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gryphon
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Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted
      #152346 - 31/01/10 06:55 PM

I am thinking of adding one to a commercial PH 98 action and am hoping for a heads up by the mauser men onboard.

Which one,what sort of money,how much fitting etc.

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Rockdoc
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: gryphon]
      #152611 - 02/02/10 10:42 PM

gryphon, no takers!
I have had one custom made. However, due to time etc., my next will either be an Ed Lapour or Recknagel from Graeme Spraggon. The Recknagel with the high hump mostly retained look nice IMHO.

They do require a little fitting. Will let someone else say how much and how much. Maybe give Graeme a ring, I'm sure he's fitted a few.

Please keep us posted.

Cheers, Chris


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tophet1
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: Rockdoc]
      #152613 - 02/02/10 11:04 PM

I'd like to hear some info as well. Only interested in two stage side swing safetys. On or Off.

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xausa
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: tophet1]
      #152614 - 02/02/10 11:16 PM

I'd like to hear your rationale behind wanting only a two stage safety. To me the beauty of the Model 70 safety (and the original M 98 wing safety) was that you could safely operate the bolt to empty the magazine, which other safeties (Mannlicher Schoenauer, P-14/M1917 Enfield, SMLE and any trigger safety) don't allow.

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JabaliHunter
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: xausa]
      #152632 - 03/02/10 02:30 AM

I agree with Tophet1. I don't particularly like 3 position safeties, don't own a single rifle with one and don't really see the need for it. I like the safety either on or off. If I'm stalking close, I don't want to have to flick my safety twice to get ready to fire. When I need to unload, I point the rifle in a safe direction, flick off the safety and open the bolt. If an internal magazine needs to be emptied, that is what the floorplate is for. If its a blind magazine then the cartridges can almost always be thumbed out individually.

Good gun handling etiquette means that whenever handling a firearm, it should be pointed in a safe direction (safety engaged or not). That means at a safe backdrop, not just away from any nearby person. If you empty an internal magazine by cycling cartridges through the chamber with the safety on but bolt unlocked, the firearm must still be pointed in a safe direction, just as it would with no safety on. A rifle with the safety on is not a safe firearm - it is only safe when the chamber is empty. This also applies if you want to check that all your rounds cycle through your DG rifle - it should be done against a safe backdrop, safety or not. I wouldn't stand in font of anyone doing that just because they had a 3 position safety!!


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gryphon
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #152649 - 03/02/10 05:43 AM

I have been searching the net and here are a couple of finds so far.

As far as three stage Mod 70 type and having used a Mod 70 for 30 years the safety is either on or off as the mid "safe" position is bypassed in one fluid motion,theres no stopping or extra clicking when that big stag gets up in front of you.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=6759/Product/M_98_MODEL_70_STYLE_SHROUD_WITH_WING_SAFETY

http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/turk/turklosafe.html

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: gryphon]
      #152653 - 03/02/10 06:01 AM

This is of interest to me as well as I have been thinking about the Gentry Custom units: http://www.gentrycustom.com/

Anyone have any experience with them? Thanks in advance for the opinions.

--------------------
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xausa
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #152667 - 03/02/10 06:59 AM

Quote:

I agree with Tophet1. I don't particularly like 3 position safeties, don't own a single rifle with one and don't really see the need for it. I like the safety either on or off. If I'm stalking close, I don't want to have to flick my safety twice to get ready to fire.

When I need to unload, I point the rifle in a safe direction, flick off the safety and open the bolt. If an internal magazine needs to be emptied, that is what the floorplate is for. If its a blind magazine then the cartridges can almost always be thumbed out individually.

Good gun handling etiquette means that whenever handling a firearm, it should be pointed in a safe direction (safety engaged or not). That means at a safe backdrop, not just away from any nearby person. If you empty an internal magazine by cycling cartridges through the chamber with the safety on but bolt unlocked, the firearm must still be pointed in a safe direction, just as it would with no safety on. A rifle with the safety on is not a safe firearm - it is only safe when the chamber is empty. This also applies if you want to check that all your rounds cycle through your DG rifle - it should be done against a safe backdrop, safety or not. I wouldn't stand in font of anyone doing that just because they had a 3 position safety!!




