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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive

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mehulkamdar
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Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.

Lee Speed Sporter
#53468 - 28/03/06 03:00 PM

Courtesy MacNaughton

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

Edited by CptCurl (03/12/08 11:15 PM)

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303
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: mehulkamdar]
#53479 - 28/03/06 04:57 PM

id love to own one of those but i have never seen one up for sale

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: 303]
#53608 - 30/03/06 02:01 AM

303,

This particular one is on sale in the UK. Contact MacNaughton if you're interested. He has a few others as well.

Cheers!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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303
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: mehulkamdar]
#53773 - 01/04/06 09:33 AM

thanks for that i will do

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500Nitro
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Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: 303]
#53775 - 01/04/06 11:04 AM

Lee Speeds are common in most countries.

Try the auctions in the US.

500 Nitro

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303
.300 member

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: 500Nitro]
#53798 - 01/04/06 10:32 PM

i have never been up close and personal with one and i havent seen one besides books do you guys have ant idea as to the price of one in good condition

Edited by 303 (01/04/06 10:36 PM)

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500Nitro
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: 303]
#53804 - 02/04/06 02:19 AM

I would say US $1200 - US $3000

I THINK this may be one but can't see the photo closely enough

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976704137.htm

Some have goo bores, some bad deending on how much they
were shot with old 303 Cases and how well they were cleaned.

Most of the ones I have seen used are very accurate.

500 Nitro

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DarylS
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: mehulkamdar]
#53806 - 02/04/06 02:48 AM

I have a friend who still uses his for spring bear hunting in his back yard. He uses 2,000fps loads with .308 220gr. Hornady RN's. His LeeSpeed has an excellent bore that actually measures .311 groove dia. and shoots the .308" bullets very well. His other .303's run them to about 2,300fps.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: 500Nitro]
#53995 - 03/04/06 05:24 PM

500 Nitro,

They are not very common in the USA and that is probably because owners don't want to part with them. Greg Martin Auctions sold some very nice ones last year for approximately $ 650 to 700 though you would have to add a 12% premium to that price. The Gunsamerica one seems to have been butchered somewhat - a side scope mount sometime?

Yes they are very fine rifles and they were made in several calibres other than the fine old 303 for those interested in collecting them, including the 405 Winchester and some of the Continental rimmed calibres. The new Australian International Arms Lee Enfields which were sold here briefly by Tristar were made only in the 308 Winchester and the 7.62x39. I wish they would make them in the 303 and other chamberings in a sporting format instead of their No 4 and No 5 designs.

Cheers!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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303
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: mehulkamdar]
#54005 - 03/04/06 09:00 PM

are they mostly ten shot mags with them or fives

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500Nitro
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Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: 303]
#54008 - 03/04/06 09:33 PM

303

To be honest with you I can't remember - I have only owned
1 (a WR) and that was a while ago.

500 Nitro

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303
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: 500Nitro]
#54054 - 04/04/06 07:20 AM

it don't worry me i was just wondering

what calibers are they most common in i assume it is 303 and dose any one know when they stoped making them

Edited by 303 (04/04/06 07:43 PM)

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: 303]
#54151 - 05/04/06 01:54 PM

303,

They were available with 5 or 10 round mags and were chambered in a number of rimmed calibres including the 375 flanged and the 405 Winchester. Of course, a vast majority were 303s, and a good idea at that. I love the round and I can see that you do as well from your login name.

Cheers!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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303
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: mehulkamdar]
#54184 - 05/04/06 06:18 PM

i do indeed love the old 303 it can take on just about everything in this country it would be fun to own one in 405 win i reckon

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Taylor416
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Loc: Central West, New South Wales....

Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: 303]
#56474 - 05/05/06 10:46 PM

A Lee Speed that I owned about 20 yrs ago was very nicely engraved and had a five shot mag that ran pretty well flush with the timber. It was in .303 and I shot a couple of hand fulls of water buffalo with it quite successfully. But then the .303 is more than capable!!

cheers

--------------------
Love to hunt!

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Carpetsahib
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: mehulkamdar]
#79087 - 21/05/07 10:06 AM

Quote:

Courtesy MacNaughton

Here is my version using a SMLE No. 1 MkIII. I recontoured the receiver and shortened the magazine. The stock pattern is from an old Westley Richards .318 Mauser that I once owned. The wood is curly maple from WNC. It is suigi finished and acid stained. The sight is a two leaf express.

Edited by CptCurl (03/12/08 11:18 PM)

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Carpetsahib]
#79179 - 22/05/07 04:45 PM

Carpetsahib,

That is very nice work indeed! Far better to build one's own rifle than to pay someone to make it.

Hat's off to you for your talent and your taste.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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Marrakai
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: mehulkamdar]
#79186 - 22/05/07 08:21 PM

Carpetsahib:
A technical question about your beautifully reworked SMLE if I may: Did the action squeeze together or open up slightly at the rear when you cut the clip-loading bridge off? I was always cautioned not to remove the bridge in my younger days of zealous 'hack-saw gunsmithing', for fear of the action closing slightly and binding the bolt. Any evidence of this in your case?

Very nice job, BTW. Congratulations. I get a lot of pleasure from seeing the old three-oh getting the attention and respect it so richly deserves!

Nice Lee Speed from MacNaughton too. Marvellous stuff!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Carpetsahib
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Marrakai]
#79192 - 22/05/07 10:37 PM

Quote:

Carpetsahib:
A technical question about your beautifully reworked SMLE if I may: Did the action squeeze together or open up slightly at the rear when you cut the clip-loading bridge off? I was always cautioned not to remove the bridge in my younger days of zealous 'hack-saw gunsmithing', for fear of the action closing slightly and binding the bolt. Any evidence of this in your case?

Very nice job, BTW. Congratulations. I get a lot of pleasure from seeing the old three-oh getting the attention and respect it so richly deserves!

Nice Lee Speed from MacNaughton too. Marvellous stuff!

Thanks for those kind words. I really like the Lees and think they are underappreciated. I reworked a No.4 MkI Long Branch along the same lines as the No.1. Neither rifle had any bolt binding issues. A slicked up Lee is a marvelous instrument. And I love the old Westley Richards pattern. I use it for everything, from Mausers to Trapdoor Springfields.

The only problem I have with these rifles is that the Point of Impact varies with the weather. I think the solution may be to bind the forend to the barrel out near the tip with a barrel band or something of that sort. The next one I build will have either a barrel band or cross pin.

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Carpetsahib
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Carpetsahib]
#79713 - 01/06/07 06:29 AM

Here are a Marlin M336, No.4 MkI* and a Mauser M98 on the Westley Richards pattern.

Edited by CptCurl (03/12/08 11:19 PM)

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7mmSAKO
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: mehulkamdar]
#79984 - 05/06/07 06:15 PM

Holland & Holland offered in their 1910 catalog, Lee-Enfield Sporting Rifles in two calibers .303 and .315 (8 m/m).
What caliber was the .315 (8 m/m)?

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buckbrush
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: 7mmSAKO]
#92457 - 23/12/07 07:53 AM

8-56 M.S.

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Old_rifle_nut
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: buckbrush]
#95069 - 24/01/08 09:58 AM

Sorry, but I am afraid you are wrong. It was the 8 x 50R Mannlicher cartridge, same as in the original Mannlicher Model 1895 rifle / carbine.

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Old_rifle_nut
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#95071 - 24/01/08 10:14 AM

Also forgot to mention, H & H only offered 2 of the 4 calibers available from BSA, who made essentially all of the Lee Speed / Enfield / Metford sporters. The others were 7x57R Mauser & .375 2 1/2" Flanged Nitro Express. There were a number of British "Gunmakers", a lot of whom were actually only retailers of Birmingham's manufactories' products, who offered these rifles for sale. As near as I have been able to determine through resarch, owning and / or "fondling" / shooting them, here is a list. I would, however, appreciate hearing from others who may have some to add to the list.

ARMY & NAVY Co-operative Society Ltd.
Henry Atkin
Frederick Beesley (inventor of the Purdey sidelock)
Bentley & Playfair
BIRMINGHAM SMALL ARMS Co. Ltd.
BSA & M. Co.
John Blanch & Son London
Thomas Bland & Sons
C. G. Bonehill
Charles Boswell
CHURCHILL (GUNMAKERS) Ltd.
Cogswell & Harrison Ltd.
COOMBES COMPANY Ltd.
W.W. Greener Ltd.
HOLLAND & HOLLAND, Limited
I. Hollis
Hollis, Bentley & Playfair
Holloway & Co.
Holloway & Naughton Ltd
W.J. JEFFERY & Co.
Charles Lancaster
Alexander Martin
Charles Osborne & Co. Ltd.
WILLIAM POWELL & SON
J. Rigby
J. Robertson (General Manager of Boss)
Victoria Small Arms Co.
WESTLEY RICHARDS & CO. LTD.
James Woodward
William Moore & Grey

I have owned about a dozen of the rifles by these makers & seen examples by most of the other makers. The H & H rifle I have seen was marked SHOT & REGULATED BY HOLLAND & HOLLAND 98 NEW BOND STREET LONDON

If there is any interest, I could upload some of the photos to share with the members.

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#95276 - 27/01/08 03:59 PM

Old_rifle_nut,

Of course we would love to see the pictures of your treasures. Please do post them whenever you find time.

