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AndrewS
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Reged: 01/10/12
Posts: 16
Loc: Suffolk, UK
Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS...
      #343052 - 06/07/20 12:47 AM

Hello

Sorry if this information has been posted before (I did try a search!). I'm trying to work up some loads for my M1910, using brass formed from various other calibres (mainly 30-06, but some others as well). I have a problem with neck tension - some rounds I can just push the bullet back into the case (this happens in some rounds with most makes of brass, including some once-fired original Kynoch brass). So...

Do I crimp the cases?

If so, what is the recommended "trim-to" length?

Bit off-topic but does anyone know of a source of the Hornady 270gr RN bullets? Or another make?

Many thanks.


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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
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Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: AndrewS]
      #343053 - 06/07/20 01:39 AM

Those Hornady 270gr RN bullets are not so common anymore.
In order to crimp, you will still need enough neck tension to hold the bullet in place while your cartridge is going into the die.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
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Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: AndrewS]
      #343055 - 06/07/20 01:45 AM

You need a tighter full length sizing die - or a smaller expander button. It this is happening on factory cases including Kynoch, your die is oversize or the expander button is, or - the bullets are undersize or a combination of these things. You will have to sort that out.
The bullets should be tighter in the '06 brass due to the new neck being on the '06 case's shoulder.
If the problem is the expander button, you can easily reduce it's size by fitting the decapping rod into the jaws of an electric drill, held in a bench vice- poor man's lathe.
Use sand paper, backed by a file for reducing it's size. Having dial or electronic calipers would be a good method of measuring, or using a micrometer to check progress.
The expander button should be about .373 at max.

Woodleigh for 270RN & 235gr. I would imagine
Hornady 270RN's are out of production. they still make 270SP's
Speer makes 235gr. and 270 SPBT's.
Norma is pretty much the 300gr. Alaskan.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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AndrewS
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Reged: 01/10/12
Posts: 16
Loc: Suffolk, UK
Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: DarylS]
      #343062 - 06/07/20 04:46 AM

Thanks for the replies, both. Time to get the measuring tool out I think. Depending, I have a large stock of once-fired .30-06 brass, I might make some fresh 9.5.

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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
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Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: AndrewS]
      #343067 - 06/07/20 06:24 AM

Some more info here:
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....rt=all&vc=1

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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MikeRowe
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: Huvius]
      #343069 - 06/07/20 10:09 AM

Reeds in Oklahoma City are making .375 270 grain RN's.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: MikeRowe]
      #343071 - 06/07/20 10:21 AM

That's good to know, Mike. Too bad they will never make it to Canada. Tried to find them on their site, but failed in jacketed bullets.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1804
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: AndrewS]
      #343085 - 06/07/20 07:07 PM

Quote:



...I have a problem with neck tension - some rounds I can just push the bullet back into the case (this happens in some rounds with most makes of brass, including some once-fired original Kynoch brass). So...

Do I crimp the cases?

If so, what is the recommended "trim-to" length?

Bit off-topic but does anyone know of a source of the Hornady 270gr RN bullets? Or another make?

Many thanks.




Daryl's theory regarding your loose bullet to case fit sounds logical to me.

What dies are you using?

A .375 will slide through the neck of my fired 9.5X57 handloads, as will projectiles from original DWM531, but either fits tightly when loaded with my RCBS dies which leave a slight taper crimp and set the cannelure of Hornady 3715 at the case mouth when seated to proper depth in a properly trimmed case.


A lousy scan of; 1) Reeds Ammunition 9.5X57, 2) my handload (unfired) from .35 Whelen through RCBS dies with Hornady 3715, 3) original (1924 dated) DWM 531, 4) my (ex Whelen) handload, once fired

Quality Cartridge makes new, properly headstamped, 9.5X57 cases which can be found at a decent price:

Grafs

MidwayUSA



Hornady 3715, unfortunately, are an endangered species. The .375 270 RN hasn't been offered by Hornady for several years, yet there are commercially available .375 Ruger that sure look like they are stuffed with them.

I laid in a supply of 'factory second' .375 RN from Midway a couple of years back for a very good price. As stated in the customer reviews, there doesn't seem to be anything 'second' about them and they appear to be Hornady 3715. The last time I saw them offered the price was significantly higher than I had paid: Midway seconds

Woodleighs in .375 270 RN, when they can be found, generally run about that price. Expensive Mannlicher food, but properly sized.

The Reed's 9.5X57 is properly made of Norma brass that has been drawn straight, then formed and filled with Hornady 3715 which he advised me had some of about two years ago.

