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Mark_Dube
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Reged: 04/01/06
Posts: 49
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Westley Richards 318
      #118995 - 17/11/08 10:22 AM

Hello all,

Well it's been less than a month since I acquired my first "vintage" rifle (275 Rigby Lightweight)

Now I have srumbled accross a nice Westley Richards in 318 Accelerated Express. Manufactured in 1954.

It is a single square bridge, and has no notch for loading from a stripper clip.

It had nicely engraved bases for quick release scope mounts, did WR have a proprietory system? Are rings available?

The bolt knob seems unusual to me as well what do you think?

Anyone shoot one? Any tips on reasonably priced dies etc?

Here are a few photos.











--------------------
Mark

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500Nitro
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: Mark_Dube]
      #118996 - 17/11/08 10:26 AM


Nice. Have you bought it yet ?


If not, suggest you do if all OK with bore etc.


The Bolt Knob to me looks like it's been added,
however photo not that good so don't take it as
definitive.


Buy RCBS Dies. They work. The other cheaper crap doesn't.

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Huvius
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: 500Nitro]
      #118998 - 17/11/08 11:09 AM

Interesting rifle - well worth having.
I have seen bolt knobs like this before - is it aluminum?
Not sure of the scope mount on the front ring, not a WR item I think.
Also, the rear bridge looks like it is soldered on, is it?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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zimhunter
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: Huvius]
      #119031 - 18/11/08 02:43 AM

I have a 375H&H that is built on a W-R 318 Accellerated Express single square bridge action that appears to be the same action as yours. I believe the front ring on your action is relieved the same as on mine. The front ring rather than have a notch in the top for the long bullet has the front ring milled away from the top right side down to the rail. The amount removed is about the same depth as the single groove usually is and makes sense to me to facilitate loading of long rounds. My bolt handle is a regular Mauser tear drop bolt handle with nice engraving on the handle and the knob.

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pjaln
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: zimhunter]
      #119053 - 18/11/08 07:01 AM

mark. this is not a real oberndorf square bridge as westley would often ,and mostly use military actions for there guns the bolt handle was probably altered in england as they tend to do some funky things ,ive had a few of these in fact i let go of a nice one last year with the original scope and westley patent mounts all numbered to the gun if you email simon clode at westlys in england he may be able to shed some more info for you , champlin arms has a 7x57 on his site right now that is built on a oberndorf as not many were ,personally i admire what westley had to go thru to make a military action look and act nice as rigby mostly used oberndorfs and they needed nothing ...paul

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zimhunter
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: pjaln]
      #119061 - 18/11/08 09:27 AM

Mine is an original single square bridge Mauser action marked Westley Richards 318 Accellerated Express. The front ring is milled away for clearance as is this one giving me the idea this was a standard WR practice for this caliber. I have never seen it done on another rifle caliber by any other maker.

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pjaln
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: zimhunter]
      #119066 - 18/11/08 11:00 AM

zimhunter,i know there is a pic of a westley takedown on an oberndorf in ludwig olsens book i,ll check to see if that one has the mill cut ,could you post a pic of yours,bear in mind westley worked with whatever they got there hands on ....paul

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zimhunter
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: pjaln]
      #119111 - 19/11/08 03:00 AM

Sorry,would like to post a picture but have never been able to on this forum. Have no idea what the reason as I have tried every suggestion. Must have something to do with where my photos are hosted but have no idea how to resolve it.

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Mark_Dube
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: zimhunter]
      #119118 - 19/11/08 05:55 AM

Hello,

500Nitro - I did buy the gun (what choice did I have), the bolt knob is a seperate piece of metal but the engraving matches the rest of the gun. I will attempt some additional photos.

Huvius - the bolt knob is not aluminum. I have heard mention of aluminum, ebony or horn bolt knobs, I understand this was so the bolt didn't get too hot in the African sun(???). The engraving on the mounts seems to match the rest of the gun. The bridge may be soldered on. I will attempt better photos.

zimhunter - This rifle does actually have the notch machined at the reat of the front ring to allow clearance for the long projectile. I would be happy to post your photos if you would like, just e-mail them to me vintagesxs@live.ca

Paul - How can I determine the maker of the receiver/action? What photo could I provide to allow you to assist in that determination?

Thank you all for your input.