Thanks in advance and good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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jc5
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Posts: 162
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Manton, India Restrictions, BSA sole manufacturer? [Re: mehulkamdar]
#95336 - 28/01/08 06:37 PM

Old_rifle_nut,

Yes, please post pictures. I've been trying to research all I can about the Lee Speeds, and I've found the threads regarding them here at the Nitro Express forums to be very useful. There's another thread where I posted some catalog pics over at http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=23226

Another company that offered Lee Speeds was Manton & Co.. They advertised the BSA Lee Speed on p.70 of their 1926-7 Price List, calling it a "BSA Lee Enfield Sporting Rifle." This catalog has been reprinted by Cornell Publications. The catalog is for their Calcutta office and all prices are in rupees. It is interesting that they only offer it in the .315 caliber, because by 1926 the .303 had long since been banned in India (for info on this ban, see "British Single Shot Rifles, Vol. 3" by Wal Winfer, pp. 242-244.) Also, the Manton catalog (p.3) has a section that is full of the odious "gun control" disclaimers and warnings that we have come to know in the present era: "licenses", exemptions, caliber restrictions, mailing restrictions, liability limitations. It's all so depressingly modern. I'm not sure if such restrictions had already been enacted in Britain by this time, but India was certainly in a heightened state of anxiety regarding independence movements and unrest, so it makes sense that the Gov't would seek to keep the people disarmed and reduce the chances of military ammo finding its way into the hands of undesirables. No 2nd Amendment in India!

Anyway, there was a Lee Speed Manton rifle for sale on Gunbroker awhile back and it was indeed stamped "Manton." I saved the info on it for research purposes, and it read as follows:
...
“BSA Co” stamped on the action strap on the right side. “375 EX” and “CORDITE 40-
270 MAX” stamped on the right side of the barrel just forward of the barrel step. “MANTON & CO.
GUN MAKERS LONDON & CALCUTTA” prominently and sharply engraved on top of the barrel rib.
...
I wonder just want each retailer had to pay BSA for each rifle they sold with their own stamp? And should we assume that BSA was indeed the sole manufacturer of ALL Lee Speeds, because they alone had the machinery to turn out these rifles? That would make sense, but I would love to see this confirmed with some evidence. Most Lee Speeds that I have seen do not exhibit any variations beyond what BSA offered in their 1911 catalog--barrel length, safety, rib, stock, magazine, caliber, etc. This seems to support the notion that BSA was the sole manufacturer, because no else offered any substantial variations that were not offered by BSA themselves. I would love to see evidence to the contrary (beyond the retailer's stamp, of course). However, I am just starting to build up a collection of old catalogs, so there are many sources still to be examined... in that other thread I mentioned above, there is a commercial LSA rifle, and it is stamped LSA and not BSA. The Manton gun is stamped BSA. Perhaps certain resellers simply offered them as BSAs, like Manton did--while others wanted only their own name to be present. (Maybe they paid a higher license fee to BSA for this privilege? I'm guessing here). I cannot imagine that W.W. Greener, for example, would ever sell a firearm that was marked "BSA" anywhere on it.

Here's one last item that may perhaps be an exception. In their 1912 Centennial Catalog, Westley Richards offered "Sporting Lee-Metford Rifles," which featured engraving that looks unlike anything BSA offered, with an Express sight that seems to have an extra leaf, and a buttstock that has a pronounced cheek rest. So I would guess that Westley Richards added these features themselves (at some expense, I'd guess), but it doesn't mean they produced the rifle in their own factory. However, get this: the rifle also has a "detachable barrel"! Now that is unusual. Would BSA have manufactured that, or would WR have made these in their own factory? I'd love to see one up close... Anyway, this catalog page came to my attention because it was reproduced on page 181 of "The British Falling Bock Breechloading Rife from 1865" 2nd. ed. by Jonathan Kirton. (Why a Lee rifle in a book about single-shots? Because the WR catalog page had a Farquharson-type rifle on it, and the Lee just happened to be on the same page!)

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Nakihunter
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Re: Manton, India Restrictions, BSA sole manufacturer? [Re: jc5]
#95338 - 28/01/08 07:27 PM

Interesting post. I had heard the 8X57J (318 cal) called the 315 many times in India. In fact I have hardly heard the 8X57 term in India.

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.

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FrankS
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: mehulkamdar]
#116993 - 15/10/08 04:37 PM

Carpetsahib, if you have the time, could you please post a top view of your reworked #4?. I'd very much like to see what the top of the receiver looks like. I'm currently doing something like yours. I've a #4MKI receiver, 375 barrel with 1x12 twist, and a box full of never fired IVI 303 brass. So any help you could give will be greatly appreciated. I can't hunt anymore but like to make my own cast bullets and like the 375/303 cartridge. Hopefully will be able to do my own barrel work as this is a first for me. Thanks,Frank

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Carpetsahib
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: FrankS]
#117191 - 19/10/08 12:31 AM

I'll be happy to post some photos, although it may take me a couple of days to do so.
Carpetsahib

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Carpetsahib
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Loc: Western NC

Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Carpetsahib]
#117193 - 19/10/08 02:07 AM

OK, here are photos:

Edited by CptCurl (03/12/08 11:23 PM)

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Carpetsahib
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Loc: Western NC

Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Carpetsahib]
#117205 - 19/10/08 05:52 AM

Here are some pics of a No.4 that I built sometime back. Notice the short forend which is only about 8" long (measured from the front guard screw). The stock is american walnut stained with nitric acid and finished with alkanet oil (of my own manufacture). The apeture sight is a Redfield (if I remember correctly). This made up into a fine stalking rifle in a fine caliber - .303. The safety lever was modified by adding a checkered button at the end. It was a really neat touch.

Edited by CptCurl (03/12/08 11:24 PM)

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FrankS
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Carpetsahib]
#117229 - 19/10/08 03:50 PM

Carpetsahib, many thanks for taking the time to post the photo's. Made things a lot more clearer. Was going to ask how you plugged the pin holes for the charger bridge, but doing it your way solved that problem. Again thanks. Frank

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FrankS
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: mehulkamdar]
#117286 - 20/10/08 03:47 PM

Carpetsahib, there was a picture in the 1964 edition of "wiliams Gun Sight Catalog" of a #4 that has a similar treatment regarding the removal of the charger bridge. Made the difference between night and day as to how the finished rifle came out. Spoke to a gunsmith about this and he said as long as you keep pressures at factory then one would have nothing to worry about.Frank

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Carpetsahib
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: FrankS]
#117316 - 21/10/08 03:34 AM

There is a plugged hole in the top of the left rail, but that will be almost invisible when finished.

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Carpetsahib
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: FrankS]
#117377 - 22/10/08 12:47 AM

Quote:

Carpetsahib, there was a picture in the 1964 edition of "wiliams Gun Sight Catalog" of a #4 that has a similar treatment regarding the removal of the charger bridge. Made the difference between night and day as to how the finished rifle came out. Spoke to a gunsmith about this and he said as long as you keep pressures at factory then one would have nothing to worry about.Frank

Yes, I have the Williams Publication you refer to - How To Convert Military Rifles. They do have a nice article on the SMLEs and No.4s.

You will note how I reduced the height of the left hand rail to approximate the height of a No.1 action. I had in mind to radius the entire top of the No.4 action like unto a No.1, but the presence of the charger bridge hole eliminated that option. I'm sure that would be feasible if one were to weld the holes, but I didn't have that option (didn't want to spend the money).

Another thing that I like to do is to reduce the magazine capacity by 3 rounds or so. That is, I cut the bottom of the magazine off parallel to the factory line, such that the bottom line of the magazine is tangential to the radius of the trigger guard bow. When I first started working with No.1s and 4s, I cut the magazine off at the stock line; that just never seemed to look right. The shortened angled magazine seems to be sleeker and more appropriate.

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Story
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Posts: 262
Loc: SE PA, USA

Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Carpetsahib]
#117392 - 22/10/08 04:54 AM

Carpetsahib,
Nice work - where did you get the walnut blank for the completed No 4?

I've got a pre-98 Lee Metford that's already been bubba'd, that I'll turn into a faux Lee Speed after I get home. For you guys building your own, I picked up one of these from SARCO

MSR219 MK10 MSR 1 Fixed 2 Folding Leaf Express Sight (round bottom) 3/$138.95 $49.95

MSR221 MK10 MSR 3 Folding Leaf Express Sight (round bottom) 3/$138.95 $49.95
http://www.sarcoinc.com/mauser.html

For what it's worth, I also have a .303 BSA 'Cape Rifle' - this has a 30' barrel, same length as the Lee Metford service rifles. While mentioned in period catalogs, so far I've seen exactly two others like this (for sale in the UK at http://www.wdlr.org.uk/stensby/firearms.htm) with a barrel rib.

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Carpetsahib
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Loc: Western NC

Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Story]
#117394 - 22/10/08 05:43 AM

To tell the truth, I have been disappointed with all of the semi-inletted stocks that I have seen. I find I have better results if I just work from a squared blank for both the forend and the buttstock. That being said, this particular buttstock, if I remember correctly, was a Fajen. The forend was from a square blank.

Regarding the Folding Leaf Express Sights, do you have a picture? These would be of interest in my nest project and I am curious about the quality of construction and materials.

