Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: 1905 Jeffery 404

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***
You are not logged in. [Login] Main Index · Search · Active Topics
New user · Who's Online · FAQ · Calendar

Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Forum Photos & Archive
Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)
458Win
.333 member


Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska
1905 Jeffery 404
      #226111 - 28/02/13 05:56 PM

I recently came across a very early 404 Jeffery made in 1905 that was built on a standard M-98 action. The rifle weighs under 8 1/2 pounds and the action had the sides of the receiver cut out and the front and rear of the action opened to accept the larger 404 round. Even without any additional recoil lugs or cross bolts the stock is solid.











Edited by CptCurl (07/06/13 10:08 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 458Win]
      #226112 - 28/02/13 06:22 PM


Very nice indeed

That would be an early one ?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
casper50
.400 member


Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 500Nitro]
      #226121 - 28/02/13 09:14 PM

That's a nice looking rifle. The front sling stud is differnt. I like it.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8726
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: casper50]
      #226123 - 28/02/13 09:31 PM

honest rifle for sure

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
A10ACN
.300 member


Reged: 30/01/05
Posts: 198
Loc: USA
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 500Nitro]
      #226161 - 01/03/13 03:31 AM

Quote:


Very nice indeed

That would be an early one ?



I ask the same. I was under the impression they didn't start using standard actions for 404s and 333s until they had problems getting magnum actions. How was the 1905 date determined??

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
A10ACN
.300 member


Reged: 30/01/05
Posts: 198
Loc: USA
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: A10ACN]
      #226164 - 01/03/13 03:49 AM

Phil, that is a cool rifle. Looks great! A brother to my own, but I think better looking stock on this one.

Now, not to come across as an azz, just a student, but I ran a quick search for .404 Jeffery cartridge and came up with 1909 as the intro date. I wonder if this was an early Jeffery rifle in another caliber and was rebarreled to .404 by Jeffery later?

Neat rifle, no matter what.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
justcurious
.333 member


Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 285
Loc: Germany
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 458Win]
      #226165 - 01/03/13 03:59 AM

Quote:

..... The rifle weighs under 8 1/2 pounds....



Oh My Lord ,they spent a lot of work to build the rifle as light as possible. At least concerning the action.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
458Win
.333 member


Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: justcurious]
      #226167 - 01/03/13 04:16 AM

From my research and understanding 1905 was the date the 404 was introduced by Jeffery and since Rigby was the sole importer of commercial Mauser actions many makers chose to "mutilate military Mausers" ( as Rigby called it ) rather than pay the price Rigby was demanding for properly demintioned actions.
The Jeffery serial number, on both the action and barrel, places this rifle as being made in 1905.

it is certainly a slim and handy rifle that has obvioulsy been well used but remains solid and serviceable.

This then would be the rifle that set the bench mark for Rigby when they decided to build their 416 and for H&H when they offered their magnum 375.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

Edited by 458Win (01/03/13 05:13 AM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
MarkPoley
.224 member


Reged: 22/05/12
Posts: 35
Loc: Yellville, Arkansas
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 458Win]
      #226170 - 01/03/13 04:47 AM

Very nice rifle. They certianly didn't leave much of the magizine box in that conversion. Thanks for sharing. Mark

--------------------
Acts 4: 12-13 ; Rom. 8:29

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
VonGruff
.400 member


Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: MarkPoley]
      #226171 - 01/03/13 05:41 AM

What a grand old rifle. Is there any indication of its history (as in where did it "live and work") other than the serial number.
You would have to think that there would be 4 down in the magazine down like that and with that weight it was obviously made to be in hand a long time each day so a lot of hunting was envisioned for this rifle when it was built. Anyone have access to the Jeffery records that might shed more light on this find - original client etc?

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JohnTheGreek
.300 member


Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: VonGruff]
      #226173 - 01/03/13 06:16 AM

Geez that's super nice!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
MikeRowe
.333 member


Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: JohnTheGreek]
      #226175 - 01/03/13 06:50 AM

Jeffrey's obviously got it right from the get go, that old rifle has obviously got the job done and is still with us.

Is she three or four down?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Caprivi
.375 member


Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: MikeRowe]
      #226176 - 01/03/13 07:23 AM

Love it Phil, in my perferred over-all condition. Looks like most of mine. That is a rifle who has had a good life.

I have only handled 1 original 404, a Vickers, and it was on a "military" standard size M98 as well.
I "stole" your pictures for future reference.

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: Caprivi]
      #226177 - 01/03/13 07:29 AM



In a lot of ways I'd prefer to own something
like this gun than some fancy custom or H&H.

Character, history, it's just got it.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 458Win]
      #226178 - 01/03/13 07:39 AM

I like the long stepped barrel. I wish my Dakota was 26"

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Caprivi
.375 member


Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 500Nitro]
      #226191 - 01/03/13 11:29 AM

Quote:



In a lot of ways I'd prefer to own something
like this gun than some fancy custom or H&H.

Character, history, it's just got it.



AGREED..............:)

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
eagle27
.400 member


Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: A10ACN]
      #226205 - 01/03/13 04:14 PM

Quote:

Phil, that is a cool rifle. Looks great! A brother to my own, but I think better looking stock on this one.

Now, not to come across as an azz, just a student, but I ran a quick search for .404 Jeffery cartridge and came up with 1909 as the intro date. I wonder if this was an early Jeffery rifle in another caliber and was rebarreled to .404 by Jeffery later?

Neat rifle, no matter what.



The date of introduction of the .404 cartridge by Jeffery has been a topic for discussion for some time with confusion of what was the true date.