--------------------
Mark

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pjaln
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: Mark_Dube]
      #119139 - 19/11/08 10:27 AM

mark, i dont think it would be easy to determine the action maker might , i would think BRNO ,DWM, might be FN or the likes.whatever it is it most likely started life in the military.the cut or shaving of the action on the rear of the ring is to make sure there is enough room for the cartridge to eject without hitting the rear of the front ring .....paul

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Mark_Dube
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: pjaln]
      #119142 - 19/11/08 11:17 AM

Here is aphoto and details of zimhunter's 375 mentioned above:



Here is a pretty good shot of my Westley Richards/Mauser single square bridge. It shows fairly well the relief that has been milled to the front ring and the square bridge. It was originally a 318 Accellerated Express and is so marked on the left side of the front ring. Bottom metal is original Mauser but off a 10.75. Rifle is now a 375H&H. Bolt is the original with rather unusual ,to me, engraving as no other part of the action is engraved. Back of bolt knob is flat in a perfect circle and is checkered inside the circle. Have never seen another bolt exactly like this one. Cocking piece now has one of Rusty Marlins excellent Rigby style adjustable peeps. Left side of ring is marked 'W.R - 318' under the number 40041 and under that is ' ACCELERATED EXPRESS'. The safety lever has the word SAFE inlaid in gold. Cannot remember if there are any markings on the bottom of the action. Have no idea where the action originated as I bought it as a barreled action less bottom metal from a good friend. Barrel was done by David Miller and is a nice 26" barrel with integral 1/4 rib with banded ramp front and barrel band front swivel. Stock is nice piece of English Walnut that was turned for me by Curt Crum. All in all it turned out to be a pretty nice rifle in probably my all time favorite caliber.

--------------------
Mark

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pjaln
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: Mark_Dube]
      #119153 - 19/11/08 01:37 PM

that gun has miller written all over it,..paul

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paradox_
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: pjaln]
      #119170 - 19/11/08 06:08 PM

Most definatley an ordinance action, tarted up, WR turned them out by the dozen, this one appears from the 50s, and loks to be of ordinary quality

--------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick

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Marrakai
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: paradox_]
      #119178 - 19/11/08 08:47 PM

Geez, p_, I hope you brought the beer....!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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FrankMartinez
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: Marrakai]
      #119280 - 21/11/08 07:53 AM

Congratulations on the purchase. I have one for sale in the classifieds It is the stock take-down LT series.
My other is the barrel take-down and I truly enjoy shooting it.
Frank

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Mark_Dube
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: FrankMartinez]
      #119316 - 22/11/08 07:31 AM

Gentlemen,

Here are the promised photos:

Please let me know what you think.











--------------------
Mark

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pjaln
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: Mark_Dube]
      #119326 - 22/11/08 02:27 PM

definetly done in england , i would bet on it ,its there style, just who done is the question ,if westley does not have any info on it then it could have been any gunsmith there, the gun is not that old considering so the ledger should be availible...paul

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Marrakai
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: pjaln]
      #119335 - 22/11/08 07:05 PM

Mark:
Looks like a nice example of a WR .318 to me. I'd be quite happy to own it.

Now that you do, please tell us how that bolt-knob feels in action!


Quote:

Most definatley(sic) an ordinance(sic) action, tarted up


Not quite sure what p_ was implying by this, but the lack of a thumb cut-out in the left side of the action would tend to suggest that it is probably not a sporterised ex-mil action.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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peter
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: Marrakai]
      #119343 - 23/11/08 05:06 AM

i hate to be the guy that is pissing in the beer mug, but to me that looks like it never saw england.
The square brigde is sweated on(not part of the forging) so it is not a single square brigde mauser, and i never saw base's like that on a london gun with allan head screws.
the engraving is the most telling sign of a gun out of pakistan or afganistan in the mid range, nicely looking but way to crude to be from any london shop.

again i might be wrong.

please show the proof marks and the writing on the barrel, that should give an indication.

best regards

peter

Edited by peter (23/11/08 05:22 AM)

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9.3x57
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: peter]
      #119349 - 23/11/08 07:31 AM

Quote:

the engraving is the most telling sign of a gun out of pakistan or afganistan in the mid range, nicely looking but way to crude to be from any london shop.



That's what I thought, too.

Neat gun. I wonder if it DID come from India or Pakistan.

Are such guns commonly "signed" by the engraver anywhere on the gun?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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peter
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #119350 - 23/11/08 07:48 AM

9,3

sadly we see more and more faux london name guns, apparing in the sales or just popping up out of nowhere.

first thing to look for is : BARREL BANDS especially for the sling, if i dont see one on the gun, already then i am ready to dismiss the gun as a faux. most of the time im right as well

with the prices that these guns commend these days, there is rarly a free lunch to be had.

buyer beware(please)

best regards

peter

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Mark_Dube
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: peter]
      #119354 - 23/11/08 08:54 AM

You guys are killing me!

Although I am new to British rifles, I have collected and shot British SXS's for many years. I am framiliar with proof marks, engraving styles, etc.

This gun carries appropriate british proof (& view) marks on the barrel, action and bolt.