Thanks,
Carpetsahib

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FrankS
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Carpetsahib]
#117416 - 22/10/08 03:45 PM

Carpetsahib,your wood working slills are really great. I had posted another reply earlier this evening and don't see it here. Guess the gremlins got it. After doing some checking my action is actually a #5 jungle carbine action. Not a #4MKI as I had previously stated. But should be amply strong for the 375/303. You mentioned magazines. One gunbook showed a cutdown #4 magazine that left the bottom open. You the reader of this article would then make a flat floorplate out of 1/8" flatstock and that would be a sporter conversion. I'm planning on using a Santa Fe 5 round magazine for my project. Where I stand right now is the action body is basically in the white. Will be removing the clip charger guide
with the milling attachment that I bought for my sears 6" craftsman lathe. Then some file work to clean up the cuts and finish off to either 360 or 400 grit finish. I plan on using origional #4 MKI wood on this rifle. The bbl will be heavier than a standard #4 bbl. Not a bull barrel so's you folks can relax. Thought I'd get the dimensions off a L39A1 barrel and see how thick it would be at 24" long. or if someone knows of a nice L42A1 bbl floating around looking for a good home let me know. Bore should be in as best comdition as possible. Will have to wait until november so's I can get some money to pay for it or if one is having problems with the bore I can get it rebored to 375 caliber and get it chambered. Finish will be bead blasted then blued. And will see how one can get installed a set of redfield olympic rear sights and possibly a globe front sight. Since I don't hunt anymore, will spend my time trying out the various 375 cast bullet molds of which I have two so far. Jacketed bullets in 375 that I have are the sierra 220 for the winchester 94 in 375 win, and 3 boxes speer 235 grain for the 375 H&H magnum. Sorry to be so long winded. Frank

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Story
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#117427 - 22/10/08 07:04 PM

Quote:

It was the 8 x 50R Mannlicher cartridge, same as in the original Mannlicher Model 1895 rifle / carbine.

I saw a .315 Lee Speed (marked 8mm) go for a very reasonable price last year. Ithought about getting into a bidding war with the fellow who did get it, but I knew him to be 'into' 8X50R type rifles and figured I'd stick with my .303s.

In case anyone was looking for decent 215 projectiles, the US (NJ) firm Hawk Precision Bullets offers some at a reasonable price.

Edited by Story (23/10/08 05:07 PM)

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Carpetsahib
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: FrankS]
#117448 - 23/10/08 12:46 AM

Thanks for your compliments. I alter Enfield magazines by cutting the bottom off at the desired angle with a hacksaw, then cleaning up the cut with a platen grinder. After everything is rendered flat and square, I solder an 11ga plate onto the bottom of the magazine. My preferred method is to tin the bottom plate and the magazine separately, then place the bottom plate on blocks and place the magazine on top. Then I heat the whole assembly and allow the magazine to seat itself. After that, its a matter of sawing and grinding off the excess metal and cleaning up the solder fillets. If it is done correctly, the solder joint is very thin and non-obtrusive.

I'm glad you have a milling attachment for your lathe. I have to to my trimming with hacksaw, file and chisel! My method builds muscle and patience in about equal proportions

.

I like the idea of a .375 on the No.4 action. How about a cartridge based on the .444 Marlin case? That works well with everything from 7x57R, .308, .311, 8x57R. .338, 9x57R, 9.3x57R, the aforementioned .375 and even a .400. Another thing that I have considered is a .40-65 Win. That is interesting because I already have dies, cases, loaded ammo and even a barrel on hand.

Carpetsahib

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FrankS
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Carpetsahib]
#117469 - 23/10/08 06:00 AM

Carpetsahib, When you cut down a magazine how do you treat the magazine spring?. Cut it down? or some other way. I have an old sante fe 5 round magazine which will get refinished when the rest of the rifle gets done. Blueing is starting to fade as well as a few "uh o's". Funny thing about the milling attachement. Got the lathe when I got out of the navy in '64. Bought the attachment a few years later. Used it exactly once. Because of the rigidity of the set up you can only take small cuts. No blazing away like a bridgeport. And its limited as to how long a cut you can take. Did use it to take the ears off a 1917 enfield for a friend. Now that took awhile. Was thinking of getting some 1/4" flat stock and after cutting off the bottom of the magazine, file the flat stock to fill the opening and slight belly in it. I may not be much with a lathe, but am pretty decent with a file. Good old norwegian milling machine. That also builds muscle and patience although maybe not in equal proportions. A lot of file here, try it and file some more. The action body hat I'm using is not a #4 MKI as origionally thought. Its a #5 made by BSA in 1945. Marked M47C Has england stamped on the left side of the butt socket. Since it was given to me quite a few years ago, finally decided it was time to use it. Would prefer a martini henry .303 action but they are kinda scarce here in louisiana. Ah well one can only dream. Frank

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Carpetsahib
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: FrankS]
#117470 - 23/10/08 06:42 AM

My method only reduces the magazine capacity by 2 or 3 rounds. It may not be necessary to shorten the magazine spring at all; on the other hand, one can easily shorten it if there is a tendency for the shells to pop out the top. In any event, I should think that removing one bend would be sufficient.

Maybe we should have an association or society devoted to users of (Norwegian, German, Swiss) Milling Machines. A skilled practitioner can truly work wonders with a file, if one has the patience.

Using a 1/4" plate for a filler will work fine. I thought about doing that myself, but decided that it was too much work and that the other method suited me better.

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FrankS
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Carpetsahib]
#117492 - 23/10/08 02:11 PM

Carpetsahib, yes you could call it "The ancient order of filers". That would be not very far from the truth. But before I get carried away with removing charger bridge I'm going to use that new fangled invention the dremel moto-tool. This will take out the bulk of the material before the action body goes into the milling attachment. Spent the better part of two hours polishing just the feed ramp. Not much room to get a piece of 320 grit silicon carbide paper backed with a die maker's stone. Found out it was way easier to take various grades of silicon carbide paper wrapped around a pencil at the eraser end. Gives just enough pressure to remove scratches without having to worry about creating grooves where there shouldn't be. Call it an theraputic exercise. I think you have created a monster of sorts with your Lee Speed photos. There seems to be a lot of interest in them. They are beautiful rifles wether they were made generations ago or done by craftsman today. Good on you as the aussies say. Before I forget CRS don't you know. The left flat when taken down like yours is creates a perfect spot for attaching a scope. Since you don't have to contend with the charger bridge being there you can mount a scope much lower. Scopes!!!!!!!, I can hear the gnashing of teeth right now. But I have 62 year old eyes someday due for cataract replacement. Have a nice weaver steel tubed 4x that would look right at home. Frank

Edited by FrankS (23/10/08 02:20 PM)

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Story
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Carpetsahib]
#117499 - 23/10/08 05:10 PM

Quote:

Thanks for your compliments. I alter Enfield magazines by cutting the bottom off at the desired angle with a hacksaw, then cleaning up the cut with a platen grinder. After everything is rendered flat and square, I solder an 11ga plate onto the bottom of the magazine. My preferred method is to tin the bottom plate and the magazine separately, then place the bottom plate on blocks and place the magazine on top. Then I heat the whole assembly and allow the magazine to seat itself. After that, its a matter of sawing and grinding off the excess metal and cleaning up the solder fillets. If it is done correctly, the solder joint is very thin and non-obtrusive.

Carpetsahib,
Look closely at the magazine profile of the lower Lee Speed - there's a slight 'belly' to it.
http://www.wdlr.org.uk/stensby/images/303_rifles.jpg
I'll see if I can dig up the advertisement with the illustrations, showing side views of their five round magazines.

Quote:

I like the idea of a .375 on the No.4 action. How about a cartridge based on the .444 Marlin case? That works well with everything from 7x57R, .308, .311, 8x57R. .338, 9x57R, 9.3x57R, the aforementioned .375 and even a .400. Another thing that I have considered is a .40-65 Win. That is interesting because I already have dies, cases, loaded ammo and even a barrel on hand.

Doitdoitdoitdoit!!!!

One suggestion on using No 4 actions and bolts - if you want a more-classic profile, see if you can fit the earlier No 1 cocking piece to the No 4 bolt (I've seen these done by accident or necessity before).

Here's a Lee Speed with what appears to be an original 10 round magazine (as well as a barrel rib and hooded front sight)
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=112322209
and here's a .375 Lee Speed with the five or so capacity magazine
http://www.gunsamerica.com/976945556/Gun..._2_5_Flange.htm
Again, note that it seems to have a 'belly'

Edited by Story (23/10/08 06:22 PM)

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Story
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Story]
#117505 - 23/10/08 06:17 PM

For a real classic photo, check out this:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/31/97104495_f5623890e8.jpg?v=0

Visit to England for the Coronation of King Edward VII, 12 August 1902.
flickr.com/photos/ethioblogger/97104495/

Caption: Ras Mäkonnen's cloak and shirt probably made by Serouphi Ebeyan, dress-maker to the Ethiopian Court.

Weapons:

Curved Ethiopian sword in leather scabbard;

(Rifle) probably Lee Speed .303 bolt action rifle(known variously in Amharic as dimoftär, dimotfär, or dimetfor).

Edited by Story (23/10/08 06:28 PM)

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Carpetsahib
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: FrankS]
#117530 - 24/10/08 01:30 AM

Ah yes, telescopes! Marvelous instruments - or so I'm told....

Seriously, a low mounted scope would be quite nice on one of these rifles. A G&H, Jaeger, ECHO, Weaver or Pachmayr side mount would offer a low scope position and allow the easy transition to iron sights. I greatly favor Lyman Alaskans or even Weaver 3-30s for my rifles. Just look at the Mannlicher Schoenauer that I have pictured in my post in the Custom Mannlicher Schoenauer thread in this forum. It has an Alaskan scope mounted about as low as is possible.

Regarding Dremel Tools: these are quite useful but I find that their grinding wheels are soft and are not very durable. I think an actual die grinder - either electric or air operated - may be a better choice for this work since the grinding wheels seem to last longer. Probably the best set-up would be to use a tool post grinder mounted on a lathe. Precise contouring would then be quite easy.

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Carpetsahib
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Story]
#117531 - 24/10/08 01:35 AM

Thanks for the photos. I added them to my collection. I like your idea of using a No.1 cocking piece on the No.4 to give it a better appearance. I'll look into that possibility.

