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jgrabow
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Re: 10,75x63 by Rodda Calcutta [Re: lancaster]
      #367480 - 04/07/22 10:38 PM

Just curious, do these 10.75x63's hold 5 cartridges in the magazine like the original Mauser 10.75x68's?

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 10,75x63 by Rodda Calcutta [Re: lancaster]
      #367481 - 04/07/22 10:48 PM

Quote:

the 10,75x63 comes frome the past, the 10,75x68 is something that goes the same way it seems

maybe its not the cartridge for elephant, buffalo, lion but up to medium range it work on smaller game.




Velocity of the 10.75x68 seems to be approx 2200 to 2250 fps with a 347 gr bullet.

Velocity of the .450/400s with a 400 gr bullet is approx 2100 to 2150 fps. Calibre .407 to .411.

The old .404 Jeffery. .423, reported a 2170 fps velocity with a 400 gr projectile. Nowadays msybe 2200 to 2350 fps. The old and new .404 has a good reputation.

The 10.75x68, .423 calibre was reported as a failure on DG. Eg Harry Manners, Kambaku. Who switched to a .375. The principal claim to the failures was bullet construction.

Is the modern 350/347 gr Woodleigh Weldcores and FMJ better constructed? Almost certainly. Is 2200 to 2250 fps adequate? I would think so, but marginal decreases also exist.

Can a 400 gr .423 bullet be loaded in a 10.75x63 or x68? At what velocity? If 2100 fps or even 2150 fps? Zero practical difference to the old .404 Jeffery.

I will edit this post to discuss equivalent sectional densities.

Is the barrel twist rate the same?

All armchair stuff, given the lack of field users.

But I like it's lack of reputation ie the x68. Maybe get one nice M98 from Germany one day cheaper.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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jgrabow
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Re: 10,75x63 by Rodda Calcutta [Re: NitroX]
      #367482 - 04/07/22 10:56 PM

Woodleigh Bullets reloading manual has one load for the 10.75x68 using their 400 gr RN SN bullets and AR2208 powder. Max load is 2145 fps.

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Jim


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 10,75x63 by Rodda Calcutta [Re: jgrabow]
      #367483 - 05/07/22 12:19 AM

Quote:

Woodleigh Bullets reloading manual has one load for the 10.75x68 using their 400 gr RN SN bullets and AR2208 powder. Max load is 2145 fps.




That should be effective enough. Marginally less than ideal like a .375, .45/400 etc. But still perform.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 10,75x63 by Rodda Calcutta [Re: NitroX]
      #367486 - 05/07/22 12:36 AM

Sectional density.

Sectional density plus velocity at impact is a key determinant of penetration. Bullet construction as a constant. Calibre size and expansion with penetration is the other determinant of killing effectiveness.

But if one looks at the .577? Penetration is important. Velocity with it increases effectiveness. But being hit with something heavy also just seems to work

https://www.vcalc.com/wiki/MichaelBartmess/Sectional+Density

.423, 347 grs. SD is .277
.423, 400 grs, SD is .319
.423, 450 grs, SD is .359

.375, 270 grs, SD is .274
.375, 300 grs, SD is .305
.375, 350 grs, SD is .356

9.3mm, .366, 287 grs, SD is .306
9.3mm, .366, 320 grs, SD is .341

.318 WR, .330, 250 grs, SD is .328
.338, 250 grs, SD is .313

.411, 400 grs, SD is .338

.416, 400 grs, SD is .330
.416, 450 grs, SD is .371

.458, 480 grs, SD is .327
.458, 500 grs, SD is .341

.577, 650 grs, SD is .279
.577, 750 grs, SD is .322
(.577 corrected)

Not wanting to keep going off topic.

The 10.75x63 or x68,
If loaded to 2150 fps or more, 347 gr bullets of decent construction will out perform the lesser .375 cartridges below the magnum (s)

If loaded with a 400 gr to 2100 fps with modern powders and a .404 well designed bullet can do what the .404 Jeffery did in the first half of last century. Buffalo, elephants, lion, rhino etc.

All from my armchair ...

