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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive

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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 1643
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Hunting with the 303, please report
      #312853 - 22/02/18 03:33 PM

I am looking for feedback on bullet performance with various bullets on game. Good and bad.
Any brand and weight of bullets but especially Remington 180 grain and PPU 180 grain.

Sierra, Speer Hornady, Barnes Woodleigh, Winchester Norma, any of them!

Please tell me what kind of results you have seen from various bullets on game. Details details.


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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
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Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #312858 - 22/02/18 04:00 PM

I have seen very good results form the Woodleigh 215 grain RNSN.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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eagle27
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Reged: 24/01/09
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Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #312860 - 22/02/18 04:11 PM

One of my first rifles as a teenager was a 303 SMLE Jungle Carbine. I loaded 150 grain bullets, mostly Sierra which are always a good performing bullet on red deer, probably any deer for that matter. Never saw a need for the 180 grain weight, possibly on elk, moose or big bear yes maybe, but the 150 grain at 2700fps MV or thereabouts should do everything required.

The 303 cartridge is often underrated when compared with other more modern cartridges but it performs well today with good bullets albeit the SMLE rifles don't usually have the accuracy potential as others.
Like many early hunters in New Zealand where the 303 has taken thousands upon thousands, likely millions of deer, my father often said that if he had had his BSA Hunter 7x57 and later his Shultz and Larsen 7x61 in his earlier years where he used an SMLE 303, he would have been able to hit and kill a pile more animals than he ever did with the 303. I think this was more a matter of bullets of the day rather than the cartridges themselves and of course scopes. The bullet of the day back then was almost exclusively military hardball with the tip filed or drilled to make a soft point.

Any of the bullets you list will perform well at 303 velocities.


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Claydog
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Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: eagle27]
      #312864 - 22/02/18 05:25 PM

I have shot a few buffalo with my 303 for Dog meat. I buy the cheapest ammunition I can get from my local which is the Highland 150gn. Have had no issue with it and the one in this photo was a frontal heart shot from memory. Only thing is I have to use 2 leaves more on the sights than what I should but that is probably more a regulation issue than the ammunition. Either way they kill fine if I do my part. Sure it is a cheap type projectile but proof is in the pudding as they say.



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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
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Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Claydog]
      #312866 - 22/02/18 06:55 PM

It is a very good calibre for pigs!
I drilled a good sized boar on the run at 30m or so & wondered why I him so far back?
I didn't know that I hit a 7" round gum about 5m or so closer, the bullet smashed off a 4" portion of the tree itself before hitting the boars kidney area & broke its back - it wasn't going anywhere after that!
Another pig I shot on the same day was in excess of 100kgs quartering front on diagonally through, again a spine shot & he was down, anchored well & truly.
Yes both needed a finisher.
My load is 46gn AR2208 (Varget) Remington cases, Federal 210 primer with Speer 150gn spire points/flat base. Sierra equivalent projectile shoots to the same point of aim in my old P14 Winchester.

This load has been chronographed at just under 2700fps with less the 10 fps deviation.
A note of caution must be applied here if using in a SMLE as this would be generally considered too hot & safe only in my rifle.
Can't go wrong with an old .303!


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Claydog]
      #312867 - 22/02/18 07:06 PM

Steve - most of the guys around here still using .303's for moose are using the Winchester 180gr Power Points & are very happy with them. This switch was made when the Imperial and/or Dominion 215 KlingKore SoftPoints (RN) were no longer available.

I have a close friend I chambered a .308" groove barrel for, using a .303 reamer with the pilot ground to fit the .300" bore. He wanted this chambering so he could also use factory ammo in it. The factory ammo did not shoot well, nor did the 220gr. Hornady's he wanted to use. Instead he found it a tack driver with Hornady 150gr. Interbonds, loading with full power loads of 4064 and 4320 IMR powders.

We put that barrel on a P-14 action and it now, aside from his 8x68S, it is his favourite long barreled (27") moose, deer and elk rifle - or at least seems so.

He is loading 150gr. InterBOND bullets to 2,750fps and is very happy with them on all 3 animals, taking only one shot each. The Royal Elk was the longest shot at just over 400yards. Keith is an incredible game shot, btw, is more than a bit famous around here for that prowess.
He noted every bullet was perfectly expanded, no breakups and decent penetration. His whitetail and mule deer were closest shots at just over 100 yards.