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FrankS
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Story]
#117560 - 24/10/08 09:25 AM

Story, one step ahead of you. Hopefully can locate the #1 style cocking piece for my project rifle. Gave a lot of thought about the 375/303 cartridge. But when I found a box of IVI canadian brass in my stash. And origionally thought that I only had a few hundred cases, after opening the box it was more like 500 or so. No brainer there. Frank

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FrankS
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Carpetsahib]
#117563 - 24/10/08 09:44 AM

Carpetsahib, beautiful mannlicher!!!. I have a greek one sitting in the safe and has the usual rusted, corroded and beyond hope bore. No amount of cleaning, chemicals, abrasives or other means short of destruction have had no effects. That was bought many years ago in the hopes that it could be resurrected into some former shadow of itself. Sadly the years have gone by and there she still sits.
I have to agree with you regarding the dremel stones. I normally use it for sharpening my mower blades. But occasionally it comes in handy for firearm related chores. Actually regarding removal of the charger bridge it would be way better to use a mill. With radius cutters would eliminate a lot of hand work and give a more finished appearance. Sort of like when one removes the ears off a P14 enfield and recontours the receiver. But still a lot of work. Did one once. All by hand. Frank

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Caprivi
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Story]
#119162 - 19/11/08 03:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:

It was the 8 x 50R Mannlicher cartridge, same as in the original Mannlicher Model 1895 rifle / carbine.

Years back, long before I had any idea what I was looking at, I remember a LEE sporter in, I believe Alfred Gallifent's basement shop, that had the barrel marked as a 500/320 NE. It stuck with for what ever reason. Sounded cool. Only recently thru a Farq/Henry/Fraser collecting friend did I find out that the 500/320 is the 8x50R.

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lancaster
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Caprivi]
#119292 - 21/11/08 10:03 PM

1926 manton, lee speed for the 8x50R mannlicher aka .315 india

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (03/12/08 11:20 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: lancaster]
#119298 - 22/11/08 12:28 AM

this one http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=2011001&PHPSESSID=86442d3912f9cad6ce053c05bcc01ccd
cost only 10,99 just now, will see what it will go next 3 weeks

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (03/12/08 11:21 PM)

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Sarg
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: lancaster]
#119329 - 22/11/08 03:29 PM

Why rework the later action ?
other than strength wouldn,t it be easier to find a Lee Speed - Lee Enfield - action & rework that !
or are these harder to find & or more expensive ?
I ask as I have just had a Lee Speed in my hands and liked it a lot & have now found a cheap Lee Enfield 1892 rifle ,also a Lee Speed action !

Thanks for the great tips and photos , but wish I hadn,t seen them now LOL

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FrankS
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Sarg]
#119422 - 24/11/08 02:56 PM

Sarg, will try and answer your question. In close to 40 years I've never seen in person a lee speed sporter. Having said that since coming here, a lot of good folks have been most generous in posting pictures of their lee speeds. For that I'm very grateful, and probably never have the bucks to actually get one. As far as reworking another enfield action, I'm currently doing some reworking on a jungle carbine receiver. Reason is that its been sitting neglected in the bottom of one of my storage cabinets for who knows how long. Was given to me many years ago. And being parsimonious (cheap) decided to use it. Have a barrel blank with 1x12 twist in .375 caliber. So by now you can guess where this is going. Have a bunch of .303 brass and will be a .303 british case necked up to .375 caliber. Still have a lot of work, like getting a finish reamer made, locating some nice #4 MK1 wood, and a lot of parts. Regards,Frank

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beleg2
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: FrankS]
#119455 - 25/11/08 06:36 AM

you are so cruel.
I tryed not to read this thread, but toaday I could not resist.
Some years ago (12-15) I did not buy a BSA .303 at $500.- for a NEF .270 Win. thinking I have more use for the later.
How can I be so stupid!!!!!!
MEA CULPA.

Beautifull rifles.
Martin

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FrankS
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: beleg2]
#120133 - 03/12/08 07:49 AM

beleg2, I have never seen a lee speed sporter. Even when I went to the Houston gun show in texas. And you'd think that in a show that size you'd see at least one, nope, nada,nyet and zip. That show usually advertises that they have 2000 tables. My feet still hurt whenever I think about how many times I criss crossed the asiles. I can't hunt anymore due to pain in my feet and legs. It will take some time to get all the bits and pieces I need. And being financially challenged doesn't help either.
So for now have both the receiver and bolt cleaned up. And have a line on a couple #1MKIII cocking pieces. Slowley but shurely plodding along. Regards Frank

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lancaster
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: FrankS]
#122026 - 23/12/08 10:58 PM

time for an updat: http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=2011001&PHPSESSID=86442d3912f9cad6ce053c05bcc01ccd

rifle was sold for 451 euro

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Caprivi
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: lancaster]
#122064 - 24/12/08 02:44 AM

Still a good price if the bore was useable. Would have no idea how to import it thou.

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jc5
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Caprivi]
#122065 - 24/12/08 03:33 AM

A bit overpriced for a hacked up military bubba, don't you think? The only thing on it that seems to have any connection with Lee Speed sporters is the barrel and express sights. Even the wood is military. The barrel has the triangle mark characteristic of Westley Richards' fixed barrels. But why would WR rebarrel a military surplus gun? And wouldn't they have fitted a nicer front sight? It could be this one was built up from parts of various rifles. Perhaps the owner simply wanted to replace the barrel on his homemade sporter and found one from a WR sporter. I cannot imagine that buying a barrel from WR would have been very economical (considering the low overall value of the gun), not when replacements from BSA and Parker Hale were available.

If the buyer wanted a knockabout shooter and they fancied that particular "pistol grip," more power to'em. I do hope he plugs those volley sight holes, so the gun can lose its gap-toothed smile!

Merry Christmas all,
Gap-toothed JC

...

P.S. Hey Lancaster, could you please confirm that your Manton catalogue is indeed from 1926? I have a reprint dated 1926-27 and the page on BSA sporters looks different than the one you shared above. Thanks!

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Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.

Edited by jc5 (24/12/08 03:35 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: jc5]
#122073 - 24/12/08 05:13 AM

no, sorry, its the 1825-1925 centenary catalog

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GaryD
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: lancaster]
#123053 - 05/01/09 02:54 PM

It was likely professionally sported (although the unplugged holes for the rear volley sights are questionable. Looks a lot like my 1897 MLE done up in Lee Speed STYLE. I wouldn't call a professionally sported job bubba'd, but certainly worth a lot less than an actual Lee Speed. All said I bought mine for $175.00 CDN. The bore is only marginal however and it did need the muzzle reshaped and to be re-crowned, but that cost me all of $30.

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Sarg
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: GaryD]
#123576 - 10/01/09 09:56 AM

Well I have just received most of my bits to make up a Lee Speed type sporter , I got keen on one after getting a nice Lee Speed sporter for one of our members here , it has a heavy barrel that is still shiney & shoots 308 size bullets into small groups (only have 308 size bullets right now)

Here are photos of start , I will post some later as more work is done !

Edited by CptCurl (15/11/10 11:17 PM)

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jc5
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Sarg]
#123612 - 10/01/09 02:33 PM

So far so good! Congrats!

How about sharing some details?

Where are the holes for the rear volley sight?
Is it a cavalry carbine action with the markings ground off? Or did the action come from an actual sporter?

Where in the world did you find a spare BSA express sight?

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Sarg
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: jc5]
#123613 - 10/01/09 03:35 PM

The volley sight holes had been filled when I got it , I had the choice of this or Lee Speed Carbine action (had 7 holes in the side of action for scope mounts) which most of the sporters were made on as no volley sight on them .
I was going to get it engrave to but don't trust that fill job to be the same colour when blued .
It can be done prefectly by making a rod out of a wrecked action of the same era .

We have lots of old Metford type rifles here in NZ , most are buggered from 100 years of dickheads messing with them & nearly all the barrels are ruined , I was lucky to get a late model heavy barrel ,like new & not drilled for rear sight.

Well yes the sight was the clincher in the deal of bits I did in trade (we poor people trade a lot)
from a chap who has stuff from God knows where !

Looks like it came from a Gunsmith who rebarreled a Lee Sporter and had the sight spare ?

Having said that I might make a quarter rib because of the big steep in the barrel knox .

This is a practise rifle till I find a minty action or cheap Lee Speed sporter with the tang safty !

Thanks for the interest .

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Huvius
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Sarg]
#124024 - 14/01/09 02:15 PM

Found a couple Lee Speeds online. Yes, I have caught the bug too!
The Alex Martin at 700GBP here is neat:
http://www.wdlr.org.uk/stensby/firearms.htm

Also, another which I am buying - more on this later...
Wondering, are there similar import restrictions on these that plague Mauser sporter collectors?

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Huvius]
#124031 - 14/01/09 03:55 PM

Well, I picked up another goodie for the collection. A Lee Speed by B.S.A.Co. converted at some point to C.L.L.E., although it is an original sporter. Better photos to come.

DRAT!!! Tried to upload some photos & no luck. HELP!!!

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Huvius
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#124033 - 14/01/09 03:59 PM

You can email the pics to me and I will post them for you.
PM sent
What is C.L.L.E. ?

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Old_rifle_nut
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Huvius]
#124034 - 14/01/09 04:08 PM

C.L.L.E. (Clip Loading Lee Enfield)

What is your email address?

Thx, Jim

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jc5
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#124038 - 14/01/09 05:01 PM

Charger Loading Lee Enfield. (Clip = charger)

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: jc5]
#124045 - 14/01/09 05:59 PM

Here are some of the details of my newest acquisition; a No. 2 pattern B.S.A. Co. manufactured Lee Enfield.

I believe it is a No. 2 pattern as it does not have a barrel rib or engraving (the hallmarks of a No. 1 Model), however, it does have the flat top, swept-back carbine type bolt handle, as well as a horn fore-end cap and horn pistol-grip cap and is well chequered.

