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Are you certain we're referring to the same firm?

Some of their products are presently available in the U.S. from Graf & Sons.

I made enquiry with Aussie Copper Projectiles via their website on Monday, 02 October, and received a prompt reply from their Company Director, Mark Savage.

Unfortunately, Mr. Savage did not have any direct experience using his products with the Mannlicher Schoenauer nor any feedback to share from MS shooters who have.

Has anyone here used them in an M1910?

Has anyone here used any currently available .375 (9.5mm) non lead projectile that performs well and cycles flawlessly through the Schoenauer magazine?

BR.

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The ACP .375 270 grain Thunder looks like it would work in a Mannlicher.

Waidmannsheil.

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The ACP .375 270 grain Thunder looks like it would work in a Mannlicher.

Waidmannsheil.

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Where can they be found?

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It appears he has started up again. All I will say is buyer beware.

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I simply use Barnes .375", 235gr TSX FB bullets, #30486 or 37662,

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Your input is always welcome and valued, sir, as I have read of your experience with and use of the M1910.

I have 400 or so 270 grain rnsp (as Hornady 3715) for sighting in and 'paper punching', but live in an area where any lead projectiles are now banned for hunting. Mere possession of ammunition with a trace of lead that will chamber in a firearm one is carrying or has access to while hunting here is now verboten.

Hence my quest is for a non - lead projectile of the same profile (or very close to it) as DWM 531, preferably 270 grain.




Now that I've looked at my reloading components, I see that I have a box (50) of Barnes .375, 270 gr TSX FB (#30489). Those 235 grain TSX FB (#30486) cycle through your magazine? I hadn't thought of running them out to 3.05"... I'll have to try it!

Anything even approximating a 'spire', or any significant taper, that I have tried in the past jammed in mine. The old Hornady 3715 works flawlessly.

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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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I have 400 or so 270 grain rnsp (as Hornady 3715) for sighting in and 'paper punching', but live in an area where any lead projectiles are now banned for hunting. Mere possession of ammunition with a trace of lead that will chamber in a firearm one is carrying or has access to while hunting here is now verboten. Hence my quest is for a non - lead projectile of the same profile (or very close to it) as DWM 531, preferably 270 grain.

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That's too bad, Roth - the 270gr. Hornady was an excellent bullet, only overshadowed on elk by the 270g.Win. PP.

I note the measurements are almost identical to what a .375x57mm Ack.IMP would be.

In a Mauser action like a Mk. 10, that round would make about 2,300fps+ change with a 300gr. & 2,500fps with a 270 and quite easily I expect.

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From the 1939 Stoeger

More:


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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Thank you gentleman.
I have 1910 on the way, a 24inch barrel with full wood stock. I have a good supply of Hornady 270gr, and can use lead bullets. I appreciate the Barnes information as an option.

Thank you
Eric

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Quality Cartridge (Qual-Cart) has new made, 9.5X57 headstamped brass. Midway sells it, as does Graf & Sons.


If you form your own, you may wish to avoid 8X57 or the other 'X57' cases (unless you're going to draw them out straight first) as they'll have a lower, narrower shoulder. A regular FL die set will not quite reach the shoulder and you may end up with excessive headspace.

I have used .35 Whelen through RCBS dies in the past with excellent results. They require a good trim, of course, but otherwise a 'piece of cake'.

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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Have you, by chance, any experience using IMR4895 with the barnes copper projectiles? I had been running 42 grains of it behind the Hornady 3715. It's been some time since I reloaded, but I have recently laid in a supply of the IMR. Perhaps I can find a 'conversion' for (x)N140 = (x)IMR4895.

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These look interesting.

From Cutting Edge Bullets:


Link:
<a href="cuttingedgebullets.com/375-235gr-er-extended-range-raptor" target="_blank">web page</a>

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All this stuff about jurisdictions banning lead core bullets is a worry. Eventually the antis will cause it to spread everywhere or far more widely.

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No, sorry! The other way around, I sometimes used 4895 data with N140 when nothing was available. Afaik N140 is just a bit slower burning, so reduce my load by about 5%.

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Perfect.

Again, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.

That, the camaraderie, (and the pretty pictures) are what make these sites worthwhile!