Good luck. If I was loading for a .303, I would likely use the 180gr. PP if it was available here. So far, it is not.

My only .303 is a Mark 1 #4 Enfield I re-chambered to .303 Express.(necked down .350 Rem Mag case) I have tested some 174gr. Hornadys loaded, and have some 180gr. steel jacketed Normas loaded also for testing.

The 174gr. Hornadys ran 2,940fps and 1 1/2" at 100 meters with the battle sights, however I expect they might be too soft for that speed. The barrel is a new one, but is 2-groove & .315" groove to groove. The rifle was sporterized and sold by Remington.
The 180gr. semi-round nose Norma boat tails might actually do better on most game.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
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Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #312883 - 23/02/18 03:12 AM

Thank guys.

I am looking for details because on the 2 Lee "Speed" rifles I am making I am installing express sights. They have to be filed to zero at 100,200 and 300 yards. I want to zero each rifle with a load that I know is dependable for the hunter. If I use a bullet that is so-so and the hunter wants to use another he will not have the sights set for that load or bullet.

So this is more then just a passing curiosity for me. I am looking for details on bullet performance so I know the rifles can be used on any game up to elk size and the hunter will not have to change his load.

Bones hit and broken,
Angle of the hit,
Total penetration,
Size of the game,
Retained weight (if the bullet didn't exit)-- and so on, are the kind of details I want.

I would set both for rifles to use 215gr Woodleighs, but they can be hard to get and are extremely expensive, so if I can find another bullet that works well on game up to elk size that is easy to get and/or cost less I will zero the rifles for it. If I use them to zero the guns and 2 years from now the customer can't get them, or can't afford them, I am going to paint myself into a corner.

I want to hear about Remington Core-Lokts and PPU bullets too, if anyone has experience with either one.

The Winchester Power Points get very good feed back, but you can't buy their bullets, only their ammo. At $40 a box most hunters will not buy it around here. but they will load their own. So the Power Point is on my list, but I'd use them to zero only if they were so much better than the bullets I can buy that there was no contest.

Remington makes their 180 gr Core-Lokt now and then, and sometimes you can buy them for reloading, but only about once every 3-4 years. Remington does EVERYTHING wrong when it comes to doing business and now is in bankruptcy, so their 303 bullets may be gone forever. That is a good reason for me to not zero with them at this time. If they were to "pull their heads out" and start selling the bullets again I would probably go with those, but I don't want to file express sights on 2 rifles to zero perfectly with ammo that can't be gotten or can't be afforded.


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 11736
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #312886 - 23/02/18 03:53 AM

Steve

About 30 years ago, all I hunted with was an open sighted .303 British..using 180 gr Rem Core-lokts on whitetail deer..shot a wagon load of them with that bullet..worked fine on Whitetail but would NOT be my go to bullet for moose or elk..shed lots of weight..even on a 200+ lb deer....think there are better options.. sorry could not be or more assistance..

Have not used it for much in a very long time other than taking it to the range and practicing shooting off hand on the steel plates at extended ranges..

Fantastic caliber.. IMHO..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
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Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Ripp]
      #312887 - 23/02/18 04:01 AM

Thanks Ripp
That's one I'll cross off the list. I need something that will do for both deer and elk.
So I will look at other options.


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Iowa_303s
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Reged: 22/03/13
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Loc: Iowa, USA
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #312941 - 24/02/18 01:33 AM

Good morning Steve,
I have been using my .303 British, Ruger #1 for whitetails since 2010.
My favorite bullet is the Hornady 174 grain round nose. These are readily available and inexpensive.
I have had complete pass throughs from all angles regardless of the size of bones that were hit.
In testing these bullets expand well, hold together and retain 80%+ weight.
Most deer drop within 20 yards.
I picked up some of the Remington 180 grain Corelocks but have not shot any yet.
Sierrra 180’s are designed to expand at velocities higher than the 303 can produce so I have not tried these.
150 grain Hornady bullets also work for deer but the meat damage is greater and are not as accurate as their 174’s so I do not use them for large game any more.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #312955 - 24/02/18 04:54 AM

TKS for the report on the 174's, Iowa 303 - very interesting.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
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Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #312962 - 24/02/18 05:38 AM

Thanks Iowa303.