The rifle is fitted with a 21 ½” round barrel. The top of the Knox form, which is of Enfield, and not Metford type, has the standard 3 stacked rifles BSA logo on it, while the left side of the barrel has the standard 1916 era Birmingham proof marks thereon. The top of the barrel, ahead of the rear sight, is inlaid with silver (platinum?) and inscribed: Proved & Sighted for the Mark VII .303 High Velocity Cartridge (As shown in “A Lee Speed Sporter, B.S.A. Co. turn-of-the-century quality” article in Arms & Militaria Collector No. 22)

The receiver, which is marked B.S.A. Co. on the right action strap, is fitted with a Lyman receiver sight of unknown model (PA July 11-1911) and the Mk III SMLE charger bridge (an extra cost of 3/9).

The bolt dust shroud was removed, along with its locking lugs, likely when the charger loading guide was fitted. The rear sight is the standard B.S.A. cape sight, i.e., 1 standing 100 yard leaf, folding leaves for 200 and 300 yards & a flip up ladder sight for 400 to 1,000 yards, however, the fixed 100 yard leaf was removed, likely at the same time as the peep sight was fitted. The front sight appears to be of military type, although the bead appears to be a platinum bead.

The rifle carries the standard 5 round fish-belly magazine. Does anyone know what the two holes at the bottom rear of the magazine are for?

The stock is fitted with the large eye sling swivel studs, the front of which is used to attach the front barrel band. The rifle also came with an original reddish-brown canvas sling, with brass furniture (2” wide) and the original sling swivel hooks!). The LOP is 14”. There is what appears to be a 1 shilling silver coin (GEORGE V KING EMPEROR) let into the right had side of the stock, along with a small compass, that actually points North. The old recoil pad is rotted and will be replaced with an original silvers Anti-Recoil pad, hopefully leather-covered.

Unfortunately, the rifle is not fitted with the BSA sliding tang safety; it is fitted with the Long Lee type bolt-mounted safety, nor with the Punchard’s magazine filler lever attachment, which I believe was superseded by the addition of the charger loading guide.

The only serial number that I have been able to locate is on the rear action strap on the right-hand side, which carries the same number as the bolt handle.

After cleaning the bore for 7 days with Wipe-Out, (my favourite bore-cleaner for the past 2 years) the patches have finally quit coming out with big hunks of blue goop on them and are now clean. The bore is almost pristine :-))

Now, if it would only warm up a bit, as I don’t much relish the thought of going to the range, with –40 C temps.

Hopefully, I can figure out how to upload some photos of her.

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jc5
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#124056 - 14/01/09 06:57 PM

Well, congratulations! Can't wait to see pics of that beauty.

Is there a space in the receiver on the left-hand side for a rotating safety lever like you'd see on a MkIII SMLE? Or is the left side smooth like a cavalry carbine? If the former, your rifle was probably fitted with the charger bridge as an optional extra by customer request.

Later commercial Lee Enfields from BSA were made on the SMLE pattern and had the rotating safety lever on the receiver just like their military MkIII counterparts.

The 21" barrel is unusual, though this could have been specified by the customer as well.

Does the knox resemble an SMLE or a Long Lee?

Pictures will tell us a lot.

Again, congrats!

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Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.

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Huvius
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#124090 - 15/01/09 02:34 AM

Old Rifle Nut's photos:

Edited by CptCurl (15/11/10 11:19 PM)

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Huvius
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Huvius]
#124095 - 15/01/09 03:19 AM

There seems to be great variation in these sporters, and I am trying to get to know what to look for in a Lee Speed.
Generally, what is the most desireable configuration?
I see now what the CLLE is and the one above has what I have seen called the "fish belly" charger.
Is this, then, the five round charger for a .303?
What would be the capacity of the fixed magazine version such as the Manton in the catalog picture posted earlier? Is it indeed fixed?
I ask, because the one I just bought is exactly like the Manton except in .303. I won't have it in my hands until next week. Can't wait!

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: jc5]
#124097 - 15/01/09 03:34 AM

JCS.

Thank you.

As for your ?',s I will try to answer as best as I can.

Re: Is there a space in the receiver on the left-hand side for a rotating safety lever like you'd see on a MkIII SMLE? Or is the left side smooth like a cavalry carbine? If the former, your rifle was probably fitted with the charger bridge as an optional extra by customer request.

I believe this to be a Metford or Long Lee receiver, given the bolt mounted safety, and the 2 small holes that were filled, as compared to several of my later B.S.A. Lee sporters, which were built on the Rifle, Short, Magazine, Lee Enfield Mk I, which had the roatating side safety. Also, the magazine has a moveable feed lip riveted to its right hand, as I have seen in several other Long Lee rifles. I believe the charger was fitted as an optional extra as I had mentioned in my descriptive post above, i.e. "and the Mk III SMLE charger bridge (an extra cost of 3/9)."

Re: Later commercial Lee Enfields from BSA were made on the SMLE pattern and had the rotating safety lever on the receiver just like their military MkIII counterparts.

The welded-up holes on the left action strap are just 2 small holes & are not like the larger safety holes / cut-outs as on the SMLE.

Re: The 21" barrel is unusual, though this could have been specified by the customer as well.

Possibly, but unknown. Upon further inspection, the front sight is made for ther Cole's front sight protector, which is, alas, no longer there.

Re: Does the knox resemble an SMLE or a Long Lee?

As I also mentioned in my original post, the barrel has a SMLE knox form, not a Metford, or Long Lee knox form.

I still believe it is a #2 pattern because of the swept-back bolt handle & the sporter style stock, with horn fore-end & pistol-grip cap, and the fact the butt-stock is not of a military or semi-military pattern, as was the case for #3 or #4, or #4b patterns, but rather is patterned after the #1 or #2 sporter patterns, however, I may be mistaken.

Jim

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Huvius]
#124098 - 15/01/09 03:38 AM

Thanks for posting my pics. I have just taken a bunch more, as well as some from some of my other B.S.A. sporters.

Jim

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#124099 - 15/01/09 04:10 AM

Jim, I sent you an email offline.

I agree that this must be a No. 2 pattern that had the charger bridge fitted, especially as the numbers all match. I would never judge a Lee Speed based on bolt, magazine, or barrel features alone (too many have had these swapped out), but taken all together and with matching numbers, it's the real deal.

The aperture sight could have been fitted at the time of purchase by the retailer.

When you post additional pics, how about one of the action from above, and one of the left side of the action? I'd also love to see some close-ups of the buttstock and the front sight.

It's pretty rare to see one that had the bridge fitted like this, rather than starting from an SMLE-type action.

...

Huvius wrote: "Generally, what is the most desireable configuration?"

These Lee Speeds have so many variations because they were done to a customer's order, not to a Government's List of Changes specification. When you factor all the options, it adds up to many variations, all of which are correct. Put yourself in the mind of an Edwardian customer, browse the BSA catalogue, and decide what is most desirable to you. That's the one to seek. I think they're all desirable and interesting, but most people seem to be most impressed by the presence of a barrel rib, like on the No.1 pattern...I don't think it's terribly functional, but it looks smart. I'd rather find a No.4b in good condition than a ribbed No.1 in poor shape. If, heaven forbid, you wanted to put a scope on it, then a charger bridged model is essential, so that you can fit a no-gunsmithing (i.e., no-drilling) scope mount.

"What would be the capacity of the fixed magazine version such as the Manton in the catalog picture posted earlier? Is it indeed fixed?"

To my knowledge, there are no Lee Speeds with fixed magazines. The magazines are detachable.

When you get your rifle, be sure to post here. Thanks!

--------------------
Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: jc5]
#124106 - 15/01/09 05:18 AM

This was an e-mail that I sent to jc5 in response to his email to me, but I thought the forum might find this info interesting as well, so am posting it for all to enjoy!

Like you, I have also been researching commercial Lee Speeds for a number of years & have been privileged to own several. I also have been working on an article for some time, however, it is now into several hundred pages, with scans from the old catalogues, etc., so it is, unfortunately, much too long for an article, so now I'm thinking it may very well turn into a coffee-table style book, along the lines of Winfers' books on Single Shots.

As for the BSA I posted some info on Nitro Forums, here is some additional info.

The number on the top right hand side of the action strap is S 194xx. The same number, albeit without the small letter S, appears on the bottom rear of the barrel. There are also several numbers in a column, each underneath an inverted V. They are from back to front: 84 56, 57, 52. In front of the barrel re-inforce, there is a P & in front of that ~ 1" a C. As I previously mentioned, the right top of the barrel has 303 then the 1916 proof marks BM under a crown, both on the barrel & the action, underneath which is NITRO PROVED on the barrel. On the front trigger guard screw boss, are the letters TS. The only other markings on the receiver are the B. S. A. C o. on the left action strap.

The only markings on the bolt are the serial number on the bottom of the bolt handle & the same proof mark (BM under a crown) marked on the barrel & receiver.

I believe the charger guide was added later, based on the position of the ejector screw, partially on the charger guide.

I have owned several #4's & #4b's, but the wood buttstock pattern was always different, some had military shaped butts, albeit with chequering and round sling swivel studs, some had military style sights and some had round knob type half-pistol grips, whereas this one has the #1 & #2 style pistol grip with horn cap fitted, the forward-swept flat top bolt handle, the cape sights.

Each of the Lee sporters I have been temporary caretaker of has been different. I also have in my small collection a Lee-Speed Patents B.S.A.Co., with the small chain on the 10 round magazine, with FOR CORDITE ONLY at the 11 o'clock position on the receiver ring, and PATENT 19.145'90 on the outside of the bolt head. The dust cover is engraved ALEX MARTIN GLASGOW & ABERDEEN in a scroll ribbon. This one has a 24 1/4" barrel with a Metford type Knox form, but with a circled E on the front of the knox form, denoting Enfield rifling. The serial number on the Knox form & barrel (106xx) does not match the number shown on the top right hand side of the action strap, which is G9xx. I believe the action strap numbers refer to a patent use number. There is a different number again on the trigger guard, engraved in large numbers 274xx, which likely was Alex Martin's serial number. I think the number on the barrel & top receiver ring is likely BSA's numbers.

