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93x64mm
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: lancaster]
      #381835 - 09/01/24 07:03 AM

That would have a bark alright with such a short barrel!
Great mountain rifle though.


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DarylS
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: 93x64mm]
      #381850 - 10/01/24 01:24 AM

I am reminded now, of a local chap who has a M93 commercially turned into a .308 Winchester. I've no idea where he got it from.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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lancaster
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: DarylS]
      #381852 - 10/01/24 03:21 AM

with a mannlicher M 93 the problem would be the en-block clip for the 6,5x53R. I don't know if it was possible to change it for the 308 win case. the so called irisch mannlicher M 1904 would be the right thing for this modification.
this was a M 93 where the magazine was changed by the Steyr factory for the german M 88 commission rifle clip.


http://www.hungariae.com/Mann04.htm

and

https://www.highwoodclassicarms.co.uk/Firerms%20For%20Sale/0067.htm

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
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DarylS
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: lancaster]
      #381853 - 10/01/24 08:18 AM

I'm pretty sure it is a Mauser M93. It's not a 94 or 96.
Just googled the Mauser 93 NOPE! I must have been a rebarreled Carcano due to the bolt being identical to a Carcano. What was done with the en-block magazine, I don't remember.
The bolt was NOT a Mauser bolt.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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lancaster
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: DarylS]
      #381864 - 11/01/24 03:21 AM

M 93 is the spanish mauser and some of them got a new barrel in 7,62 Nato /308 Win in the 1950/60s so the mystery and misunderstanding is loosed

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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9.3x57
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: lancaster]
      #381865 - 11/01/24 03:33 AM

Quote:

M 93 is the spanish mauser and some of them got a new barrel in 7,62 Nato /308 Win in the 1950/60s so the mystery and misunderstanding is loosed




No mystery here. Tons of those small ring Mausers were sold here. Back in the 90's they were dirt cheap. Spanish .308s on the small ring actions. Some 91's also along with Turkish 93's and of course Spanish & Turkish 98 actions rebarreled to .308.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9.3x57 (11/01/24 03:37 AM)


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DarylS
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: 9.3x57]
      #381866 - 11/01/24 04:58 AM

Well, thanks. There ya go! But, it did not have the bolt shroud of the Model 94's and 96's.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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9.3x57
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: DarylS]
      #381868 - 11/01/24 05:15 AM

Quote:

Well, thanks. There ya go! But, it did not have the bolt shroud of the Model 94's and 96's.




The 91 has a similar BS as the 94's etc. It does not have the long claw extractor. You can just make out the small extractor in this pic:



Did the bolt handle lock down behind or thru/in front of the rear receiver ring, ie, was the rear receiver ring split? If so I wonder if it was a rebarreled Portuguese Mauser-Vergueiro (which is actually a blended Mannlicher/Mauser)?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9.3x57 (11/01/24 06:31 AM)


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lancaster
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: 9.3x57]
      #381870 - 11/01/24 07:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:

M 93 is the spanish mauser and some of them got a new barrel in 7,62 Nato /308 Win in the 1950/60s so the mystery and misunderstanding is loosed




No mystery here. Tons of those small ring Mausers were sold here. Back in the 90's they were dirt cheap. Spanish .308s on the small ring actions. Some 91's also along with Turkish 93's and of course Spanish & Turkish 98 actions rebarreled to .308.




the mystery was that daryl mention a M 93 "I am reminded now, of a local chap who has a M93 commercially turned into a .308 Winchester. I've no idea where he got it from." which I identified here naturally as a Mannlicher M 93 ( the Romania Mannlicher). this would have been a little problem if reworked for the 308 Win so I suggest the Mannlicher M 1904 in 8x57I.
in the early 90s a M 93 spanisch mauser in 308 came close to be my first rifle for this cartridge but the dealer don't get it then and I bought a FR 8.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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JDL
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: casper50]
      #381898 - 13/01/24 02:53 AM

I love looking at these old war relics converted to nice looking hunting rifles. Thanks lancaster!

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9.3x57
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: JDL]
      #381901 - 13/01/24 03:17 AM

Quote:

I love looking at these old war relics converted to nice looking hunting rifles. Thanks lancaster!




I agree. lancaster's threads of Euro rifles are awesome.

We have innumerable examples here, thousands and thousands of "converted" milsurp rifles to hunting rifles but w/ a huge difference, that being except for a very few action types the VAST preponderance of them are basement hacksaw jobs, not the skilled gunsmith reworks lanc posts from over there. I had really no idea such a body of high quality modifications even existed in Europe until I started following lancasters threads. His are tops!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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93x64mm
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: 9.3x57]
      #381911 - 13/01/24 07:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I love looking at these old war relics converted to nice looking hunting rifles. Thanks lancaster!




I agree. lancaster's threads of Euro rifles are awesome.

We have innumerable examples here, thousands and thousands of "converted" milsurp rifles to hunting rifles but w/ a huge difference, that being except for a very few action types the VAST preponderance of them are basement hacksaw jobs, not the skilled gunsmith reworks lanc posts from over there. I had really no idea such a body of high quality modifications even existed in Europe until I started following lancasters threads. His are tops!