Where did you get the idea that you have to flick a three position safety twice to get ready to fire? Except for the Mauser type wing safety, there's no question of that. With a Model 70, you simply push the lever forward. If you want to use the intermediate position, you have to do it deliberately, not the other way around. With a Mauser type wing safety, when I'm stalking I leave the safety vertical, where a flick of the thumb can unlock it.

My experience with magazinefloor plates that are that easy to unlatch is that they are likely to unlatch of their own accord and spill the contents on the ground, not a happy occurance hunting dangerous game, or for that matter, any game which needs a quick second shot.

I appreciate your explaining gun handling etiquette to me. I suppose I've been going around all these years pointing guns in every direction and endangering my fellow shooters without being aware of it. I will try to do better.

However, I still prefer three position safeties. If you had ever handled a rifle with enough recoil energy to tear your thumb off if it accidentally discharges while you are cycling the bolt at waist level, pointed in a safe direction of course, then you might prefer one, too.


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xausa
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #152668 - 03/02/10 07:01 AM

I have one of the Gentry Custom units on my BRNO ZKK 602. It is not as smooth as a Model 70 safety, but it's a big improvement over the reverse safety which came on the rifle.

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tophet1
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: xausa]
      #152671 - 03/02/10 07:48 AM

FWIW JabaliHunter explained my attitude to the three and two position safety perfectly.

With safe weapon handling practises the intermediate position just isn't needed and is, I consider superfluous. .(On ya Jabali (thumbs up) for about 30 seconds there you made it to honourary Aussie status). From my Regular Army days I also like to apply the KISS pronciple. It's a personal choice and I beleive we should all be allowed to have whatever we want.


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mauserand9mm
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: tophet1]
      #152702 - 03/02/10 01:59 PM

I thought the middle position on the original Mauser safety was intended primarily for bolt disassembly.

I understand that when hunting dangerous game you have to have the firearm loaded and rely on the safety to prevent unintended discharges (and the handler ensuring that the rifle is always pointed in a safe direction) and in this case the safety must also lock he bolt, so the middle position would not be good for this.


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CHAPUISARMES
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #152707 - 03/02/10 03:14 PM


Hi Gryphon,

This is the Recknagel add:

"In the world of guns and hunting rifles, security is in greater demand more than ever.
We could meet this requirement, by improving our popular three-position-safety.
In cooperation with the renowed gunsmith Klaus Kästel we developed the so called
"SECURA-safety", which renders impossible an involuntary movement of the
safety lever into the FIRE-position."

It can be seen on: http://www.recknagel.de/systemenglish.htm

Hope this helps, Graeme Spraggon is the Agent. 0427 319 589

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

--------------------


"Travel Light, Travel Fast and carry a Big Bore"


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gryphon
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #152715 - 03/02/10 05:26 PM

Tar for that JG..I saw his ad on Used guns yesterday.JG

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Rockdoc
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: tophet1]
      #152719 - 03/02/10 05:44 PM

Quote:

I'd like to hear some info as well. Only interested in two stage side swing safetys. On or Off.




Tophet1 these look really nice. See the SCI David Miller Elephant Rifle.

I think Wisner make these, see their website or Brownells. I think Brownells supplied the tooling to instal these at one stage (maybe still do).

Cheers, Chris


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tophet1
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: Rockdoc]
      #152721 - 03/02/10 06:01 PM

This one ?

https://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=9916/Product/TWO_POSITION_SAFETY_KIT

The price is right too.


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Rockdoc
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: tophet1]
      #152726 - 03/02/10 06:59 PM

Yep. Not sure of the make Miller's used, might be worth trying to find someone who has used one. Brownells sell the instal toling from memory too, be there somewhere.
Google the Miller Elephant Rifle, it looks really elegant, but not as popular as the Mod70 style.
I would like to find out who has used the Recknagel high hump (or whatever it's called!).


