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casper50
.400 member

Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska

My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things.
#376194 - 22/04/23 11:02 AM

First off I think it's a nice rifle. What proofmarks are on it puzzle me. "Foreign made", also stamped top of barrel just in front of the receiver inside a rectangle is "not English made", No caliber proofmarks at all. I will need to check the chamber as the front mount obscures the model number. The proofs in the photos are the only ones on it except below the woodline is the date/proof number. 1927.

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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1813
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: casper50]
#376200 - 22/04/23 11:46 AM

1939 Stoeger:

British Proofs:

"Not English Make" or equivalent was required on 'foreign made' arms sold in Britain at the time.

Oesterr. Waffenfabr. Ges-Steyr was stamped on commercial (sporting) MS receivers manufactured through some time in 1926.

The original chambering should be stamped 'below the wood':

'C6.5' on example above indicates chambering of 6.5mm (M1903). It is the 411th arm 'nitro proofed' at Vienna in 1908. Steyr serial number is 4143 which will be repeated on barrel (if original), stock, underside of bolt handle.

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casper50
.400 member

Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: Rothhammer1]
#376201 - 22/04/23 12:02 PM

As I said above there are no caliber markings below the woodline. The date code is 1927.
[

Edited by casper50 (22/04/23 12:03 PM)

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1813
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: casper50]
#376202 - 22/04/23 12:20 PM

Quote:

As I said above there are no caliber markings below the woodline. The date code is 1927.

It is stamped C6.7.

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casper50
.400 member

Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: Rothhammer1]
#376203 - 22/04/23 12:38 PM

that isn't a stamp I've ever seen. Why 6.7 when it should be 6.5?

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1813
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: Rothhammer1]
#376205 - 22/04/23 12:45 PM

Again, from 1939 Stoeger:

Note caption: (Mannlicher-Schoenauer 6.5X53 and 6.7X53 are one and the same cartridge.)

The same is also true of 6.5X54 and 6.5X53 as some references of the time measured length to bootom of case head, others from recess above. Some listed width by land, others by groove; some 'rounded up', some 'rounded down'.

Brits liked to call it .256 in their listings, just as 9.5X57 was '.375 Nitro Express Rimless'.

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casper50
.400 member

Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: Rothhammer1]
#376206 - 22/04/23 12:52 PM

learned something today. That's why I asked the questions. Thank you.

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1813
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: casper50]
#376208 - 22/04/23 12:54 PM

Quote:

that isn't a stamp I've ever seen. Why 6.7 when it should be 6.5?

Incidentally, the '+05' on barrel and '-05' on receiver are marks of chamber depth to ensure proper headspacing when assembled at Steyr.

Images of other C6'7 marked M1903s, proofed within a few years of yours, may be found on the 'net.

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1813
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: casper50]
#376210 - 22/04/23 01:03 PM

Quote:

learned something today. That's why I asked the questions. Thank you.

You're quite welcome.
That's a large part of what makes these forums so valuable.

Kuduae may / may not know if there was a particular time frame for 'C6'7' marked M1903s and / or if the 'FOREIGN MAKE' stamp is common. I have seen several images of MS with 'NOT ENGLISH MAKE' in the same zigzag boundary from about the same time period. My M1910 Take Down Model bears Austrian proofs dated 1922, also period Brit proofs, does not have the 'Not English Make' stamp.

From a thread on 'Rimfire Central':

The 'Not English Make' marking was part of the British Proof marking system during the period 1925 to 1954.
It was required on firearms obviously 'Not of English Manufacture" but also not showing any proof markings from it's country of origin that the Brits recognized as compatible with the British Proof Standards of the period.

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NitroX
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Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: Rothhammer1]
#376211 - 22/04/23 01:06 PM

Irrespectively nice looking rifle.

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John aka NitroX

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1813
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: NitroX]
#376212 - 22/04/23 01:10 PM

Quote:

Irrespectively nice looking rifle.

Indeed.

Casper's MS collection is becoming rather impressive, it seems.

This M1903 Take Down Model is a dandy addition.

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1813
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: Rothhammer1]
#376213 - 22/04/23 01:28 PM

I've just noticed your special folding peep sight , a 'cost option' listed below the 'Take Down Model' catalog image above.

