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458Win
.333 member

Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska

1905 Jeffery 404
#226111 - 28/02/13 05:56 PM

I recently came across a very early 404 Jeffery made in 1905 that was built on a standard M-98 action. The rifle weighs under 8 1/2 pounds and the action had the sides of the receiver cut out and the front and rear of the action opened to accept the larger 404 round. Even without any additional recoil lugs or cross bolts the stock is solid.

Edited by CptCurl (07/06/13 10:08 PM)

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 458Win]
#226112 - 28/02/13 06:22 PM

Very nice indeed

That would be an early one ?

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casper50
.400 member

Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 500Nitro]
#226121 - 28/02/13 09:14 PM

That's a nice looking rifle. The front sling stud is differnt. I like it.

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lancaster
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Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: casper50]
#226123 - 28/02/13 09:31 PM

honest rifle for sure

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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A10ACN
.300 member

Reged: 30/01/05
Posts: 198
Loc: USA

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 500Nitro]
#226161 - 01/03/13 03:31 AM

Quote:

Very nice indeed

That would be an early one ?

I ask the same. I was under the impression they didn't start using standard actions for 404s and 333s until they had problems getting magnum actions. How was the 1905 date determined??

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A10ACN
.300 member

Reged: 30/01/05
Posts: 198
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Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: A10ACN]
#226164 - 01/03/13 03:49 AM

Phil, that is a cool rifle. Looks great! A brother to my own, but I think better looking stock on this one.

Now, not to come across as an azz, just a student, but I ran a quick search for .404 Jeffery cartridge and came up with 1909 as the intro date. I wonder if this was an early Jeffery rifle in another caliber and was rebarreled to .404 by Jeffery later?

Neat rifle, no matter what.

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justcurious
.333 member

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Posts: 285
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Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 458Win]
#226165 - 01/03/13 03:59 AM

Quote:

..... The rifle weighs under 8 1/2 pounds....

Oh My Lord ,they spent a lot of work to build the rifle as light as possible. At least concerning the action.

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458Win
.333 member

Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: justcurious]
#226167 - 01/03/13 04:16 AM

From my research and understanding 1905 was the date the 404 was introduced by Jeffery and since Rigby was the sole importer of commercial Mauser actions many makers chose to "mutilate military Mausers" ( as Rigby called it ) rather than pay the price Rigby was demanding for properly demintioned actions.
The Jeffery serial number, on both the action and barrel, places this rifle as being made in 1905.

it is certainly a slim and handy rifle that has obvioulsy been well used but remains solid and serviceable.

This then would be the rifle that set the bench mark for Rigby when they decided to build their 416 and for H&H when they offered their magnum 375.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

Edited by 458Win (01/03/13 05:13 AM)

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MarkPoley
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Reged: 22/05/12
Posts: 35
Loc: Yellville, Arkansas

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 458Win]
#226170 - 01/03/13 04:47 AM

Very nice rifle. They certianly didn't leave much of the magizine box in that conversion. Thanks for sharing. Mark

--------------------
Acts 4: 12-13 ; Rom. 8:29

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VonGruff
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Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: MarkPoley]
#226171 - 01/03/13 05:41 AM

What a grand old rifle. Is there any indication of its history (as in where did it "live and work") other than the serial number.
You would have to think that there would be 4 down in the magazine down like that and with that weight it was obviously made to be in hand a long time each day so a lot of hunting was envisioned for this rifle when it was built. Anyone have access to the Jeffery records that might shed more light on this find - original client etc?

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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JohnTheGreek
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Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: VonGruff]
#226173 - 01/03/13 06:16 AM

Geez that's super nice!

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MikeRowe
.333 member

Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: JohnTheGreek]
#226175 - 01/03/13 06:50 AM

Jeffrey's obviously got it right from the get go, that old rifle has obviously got the job done and is still with us.

Is she three or four down?

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Caprivi
.375 member

Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: MikeRowe]
#226176 - 01/03/13 07:23 AM

Love it Phil, in my perferred over-all condition. Looks like most of mine. That is a rifle who has had a good life.

I have only handled 1 original 404, a Vickers, and it was on a "military" standard size M98 as well.
I "stole" your pictures for future reference.

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

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500Nitro
.450 member

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Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: Caprivi]
#226177 - 01/03/13 07:29 AM

In a lot of ways I'd prefer to own something
like this gun than some fancy custom or H&H.

Character, history, it's just got it.

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 458Win]
#226178 - 01/03/13 07:39 AM

I like the long stepped barrel. I wish my Dakota was 26"

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Caprivi
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Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 500Nitro]
#226191 - 01/03/13 11:29 AM

Quote:

In a lot of ways I'd prefer to own something
like this gun than some fancy custom or H&H.