Cheers, Chris

Edited by RockDoc (04/02/10 10:50 AM)


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CHAPUISARMES
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: Rockdoc]
      #152736 - 03/02/10 09:47 PM


Hi Gryphon,

In case you have not seen it, what your looking for is on www.usedguns.com.au under Accessories. Asking price is $250 looks new, says in "Very Good" condition. Made by Chapmen and will suit 98 or Mark X

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

--------------------


"Travel Light, Travel Fast and carry a Big Bore"


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Paul
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #152759 - 04/02/10 01:18 AM

What do Recknagel safeties cost? I suppose they are better than the old low-scope wing safeties but I still like the look of the old ones that retained the cool lines of the original bolt shroud. As long as you had a scope, of course, the RH-side was one quick or quiet depending on the situation.

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Rockdoc
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: Paul]
      #152761 - 04/02/10 02:09 AM

Hi Paul. Give Graeme Spraggon a call. I think around $250 or so? Was talking to him recently and think he had some in stock. I haven't handled one, but look good on website.
Cheers, Chris


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ErikDAdministrator
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: Rockdoc]
      #152778 - 04/02/10 03:58 AM

Gottfried Prechtl (www.golmatic.de) makes M70 style safeties, which can also be had in 2 position only if wanted, as does a Norwegian maker: Ragnar Hansen (www.magnumhansen.com). Ritterbursch (www.jagdgewehre.com) also makes M70 style safeties, including ones with the lever on the left side. Then there is as mentioned Recknagel and some others already mentioned.

Ritterbursch's lefthand version (for righthand shooters)


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Daryl_S
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: ErikD]
      #152787 - 04/02/10 04:56 AM

Safety-dodges (as Lt. James Forsyth called them) are nice, I guess, but do promote - sometimes, unwarranted ease or disrespect of where the muzzle is pointed.

I've hunted for years with guns without safeties, safely, as I don't carry a loaded chamber. I don't trust safeties and have had the gun fire when turning off safety. Of course, there was no danger, but this (twice) did nothing to instill faith in safety - dodges. Guns I hunt with with safeties, I also carry with an empty chamber. Final stalk is done with a chambered round but with the bolt up. Works for me.

I almost put a Gentry safety on my MK10 Mauser .375/06IMp, but resisted the impulse. I think it's the one I would use, if the impulse catches - again.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V


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VonGruff
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: Daryl_S]
      #152789 - 04/02/10 05:26 AM

I much prefer the safety as Mauser designed it for open sighted work anyway but where a scope is, or may be fitted I like the extended and lowered flag as adapted by PH as fitted here.



Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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mehulkamdar
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: xausa]
      #152796 - 04/02/10 05:48 AM

Xausa,

Thanks for the opinion on the Gentry safeties.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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JabaliHunter
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: xausa]
      #152797 - 04/02/10 06:59 AM

Quote:

Where did you get the idea that you have to flick a three position safety twice to get ready to fire? Except for the Mauser type wing safety, there's no question of that. With a Model 70, you simply push the lever forward. If you want to use the intermediate position, you have to do it deliberately, not the other way around. With a Mauser type wing safety, when I'm stalking I leave the safety vertical, where a flick of the thumb can unlock it.
Your's must be much smoother than the ones I have tried in the past. I'll have to take another look.

My experience with magazinefloor plates that are that easy to unlatch is that they are likely to unlatch of their own accord and spill the contents on the ground, not a happy occurance hunting dangerous game, or for that matter, any game which needs a quick second shot.
Agree entirely - I actually prefer blind magazines, but that's just me.

I appreciate your explaining gun handling etiquette to me. I suppose I've been going around all these years pointing guns in every direction and endangering my fellow shooters without being aware of it. I will try to do better.
Glad you found it useful!

However, I still prefer three position safeties. If you had ever handled a rifle with enough recoil energy to tear your thumb off if it accidentally discharges while you are cycling the bolt at waist level, pointed in a safe direction of course, then you might prefer one, too.
Quite possibly, but I don't 100% trust any safety, no matter how many positions it has.




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gryphon
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #152801 - 04/02/10 07:49 AM

JG I saw that one on UG`s have also contacted gentry,$162 USD blued + $25 S+H,thanks JG

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CHAPUISARMES
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: gryphon]
      #152804 - 04/02/10 08:02 AM

No Worries, Anytime..........