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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Rothhammer

Did you by chance try sizing up Norma 9.3x57 brass"" ???...I happen to have a quantity.
Good to know Bertram makes with both headstamps..

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Actually, I have 2 boxes of loaded 9.5X57 coming to me from Reeds Ammunition and Research (Oklahoma, U.S.) that are made from 9.3X57. Should arrive tomorrow. He gets fresh Norma brass that, although headstamped 9.3X57, is straight walled when he receives it. He then forms to 9.5X57.

The only brass I have worked myself for the M1910 was .35 Whelen which formed easily with a single pass in RCBS dies (after cutting brass to approximate length, finish trim after sizing). With the .35 Whelen the shoulder is pushed down from its original location giving a good solid shoulder. Many people have used .30-'06, but it must be worked in steps, I'm told.

I've noticed ads for the Bertram. Pricey stuff. I was about to buy some when I saw the Qual-Cart and figured I'd give them a try. looks nice, haven't loaded it yet.


There are several posts on the 'net from people who say they simply fireform ( )X57 brass, then load for their 9.5X57. Others say this is a very bad idea, as the brass is likely weakened at critical points during the stretch.



Note the shoulder of 9.3X57 has a width of .433 and is 1.805 from the base (in inches).
The 9.5X57 (Eley drawing) shows a shoulder of .455 at 1.825 from the base. I have some original DWM 531 of 1926 manufacture that measures .453 at the shoulder.


The 8X57 Mauser is narrower still, but not as low.

I had once ordered some '9.5X57' from another loader that had been made with 8X57 and sent it back.

They had apparently not been 'drawn out', the shoulders had not been touched by the sizing die and were low and narrow.


9.5X57 Mannlicher Schoenauer - .375 Nitro Express Rimless 2.25"


Perhaps I should have worried about the shoulder width of .35 Whelen, but those have all been fired by now (leaving a nice fireformed shoulder) except for one I kept as an example. The shoulder of brass that has been fired in my M1910 measures .459+ on my dial caliper.

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Rothhammer



Note the shoulder of 9.3X57 has a width of .433 and is 1.805 from the base (in inches).
The 9.5X57 (Eley drawing) shows a shoulder of .455 at 1.825 from the base. I have some original DWM 531 of 1926 manufacture that measures .453 at the shoulder.


The 8X57 Mauser is narrower still, but not as low.

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The Speer 235 grain projectiles feed perfectly in the 1910

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they are no option to Rothammer's problem as they contain a lead core. This thread is about a leadfree bullet suitable for the 9.5x57 M-S.

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True, it was primarily an 'unleaded' thread, but I welcome all M1910 information and data from trusted sources. The information shared is appreciated, and as we know the Schoenauer magazine is particular as to what it's fed.

Does the Speer 235 need to be set out to maximum overall length as you had with the Barnes TSX? The loads I sent back to their maker with the low, narrow (8X57) shoulders had bullets of that or similar profile and they did not feed. The first round loaded would get 'jacked' as a third went in. Two in, then stuck.



On the subject of 'leaded' rounds, I just received two boxes of 9.5X57 from Reeds Ammunition Specialties (Oklahoma, U.S.). Looks great. They're made from new brass which he gets straight walled from Norma, then forms. It is headstamped Norma 9.3X57 and he stuffs with (now very hard to find) Hornady 270 gr. RNSP.



Left to Right; Reeds 9.5X57 - My (1990s) handload from unfired .35 Whelen (with Hornady 3715) - 1926 Coded DWM 531 - Fired .35 Whelen,

I loaded the M1910 with five of the Reeds cartridges, cycled flawlessly as had my old Whelen based handloads. Those Hornady 3715s are great for the leaded diet.

Click link below for Reeds;
Reeds Ammunition Specialties

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Does the Speer 235 need to be set out to maximum overall length as you had with the Barnes TS X? The loads I sent back to their maker with the low, narrow (8X57) shoulders had bullets of that or similar profile and they did not feed. The first round loaded would get 'jacked' as a third went in. Two in, then stuck.

