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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 17968
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Claydog]
      #312246 - 12/02/18 03:41 PM

I like high mounted scopes myself, although not all my rifles have them.
I like to look at the animal or target when practicing, snap the rifle to my shoulder and I am looking at the crosshairs on that animal. My head is held erect, my face not pressed down hard in to the comb just to see through the scope - cheek weld many call it.
For me, that is uncomfortable - I like to shoot standing as I walk - erect.
I agree that when shooting at really long ranges, a lower harder hold might be beneficial, however I don't need it.

I could be happy with that rifle as my only hunting rifle for big game. It would certainly be more than sufficient for all my future big game hunting.

For me any more, 300yards is 100yards past the furthest range I have used a modern ctg. rifle for, on big game.

Any more, shooting gophers at 400 to 500yards is the extent of my long range animal 'shooting'.

For big game, I do not need more than 200yards and that high mounted scope would handle that just fine.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Tentman
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Claydog]
      #312249 - 12/02/18 04:45 PM

Outstanding craftsmanship as usual from M. Dorleac, impeccable does not do it justice.

The choice of cartridge is inspired, really the 6.5 Creedmore was "made" for this action (it is afterall really a 6.5x48 or 6.5-250/3000 Savage Improved. Many of the "old boys" like P O Ackley etc would approve I think.

For another "take" abeit a much more modest one I offer my own 6.5x47 Kurz for comparison. When I initiated this project the 6.5 Creedmore was not available. My rifle came to me without a bolt, but after a long wait, a stroke of luck, and the assistance of a fellow from the forum I secured an original Kurz bolt for the princely sum of 11.5 Euros.

Like M. Dorleac I struggled with the choice of scope. I decided that the immediate past generation of Kahles scopes offered the right combination of reliability, and optics in a size that complimented the rifle. As has been noted by M. Dorleac one must make a choice fairly early on in the project if one is to follow the style to its logical conclusion (the rings are custom built to the scope). The advantage of the Kahles 2.3-7 on my rifleis that it shares the same tube as the 4x. In New Zealand we hunt in a very very robust environment, and scopes often fail, so the ability to have an affordable spare at hand is very comforting.

I would be very interested to hear what loads M. Dorleac uses or proposes to use. The factory 6.5 Creedmore is loaded to pretty high pressures (as is the 6.5x47) and I have been cautioned against using loads above 50,000 psi in these rifles. This advice was probably well intentioned but I had doubts about its source and accuracy.

One thing for those wondering, My rifle feeds both 6.5 Creedmore and 6.5x47 flawlessly without modification.

Cheers

--------------------
Southland, New Zealand


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Tentman
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Tentman]
      #312250 - 12/02/18 04:56 PM

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qinByc0fBT7AnZ6A3

My apologies, I need to figure out how to post photos in this "post photobucket" era

Edited by Tentman (12/02/18 04:59 PM)


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Claydog
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Tentman]
      #312251 - 12/02/18 05:47 PM

Here you go Tentman. Sweet little rifle.



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Rothhammer1
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Tentman]
      #312252 - 12/02/18 05:55 PM

Quote:



My apologies, I need to figure out how to post photos in this "post photobucket" era




Try this:

Photos

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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DORLEAC
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Loc: Perpignan, France
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #312264 - 12/02/18 07:56 PM

Dear all,

If I need a very low fixed mounted scope I use that kind of rifle.
We know how to do this type of rifle too and if you want it with a wood stock we are able to build it too !





We had a lot of bad feedback on some Swarovski, but it was still on "assembled in USA" versions.
We have mounted European scopes that hunt around the world and in horribly difficult conditions without problems but it is difficult to draw a definitive conclusion from a hundred or so cases.
Discussing the advantages of US versus Continental products is an endless discussion. We will not compare the merits of Airbus and Boeing, Mercedes and Cadillac, Blaser and Winchester, Zeiss and Leupold ... it is useless and the discussion is barren.
We must admit that everyone has their own culture and respect the choices of each other without wanting to impose his point of view.

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: DORLEAC]
      #312277 - 12/02/18 10:11 PM

Quote:








Are those mounts some form of modern Conetrol mounts?

***



I didn't look at this thread till today, as the Creedmoors aren't usually of much interest to me. Prefer a good old 6.5x55 any day.

Joel, why a 6.5 Creedmoor over the 6.5x55? Because of action length? Or good marketing using a newer cartridge?

Absolutely lovely rifle. I really want to visit oneday, but preferably when I can also bring a deposit for an order!

I think one of these classic Dorleac rifles without open sights, would not be a Dorleac.

I sometimes comment on the excessice sized Euro scopes, but that overal 'picture' doesn't look out of place. As for the scope being too high or not, that would depend on the user and how it fits them.