I posted my inquiry on other forums too, and I have now heard 2 times about the good performance of the Hornady. I may go that way. The guns will not be ready to zero for about 3 weeks so I still have time to get feedback on 303 bullet people have used. So far the Hornady seems to get the best reviews of any of the American .311"s but Speer also gets some good reviews. Woodleighs get the best reviews so far, but are too hard to get at times, and too expensive for many shooters to make practice ammo with. I want these rifles to be heirlooms that will get some good use in the fields, and no one can learn to use any rifle artfully unless they practice with it quite a lot, which most shooters cannot do if the ammo costs well over $1 per shot


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prairie_ghost
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Reged: 19/07/08
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Loc: casper, wy
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #313011 - 24/02/18 05:21 PM

$1 per shot...Ditto that. Unfortunately any off the beaten path cartridge falls into this crevice. When you get it sorted out buy all appropriate reloading supplies for your heirs, they will be needing it and also be thankful for the foresight.

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CarlsenHighway
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Reged: 19/03/09
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Loc: Port Chalmers, New Zealand
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: prairie_ghost]
      #313091 - 25/02/18 10:05 AM

Having shot all red deer and fallow with a .303, I also favour the Hornady 174 grain round nose, and would not hesitate to regulate my sights on a custom .303 for this bullet, as a general all purpose load.

--------------------
If you carry a cat home by the tail you will receive information valuable to you for the rest of your life.
Mark Twain


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
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Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: CarlsenHighway]
      #313093 - 25/02/18 10:31 AM

I have taken many pigs over the years with a No.5 Jungle carbine. 150grain and 174/180 grain bullets. mainly Rem Core Loks, some Speer and Hornady I think. I would not use the Rem's now for the reasons you mention and in recent years the Core Loks have been failing, quality control does not appear to exist.

have not hunted with the Jungle Carbine for years due to eye sight but have used the Ruger No.1 in 303. I managed to pick up some Bertram 174 grain pointed soft points. Same maker as Bertram cases. break bones and stop somewhere on the far side of a pigs body.

Woodleigh would be my preference in 174 grain if they shoot to the same point of impact as a cheaper bullet for practice.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Rule303]
      #313094 - 25/02/18 10:43 AM

Our feral pigs here in Australia especially further South though do tend to be smaller, lighter and more easily killed. Compared to a true wild boar. A lot of people used to and still do hunt them with .222's, .223's, .22/250's etcc . Even .22 RFs and >22 Mag RFs which is pushing it.

A .308 or .303 was big medicine!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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coll416
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Loc: Central Queensland
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: NitroX]
      #313111 - 25/02/18 04:36 PM

A mate I hunted with used 150gn Sierra's very successfully on wild pigs up 80kg. He also used 180gn Sierra's which sailed through pigs. I think these might be what you desire Steve. The Woodleigh 174gn PP (no experience) would be my first choice based on my experiences with Woodleigh PP in 4 other calibres,shame they are hard to get over there.

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Cjdawe
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Reged: 07/04/16
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Loc: Newfoundland and Labrador
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: coll416]
      #313154 - 26/02/18 09:29 AM

Piles of Moose and Caribou shot here in Newfoundland with the .303 and most use the Remington or Winchester 180 loads ...there was a batch of bad Winchester that came here when that CXP
2 etc stuff first came about ...I personally lost my first only animal to it , it seems was very underloaded- basically flesh wounding... there were many reports of the same performance and lost animals ...All that aside it was and still is a big favourite here and a good performer

I'm actually building a sporter on my late Fathers #1 Mk III,should post some pics I geuss

Edited by Cjdawe (26/02/18 09:35 AM)


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Cjdawe]
      #313161 - 26/02/18 01:55 PM

Welcome, Cjdawe - yes - by all means, pictures! - or - you know, it did not happen.
I should talk, I no longer have a picture-uploading site.
I have not heard of those bullets out here, on the West coast.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Jim_C
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #313164 - 26/02/18 02:49 PM

I had a couple weeks free last summer, got to go to Texas and do some more "work" with a biologist and some ranchers down there. I can now pull a pig's tooth and get a sample of lung tissue with the best of them, and I was getting pretty good at getting samples from goats too. For the most part, this was control shooting, so unless I was curious I didn't put much effort into recovering bullets.

From previous experience I knew I didn't want to take a Mauser, magazine is too small. I arranged to borrow a sporterized jungle carbine (with a decent recoil pad). Ammo was loaded with the Privi 180 grain soft points. The rifle's owner loaded the ammo, I can get further load data if you need it.