* edit - I've just looked at Reeds 'site and he now offers the 9.5X57 in 235 grain soft point and 270 grain spire point in addition to the 270 RN. As you likely know, your Schoenauer magazine wants the 270 RN and depends on it for proper alignment while feeding. Reed's



When forming your own cartridges, make them to the precise dimensions of the Eley drawing below and they will function flawlessly in your MS (provided your MS is to specs).




--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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AndrewS
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Reged: 01/10/12
Posts: 16
Loc: Suffolk, UK
Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #343090 - 06/07/20 11:49 PM

Again, thanks for all the replies. Couple of things...

In the context of case forming, what does "drawn straight" mean?

I'd agree about bullets that are not round-nose don't feed well in the MS - loaded singly or in twos they're OK, but 3+ will jam.


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: AndrewS]
      #343095 - 07/07/20 02:09 AM

Drawn straight(sided), is the way all ctg. cases are made commercially. They are then necked and shaped appropriately with dies.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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85lc
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Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 888
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: DarylS]
      #343098 - 07/07/20 02:46 AM

What is everybody's favorite 9.5x56 MS load?
It is hard to find good reloading data for the 9.5x56.

--------------------
RB


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MikeRowe
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: 85lc]
      #343106 - 07/07/20 07:58 AM

Here ya go:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/869115385

Luckily, I still have a stash of Hornadys - got an old Steyr 375 rimmed to feed......


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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1804
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Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: AndrewS]
      #343111 - 07/07/20 12:19 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the replies, both. Time to get the measuring tool out I think. Depending, I have a large stock of once-fired .30-06 brass, I might make some fresh 9.5.




Sounds like a plan.

Here's a half ton of reference material (click link): AfricaHunting


Ol' Grand Dad (center) with M1910 Takedown Model





--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1804
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: AndrewS]
      #343113 - 07/07/20 06:27 PM

Quote:

Again, thanks for all the replies. Couple of things...

In the context of case forming, what does "drawn straight" mean?

I'd agree about bullets that are not round-nose don't feed well in the MS - loaded singly or in twos they're OK, but 3+ will jam.




Here is an old post from 2016 where Daryl explains 'necking' the cases straight prior to sizing: AndrewS

View the posts referenced below for info. regarding cartridge profile issues.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1804
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: 85lc]
      #343114 - 07/07/20 06:29 PM

Quote:

What is everybody's favorite 9.5x56 MS load?
It is hard to find good reloading data for the 9.5x56.




Click links below for a few prior NE threads that apply.
Read through for responses with reloading advice for the 9.5X57 / .375 Nitro Express Rimless and pay particular attention to those from Kuduae:

Kuduae Overkill

Loads

M1910 TD

Crackers

Newbie

Lead Loads

Reloading

9.5X57 Questions

9.5 X 57

Strippers

Unleaded


Deleted


And for general interest, specifications, ballistics, here are Mannlicher Schoenauer relevant images from the 1939 Stoeger catalog: MS 1939 Stoeger

TAGS: "9.5x57 MS", "9.5x57 Mannlicher-Schoenauer", ".375 Nitro Express", ".375 NE"

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

Edited by NitroX (08/07/20 01:51 PM)


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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3954
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #343115 - 07/07/20 09:39 PM

Great idea Rothhammer - getting all the info for the 9.5x56MS or 9.5x57 all in one tidy bundle!
A labour of love & justly so; a fantastic old cartridge with a grand old history.
Quite a lot of reading to enjoy.
Well done mate!
Cheers
93x64mm


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85lc
.375 member


Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 888
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: 93x64mm]
      #343120 - 08/07/20 12:36 AM

Guys,
This is great info.
Thanks for posting.

--------------------
RB


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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1804
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: 93x64mm]
      #343121 - 08/07/20 01:29 AM

Quote:

Great idea Rothhammer - getting all the info for the 9.5x56MS or 9.5x57 all in one tidy bundle!





Thanks.

I may have missed a few.

I skimmed through the archives seeking out relevant 9.5X57 reload data and advice.
If anyone else has any, feel free to chime in.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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AndrewS
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Reged: 01/10/12
Posts: 16
Loc: Suffolk, UK
Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: AndrewS]
      #375241 - 17/03/23 10:58 PM

Hello

I know I started this thread a while ago, but a new (to me) question... Does anyone have any load data for Vhitavouri powders (these are fairly readily available at local gun stores)?

Thanks in advance

Andrew


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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1804
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: AndrewS]
      #375244 - 17/03/23 11:52 PM

Quote:

Hello

I know I started this thread a while ago, but a new (to me) question... Does anyone have any load data for Vhitavouri powders (these are fairly readily available at local gun stores)?

