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DORLEAC
.333 member


Reged: 22/01/12
Posts: 322
Loc: Perpignan, France
6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser
      #306154 - 09/10/17 07:06 PM


When we talk about Creedmoor we immediately think of a technical rifle made of high-tech materials, stainless steel, titanium, carbon, kevlar, etc.
I am well placed to know this as I use such a “tool” to hunt in my beloved mountains.
I have been interested in this cartridge since its inception and I can legitimately say that in France I was a forerunner, the majority of gunsmiths preferring to stick to the calibers that have proved their worth!
I had a lot of success and satisfaction hunting with the 6,5 Creedmoor and then I considered building a purely classic rifle for my personal use in this caliber.
I had set aside an Original Mauser “Kurz” receiver, steel in the white and never used ... but lacking the bolt and all the ancillaries.
To replace the missing bolt I used a rough draft from FZH that required a lot of adjustment work but allowed me to benefit from a small diameter firing pin hole.
All the other parts were made from various largely modified period elements that were on hand.
I took advantage of a 6.5x55 1/8" twist match quality barrel blank that I profiled to my taste before chambering it for the 6.5 Creedmoor.
I attach great importance to the metallic sights, which is why this rifle benefits from a combined moon sight at the front and a perfectly regulated rear sight in order to favor the snap shooting I like.
The wood appears much better after its shaping than in blank form and naturally the stock was fashioned very classically Dorleac style.
The scope is a Swarovski Z3 3-10x42 fitted on hand made claw mount, but the most important thing about this rifle, mine now, is its surprising accuracy, a true one holer printing cloverleaves all the day with 143 grains ELD-X…!

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com


























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Rockdoc
.375 member


Reged: 07/12/06
Posts: 971
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: DORLEAC]
      #306156 - 09/10/17 07:41 PM

Oooh, oooh.

What can I say!

I have a major case of the "I wants!"

Simply stunning.


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Viking338
.333 member


Reged: 11/08/11
Posts: 367
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Rockdoc]
      #306158 - 09/10/17 09:06 PM

I am in love, that is beautiful

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Rigby350
.300 member


Reged: 11/11/08
Posts: 145
Loc: NSW,Australia
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Rockdoc]
      #306159 - 09/10/17 09:10 PM

Amazing rifle, yet another example of a great D&D Rifle.

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Daryl_S
.577 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 17776
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Rigby350]
      #306165 - 10/10/17 04:24 AM

Eye candy!

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 1292
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Daryl_S]
      #306174 - 10/10/17 07:00 AM

Wow Joel, absolutely fantastic. What a lovely rifle to have as your own especially with that Kurtz action, very nice engraving on the floor plate, very tasteful. Thanks for posting.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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93x64mm
.400 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 1170
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Rigby350]
      #306177 - 10/10/17 07:12 AM

Quote:

Amazing rifle, yet another example of a great D&D Rifle.



I don't think anyone could put it better than this!
Fantastic work Mr D as always!


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Ripp
.470 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 9815
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #306181 - 10/10/17 08:30 AM

Quote:

Wow Joel, absolutely fantastic. What a lovely rifle to have as your own especially with that Kurtz action, very nice engraving on the floor plate, very tasteful. Thanks for posting.

Waidmannsheil.




Agreed...stunning work...

AND a nice caliber..was with some friends this weekend of which one of them was using the 6.5 Creedmore for Pronghorn...very nice and efficient cartridge.. worked very well..

Commend you on trying/using newer cartridges...they too need a home..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Homer
.400 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 2149
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Ripp]
      #306183 - 10/10/17 08:44 AM

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Donuts!

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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Eck
.275 member


Reged: 10/09/06
Posts: 55
Loc: Burke, VA
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Homer]
      #306238 - 11/10/17 10:22 PM

That is beautiful!

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Dogfish858
.275 member


Reged: 08/08/15
Posts: 95
Loc: Western Canada
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Eck]
      #306244 - 12/10/17 12:51 AM

What I particularly like about your rifles is they are built free from the sterility that marks a lot of otherwise excellent modern craftsmanship. While D&D have a definite style, it's a living style, and that living 'personal' style isn't seen often in modern firearms. As much as it pains me I think the only improvement on this rifle would be five seasons of hard use!

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?


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Iowa_303
.375 member


Reged: 22/03/13
Posts: 841
Loc: Iowa, USA
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Dogfish858]
      #306790 - 25/10/17 02:05 PM

Another wonderful rifle from the hands of a true craftsman!
I look forward to seeing more of your very talented work.
Thank you sir for sharing your rifle with us.