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In the pre-1924 Mannlicher – Schoenauer models M1903, 05, 08 and 1910 magazines the cartridges are held to the cartridge carrier rotor by flanges machined in both receiver and magazine bottom. The rear one, about 5.5 mm = .22" wide guides the cartridge bases and is no problem. The front one, about 8 mm = .32" wide, holds the bullet noses.M 1924 and later models introduced a seperate guide ring instead of the machined bullet guides. My old photo shows M1910 magazine parts on the left with the bullet guide at the front end. On the right are the simplified parts of a post-WW2 6.5x68 "Magnum" magazine without such bullet guide, but with the neck guide ring.

Cartridges for all these old M03 -10 rifles must be loaded close to maximum oal, so the bullet noses may be held to the carrier spindle by the guide flange. If, f.i. you try to convert a M03 6.5x54 into a flat shooting varmint number by loading light, short, pointed bullets that are too short to be engaged by the guide flange, the front ends of the cartridges in the magazine will drop away from the carrier spindle and jam. This is your "third round problem"! To avoid such jamming all cartridges for the old M-S models have to be seated close to maximum magazine oal, disregarding any existing crimp grooves. In the 9x56 M05 the 200 gr .35 round noses, designed for the .35 Remington, are too short if seated to the crimping groove. This applies especially to bullets with slimmer noses than the old blunt round nose, like the TTX or the Speer 235 gr. Loaded cartridges for the M1910 should at least have a Diameter of about 7.5 =.30" at 70 mm = 2.75" from the base for proper function in the magazine. Other bullets with very slim, pointed noses will be hopeless, as they may be too slim 8 mm behind the point to be held properly to the spindle.

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There are several posts on the 'net from people who say they simply fireform ( )X57 brass, then load for their 9.5X57. Others say this is a very bad idea, as the brass is likely weakened at critical points during the stretch.

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Daryl;

You quoted me incompletely. The complete quote is above.

I was referring to the practice of merely fireforming raw 8X57, then loading it. As you acknowledged, this could cause stretching at the web.

Nowhere did I say that running an expander through the neck was a bad idea.

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." - that is simply not true, ie: bullshit."

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Thank you, however, for the information regarding modification of the .44 neck expander, as that may be valuable to others. When I formed fresh .35 Whelen I simply ran them through my RCBS FL set. Now that I am more aware of the difference in shoulder width between .35 Whelen and 9.5X57 I may employ that expander method if I form from .35 Whelen again.

As it is, I still have my previously formed (and since fired) cases and have more recently acquired a couple of boxes (bags) of Qual-Cart 9.5X57 headstamped brass and some handloads that others have formed from .30-'06 and 9.3X57.

I'm pretty well covered at this time, brass - wise.

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Sorry to interrupt the thread but am curious.


Steve

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I do this for my 9.3x57 and with .30/06 and .35 Whelen brass for my .375/06IMP. So simple it is absolutely ridiculous & fool hardy (a waste of money) to buy someone else's cases.

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Unless one desires to have some properly headstamped brass to go with their 9.5X57.


Otherwise, my reworked .35 Whelen are quite suitable.

Someday I may find myself willing to go through the nuisance of retrofitting original DWM 531 cases to boxer primers, then load with modern powder and original pulled DWM projectiles for the sake of authenticity. A few 'strippers' of five would make nice 'case candy', to say the least.



These are 'purrrrty', as well.



Presently, I'm satisfied with a box of Kynoch for the MS's fitted case.

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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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These look interesting.

From Cutting Edge Bullets:

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Yes and I think some, if not those particular ones you reverse and use them as solids. Never tried them but did read about them.

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I have thought of that myself and wondered... . If that projectile is turned around and loaded with the open end in, would setting off the charge behind it expand the 'skirt' in the barrel as would a Minie ball?

For pig killers, I'd think they'd perform well with the open end forward (no plastic tips installed). The shape looks like it may be great for the (pre M1924) Schoenauer magazine.

Problem for me is, they're brass. Where I live, even a trace of lead is verboten while hunting. They'd have to be certified (and accepted by the legal gods) as 'lead free'.

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These look interesting.

From Cutting Edge Bullets:

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Yes and I think some, if not those particular ones you reverse and use them as solids. Never tried them but did read about them.