Character, history, it's just got it.

AGREED..............:)

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

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eagle27
.400 member

Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: A10ACN]
#226205 - 01/03/13 04:14 PM

Quote:

Phil, that is a cool rifle. Looks great! A brother to my own, but I think better looking stock on this one.

Now, not to come across as an azz, just a student, but I ran a quick search for .404 Jeffery cartridge and came up with 1909 as the intro date. I wonder if this was an early Jeffery rifle in another caliber and was rebarreled to .404 by Jeffery later?

Neat rifle, no matter what.

The date of introduction of the .404 cartridge by Jeffery has been a topic for discussion for some time with confusion of what was the true date.

What seems to be the accepted facts now is that 1905 was the date of introduction of the first rifles in the then new cartridge designed by Jeffery made up on a standard M98 action, this is coming mainly from a copy of a page from an early catalogue that has been posted on this and other forums before, advertising "The New .404 Rifle - Jeffery Mauser Magazine Rifle 1905 Model".

It seems generally accepted that 1909 was the date when Mauser made magnum actions available to the general trade instead of exclusively through Rigby as had been the case up until then and was possibly the same date that the Type A Oberndorf Sporting Mausers in .404 were introduced by the Mauser factory. Hence once these rifles hit the market the date 1909 was the one commonly referred as the introduction of the .404J.

Some other research on development of the cartridge has backed up the true date more likely being 1905, making the .404J the first of the true big bore dangerous game nitro cartridges made for the bolt action.

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eagle27
.400 member

Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 458Win]
#226206 - 01/03/13 04:29 PM

Quote:

I recently came across a very early 404 Jeffery made in 1905 that was built on a standard M-98 action. The rifle weighs under 8 1/2 pounds and the action had the sides of the receiver cut out and the front and rear of the action opened to accept the larger 404 round. Even without any additional recoil lugs or cross bolts the stock is solid.

A very nice rifle to own steeped in history I bet.

I am surprised how much has been taken out of the action on top to fit the cartridge to the standard M98 Mauser action. The charging hump wings and action rear have been milled off to the extent of exposing the rear of the extractor. I have been led to believe that there were two lengths of extractor used although I do not know if this is true. Quite sizable milling has been done on the rear face of the receiver ring which of course is the backing for the top locking lug recess. Some of the Oberndorf Sporting Mausers in 30.06 calibre had a small notch in the receiver ring to give clearance to the bullet nose but certainly nowhere near aggressive as shown in the photos of this rifle.

My own Mauser standard M98 opened up for the .404 cartridge appears to have had very little modification to the receiver ring or the charging hump, which would still accommodate charging clips. Most of the opening up on mine has been to the feed ramp and magazine box and the guide rails don't seemed to have been touched much either.

Would be interested to see a photo into the magazine with the bolt open on the 1905 model to see what has been opened up below.

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casper50
.400 member

Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: eagle27]
#226210 - 01/03/13 07:44 PM

Here's some of my G.E. Lewis .404 on a G.E.W. action

Edited by CptCurl (07/06/13 10:09 PM)

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justcurious
.333 member

Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 285
Loc: Germany

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: eagle27]
#226212 - 01/03/13 08:58 PM

On the second picture from below(1905 model) you can use the backside of the front receiver ring as a guideline for the amount of opening up the action on the front side.

I´ve added a picture from below showing an original commercial Oberndorf action that was made for the 7x64 Brennecke and the US 30/06.
The magazine boxes for these actions measured 88mm lengthwise opposed to the "normal" 84mm of the standard actions.

I believe that is the maximum without reducing safety.

Edited by CptCurl (07/06/13 10:10 PM)

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SAHUNT
Sponsor

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Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: justcurious]
#226214 - 01/03/13 10:26 PM

If this rifle could speak, all the wonderings and history locked up in this fine rifle.

Very interesting tread.

--------------------
Life is how you pass the time between hunting trips.
Sometimes I do not express myself properly in the English language, please forgive me, I am just a boertjie.
Jaco Human
jacohu@mweb.co.za
SA Hunting Experience

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458Win
.333 member

Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: SAHUNT]
#226228 - 02/03/13 03:22 AM

Here are three more photos of the rifle showing the action
You can see in the center one where the wood stock forms the sides of the magazine box.

The rifle is very slim, lightweight and quick handling compared with the 416 Rigby built on the magnum Mauser action.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

Edited by CptCurl (07/06/13 10:12 PM)

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Sville
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Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 458Win]
#226232 - 02/03/13 04:43 AM

Great to see these pics, a very classical caliber and useful....