The barrel inscription "Westley Richards & Co. London" is in the appropriate location (spelled correctly) and is engraved rather than stamped.

The engraving, although somewhat sparce, and not appropriate for a "best Gun" seems quite tastefull and of appropriate quallity for a hunting gun. I have seen big name Brit rifles with far less engraving.

The scope mounts did originally raise a question in my mind, that's why I asked. I don't think hex screws were even available when this gun was made.

The serial number is appropriate for the era, and does kick out a year of manufacture on the WR website.

Do any of you know if there should be any other markings under the wood? What should I look for and where?

Thanks

--------------------
Mark

Edited by Mark_Dube (23/11/08 08:56 AM)

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500Nitro
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: Mark_Dube]
      #119355 - 23/11/08 09:04 AM


Mark,

Engraving does not equate to a Best gun and Vice Versa.

IMHO, the gun looks WR but the mounts don't.

I have a few WR 318's. so have a fair idea of what to look for.

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peter
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: Mark_Dube]
      #119357 - 23/11/08 09:19 AM

mark i will try to answer to the best of my knowlegde

Quote:

You guys are killing me!

Although I am new to British rifles, I have collected and shot British SXS's for many years. I am framiliar with proof marks, engraving styles, etc.

This gun carries appropriate british proof (& view) marks on the barrel, action and bolt.

The barrel inscription "Westley Richards & Co. London" is in the appropriate location (spelled correctly) and is engraved rather than stamped. yes it is engraved but the work is a lower level of craftmanship

The engraving, although somewhat sparce, and not appropriate for a "best Gun" seems quite tastefull and of appropriate quallity for a hunting gun. I have seen big name Brit rifles with far less engraving.
it is not a matter of amount, with this it is more a matter of styling. way to open and crude to be english

The scope mounts did originally raise a question in my mind, that's why I asked. I don't think hex screws were even available when this gun was made.
hex head screws came in 1906, but are still not accepted on a london gun to this day. the sweated on square brigde is the major give away. WR guns used real actions that were forged

The serial number is appropriate for the era, and does kick out a year of manufacture on the WR website.
until you send them pictures of the gun and get them to letter it that means nothing. i just entered my triumph bonnevilles frame number in there and it gave me a 1934 year.(my bonneville is a '73)

Do any of you know if there should be any other markings under the wood? What should I look for and where?

Thanks



this is as good as i can do without the gun in my hands.

best regards

peter

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ozhunter
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: peter]
      #119362 - 23/11/08 11:06 AM

For fifty pounds you could get Westley Richards to send you copies of the records of that rifle.

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9.3x57
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: ozhunter]
      #119366 - 23/11/08 12:41 PM

Quote:

For fifty pounds you could get Westley Richards to send you copies of the records of that rifle.



Well worth it.

Like the Smith and Wesson letters, very interesting and worthy in their own right. Ya never know what might turn up.

I'm with Peter on this one.

For those who don't know, I am NOT an expert on Brit bolts but know a little about Mausers.

So I have some questions;

Are legit W/R's actions engraved with the maker's name in such a crude fashion? Look at the "8" in the 318. Did the engraver cough or something or did somebody slap him on the back for such a good job right in the middle of whittling the 8?

Obviously the mounts are add-on's and I question the solder finish if W/R.

I am REALLY and truly interested in this, because if it is a legit W/R then I am learning some interesting stuff. I've seen a few {not many} W/R guns and I cannot recall any with such markings.

It is a very interesting gun.

The engraving itself is a dead ringer for the decoration on an old brass tea service a retired India missionary gave my Mom many years ago. That's literally what grabbed my eye when Peter suggested Pak/Afghan. Is it possible it is a legit W/R but engraved after the fact...?

The sweep of the bolt handle {not the knob} looks like a postwar FN Mauser. The knob is not standard of course but is easy to grind to shape. I've altered a few knobs myself. In fact, it looks alot like a Browning "A-Bolt" knob and in answer to the question that configuration is if anything an improvement on the ball or teardrop IMO. Very comfortable to use.

Regardless, if it is a post-War FN action {looks like a 1950's vintage FN} no harm there as long as W/R used such. It is definitely NOT a military action as Marrakai rightly states. That I know. There should be FN markings on it if it is not W/R. Not sure what markings were on W/R actions if they purchased them as actions direct from FN. {???}

As stated, it IS a very interesting gun. If true W/R it is informative. If "tarted up" up in Madras or Islamabad in some ways even more interesting!

At any rate, thanks very much for posting. Guns of unknown providence are always of interest.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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500Nitro
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #119367 - 23/11/08 12:55 PM


Yes, WR ENgraved the 318 Accel like that.