The bullets worked fine on small pigs, but most bullets will. One (about 250# was shot head-on, bullet was recovered from one of the hind quarters, nicely mushroomed and weighed about 160 grains. I got five or six hogs that were >300 pounds, no problems with them. All the shots I took on larger hogs were aimed on a line through the chest at the off-side shoulder, and if I didn't hit the shoulder the bullets exited. Two bullets hit shoulders and were recovered, weights were about 145-155 grains.

I was asked to take a few other animals: a particular wildebeest, goats (they looked like a cross between meat goats raised by farmers and the Catalinas that hunters want), an impala if I saw a good one, any of the longhorns I thought were a threat, and don't shoot the camels. (I asked why the camels were there, but never got a straight answer.)

The bullets worked fine on the impala. I wound up taking 2, one shot each. One bullet exited after taking out the off-side shoulder, the other was through-and-through the chest.

No bullets were recovered from the goats. No matter what angle I hit, the bullets exited; the goats were just too-lightly built to stop them.

The wildebeest took two shots: one side-to-side through the chest but too high for a heart shot, the a stopper that hit the shoulder on my side. Core was still snug in the jacket, weight was about 140 grains. Other than a couple of coyotes, that second shot was the only one I took past about 125 yards.

All in all, I thought the bullets performed OK. They did as well as I would have expected from y limited past experience with Hornady's and Remington Core-Lokts. I'm still trying to acquire ownership of the rifle.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #313175 - 26/02/18 05:35 PM

Quote:

Thank guys.

I am looking for details because on the 2 Lee "Speed" rifles I am making I am installing express sights. They have to be filed to zero at 100,200 and 300 yards. I want to zero each rifle with a load that I know is dependable for the hunter. If I use a bullet that is so-so and the hunter wants to use another he will not have the sights set for that load or bullet.





So Steve,

Any idea what the customers want to shoot? Could make a difference between say a 214 gr, 180 gr and a 150 gr.

A different idea. Is it stupid or has it been done before? A different leaf for a different bullet? Say a lower one for 180 gr and a higher one for 150 gr?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 1643
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: NitroX]
      #313200 - 27/02/18 04:20 AM

Thanks Jim C. That's the kind of information I am looking for.

John I don't have a customer lined up yet, so can't ask. If I knew the rifle was going to be used for deer sized game only I might go with the `150 grain bullets. But I live in Wyoming and the "common game" here is elk, so I want to zero for a load that is good form them. I do expect to sell the SMLE "Speed" to someone in Wyoming just because there are many men and a few women here that are "rifle lovers" and is seems that about everyone in Wyoming hunts. I don't have to mess around with any federal regulation either, if I sell it to a Wyomingite.
Not that I would not sell to someone somewhere else in the USA, but I won't advertise it outside Wyoming at first. If Ic an't find someone in Wyoming that wants it in the first 3 months or so, I may "put the word out" in the rest of the USA.

If anyone here on this site is interested, please contact me before I finish the zeroing, if you have other preferences. I can do it any way I am asked to, but I am taking a guess as to what would be best.

I think that because the 3 balde rear sight will have zeros at 100, 200 and 300 yards, there should not be any disadvantage for the hunter of smaller deer. You simply flip up the sight that is closest to the range and hold dead on. An "elk load" kills deer ok. So other then a heavier kick, I see no down side to using a 170 to 180 grain load.

Your thought?


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 19680
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #313202 - 27/02/18 05:23 AM

Those Privi's seem a cracker for all "eating" game here.

If the Win. PP's were available for loading, those are what I would use, however the 174 Hornady also seem satisfactory.

The local wholesale Sports that closed down, had a whack of different calibres of WW PP's in plastic bags, WW logo, but no .312" 180's.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Cjdawe
.224 member


Reged: 07/04/16
Posts: 13
Loc: Newfoundland and Labrador
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #313223 - 27/02/18 11:49 AM

Well here it is ...The last time I hunted with it it didn't look like this ...like any of my personal projects it sits and gathers dust ...Stock is English Walnut ,im cutting and welding mags to the 5 shot belly style ,it has a trapdoor buttplate for extra cartridges ,horn tip and Leupold QR mounts that im custom fitting to the bridge and receiver ring ...I also have a vintage Lyman peep that I may or may not install ...I hope to have it ready for Caribou in a year or so

https://ibb.co/dwiwQx

Edited by Cjdawe (27/02/18 11:53 AM)


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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 1643
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Cjdawe]
      #313240 - 27/02/18 03:15 PM

I like it Cjdawe.
It's quite similar to the ones I am making. I am going to keep one of them and sell the other.


