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...This whole question stems from a 1903 takedown project rifle I picked up that does not have any name on the barrel or otherwise. ... I am also just curious about a more in-depth understanding of British M-S’s in general. Thanks for any insight.

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From information that I have gathered over time and images viewed, I believe the majority of M1903, M1905, M1908, and M1910 Steyr built Take Down Models were sold 'through the British trade', many of them with fitted travel cases, yet without a retailer's name engraved on them.

The Steyr factory built takedown system was very similar to that used by Westley Richards, as on this WR Mauser in 1912 advert:





Many authors and sellers have long referred to them as the 'British Take Down Mannlicher' with some insisting that they were 'converted' in England. To confuse matters there were, indeed, conversions done in the land of Big Ben; often of the interrupted screw type (break open) and which often do have a retailer's mark.

The Steyr built MS Take Down Model worked thusly, as described in the 1939 Stoeger catalog:



My own M1910 Take Down Model, proofed 1922, bears no retailer's mark. It does have the British added proofs and stampings typical of MS takedowns of the period such as bullet weight, diameter, and maximum Cordite load. It has a fitted case that has long since lost its inner lid label and was purchased 'second hand' by my grandfather in the British colony of Ceylon in 1930 or 31.

An image swiped from the 'net, detail of an M1905 Take Down Model:



Steyr built MS Take Down Model in 'Army and Navy' (retailer) labeled case:



It seems the market for take down models was primarily to steamship travelers and 'Great White Hunters' or those who fancied themselves so.


M1910 Take Down Model afield.

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Thank you for the input and information Gentleman.

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Here's a bit more... .

Stoeger, 1927 - Take Down option was + $20, $5 more than in 1939.
Note the 'High Velocity' ('M1925') were not yet offered:



Sights, from 1936 Steyr katalog:



1939:



More British proofs:



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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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I’ll take some pictures of the sights on my project when I get home

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Here are MauserKid's images:









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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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I don’t see any Austrian proofing!

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Nothing like these?:



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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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OMG, not Grandad...again ( emoji shaking his head)

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Rothhammer

Im not wanting to start a war here.
I may well be alone here. However Im getting just a little tired of your same regurgitated pictures...in particular that of your purported grandfather and his Leopard.
It is no doubt a wonderful photo, in fact I have intentions of asking you if I might use it in an article Im writing.

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Rothhammer, well put.

Your own 1910, are we going to pictures of your Grandfathers 1910...yes or no

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My own M1910 was formerly his - they are one and the same.

I actually haven't taken any photos of the rifle, myself. I suppose someday I will, but I know what it looks like.

For posting, photographs of my / his cased M1910 Take Down Model would look nearly identical to those of many others as it is rather typical.

It bears Austrian proofs dated 1922 as well as the usual British proofs / load info found on 'factory' MS TD's. It has the 'special folding peep sight' option as well as removable grip cap, neither of which are unusual alone nor in combination with one another. The case lacks its inner label. The claw mounted Gerard B it wears is also not unique.

Again, I suppose someday I'll photograph it or have it done, but to me it looks far more interesting held afield by dear ol' (purported) Grand Dad.

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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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This is the first takedown I’ve had so I’m not super familiar with comparing factory work against a converted takedown. You can tell the rear screw hole was filled in and filed flush if you look closely, not sure if this is how the factory did this or not. I got this from a friend of mine who’s on the board of the MCA, I’ll compare it against his 1910 takedown next time I’m over.

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Geez......a bit grumpy aren't we.........guessing need a bigger sandbox.
Not had your morning coffee yet?
- Mike

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Rothhammer

Im not wanting to start a war here.
I may well be alone here. However Im getting just a little tired of your same regurgitated pictures...in particular that of your purported grandfather and his Leopard.
It is no doubt a wonderful photo, in fact I have intentions of asking you if I might use it in an article Im writing.

I understand new members may not have seen it, however how about just referring them to one of your muliple links containing the photo, if you want them to view it.

Indeed I do have a number of Mannlichers with British provenance, and members are most welcome to enjoy them via the achvive system that John has created and maintains so well
Lastley those examples are in my personal collection and owned by me. I rarely post for the sake of posting, and when I do its hopefully interesting and original material.
Anyone can lift pictures off the internet and you have done a great job in bringing to our attention the phleroa of information contained in the Stoeger catalogue...thank you.

Speaking of original material. I note from other forums that you are in pocessions of this rifle.
So, when might we expect to see actual pictures of the rifle?

Take care of yourself

Eric

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I typed something else, then decided I didn't want to start a war, and get in between. Ha ha, there is a saying about there sorts of "... but ..." comments.

Firstly I see the thread opener has thanked the poster for his inputs. That says it all.

I have no problems in seeing Rothammer's Granddad's photos and the other images whenever relevant. He no doubt is proud of his GD's hunting career. I would be, mine shot foxes and rabbits! Not leopards and similar.

Eric, just scroll on past of stuff that bores you.

But please DO post some of that material you allude to. Material, images and good information make the forums better and more interesting. Yes anything on the net anywhere WILL get copied and pasted, tag it so at least the tag remains OR they have to edit the image to remove the tag. Bastards. Ha ha, I remember searching for Mannlicher images, finding some on a "african forum" which tags everything on their forum, and THEN finding out all of those images came from NE's own archives, pinched by someone to report over there ...