I'd have no problem using them on water buffalo, scrub bull, as well as pigs and sambar iietc.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
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Edited by NitroX (05/07/22 01:05 AM)


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lancaster
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Re: 10,75x63 by Rodda Calcutta [Re: NitroX]
      #367496 - 05/07/22 04:03 AM

10,75x68 and two 10,75x63 side by side



DWM made, notice the x68 is the DWM case number 515A what makes the x63 with case number 515 the mother case

its possible that DWM was the very first maker of the 10,75x68, maybe with an order of the Mauser Werke

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Daryl_S
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Re: 10,75x63 by Rodda Calcutta [Re: lancaster]
      #367500 - 05/07/22 05:30 AM

Wikipedia notes data from COTW.
Larger in diameter than .30/06, smaller than the .376 Styer.
Modern powders would do well in it, for sure.

347 gr (22 g) SP 2,200 ft/s (670 m/s) 3,830 ft/lbf (5,190 J)
347 gr (22 g) SP 2,230 ft/s (680 m/s) 3,870 ft/lbf (5,250 J)
347 gr (22 g) SP 2,250 ft/s (690 m/s) 3,900 ft/lbf (5,300 J)

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Daryl


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kuduae
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Re: 10,75x63 by Rodda Calcutta [Re: NitroX]
      #367512 - 06/07/22 05:14 AM

Quote:

The 10.75x68, .423 calibre was reported as a failure on DG. Eg Harry Manners, Kambaku. Who switched to a .375. The principal claim to the failures was bullet construction.



And misunderstanding of loads and bullets. F.i. the OE expanding bullet (discontinued 1934) looked like a full metal jacket round nose, but was designed to expand. So it failed to penetrate like a solid, of course.
Quote:

lack of field users.



The 10.75x68 was unpopular in British Africa only. Especially after Taylor’s misconceptions and prejudices were published. But it was the standard big game number in the former German colonies and in all French, Portuguese and Spanish Africa.
South African Pierre van der Walt in his book “African Dangerous Game Cartridges” has a whole chapter on the 10.76x68. He and many of his relatives and hunting buddies are using the cartridge regularly for decades by now, not only on large plains game like eland and zebra, but on buffalo and lion too.
Quote:

Can a 400 gr .423 bullet be loaded in a 10.75x63 or x68? At what velocity? If 2100 fps or even 2150 fps? Zero practical difference to the old .404 Jeffery.



Pierre gives several loads with 400 gr bullets in the 2100 – 2200 fps range, f.i. 61gr H335 for 2142 fps, 74 gr WW748 for 2208 fps, or 56 IMR 4198 for 2140 fps. Apparently he favors lighter bllets for cats, lions and leopards. He has 22 loads for the 347 gr Woodleighs, top speeds 2360 to 2400 fps. With such handloads he rates the cartridge on par with the classic .450-400 NE and .404 Kynoch loads.
Quote:

Is the barrel twist rate the same?



Mauser, Oberndorf, used the same 420 mm = 16.5” twist for the 10.75x68, .404 and .416 Rigby.


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lancaster
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Re: 10,75x63 by Rodda Calcutta [Re: kuduae]
      #367513 - 06/07/22 05:33 AM

and btw, the german barrel maker Lothar Walther(the Walther family in Zella Mehlis)discontinued the make of .424/ 10,75x68 barrel blanks some years ago but send you a .423/ 404 Jef. barrel blank if you need a 10,75.
the proof houses accept this without problems.

from the original DWM case book



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 10,75x63 by Rodda Calcutta [Re: kuduae]
      #367523 - 06/07/22 11:11 PM

Thanks Kuduae. Good information.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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kuduae
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Re: 10,75x63 by Rodda Calcutta [Re: NitroX]
      #367638 - 10/07/22 08:43 PM

Quote:

All armchair stuff, given the lack of field users.



In “Hatari Times” #15 (German version) Harald Wolf wrote about his own building and use of a 10.75x68 in Australia and Africa. In Africa he shot two buffalos and assorted plains game, in Australia three water buffalo, one banteng, a feral scrub bull and several pigs with this cartridge, no problems. He used late, 1980s RWS factory loads, merely replaced the fragile RWS bullets with 347 gr Woodleighs.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 10,75x63 by Rodda Calcutta [Re: kuduae]
      #367640 - 11/07/22 01:50 AM

I was referring to myself probably.

But good reference to its use.

A number of Aussies have used it well. Just not on here, currently anyway.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Marrakai
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Re: 10,75x63 by Rodda Calcutta [Re: NitroX]
      #367664 - 11/07/22 09:18 AM

Quote:

He used late, 1980s RWS factory loads, merely replaced the fragile RWS bullets with 347 gr Woodleighs.



..."merely"...??

I might respectfully suggest that was the key to the cartridge's success on dangerous game in Harald Wolf's hands.

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Marrakai
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