--------------------
Matt
"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"

"Politicians must be allowed to panic. They need activity. It is their substitute for achievement."


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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1522
Loc: Denmark
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Iowa_303]
      #306833 - 26/10/17 07:33 AM

Sublime.

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HeymSR20
.300 member


Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 134
Loc: Scotland
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: rigbymauser]
      #312115 - 10/02/18 04:01 AM

Just the job for a chamois hunt.

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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 2734
Loc: Colorado
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: HeymSR20]
      #312171 - 11/02/18 03:32 AM

Simply beautiful!
Right down to the waist in the rear scope mount, no detail is overlooked. Wonderful rifle!

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 3642
Loc: Nevada
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Huvius]
      #312172 - 11/02/18 04:02 AM

So very nice!

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 1821
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: DORLEAC]
      #312174 - 11/02/18 04:28 AM

In the past, when I have commented on the size of a scope overwhelming the rifle it is mounted on, you have explained that the scope was the choice of the customer, and I have had to admit that "the customer is always right". However, in this instance, the customer is you, and I can see no possible justification in mounting a totally unnecessary Swarovski Z3 3-10x42 scope with a 42mm objective on a graceful, well designed rifle. Such as scope has its use, I suppose, on a target or varmint rifle, but on a rifle intended for mountain hunting it appears entirely out of place.

This is of course only my opinion, but for me the absolute limit of magnification is 7X (preferably 6X) on such a rifle, and in no case an objective larger than 32mm, with a mount allowing the scope to be situated as low as possible.

It is interesting for me that you talk about a preference for open sights and build a rifle appropriate for snap shooting, only to mount such a monstrosity on top of it. The scope height is clearly inappropriate for a rifle designed for iron sights.

The choice of claw mounts only exacerbates the situation, since the height of front ring only adds to the overall height of the scope, which would not be the case with a pivot or tip off mount, where the front ring could be mounted on the main tube, rather than on the bell.


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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 2734
Loc: Colorado
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: xausa]
      #312175 - 11/02/18 04:57 AM

I think that in this case, the scope, although big, doesn’t overwhelm the lines of the rifle.
The waisted rear mount, as well as using the bell for the front mount allows a lot of air space between the action and the scope which helps make the scoped rifle still look light.
It also allows the use of the standard Oberndorf style bolt handle which is so much more stylish than a scalloped or swept bolt handle that a low scope requires.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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Dogfish858
.275 member


Reged: 08/08/15
Posts: 95
Loc: Western Canada
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Huvius]
      #312180 - 11/02/18 06:49 AM

Lower mounts would require bolt handle alteration and iron sights to be too low, or would require receiver ring obscuring and too-high iron sights. As iron sights would be used for close range, the scope would be used for long range; the stock measurements are set for iron sights. If shooting long range, might as well use the more powerful light gathering of a large scope. This arrangement revolves around the function of the open sights with the scope system secondary yet picked intelligently: if forced to use a scope might as well use a scope that overcomes the deficiency of iron sights well and puts the round to its optimal use.

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?


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DORLEAC
.333 member


Reged: 22/01/12
Posts: 322
Loc: Perpignan, France
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: xausa]
      #312230 - 11/02/18 09:52 PM

Quote:

In the past, when I have commented on the size of a scope overwhelming the rifle it is mounted on, you have explained that the scope was the choice of the customer, and I have had to admit that "the customer is always right". However, in this instance, the customer is you, and I can see no possible justification in mounting a totally unnecessary Swarovski Z3 3-10x42 scope with a 42mm objective on a graceful, well designed rifle. Such as scope has its use, I suppose, on a target or varmint rifle, but on a rifle intended for mountain hunting it appears entirely out of place.

This is of course only my opinion, but for me the absolute limit of magnification is 7X (preferably 6X) on such a rifle, and in no case an objective larger than 32mm, with a mount allowing the scope to be situated as low as possible.

It is interesting for me that you talk about a preference for open sights and build a rifle appropriate for snap shooting, only to mount such a monstrosity on top of it. The scope height is clearly inappropriate for a rifle designed for iron sights.