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#124110 - 15/01/09 05:50 AM

Forgot to add, the B.S.A. Co. #2 referred to above also has a silver inital oval inlaid into the bottom of the buttstock, midway between the sling swivel & the recoil pad.

As for barrel ribs, I agree they are really not functional. On a W.W.Greener #1 that I had, the groups immediately started wandering when the barrel heated up & there were no pressure points on the fore-end bedding that I could see. Same thing on an Army & Navy Martini-Enfield with a barrel rib. Yet on a W.J.Jeffery Martini-Enfield sporter carbine, and an arsenal refurbished, newly re-barrelled military Martini-Enfield (25" barrel), both with no rib, accuracy continued to be fine even after I foolishly let the barrels warm up too much (if they did it in Zululand & the Transvaal, it must be ok right) ;-)

On my William Powell & Son, built on a SMLE #1 Mk III, which has a Kynoch 303 case head inlet into the under-side of the beautifully dark marble-cake fore-end wood, ~1" rearward of the forend tip, and a barrel band sling swivel mounted. This is also built on a B.S.A. Co. manufactured action, albeit with later proof marks, that was likely only retailed by Powell. I used to have a Kahles 1.1-4 scope mounted on that rifle, but am going to be replacing that with a Zeiss 3-9x40 shortly, as my eyes are not getting any younger, and this is one of my favourite hunting rifles, next to my Holland & Holland #4 Lightweight DeLuxe in .318 N.E. This rifle, which does not have a rib, regularly shoots .75" 3 shot groups at 100 yds., using new Herter's brass, 43.5 grains of RLR15, WLR primers & Remington 180 grain SPCL .311" bulk bullets, Sierra 180 grain SPT .311" bullets, Hornady 174 grain .312" RNSP or SR Custom 200 grain Semi-pointed custom bullets. Most of these bullets are not seated to within .030" of the rifling, because of magazine length limitations. I have not yet tried any of my few remaining Speer .311" 200 grain Grand Slam bullets or my 206 grain .314" SPGC lino cast bullets, but beleive they will also shoot well, given my experience thus far. My Churchill, built on a B.S.A. Co. #1 Mk III* action, will also shoot well, although it only gets ~1" 3 shot groups. The rifling in both barrels shows some wear, but were thoroughly cleaned to remove the copper fouling. As well, I necked up new brass with a .35 caliber expander & then neck-sized them to only close the bolt, to preclude the brass lengthening & splitting. After that, they get sized using a Lee collett die & I usually get 8-10 loadings per case. Of the 200 cases from 1 lot that I purchased, I had started to sort them by weight, but gave up when all cases in the lot were only +/- 1.75 grains apart. I also removed the burr from the inside of the primer flash holes & reamed the primer pockets square. I used to shoot benchrest, so am pretty anal when it comes to loading & preparation, but it does demonstrate that these ~100 year old rifles can still shoot. I'm also thinking about re-barreling a Ruger #1A in .303 with a Shilen match barrel, in a featherweight 26" contour, with battery sights (the proper name for so-called Express sights) and all the other bells and whistles, like a folding H & H style gloaming sight, trap pistol-grip cap, chequered steel butt-plate, with trap, to come up with a cheap Farquharson.

Can you tell I love the .303 Flanged Nitro Express 2 1/4" cartridge?

Happy shooting!

Jim

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#124122 - 15/01/09 08:16 AM

Hey, how do I upload photos to the site so I don't have to bug anyone else to email them & then have them up-load the photos, as my email server won't send large files and the photos I take are usually around 2 1/2 megs in size.

I am presuming, of course, that most of you would want to see some other British eye-candy!!!

Thanks,

Jim

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Huvius
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#124126 - 15/01/09 09:42 AM

Jim,
I use Photobucket - it is really easy.
Here are the other photos of Old rifle nut's Lee Sporters:

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

Edited by CptCurl (15/11/10 11:20 PM)

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Huvius
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Huvius]
#124127 - 15/01/09 09:45 AM

Here is the advertisement picture of the one I have bought:

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Edited by CptCurl (15/11/10 11:20 PM)

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Huvius]
#124163 - 15/01/09 06:54 PM

" however, it is now into several hundred pages, with scans from the old catalogues, etc., so it is, unfortunately, much too long for an article, so now I'm thinking it may very well turn into a coffee-table style book, along the lines of Winfers' books on Single Shots."

ok, when will it come out, I am waiting

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: lancaster]
#124208 - 16/01/09 06:54 AM

Patience comes to those who wait!

Actually, every time I start to believe I am ready to start editing the final draft, I keep learning something new. The title & outline of chapters, however, is as follows:

The Sporting Lees
(Lee Metfords, Long Lees, S.M.L.E. No. 1 Mk. III, & No. 1 Mk. III*’s)

Introduction
History
Rifle Types
Description
Retailers
Grades & Options
Sights
The Cartridges
Accessories
Competitive Rifles & Cartridges
Ballistics
Bibliography

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Huvius
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#124232 - 16/01/09 12:39 PM

Well, you can add Hussey to your list of retailers - that is who retailed mine.

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Huvius]
#124241 - 16/01/09 01:24 PM

Huvius:

Nice rifle.

Thanks for the info, but a few more details, please.

Is it an H.J. Hussey Limited, Hussey & Hussey Limited, Harrison & Hussey Limited, Ogden, Smith & Hussey or Lang & Hussey Limited?

Is there a barrel address?

Thanks,

Jim

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#124243 - 16/01/09 01:48 PM

Not in my hands yet.
Should be here in a couple days though.

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: jc5]
#124709 - 21/01/09 12:59 PM

Quote:

"What would be the capacity of the fixed magazine version such as the Manton in the catalog picture posted earlier? Is it indeed fixed?"

To my knowledge, there are no Lee Speeds with fixed magazines. The magazines are detachable.

When you get your rifle, be sure to post here. Thanks!

I guess there is always something to learn here...
I got my Hussey Ltd. Lee Speed today, and man, is it cool!

It does have a fixed magazine - a Harris Magazine - patent #10239, my rifle is patent use No. 30.
This magazine has a lever on the left side of the forend which lowers the bolt follower. I suspect that this is to relieve the spring pressure so the unfired shells can be "poured" out by inverting the rifle.
Is there any info out there on this feature?

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Edited by CptCurl (15/11/10 11:21 PM)

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Huvius]
#124716 - 21/01/09 02:04 PM

Huvius:
There is some info on Punchard's magazine charger (Harris patents) in Skennerton's "The Lee Enfield Story".
That system allows the cartridges to be poured in to the magazine when the lever is depressed,
and racked-up correctly when the lever is released.

I have one of these too, check out my previous post here.
They are truly marvellous things!

--------------------
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When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Huvius
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Marrakai]
#124719 - 21/01/09 02:41 PM

Marrakai,
Thanks for the link! For some reason I had not seen that before.

Your and my guns could nearly be twins! The only noticable differences being that your safety has wider grooves in it, and your magazine lever has a bigger swath cut out of the wood than mine.
Other than those two minor details, dead on the same. Yours looks to be in higher condition.

The more I handle this gun, the more I admire it. Cannot wait to see how it shoots!
I will try the loading you have listed.

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Huvius]
#124793 - 22/01/09 04:04 AM

Huvius:

Nice rifle.

So, I've now got the following as retailers, based on rifles I have owned or have seen. Can anyone add any names to the list?

Retailer Address
ARMY & NAVY Co-operative Society Ltd. 105 Victoria Street London
F. Beesley 2 St. James's Sreet, LONDON
Bentley & Playfair 315 SUMMER LANE
Bentley & Playfair LTD COLMORE WKS. SUMMER LANE
BSA & M. Co.
B.S.A. Co.
John Blanch & Son London Gracechurch Street
John Blanch & Son London 20 Cullen Street London
Thomas Bland & Sons 2 William IV Street London
C. G. Bonehill LTD Belmont Row, Birmingham
Charles Boswell 126, STRAND, LONDON, W.C.
CHURCHILL Ltd. 8 Agar Street., Strand, LONDON
CHURCHILL Ltd. Leicester Square, LONDON
CHURCHILL (GUNMAKERS) Ltd. LONDON S.W. 2
Cogswell & Harrison Ltd. 142 New Bond Street London
Cogswell & Harrison Ltd. 226 Strand London
Cogswell & Harrison 141 NEW BOND ST. & 226 STRAND LONDON
Cogswell & Harrison 168 Piccadilly, LONDON
COOMBES COMPANY Ltd. RANGOON
W.W. Greener Ltd. 68 HAYMARKET, LONDON S.W. 1
HOLLAND & HOLLAND, Limited SHOT & REGULATED BY 98, New Bond Street, London, W.
HOLLIS BENTLEY & PLAYFAIR LTD COLMORE WKS. Lench St.
HOLLIS BENTLEY & PLAYFAIR 16/17 LOVEDAY ST.
Holloway & Co. Vesey Street Gun Works, Birmingham
Holloway & Naughton Ltd 10 Vesey Street
HUSSEY LTD. 88 JERMYN STREET LONDON. S.W.
W.J. JEFFERY & Co. 13, King Street, St. James's STREET, LONDON, S.W.
W.J. JEFFERY & Co. 13 King Street St. James's Picadilly
W.J. JEFFERY & Co. 60, QUEEN VICTORIA STREET, LONDON, E.C.
L.S.A. Co.
Charles Lancaster
Alexander Martin Aberdeen & Glasgow
Charles Osborne & Co. Ltd.
Parker-Hale Ltd. BIRMINGHAM, ENGLAND
WILLIAM POWELL & SON 35, CARRS LANE, BIRMINGHAM
J. Rigby
J. Robertson 4 Dansey Yard, Wardour St., W
Victoria Small Arms Co. 226 Strand, LONDON.
WESTLEY RICHARDS & CO. LTD. GUN & RIFLE MAKERS Birmingham, England
James Woodward
Wm. Moore & Grey 165 Piccadilly, London
Watson Bros. Bond St. London

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#124795 - 22/01/09 04:09 AM

Hey, I just noticed something. If the Mauser and the Mannlicher aficionados can each have their own forum, how come we can't. I would imagine there would have to be as many Lee based sporters as either Mauser or Mannlicher-based sporters, although maybe that is just wishful thinking on my part. At least if we had our own forum, all of the info we have would be in one place, & easier to find / search.