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eagle27
.400 member

Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: Sville]
#226237 - 02/03/13 07:10 AM

Thanks 458Win for the photo update. The amount of opening up to the front feed ramp is virtually identical as mine but I wonder why so much was milled out from the top of the receiver ring and the charger clip guides milled away completely. Mine as you can see in the photos below has not been touched in these ares and has no problem loading cartridges into the magazine from the top or ejecting empty cases.

I have often wondered what effect on the strength of the bolt lock up the fairly severe milling away of the feed ramp/bottom lug area has when looking at my rifle but it seems this is the common way of opening up the standard action. My comfort has always been that the top bolt lug recess quite massive and full strenth.
The action shown by Casper50 is the same in the feed ramp work. I also have some photos of a Win M70 opened up and the same method has been used with a lot taken off the feed ramp.

I wonder just how Rigby (or someone) opened up the standard M98 to fit the 416 Rigby cartridge as they did for Harry Selby's rather famous rifle?

Type A Oberndorf Mauser opened up for the 404J

Edited by CptCurl (07/06/13 10:13 PM)

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Dave93
.224 member

Reged: 16/02/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Big Sky Country

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: eagle27]
#226358 - 04/03/13 01:35 AM

Phil, did that .404 see use in Alaska by chance?? The speckled finish would seem to suggest use in humid enviroment.

All you guys that furnished the close up photos. Thanks. Love to see how they modified actions to suit a cartridge. Love those Mausers.

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deepwoods
.275 member

Reged: 21/12/12
Posts: 75
Loc: nh

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: Dave93]
#226379 - 04/03/13 09:26 AM

Very nice rifle 458Win. Do you plan on shooting the rifle?

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458Win
.333 member

Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: deepwoods]
#226400 - 04/03/13 04:28 PM

I would like to use it on a bear hunt or two. The 404 is a fantastic round.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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Rule303
.416 member

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Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 458Win]
#226413 - 04/03/13 08:32 PM

458Win that is a rifle anybody should be proud to own and in a great cartridge. So would that Rigby you have pictured.

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deepwoods
.275 member

Reged: 21/12/12
Posts: 75
Loc: nh

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: Rule303]
#226426 - 05/03/13 08:03 AM

Good to here your going to use it. I picked up a 9.3x62 type A I hope to use on a moose Hunt (if I get picked for the moose lottery here).

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casper50
.400 member

Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: deepwoods]
#226428 - 05/03/13 08:14 AM

My 404 went moose hunting with me last year. No luck. Going again this year and will also have a chance at a grizzly.

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pjaln
.375 member

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Posts: 708
Loc: massachusetts ,U.S.A.

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: casper50]
#226430 - 05/03/13 08:39 AM

if not an early oberndorf action,,it certainly looks like an oberndorf bolt handle ....paqul

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458Win
.333 member

Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: pjaln]
#226567 - 08/03/13 03:00 AM

I just received more information on the rifle's history from the guy I bought it from. It was purchased in the early 1900's specifically for an Alaskan brown bear hunt and was still in use by the family for elk hunting a couple years ago. So I guess my continuing to use it for that purpose should be just fine.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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458Win
.333 member

Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 458Win]
#226768 - 11/03/13 05:41 AM

Just received an old poem from Lon Paul credited to Podraza that I thought would be a nice addition

It rested between the Ivory
That hung on Grandpa's wall
It's finally checked and yellowed
Like the tusks it helped to fall

It's barrel smooth and polished
From a hundred bearers hands
It reflected the light warmly
Like campfires flickering brands

The stock of English walnut
Chewed and clawed a bit
It still showed a trace of checkering
an a dent where a horn had hit

Stamped on the barrel lightly
Was a name and not much more
A single word "Jeffery"
"Jeffery .404"

If that rifle could only talk
And take us back once again
With grandpa in Africa
A time of Buffalo,Elephants and men

But that day has set it's sun
And the rifle speaks no more
Oh what I'd give for one last time
To hear it's mighty roar

Grandpa's "Jeffery"
His "Jeffery .404"

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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tophet1
.400 member

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Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: Dave93]
#226780 - 11/03/13 08:04 AM

Great rifle and the lack of weight makes it interesting/attractive.

Unless your using stripper clips (my son does), the guides are useless and I'm planning on having them removed on my next (still collecting parts) custom rifle build. The weight saving would be minimal but for a quick top up when using just express sights I'd welcome the extra opening.

There seem to be a lot of opened up Mauser actions that 'when done correctly' are perfectly safe and feed correctly. Having grown sceptical of most gun and hunting myths, I wonder if a lot of nay-sayers are either lazy gunsmiths or sellers of magnum length actions. Maybe I'm just getting old.

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Caprivi
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Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: tophet1]
#226782 - 11/03/13 08:29 AM

Quote:

Great rifle and the lack of weight makes it interesting/attractive.