Again such a lovely rifle.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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DORLEAC
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: NitroX]
      #312278 - 12/02/18 10:17 PM


Nitrox,

The mounts are from GENTRY and the rifle is also a technical 6.5 Creedmoor built on a highly modified RM 700 titanium short action.
Indeed the 6,5x55 Swedish need a standard length action, not a kurz as the one I have used for the above Creedmoor.
I'm working on a top notch 6,5x55 on a very special Original Mauser action...be patient.

All the best.

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com


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Ahmed577
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Loc: Western Australia
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: DORLEAC]
      #312279 - 12/02/18 10:51 PM

I would be pleased to have it scope and all in my camp. Great bait gun.

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Ripp
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: DORLEAC]
      #312284 - 13/02/18 03:06 AM

Quote:


Nitrox,

The mounts are from GENTRY and the rifle is also a technical 6.5 Creedmoor built on a highly modified RM 700 titanium short action.
Indeed the 6,5x55 Swedish need a standard length action, not a kurz as the one I have used for the above Creedmoor.
I'm working on a top notch 6,5x55 on a very special Original Mauser action...be patient.

All the best.

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com




Mr. Gentry is actually in my Jiu-jitsu class every Thursday evening..will shoot him this photo..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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HeymSR20
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Ripp]
      #312292 - 13/02/18 06:36 AM

M Dorleac

Those mounts on the 6.5 Creedmoor - especially the rear mount, did you slim them down use a Mill, or just a good old fashioned file?

I have recently fitted a 1.25-4x20 Schmidt & Bender to my Combination Gun using blanks from Reknagel. A slow but satisfying job and it seems to shoot well and retain zero when scope goes on and off. But the mounts in white a quite blocky and bulky. I keep looking at them, and then go off and do something else. I now have this for driven and its original 6x42 Zeiss for everything else.

re the 3-9x36 - I think Swarovski may be stopping the z3 which will be a shame. I have an older Nova Version mounted on my 275 and its brilliant, and looses nothing to my 4-12x50 Habicht that is on the 243 Heym SR20. I am seriously thinking about rebarreling the latter to either 6.5 Creedmoor or, given its a long action to 6.5x55, and switching the scope to a 42mm version.


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: HeymSR20]
      #312293 - 13/02/18 06:41 AM

It would be a shame if they stopped the Z3 range, they are a big seller here in Australia.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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Ripp
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Daryl_S]
      #312302 - 13/02/18 01:29 PM

Quote:

I like high mounted scopes myself, although not all my rifles have them.
I like to look at the animal or target when practicing, snap the rifle to my shoulder and I am looking at the crosshairs on that animal. My head is held erect, my face not pressed down hard in to the comb just to see through the scope - cheek weld many call it.
For me, that is uncomfortable - I like to shoot standing as I walk - erect.
I agree that when shooting at really long ranges, a lower harder hold might be beneficial, however I don't need it.




Each to their own..but not me..

I despise holding my head high on a firearm in order to look through the scope...there is a big difference between being comfortable and forcing your face into a stock to the point of being uncomfortable..that's why they make low, med and high mounts.. to eliminate this type of hold..

If you need to press your face into the stock your mounts are too low, get the next higher set..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Ripp]
      #312309 - 13/02/18 02:32 PM

Joel, while we are discussing the parts of the grey rifle, who makes the bipod mount?

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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DORLEAC
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Reged: 22/01/12
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Loc: Perpignan, France
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: tinker]
      #312323 - 13/02/18 06:05 PM

Just before going filing some steel…quick replies to your questions:

HeymSR20, the rear mount has been filed by hand, not as a great challenge as it could appear, but the rings are machined before being hand finished.

Waidmannsheil, I meet Swarovski people at Nuremberg IWA next March. They have quality problems with the scopes assembled in USA but I don't think they will stop the Z3 range as they need that 1" tube range of optics for the US and Australian market. Will keep you informed.

tinker, the front bipod attachment is for a STEINERT NeoPod® Ultralight Hunting Bipod http://www.steinertsensingsystems.com/product-details/neopod-ultralight-hunting-bipod/

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com


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Yochanan
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: DORLEAC]
      #312418 - 15/02/18 09:51 AM

Quote:


When we talk about Creedmoor we immediately think of a technical rifle made of high-tech materials, stainless steel, titanium, carbon, kevlar, etc.
I am well placed to know this as I use such a “tool” to hunt in my beloved mountains.
I have been interested in this cartridge since its inception and I can legitimately say that in France I was a forerunner, the majority of gunsmiths preferring to stick to the calibers that have proved their worth!
I had a lot of success and satisfaction hunting with the 6,5 Creedmoor and then I considered building a purely classic rifle for my personal use in this caliber.
I had set aside an Original Mauser “Kurz” receiver, steel in the white and never used ... but lacking the bolt and all the ancillaries.
To replace the missing bolt I used a rough draft from FZH that required a lot of adjustment work but allowed me to benefit from a small diameter firing pin hole.
All the other parts were made from various largely modified period elements that were on hand.
I took advantage of a 6.5x55 1/8" twist match quality barrel blank that I profiled to my taste before chambering it for the 6.5 Creedmoor.
I attach great importance to the metallic sights, which is why this rifle benefits from a combined moon sight at the front and a perfectly regulated rear sight in order to favor the snap shooting I like.
The wood appears much better after its shaping than in blank form and naturally the stock was fashioned very classically Dorleac style.
The scope is a Swarovski Z3 3-10x42 fitted on hand made claw mount, but the most important thing about this rifle, mine now, is its surprising accuracy, a true one holer printing cloverleaves all the day with 143 grains ELD-X…!

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com





























Absolutely gobsmacking rifle...

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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Rothhammer1
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Claydog]
      #312424 - 15/02/18 01:14 PM

Quote:

I think the rifle is gorgeous. I have noticed that Europeans tend to have a "higher faced" shooting position and I have to admit to having no issue with my cheek riding higher on the comb to align with a scope.




Here's how Mauser did it circa 1939:



--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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tinker
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #312425 - 15/02/18 01:37 PM

Thanks Joel!



Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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xausa
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #312426 - 15/02/18 02:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I think the rifle is gorgeous. I have noticed that Europeans tend to have a "higher faced" shooting position and I have to admit to having no issue with my cheek riding higher on the comb to align with a scope.




Here's how Mauser did it circa 1939:






You will note that the Mauser mount has provision for a "see through" feature, which allows the use of iron sights without removing the scope. This was in the day when scopes were considered unreliable additions to the sighting system and preference was given to mounts which allowed unimpeded access to the traditional sighting system. This is no longer the case, and there is no need to compromise stock design to give preference to one system over the other.

Back in the 1930's Griffin & Howe had the same system, with the scope mounted high enough to allow access to iron sights, even with the scope mounted.


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: DORLEAC]
      #312429 - 15/02/18 03:55 PM

Quote:



Waidmannsheil, I meet Swarovski people at Nuremberg IWA next March. They have quality problems with the scopes assembled in USA but I don't think they will stop the Z3 range as they need that 1" tube range of optics for the US and Australian market. Will keep you informed.






Thanks Joel.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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Rothhammer1
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: xausa]
      #312430 - 15/02/18 04:15 PM

Quote:


You will note that the Mauser mount has provision for a "see through" feature, which allows the use of iron sights without removing the scope. This was in the day when scopes were considered unreliable additions to the sighting system and preference was given to mounts which allowed unimpeded access to the traditional sighting system. This is no longer the case, and there is no need to compromise stock design to give preference to one system over the other.

Back in the 1930's Griffin & Howe had the same system, with the scope mounted high enough to allow access to iron sights, even with the scope mounted.




My M1910 Mannlicher Schoenauer has see through claw mounts.

They are excellent for 'snap shooting' as, with the scope mounted, one has the instant option of using the scope (longer shots at slow or stationary targets) or open sights for small fast things. The 'cheek meld' of the pre WW2 MS stock offers an instant sight picture through the iron sights when the rifle is brought to battery.

The Stoeger Catalog page reproduced in my previous post recommends that those with Mauser rifles that were not factory equipped with a scope may use the "special Stoeger Side Mount and Two Piece Mount illustrated and described in this catalog on pages 238 and 245."

The mount shown on page 238 is in the 'high' European style (so much that it generously clears the bolt mounted peep sight shown), the mount on page 245 is considerably lower and does not provide a 'see through' view of the iron sights when mounted.

It seems that, even in 1939, shooters of either preference could be readily accommodated.

From page 238 (1939 Stoeger):


And page 245:





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Claydog
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #312431 - 15/02/18 05:05 PM


My M1910 Mannlicher Schoenauer has see through claw mounts.

They are excellent for 'snap shooting' as, with the scope mounted, one has the instant option of using the scope (longer shots at slow or stationary targets) or open sights for small, fast things. The 'cheek meld' of the pre WW2 MS stock offers an instant sight picture through the iron sights when the rifle is brought to battery.




I find see through mounts awful to use. The thing with open sights is you have that unobstructed field of view that lets you see the big picture as well as the sights. Looking through the mounts takes that away and I find the scope and mounts very distracting when trying to snap shoot. If the scope is there I instinctively look through it no matter how high or low it is. Much prefer to use the claw mounts and just take it off. Actually prefer no mounts at all.


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Rothhammer1
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Claydog]
      #312432 - 15/02/18 05:14 PM

Quote:


The thing with open sights is you have that unobstructed field of view that lets you see the big picture as well as the sights.

Much prefer to use the claw mounts and just take it off. Actually prefer no mounts at all.




Thus the beauty of claw mounts. Versatility.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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Rothhammer1
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #312433 - 15/02/18 05:27 PM


On the topic of 'old school' scopes:


--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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Claydog
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Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #312434 - 15/02/18 06:09 PM

Graticules, don't hear that a lot these days. 1,2 or 3 for me.

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