What thinks you all?

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#124830 - 22/01/09 10:50 AM

How can these rifles be dated?
Am I right in assuming that if the patent for the magazine on my rifle is from 1900, and my rifle is use #30, then was my rifle most likely built in 1900?

I bet there is as much interest in Lee Speeds as Mannlichers, but seems like Mausers are way more popular. Probably due to rarity.
BTW, how many Lee Speed sporters were made?

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Huvius]
#124842 - 22/01/09 12:25 PM

Huvius,

Dating these rifles is difficult because there are so many variations, so many options. In your case, however, it's easy. I can barely make out a Jermyn Street address from your pic. Hussey Ltd was at that address 1912-14.

Cheers,
Jc5

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: jc5]
#126748 - 12/02/09 10:37 AM

Huvius:

I think I may have missed a couple of your posts, as I cannot see where you posted the patents #'s. You mention the patent date on your 1900 and rifle use #30 indicating your rifle's manufacturing date as 1900. Where are these #'s located on your rifle? Are you speaking of the patent use date for the Punchard's mag. filler?

Thanks,

Jim

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#126778 - 12/02/09 05:14 PM

On the Harris magazine, there is the patent number (#10239) and just below it is "No. 30".
You can just make it out in the photo posted above. I suspect this means that the rifle is the 30th example utilizing this particular patent.
I got the patent date from Marrakai's post on his similar rifle which he has linked to in his post above.

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Re: Manton, India Restrictions, BSA sole manufacturer? [Re: jc5]
#129282 - 11/03/09 11:05 AM

jc5,

Over the weekend I picked up what I take to be a BSA Lee Speed. Checkered sporter stock and express sights, horn or ebony foreend tip.

It is marked BSA and 311, with the second "1" overstruck to a "5". What do I have in the way of caliber, 8X50R or 8X57R? Or a .303 opened up to use .315 bullets? Bore is rough, but supposedly it is a shooter. Price was right.

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xausa
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Re: Manton, India Restrictions, BSA sole manufacturer? [Re: xausa]
#129340 - 12/03/09 09:03 AM

The plot thickens. A .303 round chambers easily and a CerroSafe cast of the bore at the muzzle reveals .311"-.312" groove diameter.

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jc5
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Re: 8mm [Re: xausa]
#129368 - 12/03/09 05:45 PM

Regarding the .315 (8mm) chambering, I think the following thread will answer your questions:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=75712&an=0&page=0#Post75712

This is the thread called "8mm Lee Speed."

It was NOT the 8x57 cartridge. And John Walter seems to have it wrong in "Rifles of the World" when he lists 8x51R as a Lee Speed chambering. The evidence suggests it was the 8x50R Mannlicher cartridge. BSA literature specifies it as a 240 grain bullet, muzzle velocity of 2030 fps, muzzle energy of 2199 foot pounds. Manton (as well as BSA) advertised it as the .315. As other posters have said, it was popular because of the ban on .303 ammunition in India.

What little I can contribute here is this: the rare Lee Speeds I have seen in this caliber were marked "8 mm" on the barrel, not ".315".

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Re: 8mm [Re: jc5]
#129383 - 13/03/09 12:24 AM

it seems to be that baning the 303 in allways the law
http://www.gunaccessory.com/IOF/315_rifle.htm

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jc5
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Re: 8mm [Re: lancaster]
#129389 - 13/03/09 02:25 AM

WoW! What a great link! Thanks Lancaster.

I had read about the IOF .315 but had not seen their site. (Someone should volunteer to clean up their grammar and help them post better pics!) It makes me happy to see the Lee still in production.

Is there an owner who can give us a detailed report on one of these rifles? Does anyone outside India own one of these? Can they be imported to the US?

I know that others have posted this info before--I'm just trying to sum it up here for convenience. The Indian .303 caliber ban was established in 1899, not just for .303 but for any service caliber. Some years later, the ban on .450 ammunition was relaxed, but the .303 ban seems to have remained in place ever since, even after Independence. The stated purpose was to prevent illegal gun running on the NW Frontier. Ah, gun control, so well-intentioned, so effective, so impartial... reminds me of being a kid in school when one kid raises trouble and the whole class gets punished.

For a few years there was an exemption for serving British army officers, but even they were limited to 200 rounds per year.

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Re: 8mm [Re: jc5]
#129416 - 13/03/09 11:25 AM

I made the question on another forum:
http://cartridgecollectors.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6041

Martin

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#130226 - 22/03/09 02:19 PM

Well I've done a little more work on the Lee Speed fake , cleaned up the bolt & sights and had a little engraving done on the dust cover ,the mag was a bit rough to clean up , but I can change that later , will try to blue in the next few weeks , then get stock & fit that !

Edited by CptCurl (15/11/10 11:22 PM)

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Sarg]
#130357 - 24/03/09 05:34 PM

a mauser for a mannlicher cartridge, another fact about the .315 india I believe, nice dan fraser with an unusual designation : 500/320
http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx...&GunID=1343
#3677, Daniel Fraser & Co. Ltd. London & Edinburgh: A Fraser Takedown Mauser Action Classic Bolt Rifle in Caliber 500/320 High Velocity Nitro Express (8x50R Austrian Mannlicher) Pre-War I Bolt Rifle that is totally original with a 27" barrel with an island sight with 1 standing rear sight, Ramp front sight with a fold-up night sight, Barrel sling eye, Nitro proved as a 320-S for the .323" diameter bullet, It has the neat patent Fraser trigger and engraved on the receiver bridge "Fitted With Fraser's Patent Trigger Action", Checkered trigger face with the sides engraved, Full checkered bolt knob, Matted receiver ring, Non-hinged floorplate, It has a pure classic pre-war stock with a detachable forend with a Deeley release, Henry style forend, A very nice profiled horn grip cap, Shadow line cheekpiece, Wrap around point pattern checkering, 14 1/8" L.O.P. over a checkered horn buttplate, 7 lbs. 15 oz. It has 60% coverage of original engraving on the receiver, floorplate and trigger guard, forend release, bolt handle, all screws and the rear sling eye. This is an original gun with 75% original bluing, the stock at 80% and the checkering at 90-92% and the bore is absolutely excellent plus. The gun has superb inletting and it is serial numbered on the barrel, forend, stock and action. This is nice stuff here by a superb maker of the Scottish trade. We can load ammo for this cartridge with any 8mm/.323" bullets of your choice.

I wonder how they handle the rimmed 8x50 R in the mauser zick-zack magazin.
what do you think? a mauser companion to the lee speed rifle in .315 india build for the indian market?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (15/11/10 11:23 PM)

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: lancaster]
#130390 - 25/03/09 02:07 AM

..Thats funny...I have just come across a Lee Speed Sporter in 500/320. Really nice rifle in standard grade...only £350,-- It appears that the british doens´t appreciate those guns at all...It make me wonder??.

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lancaster
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: rigbymauser]
#130397 - 25/03/09 04:59 AM

dont wonder, buy it!

and send a pm if you find a lee speed in .375

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Sarg
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Sarg]
#137461 - 17/06/09 08:53 PM

Got the bolt cleaned up and blued , next for sights & stock work !

Edited by CptCurl (15/11/10 11:24 PM)

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Story
.333 member

Reged: 15/10/08
Posts: 262
Loc: SE PA, USA

Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Sarg]
#137818 - 23/06/09 09:33 AM

Sarg,
Nicely done - how do you feel about refitting the magazine cut-off?

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Sarg
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Story]
#137838 - 23/06/09 07:26 PM

Story,
Thank you - I will be ordering fore end wood with the wood covering the mag cut-off machining ,
I think it will look a little better ?

I can get the stock maker to knock out a butt the same as BSA sporter or the English Classic pattern , which I think I will go with as I can fit a nice Silvers style recoil pad to it .
And I will cut barrel back to 21in , just for looks !

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Sarg
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Sarg]
#141558 - 04/09/09 05:40 PM

I have done a bit more on the Lee Speed Fake , begining to look like a sporter , I have changed the action to a Lee Speed action , full of holes that I will get Laser Welded up , hope the bluing will match !

I have put a Buffalo horn tip on it , from a Bull I shot so thats cool & Buff horn grip cap (not my one) still heaps to do , only glued the parts on for the photos !

She shot 10 shots in one big hole at 20yds to test the sights & head space (used gauge first) .

Edited by CptCurl (15/11/10 11:25 PM)

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Story
.333 member

Reged: 15/10/08
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Sarg]
#141770 - 09/09/09 06:53 AM

Sarg,
Nicely set up - going to checker the pistol grip yourself?

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Sarg
.400 member

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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Story]
#141772 - 09/09/09 07:16 AM

Thank you Story , I don't have the skill to checker her , so will need to get that done one day when I get more money , I will just get it all together for now , I need a wood guy to set back the fore wood as there is a little gap next to butt skocket !

I thought no one was interested & was not going to post any more photos , still might not , it is a pain !