Thanks in advance

Andrew




http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=301232&an=0&page=10#Post301232


kuduae
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Reged: 01/13/10
Posts: 1669
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: 9.5 x57MS loads [Re: Rothhammer1]
#301556 - 06/09/17 07:51 AM
Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote Quick Reply Quick Reply

My own 9.5x57 M-S aka .375 rimless NE 270 gr load: case formed from W-W .30-06, 270 gr Hornady round nose (still have some boxes stocked), 55 gr VV N140 (100 % capacity) for 707 m/s = 2300 fps iv from my 50 cm = 20" barrel.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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fjrdoc
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Reged: 20/05/22
Posts: 171
Loc: United States
Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #375259 - 18/03/23 08:51 AM

I'm going to be working on load development for my 1910 MS. I ordered a bullet mold from MP which came in the mail the other day. This mold is for 270 grain flat nose but also has pins for a deep hollow point and a cup point. I'll need to cycle the mold a couple more times but I did get some decent bullets from my first session. Made from 50% pure lead and 50% wheel weights. I'll attach gas checks and tumble lube.
I've been looking at Gordons Reloading Tool (https://grtools.de/doku.php) to figure out some load development. This is a free tool which looks very useful. I'm still in the learning phase.
If any members have interest in trying some of these bullets in their own rifle, drop me a line and I can send some your way. It would be interesting to see what the performance of the hollow points will be. Unfortunately, my range doesn't allow shooting at anything other than paper targets and I don't have access to unsupervised shooting area.


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: fjrdoc]
      #375260 - 18/03/23 09:21 AM

That alloy worked very well (amazing, actually) for me with BP loads in my .50 Alaskan.
With a GC, it should be OK in the 9.5 up to 1,600fps or so.
The not-so-old automatic GO-to load nowadays is a full case to the bottom of a seated bullet using Trail Boss.
Another go-to load is Ed Harris' 13gr. Red Dot shotgun powder. No filler.
That's an old recipe for most ALL calibres .30 and over, .ie: .308, .303, .30/06 and larger.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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fjrdoc
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Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: DarylS]
      #375265 - 18/03/23 12:02 PM

Thanks for the info Daryl.

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DonZ
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Reged: 24/12/12
Posts: 118
Loc: BW
Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: fjrdoc]
      #375269 - 18/03/23 05:56 PM

I had planned on working on some load development for this, but I have been stymied by some tech problems with QuickLoad. I'm working with the QL development guys to get this going, but in the mean time, if anyone has a working system, I could use a little help crunching numbers.

Also slowing things is the availability of product, and some what I consider unreasonable local laws on storage quantities for powders. But I digress.

What I have in hand is:

100 Woodleigh 270 grain bullets.

1 kg of VV N160 powder. I should have checked here first and used Kuduea's N140 formula, but I fell for the VV marketing for the slower burning powder. Too late to change now.

CCI Primers

About 60 once fired brass, properly head stamped, retained from a purchase from Dorfner. Apparently, he is not offering this round anymore.

CH4D Dies. I'm a little concerned that I'm not quite getting a good grip on the bullet, even after using the roll crimp die, but that could be an mis-adjustment of the dies. Need to play there. I did make one dummy round for use as a snap cap, and feeding the round from the magazine tends to seat the round deeper. Need to fix that. May require a note to CH4D.

I also have 10 old Kynoch rounds, but I'm not sure if they are older and have corrosive primers, or if I should just fire them. What I may do is pull the projectile, dump the powder, remove the primer, and start over. But that's for later.

If anyone has any advice, I am all ears. Yes, I can play with the dies to get the dimensions in the Eley drawing... it's the powder load where I need to play.

--------------------
Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age...


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Reloading the 9.5x 57 MS... [Re: DonZ]
      #375294 - 19/03/23 05:41 AM

You could easily use maximum loads published for the 9.3x57 Model 96 loads (57,000psi max) as your intermediate loads.
The 9.5's case capacity is roughly 8 to 10% larger.
In other words, start at 48gr. H4895 with a 270gr. and go from there to where you are comfortable.
You could even start with my 300gr. load of 45gr. H4895 & use a 270gr. bullet. With that, in my model 96, I got 2,170fps with the 300gr. sized down .375 Hornady RN and almost NO expansion of the web (not the base) from FL sized brass.
My mic indicated I had 1 ten-thousandth to 2 ten thousandth expansion at the web over FL sized brass. .0001" to .0002". Not 1 or 2 thou - 1 to 2 ten thousandth.


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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