Unless your using stripper clips (my son does), the guides are useless and I'm planning on having them removed on my next (still collecting parts) custom rifle build. The weight saving would be minimal but for a quick top up when using just express sights I'd welcome the extra opening.

There seem to be a lot of opened up Mauser actions that 'when done correctly' are perfectly safe and feed correctly. Having grown sceptical of most gun and hunting myths, I wonder if a lot of nay-sayers are either lazy gunsmiths or sellers of magnum length actions. Maybe I'm just getting old.

I concur totally, especially with the last paragraph. For sure I am getting "old"...:):):)

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

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A10ACN
.300 member

Reged: 30/01/05
Posts: 198
Loc: USA

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 458Win]
#226842 - 12/03/13 02:22 AM

Quote:

I just received more information on the rifle's history from the guy I bought it from. It was purchased in the early 1900's specifically for an Alaskan brown bear hunt and was still in use by the family for elk hunting a couple years ago. So I guess my continuing to use it for that purpose should be just fine.

THAT is way cool! A Jeffery for America! Way, way cool!

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458Win
.333 member

Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: A10ACN]
#226892 - 12/03/13 01:28 PM

Here is another closeup of how Jeffery inletted a steel place into the front of the wood magazine box to protect the wood.

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NitroX
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Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: A10ACN]
#226893 - 12/03/13 01:30 PM

Phil

Very nice historical .404 and still being used for what it was originally purchased for is great.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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458Win
.333 member

Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: NitroX]
#228391 - 09/04/13 12:33 PM

Received an e-mail from Jeffery and this rifle, with it's 24" bbl, was completed Jan 1907 and from their descriptions it is still comletely original.
Other than the oily rag and loaded round of Kynoch ammo in the butt trap.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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Caprivi
.375 member

Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 458Win]
#228393 - 09/04/13 12:55 PM

Hey Phil,
With no spring season this year, what will be its first trip to the Bush ???

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

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458Win
.333 member

Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: Caprivi]
#228395 - 09/04/13 01:01 PM

I have been picking up supplies and am finishing up aircraft annuals this week. Hope to take either the Jeffery or Lee Speed out after black bears later this month, then out to camp till Nov

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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CWJ1898
.275 member

Reged: 28/01/09
Posts: 63
Loc: LA, USA

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 458Win]
#229113 - 21/04/13 10:56 AM

.458WIN,
Thank you for sharing the poem, it says it all- a truly fantastic cartridge.

Kindest regards...

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: CWJ1898]
#229144 - 21/04/13 11:33 PM

Quote:

.458WIN,
Thank you for sharing the poem, it says it all- a truly fantastic cartridge.

Kindest regards...

Agree totally /..and a great gun--thank you

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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458Win
.333 member

Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: Ripp]
#229655 - 03/05/13 10:41 AM

While I intend to carry the Jeffery some this season, I also plan on carrying one of Ruger's 416 African rifles as well.
It is amazing just how similiar they are in weight, balance and power.

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Claydog
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Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: Dave93]
#231424 - 21/06/13 02:35 PM

I recently purchased the Jeffery 404 in this photo and noticed it was very similar to the one in this post. Proof marks are identical but only has W J Jeffery engraved on the barrel and action. No address. Mine looks to be made as a plain working rifle. The stock timber looks plainer than the one in the post. The interesting thing was the serial number on mine is 16706 which looks to be the one after the one in the post.

Edited by CptCurl (30/12/13 03:24 AM)

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eagle27
.400 member

Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: Claydog]
#231426 - 21/06/13 04:32 PM

Nice photo Claydog, the 404 doing just what 404s do so well.

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tophet1
.400 member

Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: Claydog]
#231427 - 21/06/13 04:58 PM

Quote:

I recently purchased the Jeffery 404 in this photo and noticed it was very similar to the one in this post. Proof marks are identical but only has W J Jeffery engraved on the barrel and action. No address. Mine looks to be made as a plain working rifle. The stock timber looks plainer than the one in the post. The interesting thing was the serial number on mine is 16706 which looks to be the one after the one in the post.

What are the odds eh ? Sequential rifles in opposite ends of the Commonwealth.

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MagnumHunter
.275 member

Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 63
Loc: North Carolina, USA

Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: Dave93]
#320085 - 26/09/18 12:10 PM

I have been searching for this thread for a couple of days. Been looking at some photos of a friend's .333 because Jeffery cut the magazine front out of it to accommodate the long round. I remembered this thread of the magazine box cut away and wanted to find it again. Did they use the military follower or is it a wider one? Same with the floor-plate? From the looks of the photos the magazine mortise may not be inletted as wide as would be to accommodate the magazine box if it were complete. Certainly an interesting rifle and grand specimen of a classic builder.

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