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bouldersmith
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Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 608
Loc: Boulder Colorado
Jeffery Mannlicher 1903
      #344758 - 03/09/20 06:42 AM

.256 Gibbs Magnum















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New website http://www.bertramandco.com


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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3518
Loc: Colorado
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: bouldersmith]
      #344761 - 03/09/20 10:46 AM

Beautiful rifle Steve!
Nice that the front sight cover is intact too.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
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Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: Huvius]
      #344763 - 03/09/20 11:05 AM

For sure I'm jealous.

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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1804
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: casper50]
      #344764 - 03/09/20 11:43 AM

I really like the clean little bolt mounted Jeffery peep sight.

Notice that it's built on a military action - evidenced by 'Steyr 1909' on the side rail:



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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2363
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #344855 - 07/09/20 08:40 PM

That is a really nice rifle in great condition with very nice sights. In particular I like the original Jeffery peep sight which are very rare indeed.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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lancaster
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Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #344897 - 09/09/20 05:14 AM

congratulation

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Louis
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Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 977
Loc: France
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: lancaster]
      #344924 - 09/09/20 09:10 PM

Superb rifle, congratulations on your purchase and thank you for sharing these photos.
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1404
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: Louis]
      #345690 - 10/10/20 09:57 AM

I managed to convince Steve (bouldersmith) to part with this beauty, as of today it lives with me.
26" barrel, 7lbs 5oz, and 14 3/8" length of pull.

Action is a Greek 1903 (Steyr 1909) production, 6.5mm London proofs as pre 1925, and an Austrian "T in a circle" indicating special grade steel supposedly used on or after circa 1920.
Bolt release is a button.... thus 1924 or before.
So according to the "T in a circle" on action and barrel, London proofs, and bolt release it most likely was made between 1920 and 1924.

However:
Barrel is roll stamped "Sighted & Shot by W.J. Jeffery & Co. Ltd. 13 King St. St James London SW and serial number".
The 13 King Street address is said to have been closed in 1914

Roll stamped on the barrel with an old stamp? Or?
So.....the date mystery will have to wait for an answer from the business that holds the Jeffery daybooks.

1st thing was clean the bore and go over the details. Bore is unworn bright & shiny from end to end.
The Jeffery peep sight is in perfect working condition along with the rest of the mechanicals.

My major discovery is that this 1903 is not a .256 Gibbs Magnum at all......it is a nice unaltered standard 6.5x54MS.

100 PPU brass and 2 boxes of Privi Partizan ammo are now on order. I have plenty of 160 grain Hornady roundnose to share with my Wm. Evans 6.5x53R.

More to come when I get it shooting.

- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1804
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Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: 3DogMike]
      #345699 - 10/10/20 05:26 PM

Quote:


Action is a Steyr 1909 production, 6.5mm London proofs as pre 1925...
...Barrel is roll stamped "Sighted & Shot by W.J. Jeffery & Co. Ltd. 13 King St. St James London SW and serial number".
The 13 King Street address is said to have been closed in 1914...

So.....the date mystery will have to wait for an answer from the business that holds the Jeffery daybooks.

My major discovery is that this 1903 is not a .256 Gibbs Magnum at all......it is a nice unaltered standard 6.5x54MS.






The 'Steyr 1909' stamp on your left rail indicates a receiver made in 1909 for a Y1903 'Greek Contract' military Mannlicher Schoenauer which would, of course, originally have been 6.5X54 MS.

Other examples:







Commercial MS such as M1900, M1903... had the manufacturer's name in the same location rather than a date.



Remember that for Steyr the Mannlicher Schoenauer was designed to be, first and foremost, a military weapon. The MS sporting rifles and stutzen that we all know and love are descended from a variant of the military type M1900 that were originally shopped to various procurers of ordnance.

For those who'd like a very detailed history of the development of and production changes of the Y1903 and its variants, view this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRUxiORNEpE&t=2031s

For the directly relevant bits, the Y1903 is shown at 24:03 and the side rail date explained at 24:42 minutes through the video.

Your 1909 dated receiver fits nicely with a barrel signed by a British gunmaker prior to World War One.

Here's a 'packet loading' Jeffery Mannlicher:



--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1404
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #345705 - 11/10/20 02:19 AM

Rothhammer, thanks for this.

I've now had the barreled action out of the wood, there are no Austrian proof marks (not unexpected) and the only marks under the barrel are a circled "B", a stamped "D3", and a lightly struck number "5".

- Mike







--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1804
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Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: 3DogMike]
      #345728 - 11/10/20 06:22 PM


Your London Proofs


From 1939 Stoeger catalog
Notice typo; "P.N. with Sword Arm above..." should read 'NP...'


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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1404
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #345737 - 12/10/20 12:55 AM

The 1977 Gun Digest has a very in depth and well researched article on British proof.
I just might scan it and forward to Nitro John for inclusion here.....I don't have the know how to properly post a .pdf attachment.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1804
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: 3DogMike]
      #345744 - 12/10/20 10:43 AM


I don't remember where I got this, but it's useful and concise:



--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1804
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Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: 3DogMike]
      #345748 - 12/10/20 09:11 PM

Quote:


I just might scan it and forward to Nitro John for inclusion here.....I don't have the know how to properly post a .pdf attachment.
- Mike




I often scan items as JPG to 'photos' or 'downloads' on my computer and use them in posts to NE with this method: Post Photos to NE

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2363
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #345756 - 13/10/20 09:20 AM

Thanks for that chart Brian, very helpful.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1404
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #345761 - 13/10/20 12:41 PM





I often scan items as JPG to 'photos' or 'downloads' on my computer and use them in posts to NE with this method: Post Photos to NE



I did scan the article, problem (to me) is that it is 12 pages which posted as photo/.jpg is huge “column inches” of scrolling. A total Charlie Fox transferring to IMGUR for photos.
Maybe need to figure out how to compress a 31 megabyte .pdf on my Mac to realistically send to Nitro John.