What seems to be the accepted facts now is that 1905 was the date of introduction of the first rifles in the then new cartridge designed by Jeffery made up on a standard M98 action, this is coming mainly from a copy of a page from an early catalogue that has been posted on this and other forums before, advertising "The New .404 Rifle - Jeffery Mauser Magazine Rifle 1905 Model".

It seems generally accepted that 1909 was the date when Mauser made magnum actions available to the general trade instead of exclusively through Rigby as had been the case up until then and was possibly the same date that the Type A Oberndorf Sporting Mausers in .404 were introduced by the Mauser factory. Hence once these rifles hit the market the date 1909 was the one commonly referred as the introduction of the .404J.

Some other research on development of the cartridge has backed up the true date more likely being 1905, making the .404J the first of the true big bore dangerous game nitro cartridges made for the bolt action.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
eagle27
.400 member


Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 458Win]
      #226206 - 01/03/13 04:29 PM

Quote:

I recently came across a very early 404 Jeffery made in 1905 that was built on a standard M-98 action. The rifle weighs under 8 1/2 pounds and the action had the sides of the receiver cut out and the front and rear of the action opened to accept the larger 404 round. Even without any additional recoil lugs or cross bolts the stock is solid.



A very nice rifle to own steeped in history I bet.

I am surprised how much has been taken out of the action on top to fit the cartridge to the standard M98 Mauser action. The charging hump wings and action rear have been milled off to the extent of exposing the rear of the extractor. I have been led to believe that there were two lengths of extractor used although I do not know if this is true. Quite sizable milling has been done on the rear face of the receiver ring which of course is the backing for the top locking lug recess. Some of the Oberndorf Sporting Mausers in 30.06 calibre had a small notch in the receiver ring to give clearance to the bullet nose but certainly nowhere near aggressive as shown in the photos of this rifle.

My own Mauser standard M98 opened up for the .404 cartridge appears to have had very little modification to the receiver ring or the charging hump, which would still accommodate charging clips. Most of the opening up on mine has been to the feed ramp and magazine box and the guide rails don't seemed to have been touched much either.

Would be interested to see a photo into the magazine with the bolt open on the 1905 model to see what has been opened up below.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
casper50
.400 member


Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: eagle27]
      #226210 - 01/03/13 07:44 PM

Here's some of my G.E. Lewis .404 on a G.E.W. action





Edited by CptCurl (07/06/13 10:09 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
justcurious
.333 member


Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 285
Loc: Germany
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: eagle27]
      #226212 - 01/03/13 08:58 PM

On the second picture from below(1905 model) you can use the backside of the front receiver ring as a guideline for the amount of opening up the action on the front side.

I´ve added a picture from below showing an original commercial Oberndorf action that was made for the 7x64 Brennecke and the US 30/06.
The magazine boxes for these actions measured 88mm lengthwise opposed to the "normal" 84mm of the standard actions.

I believe that is the maximum without reducing safety.





Edited by CptCurl (07/06/13 10:10 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
SAHUNT
Sponsor


Reged: 27/12/04
Posts: 900
Loc: Centurion, RSA
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: justcurious]
      #226214 - 01/03/13 10:26 PM

If this rifle could speak, all the wonderings and history locked up in this fine rifle.

Very interesting tread.

--------------------
Life is how you pass the time between hunting trips.
Sometimes I do not express myself properly in the English language, please forgive me, I am just a boertjie.
Jaco Human
jacohu@mweb.co.za
SA Hunting Experience

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
458Win
.333 member


Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: SAHUNT]
      #226228 - 02/03/13 03:22 AM

Here are three more photos of the rifle showing the action
You can see in the center one where the wood stock forms the sides of the magazine box.








The rifle is very slim, lightweight and quick handling compared with the 416 Rigby built on the magnum Mauser action.



--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

Edited by CptCurl (07/06/13 10:12 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sville
.400 member


Reged: 23/03/10
Posts: 1189
Loc: Sweden
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: 458Win]
      #226232 - 02/03/13 04:43 AM

Great to see these pics, a very classical caliber and useful....

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
eagle27
.400 member


Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: Sville]
      #226237 - 02/03/13 07:10 AM

Thanks 458Win for the photo update. The amount of opening up to the front feed ramp is virtually identical as mine but I wonder why so much was milled out from the top of the receiver ring and the charger clip guides milled away completely. Mine as you can see in the photos below has not been touched in these ares and has no problem loading cartridges into the magazine from the top or ejecting empty cases.

I have often wondered what effect on the strength of the bolt lock up the fairly severe milling away of the feed ramp/bottom lug area has when looking at my rifle but it seems this is the common way of opening up the standard action. My comfort has always been that the top bolt lug recess quite massive and full strenth.
The action shown by Casper50 is the same in the feed ramp work. I also have some photos of a Win M70 opened up and the same method has been used with a lot taken off the feed ramp.

I wonder just how Rigby (or someone) opened up the standard M98 to fit the 416 Rigby cartridge as they did for Harry Selby's rather famous rifle?

Type A Oberndorf Mauser opened up for the 404J







Edited by CptCurl (07/06/13 10:13 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dave93
.224 member


Reged: 16/02/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Big Sky Country
Re: 1905 Jeffery 404 [Re: eagle27]
      #226358 - 04/03/13 01:35 AM

Phil, did that .404 see use in Alaska by chance?? The speckled finish would seem to suggest use in humid enviroment.

All you guys that furnished the close up photos. Thanks. Love to see how they modified actions to suit a cartridge. Love those Mausers.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)


Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Extra information
0 registered and 17 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  CptCurl 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 37655

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved