing and suggested scraping of the gun As he considered it of no
value.Man was more than happy to sell to me.I was very happy to buy extremly scarce
and valuable transiton action with stock a collectible.
The only reason I sold it was that I bought another gun. and I was over the limit imposed by goverment. Caliber was 9x57 but it was not original barrel(poor condition)
Your stock is in poor condition but whole and org Oberndorf.Action is in superb condition.
You own highly collectible and scarce item

Edited by korv (24/05/15 11:37 PM)

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kuduae
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: korv]
      #265505 - 25/05/15 08:46 AM

Transitional actionss were discussed here: http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....;gonew=1#UNREAD

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JabaliHunter
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: kuduae]
      #265525 - 25/05/15 10:52 PM

Or 6.5x57

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #265644 - 29/05/15 05:44 AM

I add a few additional photos of the Mauser 1900. Meanwhile I noticed also the stamp 1623 in the front part of the stock. All parts of the action and magazine carry the same number. I talked with my gunsmith about the whole project and we decided to restore the rifle as is.







By the way, the sagging of the stock is not suitable for any scope assembly, it was intended for iron sights. Beside that it would destroy the appearance of original action to a certain extend. I will leave it as near to the original as possible.

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korv
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #265668 - 29/05/15 05:17 PM

Please do not make holes in action for optical sights.Barrel in say 9x57 but .358 will make
perfect brush gun with alot of stile.If so inclined You can mount red Point like Docter
on the barrel

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Ash
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: korv]
      #265674 - 29/05/15 10:53 PM

That's amazing, a member happen to own the exact rifle in a thread posted by someone else but not having sold directly to them. Ah, the internet never ceases to amaze me.

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korv
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: Ash]
      #265681 - 30/05/15 12:52 AM

Sold through auction house.This way I could reach more potential
buyers.Anyhow there is maybe 50 to 100 transition actions or even less and this forum is for people
particularly intrested in Org Mauser (limited number of people and limited number of guns)

Edited by korv (30/05/15 03:56 AM)

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: korv]
      #267659 - 09/07/15 07:49 PM

Meanwhile the final decision is back to calibre 7,65x53 Mauser. Lothar Walther checked the system for detailed meassurements in their factory and now I have the final drawing for the barrel, 24 ". Michael Velser will help me with all the further steps to be done.



Just press the pdf button to recognize details.

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themauserkid
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #267850 - 12/07/15 03:05 PM

Very nice! Can't wait to see the build progress, I like the caliber choice, that's one I shoot a bit in two Peruvian 1909's. My next rifle will be a stützen also, simply the best form for a Mauser in my book.

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: themauserkid]
      #280435 - 06/04/16 09:06 PM

Progress Report 1:

[image][/image]

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justcurious
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #280439 - 07/04/16 01:02 AM

I would replace that ugly and inadequate backsight.

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: justcurious]
      #280443 - 07/04/16 03:19 AM

backsight in detail, I did not find any original Mauser one, only the military ones, which I don't like om my hunting rifle. This one is "handmade":

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #280444 - 07/04/16 03:30 AM

you will find this type of backsight for Mauser sporters om page 135 in John Speed ( Picture 245 )

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DarylS
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #280454 - 07/04/16 06:34 AM

Here's a source in the USA.

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/sights/rear-sights/express-sight-prod9640.aspx

Goggle has a list of them.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=express+s...ZF4OHjwSz66fQBA

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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VonGruff
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: DarylS]
      #280472 - 07/04/16 02:08 PM

There is alos the Sarco 1 fixed and two folding blades

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/mk10msr1fixed2foldinglearoundbottomvesexpresssight.aspx

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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xausa
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: DarylS]
      #280492 - 07/04/16 09:45 PM

Brownell's sights are from NECG, which in turn are from Recknagel, in Germany,

Here is my pre-WW I Mauser sporter, serial number 33554, caliber 9X57, showing its rear sight:

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: xausa]
      #280587 - 09/04/16 02:20 AM

Thank you for the impressive photos of your 9x57.
The shape of my barrel is straight and without recesses. This is due to the given form of the stock which I used as given "casting mold" for Lothar Walther. Were these straight forward barrels common for these rifles with intermediate actions ?

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kuduae
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #280591 - 09/04/16 03:06 AM

No. That's what I meant when I wrote your barrel profile being different from any original Mauser, Oberndorf, commercial barrels. All the originals were "stepped". Most early ones are like the one shown above by Xausa, others like my 1933 vintage B in 7x57 on an intermediate action. No Mauser round barrel had a straight taper like your's. I guess, your stock contained a half-octagonal, ribbed barrel originally.

BTW, you seem to confuse "intermediate" and "transitional" Mauser actions. Those early small ring test actions like your's, still without the bolt sleeve lock and the safety firing pin, are called "transitional actions". "Intermediate actions" have a bolt about 5 mm shorter and a receiver ring correspondingly longer than the standard length M98 actions of the German military rifles and copies. Though some transitional actions are of intermediate length too, intermediate actions were used by Mauser on 7x57 and .275 rifles as made for Rigby, as well as Turkish M1903 and Peruvian M1909 military rifles in 7.65x53.
Mauser rear sight bases were not soldered on "saddles" like your's, but part of a sleeve/ring soldered over the barrel and closely fitted against a step. You can barely make out the seam just behind the rear sight base on my rifle, but not visible in a photo.

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: kuduae]
      #280594 - 09/04/16 04:31 AM

Kuduae, thank you for your informations. What can be done to bring this project to a proper result ?
Lothar Walther produces ocagonal, but not half-octagonal barrels:

http://www.lothar-walther.de/brcms/bilddaten/bild2042_0.jpg

But, are they Mauser - like ?

Are there half-octagonal Barrels around elsewhere ?

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justcurious
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #280599 - 09/04/16 05:02 AM

Those barrels muauserlike ? Never ever.

The close reproduction of an Oberndorf octogon to round barrel is a real challenge for the barrelmaker
and for your cash resources.

Kuduae sums it up perfect.
The barrel contour and the backsight base you have chosen are typical for so many cheap Suhl made Mauser rifles.

The action you have is a very attractive and rare one. It is worth every EUR to invest.

Edited by justcurious (09/04/16 05:04 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: justcurious]
      #280624 - 09/04/16 11:16 AM

The step is 'joint line of the sight and barrel" is visible on my monitor, Kuduae.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: DarylS]
      #280630 - 09/04/16 01:27 PM

Lancaster postet the following rifle in the "mauser rifles at auction" thread on 19.03.16.:


Would that barrel shape be an authentic option for my rifle ? That rifle would come to auction in Munich the next ten days. I could visit the auction house for a pre auction check of the measurements. But is that barrel shown on picture an original one ? In case the Barrel data would not comply with my Action an stock would it perform as sample for a barrel maker ?

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kuduae
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #280639 - 09/04/16 07:26 PM

No, that's one of the "cheap Suhl made Mauser rifles" mentioned by justcurious. These were built post-WW1 by Suhl and Zella-Mehlis gunmakers post-WW1 on ex-military Gew98 actions. Definitely not a Mauser, Oberndorf, factory product! For a dimensional drawing of a Mauser Barrel, the shape as on my 7x57 B rifle, look at page 124, pic nr.214, of Jon Speed's "Mauser - Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles".

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: kuduae]
      #280667 - 10/04/16 03:52 AM

Kuduae,thank you very much for your further assistance. Pic. nr. 214 shows a "Lauf Type E ", but , I am afraid, will not fit im my Nr.1623 front shaft:

http://up.picr.de/22063616vf.jpg

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: DarylS]
      #280670 - 10/04/16 05:27 AM

Daryl, "joint line of the sight and barrel" seems to be a modern answer. As the exact form of the missing barrel is not known one could argue in line with modern architecture restauration practices. It could be better to bring the original parts to their best shine and glory and complement the missing with clearly perceptible new products. That would be a straightforward solution, quasi self- explanatory.

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Igorrock
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #280675 - 10/04/16 07:01 AM

Same book, page 87, picture 143 you can see good foto of early m98 transition sporting rifle. It seems that this type barrel could fit to yours stock channel.

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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: Igorrock]
      #280709 - 10/04/16 08:19 PM

and page 407, pic 909 seems to be a similar early version (1905 ) with round barrel and tangent sight:

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kuduae
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #280719 - 11/04/16 01:31 AM

That's the same barrel shape like the one shown by Xausa. Note the step in front of the small reinforce. The sleeve of the rear sight abuts against this step. BTW, the tangent rear sight blades of the commercial rifles are smaller than the military ones. In fact they are the same size and interchangeable with the ones used by Mauser on their C96 "broomhandle" pistols and their smallbore .22 lr rifles. Just the graduations differ.
The photos of your barrel channel show black streaks, the traces of a former octagonal barrel. Apparently the inleting has been altered before. Perhaps the rifle had been rebarreled before to a barrel of different profile?
As it is near impossible to reproduce a half-octagonal, ribbed Barrel of the Mauser factory style now, you have to compromise in some way.
Either you use a round barrel of a correct Mauser style, E type or the one shown by Xausa, and alter the barrel channel accordingly by inletting and glass bedding,
Or you use a non-Mauser barrel profile that fits your barrel channel as it is now,and live with it.

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: kuduae]
      #283227 - 02/06/16 02:49 AM

Progress Report 2:








The result is imo accetable. It is not the original shape, but it did not intend to copy the original. Reasons discussed above. Hopefully it will work in our Bavarian woods on not to far distances and not at marginal visibility.

Edited by MichaelSchwarz (02/06/16 03:40 AM)

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MichaelSchwarz
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Re: Mauser 98 Stutzen [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #283231 - 02/06/16 03:45 AM





two more fotos

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