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9.3x57
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: 500Nitro]
      #119368 - 23/11/08 12:58 PM

Quote:


Yes, WR ENgraved the 318 Accel like that.



Thanks 500Nitro.

I've seen gun engraving done, and am interested how W/R engravers did it. It is quite a "freehand" style.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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500Nitro
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #119371 - 23/11/08 01:12 PM

I'm trying to find photos of my 3 or 4 318's
but for some reason I don't have them.

I'll try and answer the other questions later.

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pjaln
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #119373 - 23/11/08 01:27 PM

i had a Westley that had the scope which was put on the gun from the factory 1933 lettered out from Simon Clode stating that the engraver made a mistake while numbering the scope , gun number was 42331 scope was engraved 43221 it should say something about who does some ,but not all of there engraving

btw i apologize for overlooking the thumb cut,,,yes its most likely an FN...Paul

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A10ACN
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: pjaln]
      #119420 - 24/11/08 02:09 PM

Sorry, I have to disagree with several of the experts; I fully believe it is a factory W/R. I looks like a 50s/60s FN commercial action (NOT a pre-war Mauser Commercial!) that W/R (or an outsourcer- I've seen other makes done up as such) squarebridged. I've seen other W/Rs (and other Brit makes) with that sparce scroll engraving, too, especially during the post-war era. Contrary to popular belief, not all rifles to come out of London (or B'ham in this case!) were 'best' quality. The bolt knob is a bit unusual but this is a scoped rifle and W/R historically changed the bolt knob on their Mausers. I think the scope mounts are factory, if not original (afterall, they went to the trouble to squarebridge the action). The stock also has a monte carlo style to it which also suggests it was built from the ground up as a scoped rifle. As far as the engraving being crude, I think part of the story is the post-war engravers, post-war cost cutting, poor American taste (!), and it looks like it may have been recut when it was wentover sometime in its recent past.
Just my opinion.
BTW, the W/R letters (like any makers) are cool and often filled with little surprises.
A10ACN

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Huvius
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: A10ACN]
      #119425 - 24/11/08 04:05 PM

I have no reason to think this isn't a WR made gun - I don't know much about the post-war English stuff.
Recently I was able to inspect a post-war Rigby bolt gun and wasn't impressed. Like all businesses, they make what they can sell.
One thing I caution new collectors on is the common verbage when it comes to identifying a Mauser as a "square bridge". This one isn't. I would call this a scope mount rather than a square bridge.
I prefer them to standard actions, and there have been some pretty good fakes out there recently. So when buying a "restored" gun, be dubious if it doesn't look exactly right.
That said, I am not sure what kind of premium a true square bridge action commands over a standard action these days.
Judging by the wear on the barrel just in front of the front scope mount, I say the bases are not original.
The engraving on the bottom metal and floorplate look to be marginally more well executed than the rest of the gun. I have seen some guns with only the floorplate engraved - perhaps this was such a gun and a past owner had the action done to match - I don't know.
The way I see it, there may be nothing at all to knock about this gun - depends entirely on the price and how it has been represented by the seller.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Mark_Dube
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: Huvius]
      #120445 - 06/12/08 04:46 AM

I have received the Letter, Authentication Certificate and ledger copy from Westley Richards.

The documents verify that it was built by them, on a "Mauser 98 - FN" action, fitted with a 24" barrel with one standing plus 2 leaf express sight and a Westley Richards combination foresight. The stock had a full pistol hand and normal roll over cheekpiece. The rifle was completed for our London showroom in 1954.

There were no comments re. the rear "bridge", scope mounts nor engraving, I have sent a seperate request for information on these items.

Again, I look forward to your comments.

--------------------
Mark

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Bramble
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: Mark_Dube]
      #120468 - 06/12/08 09:38 AM

Mark

Did you send Trigger photo's of the gun or just the SNo. ?

Regards

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Mark_Dube
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: Bramble]
      #120471 - 06/12/08 10:33 AM

Bramble,

I sent photos & a link to this discussion.

--------------------
Mark

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9.3x57
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: Mark_Dube]
      #120476 - 06/12/08 12:59 PM

Mark, thanks for continuing to keep us posted. Very interesting thread.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Mark_Dube
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Re: Westley Richards 318 [Re: ozhunter]
      #120519 - 07/12/08 08:05 AM

Hello again Gents, Here is a bit of an update.

I have located some ammo while I await my dies & bullets, the gun is a dream to shoot, surprisingly light recoil for a 250 grain bullet at 2400fps.

I'm currently walking with the aid of crutches (or cane on a good day) so couldn't make it down range to set targets (there is a good foot of accumulated snow on the range), I was only able to bang the gongs, but it was no problem hitting the little one (10" ?) at 100yrds consistenly with the express sights:D





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Mark

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