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I have thought of that myself and wondered... . If that projectile is turned around and loaded with the open end in, would setting off the charge behind it expand the 'skirt' in the barrel as would a Minie ball?

For pig killers, I'd think they'd perform well with the open end forward (no plastic tips installed). The shape looks like it may be great for the (pre M1924) Schoenauer magazine.

Problem for me is, they're brass. Where I live, even a trace of lead is verboten while hunting. They'd have to be certified (and accepted by the legal gods) as 'lead free'.

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I just googled their website and yes indeed they come with the tips to help feeding for those that need it. Or you leave them off and they have the big open point or you reverse them to use them as solids. They are solid brass machined so no problem to use them reversed and no lead so you could try some if it would help your problem. They are expensive though! My mate has used them a bit and said they work as advertised but he/we mostly use Woodleighs in PP, RN and Hydro's if we want solids as the no lead shit hasn't infested where we hunt yet!

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A proper headstamp is not necessary and indeed, would likely reduce the amount of brass for any particular ctg. I load for.

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Most brass has some lead in it. The local hardware store had to throw away all of their existing stock of brass plumbing fittings that were not certified 'California AB1953' (lead free) a few years back.

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That is outright criminal greeny bullshit. The lead in brass does not contaminate. I feel for the State of Cal.

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Most brass has some lead in it. The local hardware store had to throw away all of their existing stock of brass plumbing fittings that were not certified 'California AB1953' (lead free) a few years back.

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That is outright criminal greeny bullshit. The lead in brass does not contaminate. I feel for the State of Cal.

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Agreed Greg, the world is being f#€£ed by this greenie PC bullshit

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For others, however, inaccurate headstamps could become an issue. I can't imagine confusing a 9.5X57 reformed from .30-'06 with a .30-'06 round, but I'm not so sure I'd want to use reformed brass that is headstamped for any ( )X57 that I also had a rifle for.

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For others, however, inaccurate headstamps could become an issue. I can't imagine confusing a 9.5X57 reformed from .30-'06 with a .30-'06 round, but I'm not so sure I'd want to use reformed brass that is headstamped for any ( )X57 that I also had a rifle for.

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Really, I didn't think that was possible? Well, in that case, you should always have the correct headstamp, for your safety and everyone's around you.

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There's no need to be a dickhead, Daryl.

Or is there?


You could try reading and comprehending an entire post, rather than taking one sentence out of context and attempting to make a smarmy, childish, comment about it.


How about we knock it off and get back to what was a helpful, informative thread?

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I do like this thread. I am supposed to have a 9.5x57 MS rifle on its way to me oneday, if it can be arranged. So if it ever arrives, these discussions are also very useful for me.

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And that, gentlemen, is why we're here... isn't it?

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I'd like to get after some of the wild boar that we have in abundance hereabouts, thus the quest for non lead.

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Photo taken about two or three miles from where I now sit:



A small one, that. The one that pig-tilled my neighbor's yard a few years back was much larger.
I saw it one night, grabbed the .44 and was very tempted, but was too close to other houses, etcetera.

They're non native, destructive, and I think they'd look a bit better after being introduced to a 9.5X57 dispensed from an M1910, as Kuduae has done here:

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For others, however, inaccurate headstamps could become an issue. I can't imagine confusing a 9.5X57 reformed from .30-'06 with a .30-'06 round, but I'm not so sure I'd want to use reformed brass that is headstamped for any ( )X57 that I also had a rifle for.

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Pardon my ignorance but other than for show what would the problem be with any X57 brass? The 9.5 won't chamber in the smaller cals and the smaller cals may or my not fire in the 9.5, if the do fire they just rattle down the bore and you then have fire formed 9.5 brass.

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what would the problem be with any X57 brass? The 9.5 won't chamber in the smaller cals and the smaller cals may or my not fire in the 9.5, if the do fire they just rattle down the bore and you then have fire formed 9.5 brass.

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They're non native, destructive, and I think they'd look a bit better after being introduced to a 9.5X57 dispensed from an M1910, as Kuduae has done here:

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Here in Germany these wild boar are natives, not introduced nor feral pigs. Some more. Granted, all smallish ones.



End result of one of our hunts:

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Back At-cha, Roth.

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