The choice of claw mounts only exacerbates the situation, since the height of front ring only adds to the overall height of the scope, which would not be the case with a pivot or tip off mount, where the front ring could be mounted on the main tube, rather than on the bell.




xausa,

I hear your criticisms and I respect them.
We have different points of view that relate to our past and the country in which we live and hunt, you in the USA, me in Europe.
First, the discussion you are referring to was about a Zeiss V8, a huge scope on 36mm tube that is not comparable with the Swarovski Z3, a very light powerful scope.
I'm sorry to tell you that, but we prefer to benefit from the excellent quality of the continental optics rather than being forced to use scopes made in the USA (or China) that we don't always appreciate the performances, even if they wear gold rings on front bell...
I loved the excellent 2-7x36 Kahles but it is no longer manufactured today and the last ones we had in stock are now allocated to running projects.
The Z3, either the 3-9x36 or the 3-10x42 is very light and corresponds well to the use that I do in stalking chamois in mountain.
On the other hand you don't imagine the complexity of making a claw mount, a purely European system that requires many hours of work but, when well done, is the most perfect quick detachable mount guaranteeing a rigorous return to zero.
I can't imagine how I could have decked out this rifle with a fixed or (excellent) Talley mount while maintaining the integrity of the action. The rear claw mount base is welded on the receiver bridge without alteration and the front base soldered on the barrel, sparing the harmful modification of the front ring.
Of course, we are able to build a rifle with a small very low scope and a modified bolt handle but in this case we will use a pre-64 W70 action that, unfortunately, does not exist in "kurz" version.
As for the "apparent" height of the assembly it is partly due to the slenderness of the scope tube but it allows keeping intact the Oberndorf bolt handle, even if it has been modified to be lower.
Finally, rest assured, the stock - it is one of our specialty - is well suited to both sighting systems and the weapon is very comfortable to shoot.
Thank you for your comments.

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com


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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1401
Loc: Finland
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: DORLEAC]
      #312231 - 11/02/18 10:38 PM

IMO high quality scope with big objective lens (i.e with more luminous scope) is very usefull when hunting in dusk when sun has gone down. That kind of hunting is very popular in Finland. People sits in high wooden tower waiting deer coming to eat. As I said, this mainly happens in late evening.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/


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HeymSR20
.300 member


Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 134
Loc: Scotland
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Igorrock]
      #312238 - 12/02/18 09:21 AM

It's a pity Khales have stopped the 2-7x36, and I have a feeling Swarovski are stopping the z3 in 3-9x36. I have an older Nova on my rigby in 3-9x36 and love it - to be honest its all the scope any body needs for 95% of hunting. With QD mount the other 5% can be accomplished with open sights. I also have habicht 4-12x50 in a 1' tube - its getting on the bulky side and to be honest I don't think in the dark under the moon or last light I can see any better with it than the 3-9x36 - perhaps I can use a little more magnification.

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Ripp
.470 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 9815
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: DORLEAC]
      #312239 - 12/02/18 10:59 AM

Quote:

Quote:

In the past, when I have commented on the size of a scope overwhelming the rifle it is mounted on, you have explained that the scope was the choice of the customer, and I have had to admit that "the customer is always right". However, in this instance, the customer is you, and I can see no possible justification in mounting a totally unnecessary Swarovski Z3 3-10x42 scope with a 42mm objective on a graceful, well designed rifle. Such as scope has its use, I suppose, on a target or varmint rifle, but on a rifle intended for mountain hunting it appears entirely out of place.

This is of course only my opinion, but for me the absolute limit of magnification is 7X (preferably 6X) on such a rifle, and in no case an objective larger than 32mm, with a mount allowing the scope to be situated as low as possible.

It is interesting for me that you talk about a preference for open sights and build a rifle appropriate for snap shooting, only to mount such a monstrosity on top of it. The scope height is clearly inappropriate for a rifle designed for iron sights.

The choice of claw mounts only exacerbates the situation, since the height of front ring only adds to the overall height of the scope, which would not be the case with a pivot or tip off mount, where the front ring could be mounted on the main tube, rather than on the bell.




xausa,

I hear your criticisms and I respect them.
We have different points of view that relate to our past and the country in which we live and hunt, you in the USA, me in Europe.
First, the discussion you are referring to was about a Zeiss V8, a huge scope on 36mm tube that is not comparable with the Swarovski Z3, a very light powerful scope.
I'm sorry to tell you that, but we prefer to benefit from the excellent quality of the continental optics rather than being forced to use scopes made in the USA (or China) that we don't always appreciate the performances, even if they wear gold rings on front bell...
I loved the excellent 2-7x36 Kahles but it is no longer manufactured today and the last ones we had in stock are now allocated to running projects.
The Z3, either the 3-9x36 or the 3-10x42 is very light and corresponds well to the use that I do in stalking chamois in mountain.
On the other hand you don't imagine the complexity of making a claw mount, a purely European system that requires many hours of work but, when well done, is the most perfect quick detachable mount guaranteeing a rigorous return to zero.
I can't imagine how I could have decked out this rifle with a fixed or (excellent) Talley mount while maintaining the integrity of the action. The rear claw mount base is welded on the receiver bridge without alteration and the front base soldered on the barrel, sparing the harmful modification of the front ring.
Of course, we are able to build a rifle with a small very low scope and a modified bolt handle but in this case we will use a pre-64 W70 action that, unfortunately, does not exist in "kurz" version.
As for the "apparent" height of the assembly it is partly due to the slenderness of the scope tube but it allows keeping intact the Oberndorf bolt handle, even if it has been modified to be lower.
Finally, rest assured, the stock - it is one of our specialty - is well suited to both sighting systems and the weapon is very comfortable to shoot.
Thank you for your comments.