So it goes.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Bastards. Ha ha, I remember searching for Mannlicher images, finding some on a "african forum" which tags everything on their forum, and THEN finding out all of those images came from NE's own archives, pinched by someone to report over there ...

So it goes.

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We shan't mention whom... :



That particular 'site does do that, which sticks in my craw a bit, as well.

I pilfer images from the 'net on a regular basis to inform myself and for use to illustrate posts. As John said, once posted they're 'out there'. I don't agree with watermarking another's images, however, particularly without consent. They never asked me (I suppose it could be somewhere in 'fine print' of their policies - haven't checked).

For any whose images I have used who take umbrage, I do apologize. It would be more conscientious of me to caption each with attribution of source.

That said, I do not post for profit, merely to inform and to freely exchange information. These boards would get boring pretty durned quick if they only contained our own images limited to our own firearms and information that we already know.

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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Thanks Brian

I have a fullwood 1910 proofed around that time, whats your serial number, they might be close

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For me Mannlicher threads are now just full of Brians "white picture noise"...

You say " where relevant". Very often the picture in question is not relevant to the thread, as in fact is most of the other material.

...

While considering that why dont you create some threads showing us your own Mannlichers, including Grandads?? That would save you a lot of time trolling the internet for pictures and information that is already out there, as well as showing us something new and different.
If Grandads rifle were mine I couldnt wait to show everyone.
Nothing gets my attention more than a member who has something new with a " look what Ive got " post.
So, what do you say Brian, hope on smart phone and take pics for us.

Best
Eric

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You have a rather unique manner of asking for favors.

I don't care for childish cat fights, but here goes;

To this point I have answered you with civility (and a dash of sarcasm), even after your asinine "purported grandfather" remark.

In response to you now, however, I'd like for you to show me a single word that I had posted to this thread (prior to your bitch session) that was not directly relevant to the original post.

Was it the single image of a Sherlock Holmes type 'detecting' that set you on a hissy fit?

Where did I write anything about the MS being "boring"?

Get off of your high horse. I do not have quality images of my MS' details and do not care to take fuzzy snapshots of it. I do not own a 'smart phone' to "hope on [sic]", some of my telephones have dials (I "hope" you have a competent editor for your purported magazine articles). I also do not work for you.

As to what gets your attention - whatever blows wind up your skirt.


Actually, having just had the MS in hand and examining under magnification (with aging eyes), I have noticed a couple of interesting things about it.

Somehow I don't feel inclined to share them with you just now.

Just for you:



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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Okay I took it apart for a closer look and pictures, ...there is a tiny circle V on the bottom of the barrel shank. In this context, I wonder if that is used as a provisional proof of sorts before being sold into the trade?

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Apologies Brian for my poor Grammar. I of course did mean hop and not "hope". ( Damm auto spell) Im sorry this has upset you so.

Smart Phones: Actually smart phones, even the older models take excellent pictures, all of my postings are with a phone. Also I never suggested you take fuzzy shots. I do now understand better why you don't post original photos as you dont have the equipment.

Irrelevant : Perfect example is above , something you've discovered on the internet??, which has no meaning or relevancy. What is that anyway?

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"For posting, photographs of my / his cased M1910 Take Down Model would look nearly identical to those of many others as it is rather typical".
Brian By implication you imply we would not find the rifle interesting. ( boring may have been a little over the top, I apologise). However you now say it has some newly discovered interesting features, pray do share with us when you feel inclined.
I would very much like to see the scope and mounting system, which by the way isn't shown in Grandads photo. He must have taken them off that day.

Sherlock Holmes: Is that who it was?, another picture not relevant. ( Thats at least two in this thread alone)
Editing: Nope , do my own with all original material.

Work for me: ?? Nor Sir , thats unlikely.

PS. Are we able to compare serial numbers ( at least) for our Model 1910?

Best
Eric

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Brian, think you had better take a pill and have a lie down old mate.
My apologies, no I didnt see the number, but thank you.
I think we will leave it there before you burst something.

All the best

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Brian, think you had better take a pill and have a lie down old mate.
My apologies, no I didnt see the number, but thank you.
I think we will leave it there before you burst something.

All the best

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Back at ya, you sanctimonious twit.

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He shoots....he SCORES!!!!!



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"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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There were two kinds of Mannlicher – Schoenauer takedowns once available in the UK. First, the detachable stock type as offered as a factory option by the Steyr factory and described by Rothhammer and others...

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LRF,
.... Here you can see the full threaded barrel and the backed out front guard screw. His screw goes into a shallow hole or dimple in the barrel threads when the rifle is assembled. IMHO the weakest spot of Gibbs’ system as the screw cannot clamp the action to the stock wood and the barrel in the receiver ring at the same time. With a bit of wear or wood shrinking or swelling one of it’s functions will become loose, as it did on mine....

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Yes they did make a 1924 take down, please see upcoming thread for "British Sequoia Mannlicher" ...
Yes they did make a 1925 takedown, please see link to my previous post below. Im personally not aware of any examples later than 1925...


The earliest takedown example Im aware of ( not dated) is this one of my Model 1900 . This example is most likely a lead into the 1903.Please link to my previous post below.

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Interestingly the Gibbs example in one of those threads has the same trigger guard numbering I saw on my friend’s action, I’ll have to go back and look at it.

I still need to find a photo host when I have a moment as I took some pictures.

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