Nailed it mate!
Keep send them in Lancaster


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lancaster
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: 93x64mm]
      #382470 - 12/02/24 02:46 AM

thanks, I see them anyway when watching the market so its on the way to safe the pics for the future.
in the case of the carcarno it was a reminder of the economic hard postwar years when such military rifles, often hid somewhere for a long time were taken to the gunmaker to become the initial outfiting.
nobody realy work about this topic before so its a kind of basic to get some knowledge what happen.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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9.3x57
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: lancaster]
      #382471 - 12/02/24 03:20 AM

This is a tidbit of info I find interesting in relation to your posts.

https://www.verfassungen.de/de45-49/kr-befehl2.htm

Controls were lifted it appears in the West in 1950. Were military surplus rifles then introduced to the legal market at that time? Did government sell them to civilians? Or did they just "reappear" from basements, attics and holes in the wall?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: 9.3x57]
      #382472 - 12/02/24 03:48 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Well, thanks. There ya go! But, it did not have the bolt shroud of the Model 94's and 96's.




The 91 has a similar BS as the 94's etc. It does not have the long claw extractor. You can just make out the small extractor in this pic:



Did the bolt handle lock down behind or thru/in front of the rear receiver ring, ie, was the rear receiver ring split? If so I wonder if it was a rebarreled Portuguese Mauser-Vergueiro (which is actually a blended Mannlicher/Mauser)?




Now that, I don't remember, the extractor nor the bolt position. At the time, I do recall thinking I would not shoot it, myself.
Seems to me, it also had a barrel shorter than 20".

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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9.3x57
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: DarylS]
      #382474 - 12/02/24 03:59 AM

Quote:

Now that, I don't remember, the extractor nor the bolt position. At the time, I do recall thinking I would not shoot it, myself.
Seems to me, it also had a barrel shorter than 20".




This guy?

trying to get the pic to load. Uhg.



https://greatnorthgunco.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/IMG_8312-2048x1045.jpg

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9.3x57 (12/02/24 04:01 AM)


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lancaster
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: 9.3x57]
      #382475 - 12/02/24 05:06 AM

Quote:

This is a tidbit of info I find interesting in relation to your posts.

https://www.verfassungen.de/de45-49/kr-befehl2.htm

Controls were lifted it appears in the West in 1950. Were military surplus rifles then introduced to the legal market at that time? Did government sell them to civilians? Or did they just "reappear" from basements, attics and holes in the wall?




Personally I would give a fxxx in such a situation on such order and you can imagine that enough stuff was hidden somewhere. Under the russians it was extrem critical because you would go to siberia for sure.
Coming back to the carcanos its an austrian phenomenum. Lots of carcanos ending in the alps when war endet and they had enough time to hide them in barns and similar buildings before allied occupation troops arive. Shotguns for hunting were maybe allow there around 1950 and after 1955 they were able to do what they want.
What they were realy wanting was the Mannlicher Schönauer M 1903 in 6,5x54 because this was THE rifle for the mountain hunter. If you can't get it or don't had the money to buy after 1955 because it was an expensive thing you maybe had this caracano carbine in the barn from 1945 sometimes out for poaching when the coast is clear.
After the post war years your local gunmaker was happy to open up his shop again and labour was cheap so he make you something similar light and handy like the little Schönauer Stutzen.
When times became better you bought a new rifle and the old carcano stands than in the old
wardrobe.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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9.3x57
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: lancaster]
      #382477 - 12/02/24 05:16 AM

I'd suspect the availability of M/C's was higher than some others also as it was designated the standard rifle of the Volkssturm, tho obviously no such true standardization occurred. Regardless, I'd think there might very well be a relatively high number of M/C's in the hands of civilians as a result.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: 9.3x57]
      #382483 - 12/02/24 12:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Now that, I don't remember, the extractor nor the bolt position. At the time, I do recall thinking I would not shoot it, myself.
Seems to me, it also had a barrel shorter than 20".




This guy?

trying to get the pic to load. Uhg.



https://greatnorthgunco.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/IMG_8312-2048x1045.jpg




Dang- you know, that might be it, but the forend had been shortened.
I recall the front sight was a huge V, pointed up, of course.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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9.3x57
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: DarylS]
      #382484 - 12/02/24 01:04 PM

Quote:

Dang- you know, that might be it, but the forend had been shortened.
I recall the front sight was a huge V, pointed up, of course.






top cut down and minus the extra hardware?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: 9.3x57]
      #382506 - 13/02/24 05:06 AM

Bottom 98 looks nice. Is that front receiver ring dovetailed lengthwise?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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lancaster
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: DarylS]
      #382822 - 24/02/24 09:08 PM

here not a carbine but the M 91/41 rifle https://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/8946029/#





--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: lancaster]
      #382884 - 27/02/24 05:10 AM

and here again a carbine build into a hunting rifle https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19329805













--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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93x64mm
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: lancaster]
      #382891 - 27/02/24 07:13 AM

The scope would be offset on these Lancaster to aid loading the en-block clip?
Or can it be loaded from underneath, still falling out when empty?


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9.3x57
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Re: a very nice look alike MS Carcano [Re: 93x64mm]
      #382893 - 27/02/24 07:41 AM

lancaster:

I'm not sure if this has been asked before but are you aware of any magazine conversions of these rifles to function without the clips?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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