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com



--



I love the lines and beauty of the rifle by itself..incredibly beautiful rifle..however with the scope I must say I am on XAUSA's side on this one and agree with his comments above..

1. If this is a stalking rifle and your objective is to have a lightweight scope such as the Z3, why do you need fixed sights on it in the first place?? Why would I want the extra weight??

2. Secondly, again mtn stalking rifle with the scope so far above the bore is not as conducive to long range shooting, IMHO as a lowered scope would be..again, why the fixed sights..

3. In reference to the "gold ring" and their quality..while I agree to the quality of the glass on Swaro's, and I have a bunch of them, Z5's and Z'6's.. Personally no longer so sure they are that optically superior to the higher end "gold rings" you refer to..

One thing I do know is the tube of the Swaro's is not as rigid/strong as the Leupolds, if you tighten the screws to tight on the rings you can see it bending on the Swaro's, don't see that on the Leupolds..

I have sent 3 Leupolds back to the factory after 40+ years of using them through thousands of rounds of shooting..from p-dog shooting to big game...one of which I bought used so I just sent it in to have it gone over, so to be fair, two that actually needed it... I had a VX-3 in 4.5-14 mounted on my HS Precision chambered in 300 Ultra-mag--I traveled to Africa 4 times with that combo, never had to adjust that scope..in addition to using it all fall long here in Montana hunting deer and elk. I ended up putting a Swaro on it, had to send it back to the factory the first 50 rounds..had the same thing happen putting a Swaro Z5 on my 26 Nosler..also had to send it in for repairs..that was 26 rounds..optical quality is one thing, holding up and remaining functional is quite another..Again, I have both, so no axe to grind..however, the quality you speak of has a few holes in it as well based on my experience..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (12/02/18 11:00 AM)


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Tom_H
.333 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 269
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Ripp]
      #312244 - 12/02/18 12:05 PM

Beautiful rifle.
I understand Xausa's point, and many older European rifles with QD mounts of some sort are scoped impossibly high for consistantly accurate shooting. It is very difficult to create a truly classic rifle that is shootable with both irons and scope without one of them looking odd. My guess is that if you are shooting the scope on this rifle, you can press forward and utilize that part of the comb, also made possible by such a light recoiling cartridge.
It is unfortunate that the bolt handle couldn't be attached below the root, probably dropping the scope by an additional 1/4"+ as it looks like the claws could be decreased by at least that much. Unfortunately, that handle would make it look more like an M-70 than an original Mauser.

I have made claw mounts and it is no simple feat.

I also have a Kurtz that I have hunted with, and between the high scope and a difficult to manipulate safety, it spends most of its time in the safe. If I actually used it as intended, I would be walking to my stand with irons (and the safety wouldn't matter) and click the scope on when I get there (and the mounts wouldn't matter).

There are few people who would have built an entire rifle around that action.
I wish you many seasons of successful hunting with it.

Cheers,
Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny


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Claydog
.375 member


Reged: 17/08/12
Posts: 932
Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...
Re: 6.5 Creedmoor Kurz Mauser [Re: Tom_H]
      #312245 - 12/02/18 03:06 PM

I think the rifle is gorgeous. I have noticed that Europeans tend to have a "higher faced" shooting position and I have to admit to having no issue with my cheek riding higher on the comb to align with a scope. I remember in my younger days shooting a Ruger that had a Kahles 8x56 scope and a bull barrel that had the eye line a good deal above the bore with no ill effects.

Joel's rifle would not be what it is without open sights. It is a stalking rifle not an ultr-light and there is no real point to having claw type mounts without opens as to me that is the whole point of the claws. Happy to concede that 6.5 creedmoor was likely not conceived with open sights in mind but a rifle of that style would look semi naked without open sights. Like wise no other style of mount would be the same. If the intent was to make only a purely functional mountain rifle things may well be different but I see this as a melting together of classic lines and modern performance.


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