My 1922 proofed M1910 TD also has the feature as well as removable (horn) grip cap with storage for spare sight bead.

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casper50
.400 member

Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: Rothhammer1]
#376214 - 22/04/23 01:37 PM

One of my MSs have the grip well. Don't remember which one at the moment. Has a spare front sight in it as well

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1813
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: casper50]
#376215 - 22/04/23 02:43 PM

Quote:

One of my MSs have the grip well. Don't remember which one at the moment. Has a spare front sight in it as well

Which models do you now own?

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casper50
.400 member

Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: Rothhammer1]
#376218 - 22/04/23 03:09 PM

1900, 2x03,05,08,10,25 and 1956 in .458

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1813
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: casper50]
#376219 - 22/04/23 03:14 PM

Quote:

1900, 2x03,05,08,10,25 and 1956 in .458

I see a 'Sequoia' (M1924 - .30-'06) in your future:

Cased Sequoia TD belonging to member Paradox.

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casper50
.400 member

Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: casper50]
#376221 - 22/04/23 03:21 PM

The 05 has the grip well with extra front sight.

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casper50
.400 member

Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: casper50]
#376222 - 22/04/23 03:22 PM

My 25 is an 06, but I might keep might eye out for one.

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1813
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: casper50]
#376223 - 22/04/23 03:27 PM

Quote:

The 05 has the grip well with extra front sight.

Good stuff.

My M1910 also has its original spare bead as well as fitted case.

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1775
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: Rothhammer1]
#376231 - 23/04/23 03:20 AM

Quote:

that isn't a stamp I've ever seen. Why 6.7 when it should be 6.5?

Before WW1 the Austrian proofhouses marked the smaller bore/land diameter on the barrels, as did the German proofhouses until 1939. In the 1920s the Austrians changed their marking habit to the groove/bullet diameter.
Most of the European “6.5 mm” cartridges were named for their bore diameter, F.i. the 6.5x54 M-Sch, 6.5x55 SE, 6.5x57(R), 6.5x68. The British called them “.256” too. But they all have 6.7 mm groove barrels and use .264” = 6.7 mm bullets. Exceptions: The 6.5x52R aka .25-35 Winchester uses 6.5 mm = .257” bullets, while some obsolete cartridges like the 6.5x54 K Mauser or the 6.5x58R Sauer & Sohn used 6.64 mm = .261” bullets. You may sometimes find old Czech 6.5x54 M-Sch ammo headstamped “6,7x54”for their true bullet diameter.
That grip cap well holding a spare frontsight was a pre-WW2 Steyr factory option of their “English model”, the take down rifles. The parts, K1 – K10, after a 1929 factory flier parts list:

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casper50
.400 member

Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: kuduae]
#376234 - 23/04/23 03:27 AM

The eyepiece of the flip up peep sight moves too freeley. I'll have to disassemble it to check it. out.

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1813
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: casper50]
#376239 - 23/04/23 04:48 PM

Quote:

The eyepiece of the flip up peep sight moves too freeley. I'll have to disassemble it to check it. out.

It should go down slightly to close, pop it back into the groove upon opening. It should click into place somewhat securely. Perhaps yours needs a slight bend to restore tension?

Westley Richards used a similar / same sight. From 1912 catalog:

Mauser also used a similar sight:

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casper50
.400 member

Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: Rothhammer1]
#376251 - 24/04/23 02:10 AM

it pops up strong and closes well. When in the upright position the movable eyepiece doesn't have enough tension. I'll take it apart and take a look see.

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1813
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: casper50]
#376261 - 24/04/23 10:29 AM

Quote:

it pops up strong and closes well. When in the upright position the movable eyepiece doesn't have enough tension. I'll take it apart and take a look see.

Perhaps a slight, very careful, bend to G10 from the image provided above by Kuduae would restore tension? It would be a shame to break it, though.

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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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casper50
.400 member

Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska

Re: My latest MS 1903 arrived today. Some puzzling things. [Re: Rothhammer1]
#376263 - 24/04/23 11:20 AM

My thoughts exactly

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