Cheers

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Sarg]
#141851 - 10/09/09 11:57 PM

Quote:

Thank you Story , I don't have the skill to checker her , so will need to get that done one day when I get more money , I will just get it all together for now , I need a wood guy to set back the fore wood as there is a little gap next to butt skocket !

I thought no one was interested & was not going to post any more photos , still might not , it is a pain !

Cheers

To the contrary, some of us are highly interested in the progress of your project. Your stock design is excellent and should prove to have excellent handling properties. I am interested in details of the forend inletting; is the barrel free-floated, or is it tightly bedded? Pictures of the inletting would be greatly appreciated. I have had problems with wandering zeros and am looking for a good solution.

Carpetsahib

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darwinmauser
.300 member

Reged: 07/05/07
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Carpetsahib]
#142179 - 17/09/09 04:40 PM

Sarg , where did you get the front sight and barrel swivel from ??

thanks
Pete

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Sarg
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Carpetsahib]
#142186 - 17/09/09 09:03 PM

My forewood needs to be fitted better by a wood guy , the fore end is a very tricky thing on these , the Lee Speeds had a extra fastner screw , which I may fit yet .

The front sight is a Bruno 600 & I draw filed the barrel down to fit & I made the sling eye from a wood sling eye & 12Ga barrel cut off !

Took me hours , because I have no idea what I'm doing , LoL

Edited by CptCurl (15/11/10 11:25 PM)

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Old_Glass
.300 member

Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 113
Loc: BC, Canada

Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Marrakai]
#159403 - 24/04/10 11:25 AM

Quote:

Carpetsahib:
A technical question about your beautifully reworked SMLE if I may: Did the action squeeze together or open up slightly at the rear when you cut the clip-loading bridge off? I was always cautioned not to remove the bridge in my younger days of zealous 'hack-saw gunsmithing', for fear of the action closing slightly and binding the bolt. Any evidence of this in your case?

Very nice job, BTW. Congratulations. I get a lot of pleasure from seeing the old three-oh getting the attention and respect it so richly deserves!

Nice Lee Speed from MacNaughton too. Marvellous stuff!

I just bought a box of parts and sights that had belonged to a gunsmith working here in Canada in the 30s and 40s, perhaps even earlier. There were several charger bridges and pieces of others in the box, so he was obviously removing them.

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Rule303
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_Glass]
#159406 - 24/04/10 11:47 AM

Sarg that is nice work, mind you it does make me want to hunt for a butchered SMLE and do similar. Any updates on your project.

Cheers
Greg

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Phillip
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Reged: 31/05/10
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Loc: North Carolina

Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Rule303]
#161235 - 31/05/10 11:13 PM

I'm in the middle of a project myself. You guys have been a great help.

--------------------
My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.
-Winston Churchill

Edited by CptCurl (15/11/10 11:26 PM)

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Sarg
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Phillip]
#161256 - 01/06/10 07:31 AM

Sorry Greg/Rule303 , Missed your post , well sort of I now have 2 real Lee Speed part rifles & I put all the parts from the frist one on one of them (not finished) & I need a fore stock for the other & I have fitted a BSA Motty target barrel to it (not finished) & one standard Lee Speed Carbine action & 4 BSA standard sporter actions to do , Oh & a LSA sporter , none will get done now for years as I need to go out of the country for a while .

Phillip is one of those rifles a real BSA/Lee Speed you are useing for a pattern ?

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Brithunter
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Loc: Lincolnshire, England

Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Sarg]
#161281 - 01/06/10 07:05 PM

Ahhh Gentlemen ............. you do relaise that Parker-Hale did just such conversions on both the No1 and the No4 Enfields, removed the charger bridge. These were called the "Custom" and the made a coupe of side mounts to accept the normal P-H Roll Off scope rings. I recently acquired a P-H BA27 which is the side mount for the No1 Custom. BA 29 was the one for the No4 Custom. The next model down in the P-H line up was of course the Supreme.

As for wood the best stocks I have seen for these is the SILE wood that P-H used and others such as the London Armoury Co who also sporterised Enfields. Sile also supplied BSA with their stock wood and their name can be found stamped in the barrel channel or under the but pad.

Oh if someone is stuck for the English Sling eyes fittied to the British sporting rifles of this period then drop me a line as I have some I could spare. I lucked into about 30 of them, the ones that screw into the wood that is, some time ago and I don't need all 30 of them.

--------------------
Don't let the bastards grind you down!

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Phillip
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Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Brithunter]
#161283 - 01/06/10 07:44 PM

yes..

and I have an Army&Navy also,out getting some work done.

--------------------
My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.
-Winston Churchill

Edited by CptCurl (15/11/10 11:27 PM)

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458Win
.333 member

Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska

Re: Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#171469 - 15/11/10 02:02 PM

Old Rifle Nut, I just ordered a Lee Speed built by Clabrough & Johnstone so guess you can add there name as well
Will send photos when it gets here

Here are a couple photos of rifles belonging to a friend

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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Old_rifle_nut
.300 member

Reged: 13/12/06
Posts: 100
Loc: Manitoba, Canada

Re: Lee Speed Sporters for Sale [Re: 458Win]
#173583 - 22/12/10 05:39 AM

Hate to do it but raising funds for an African safari that was promised when my son graduated from Engineering. (Not to worry, one of my 5 other Lee Speed sporters will probably accompany me there.)

Army & Navy Co-operative Society Ltd. #1 Deluxe Pattern High Velocity Sporting Rifle in 303

An ARMY & NAVY CO-OPERATIVE SOCIETY High Velocity Sporting Rifle #1 Deluxe Pattern Lee Speed Sporting Rifle by B.S.A. Co. The rifle is fitted with a 24 ½” round barrel having a full-length engine turned rib. The top of the rib, above the Knox form, has the standard 3 stacked rifles BSA logo on it, while the right side of the barrel carries the standard 1904-1915 era Birmingham proof house marks thereon. The receiver, which is nicely engraved with standard fine scroll engraving, is marked B.S.A. Co. on the right action strap. The rear sight is the standard B.S.A. cape sight, i.e., 1 standing 100 yard leaf, folding leaves for 200 and 300 yards & a flip up ladder sight for 400 to 1,000 yards. The front sight is a standard HVSR front sight. The sight bead appears to be made of platinum. The rifle carries the standard 10 round Metford pattern magazine, which was actually an option according to the 1912 B.S.A. Co. catalogue. The nicely figured & finely-chequered, with mullered borders, French walnut stock is fitted with a horn fore-end tip & horn pistol-grip cap. The rifle has the standard British large eye sling swivel studs, the front of which is attached to the barrel. The LOP is 14 ¼” to a steel Buttplate, complete with trap, brass oiler & pull through, which were supplied as standard by the factory. The rifle is fitted with the Metford / Long Lee type bolt-mounted safety & border-engraved dust cover as well as the magazine cut-off. The stock carries a silver initial oval mounted ~4 1/8” forward of the toe. The bore is frosaty but lots of rifling remain. $2,000.00.

Stephan Grant & Sons #6 Pattern High Velocity Sporting Rifle in 303

A Stephen Grant & Sons Ltd. High Velocity Sporting Rifle #6 Pattern Lee Speed Sporting Rifle by London Small Arms Ltd. The rifle is fitted with a 24” round barrel having an integral front sight boss, complete with hood & ivory faced front bead. The right side of the barrel carries the standard 1904-1915 era London proof house marks thereon. The receiver is marked L.S.A. Co. Ld. on the right action strap. The rear sight is the standard pattern cape sight, i.e., 1 standing 100 yard leaf, folding leaves for 200 and 300 yards & a flip up ladder sight for 400 to 1,000 yards. Just forward of the rear sight, the top of the barrel is engraved STEPHAN GRANT & SONS 67 A ST. JAMES’S STREET, LONDON. The rifle carries the 5 round carbine pattern magazine. The nicely figured & finely-chequered, with mullered borders, French walnut stock is fitted with a horn fore-end tip & horn pistol-grip cap. The rifle has sling swivel studs, the front of which is attached to the barrel. The LOP is 14 ¼” to a steel Buttplate, complete with trap, brass oiler & pull through, which were supplied as standard by the factory. The rifle is fitted with the Metford / Long Lee pattern bolt-mounted safety & border-engraved dust cover as well as the magazine cut-off. The stock carries a silver initial oval mounted ~4 ¼” forward of the toe. $1,500.00

Photos by email request to interested parties. Note: sold to Canadian buyers only due to restrictions on export.

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Old_rifle_nut
.300 member

Reged: 13/12/06
Posts: 100
Loc: Manitoba, Canada

Re: Lee Speed Sporters [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
#177530 - 22/03/11 02:46 PM

Picked up another one to add to the small collection. This one is what I would call a 1 & 1/2 Pattern. The action straps, cocking piece, trigger guard, magazine & screws are engraved but the barrel carries a half rib (the standard B.S.A.Co. engine turned rib goes from the normal barrel / receiver joint to about 1 1/2" in front of the rear sight, where it is shaped to a point). It was retailed by Alex. Martin. The top of the barrel ahead of the front sight is stamped SUPERIOR NICKEL STEEL, has a barrel band front sling swivel & a chequering pattern similar to my Holland & Holland Mauser rifle, ie the chequering continues until it ends in a flat almost up to the horn fore-end. As well, the chequering on the hand continues around the top of the grip in a circular pattern rather than the standard arrow point pointing toward the comb. Nice piece of fiddleback & marblecake timber on it. Other than that, it is pretty well standard, with a blank silver initial plate, engraved trap butt-plate, horn (or maybe bake-lite) grip cap. Haven't gotten busy with the camera yet. Just got finished cleaning the bore & after all the blue goop came out, it looks like it could be a real shooter / keeper.

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