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

--------------------


"Travel Light, Travel Fast and carry a Big Bore"


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Charles_Helm
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #152830 - 04/02/10 03:46 PM

I have two-position Model 70-type safeties on two Mark X commercial Mauser-actioned rifles. I prefer a three-position for personal reasons but the two-position does simplify things (although as noted you do not have to use the middle position on the 3-position version).

Mine are the ones sold by Jim Kobe with PME parts.

--------------------
Some pictures from Namibia

Some pictures from Zimbabwe

An Elephant Story


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MarkR
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: gryphon]
      #152849 - 04/02/10 07:54 PM

gryph,

The one on used guns has been already fitted to a rifle. Not sure if that makes a difference at all.

Cheers,
Mark.


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Paul
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: MarkR]
      #152851 - 04/02/10 09:44 PM

Thanks RocDoc, we've only got one M98 at the moment and $250 might be nearly all it's worth.

Von Gruff, I like the look of the PH safety most of all; they should be cheaper and some African hunters say a safety on the left is quicker. It's not quieter, though, as it is hard to get a finger to slow its dropping - and re-engagement might be a pest.

ErikD, the Ritterbursch LH version looks fine but would share some of the PH's failings, I imagine. At least you would not need a scope for that one.

Daryl, you obviously hunt in reasonably open country where you can crank the bolt when game is sighted. The man who hunts whitetail or sambar generally does not have that opportunity. Yes, I have had a rifle that would go off when the safety was released, if the trigger had been pulled accidently beforehand. With those ones, if they can't be fixed, I would leave the bolt handle up and hope I didn't lose too many cartridges. From an accident perspective, a firearm with a dodgy safety is a worry but the safest car must be many times more dangerous at freeway speeds.*

- Paul

*Happy to explain that at length if anyone doubts its veracity


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Daryl_S
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: gryphon]
      #152873 - 05/02/10 02:20 AM

Yeah - they weren't cheap. When I contacted them, the exchange rate was around 1.59 for US to Canada. That would put the price at $297.33 w/shipping. It would be closer to $200.00 today including shipping - still a bit of change - today.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V


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Charles_Helm
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: Daryl_S]
      #152904 - 05/02/10 01:03 PM

Forgot to mention that Ed LaPour makes a 3-position that is highly thought of.

http://www.edlapourgunsmithing.com/

Not sure about shipping issues.

--------------------
Some pictures from Namibia

Some pictures from Zimbabwe

An Elephant Story


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joivill
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #154409 - 22/02/10 07:43 AM

Hallo Dear frinds Long time I have made post in here , but I lost my log in acont so I make a new one. Im a guns and knivesmith here in Reykjavík Iceland. Im making a few mausers on this time
one in 9,3x62 one in 6,5-284 and one in 30-06,
For the safety I use three posision sefety from Recknagel Germany like many others parts,trygger, scopemounts, swivels,sights and the qualaty of this product is on high level. I like the profil on this safety from Recknagel because it have the same profil and the orginal end on the mauser 98 bolt.I will try to submit some photo other wise you can visit my www.picasaweb.goggle.com/joivill







Edited by joivill (22/02/10 10:43 AM)


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joivill
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: joivill]
      #154410 - 22/02/10 07:48 AM

I have som problum to submit this photo what is wrong ?
Joivill


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joivill
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: joivill]
      #154425 - 22/02/10 10:47 AM



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joivill
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: joivill]
      #154429 - 22/02/10 10:53 AM

And here is my Mauser Steyr action model 1912 in Cal 6,5-284 Norma with Recknagel safety and Recknagel scopemount model K5 and Recknagel Trygger, Handmade Peckar-Berlin scope 6-18x45Ao.
Thanks joi Vill


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Rockdoc
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: joivill]
      #154497 - 22/02/10 08:04 PM

Thanks Joivill. I really like the look of that safety. How smoothly does it function?
Cheers, Chris


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joivill
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Re: Mauser `98 swing /mod 70 safety clues wanted [Re: Rockdoc]
      #154504 - 22/02/10 09:30 PM

Hi Chris
The safety is very smooth ,but the work of instalision must by good a good contact with the cocking pice.
Joivill


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