It’s hell to be only semi literate on computer things.

- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1804
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: 3DogMike]
      #345767 - 13/10/20 04:32 PM

Quote:


I did scan the article, problem (to me) is that it is 12 pages which posted as photo/.jpg is huge “column inches” of scrolling. A total Charlie Fox transferring to IMGUR for photos.
Maybe need to figure out how to compress a 31 megabyte .pdf on my Mac to realistically send to Nitro John.

It’s hell to be only semi literate on computer things.

- Mike




I'm certainly not a computer 'whiz', maybe I've just been lucky.
When I've posted scanned articles such as this one; http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post319808 , I simply scanned each page to .jpg (just as I would a photo) and sent to NE using picr.de.

Perhaps use the 'save as' command?

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1404
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #346230 - 27/10/20 11:43 AM

Have a reply from "The Friedken Group"; holder of the W.J. Jeffery daybooks.
A copy of the record for my Jeffery .256 Mannlicher #21102 (6.5x54) rifle, unfortunately there are no dates noted. I have an email in to see if ledger pages either side might have at least year dates.
What caught my eye was the "Le Personne" did the major part of the work and that of the 8 rifles in the block "Leonard" seems to have been the one to do the "detachable barrel" conversion.
- Mike




--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1404
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #346231 - 27/10/20 11:45 AM

Quote:

Quote:


I did scan the article, problem (to me) is that it is 12 pages which posted as photo/.jpg is huge “column inches” of scrolling. A total Charlie Fox transferring to IMGUR for photos.
Maybe need to figure out how to compress a 31 megabyte .pdf on my Mac to realistically send to Nitro John.

It’s hell to be only semi literate on computer things.

- Mike




I'm certainly not a computer 'whiz', maybe I've just been lucky.
When I've posted scanned articles such as this one; http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post319808 , I simply scanned each page to .jpg (just as I would a photo) and sent to NE using picr.de.

Perhaps use the 'save as' command?




Sent .pdf files of the "Gun Proof in England" to Nitro John to let him figure out how to include them in the forums
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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AlanD
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Reged: 14/12/08
Posts: 55
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: 3DogMike]
      #346384 - 31/10/20 09:08 PM

Le Personne & Co was a London based importer and wholesaler of various commodities such as glass. Also imported firearms into the U.K. For many years they had the FN agency for the U.K. They did not make any firearms.
The company was only liquidated in the 1990's. Unfortunately, no registers of firearm sales appear to have survived.

Regards

AlanD
Sydney


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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1404
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: AlanD]
      #346396 - 01/11/20 12:50 PM

Quote:

Le Personne & Co was a London based importer and wholesaler of various commodities such as glass. Also imported firearms into the U.K. For many years they had the FN agency for the U.K. They did not make any firearms.
The company was only liquidated in the 1990's. Unfortunately, no registers of firearm sales appear to have survived.
Regards
AlanD
Sydney



Hello Alan, thanks for adding your input.
Thus it leads me to believe that Le Personne likely imported batches of rifles from Steyr and sold them on to firms like Jeffery or Wm. Evans.
In this case it seems probable that Jeffery acquired the rifles or barreled actions from Le Personne, then had them altered to Jeffery standards by Leonard or Taylor.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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AlanD
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Reged: 14/12/08
Posts: 55
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: 3DogMike]
      #346608 - 07/11/20 08:02 PM

Yes Mike, I think that is what happened.
Cornell Publications have a Le Personne & Co catalogue that they have available, from the mid 1920's I think. It will give a good idea of what they sold. Mr Personne was of Belgium ancestry.

Regards

AlanD


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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1404
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: AlanD]
      #347459 - 02/12/20 11:30 AM

Finally got the Jeffery out to shoot over the Lab Radar unit.
No reloads yet, just fired the factory load Privi Partizan 6.5x54 156 grain (sort of) round nose for a velocity baseline. 32 degrees F, but ammo and rifle were "room temperature".
5 shots:
1) 2275
2) 2330
3) 2306
4) 2327
5) 2321

Factory advertised muzzle velocity is 2395'/sec. The Jeffery has a 26" barrel & shot #1 was out of a clean barrel.

As noted elsewhere, the PPU bullets are loaded a little shorter than standard spec and the soft nose tips are roundnose but a flat tip. This results in problematic feeding from the Mannlicher Schonauer magazine. I expect the Hornady 160 grain roundnose loaded to normal 3.06” length will feed fine, as they do in my Wm. Evans 1893 Steyr .256 Mannlicher (6.5x53R) loaded to 3.05”.

- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1804
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: 3DogMike]
      #347461 - 02/12/20 12:08 PM

Quote:



As noted elsewhere, the PPU bullets are loaded a little shorter than standard spec and the soft nose tips are roundnose but a flat tip. This results in problematic feeding from the Mannlicher Schonauer magazine. I expect the Hornady 160 grain roundnose loaded to normal length will feed fine, as they do in my Wm. Evans 1893 Steyr .256 Mannlicher.

- Mike




Build them exactly like this, or as close as you can, they should feed fine:



--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1404
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Jeffery Mannlicher 1903 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #347463 - 02/12/20 12:58 PM

Hey thanks for the post, I love seeing the old engineering drawings.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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