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #313247 - 27/02/18 04:16 PM

Quote:

John I don't have a customer lined up yet, so can't ask. If I knew the rifle was going to be used for deer sized game only I might go with the `150 grain bullets. But I live in Wyoming and the "common game" here is elk, so I want to zero for a load that is good form them. I do expect to sell the SMLE "Speed" to someone in Wyoming just because there are many men and a few women here that are "rifle lovers" and is seems that about everyone in Wyoming hunts. I don't have to mess around with any federal regulation either, if I sell it to a Wyomingite.
Not that I would not sell to someone somewhere else in the USA, but I won't advertise it outside Wyoming at first. If Ic an't find someone in Wyoming that wants it in the first 3 months or so, I may "put the word out" in the rest of the USA.

If anyone here on this site is interested, please contact me before I finish the zeroing, if you have other preferences. I can do it any way I am asked to, but I am taking a guess as to what would be best.

I think that because the 3 balde rear sight will have zeros at 100, 200 and 300 yards, there should not be any disadvantage for the hunter of smaller deer. You simply flip up the sight that is closest to the range and hold dead on. An "elk load" kills deer ok. So other then a heavier kick, I see no down side to using a 170 to 180 grain load.

Your thought?




Truthfully I have two SMLE .303's and have only ever used the FMJ ammo in them. Grinding off the tips when needed. Never used commercial ammo or bullets in them.

One is a full wood, No.1 Mk III, with pretty much all matching numbers sheerly by chance, and the other the same but cut back and probably the bore seriously worn. One day might get rebarrelled to .25, OR sold off if I can replace it with a Lee Speed. I think one would have to go, if I acquired a Lee Speed as the police might give troubles over yet another one.

If reloading for .303 I would almost certainly use the 174 gr Woodleigh PPSN. But would also consider a 150 gr SP of some description which would be more useful for what I would use a .303 for, ie feral goats and pigs. Any half decent SP would fine for them.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (27/02/18 11:18 PM)


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: NitroX]
      #313257 - 27/02/18 06:17 PM

I need a good condition Mark 1 #3 barrel. I have a complete action that needs a barrel.

My #4 is the one I rechambered to the .350 Rem Mag. necked to .303, that shoots 174gr. at 2,960fps with Re#19. They will slow down quickly due to being a semi-round nose, but it is still a good 200yard moose rifle, I guess.

1 1/2" for 3 shot groups at 100 meters - battle sights.

Got some experimenting to do this summer.

Good luck Steve. I am going to test the 174 Hornadys - maybe on a spring bear. My thread cutter is allergic to domestic meat, but he likes bear. It will not go to waste. I don't eat them any more - I quit eating black bear about 1979, but will save the inside fat for oil for my rifles.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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338Fed
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Loc: FNQ, Australia
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #313261 - 27/02/18 10:59 PM

Szihn,

I've owned and hunted with numerous .303 SMLE rifles over the last 30 years, either fullwood, sporterised, scoped or open sights.

As a teenager I mainly used the Mk7 ball, with the tip clipped off, then started reloading, mainly Speer 150 gr hotcor SP. At that time I was mainly shooting pigs and wild dogs. The Speers were good on the pigs, but supply was the main issue at the time in western Qld.

Now I'm in Far North Qld, the pigs are usually a bit bigger, and brumbies (wild horses) and scrub bulls (wild cattle) are now in the mix.

When I grab a .303 for nostalgic reasons and go for a walk, I now use the 174gr Hornady RNSP interlock. Have dropped a few bulls, numerous horses and tons of pigs with the bullet. It performs well, even on the very heavy game, always mushrooms nicely and penetrates deeply.

I have used the woodleighs in several other calibres, and reckon it would go well in the 303, but am very happy with the Hornady SP at 303 velocities to get the job done on everything up to cattle size.

Good luck


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Ripp
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #313270 - 28/02/18 02:44 AM

Quote:

Thanks Jim C. That's the kind of information I am looking for.

John I don't have a customer lined up yet, so can't ask. If I knew the rifle was going to be used for deer sized game only I might go with the `150 grain bullets. But I live in Wyoming and the "common game" here is elk, so I want to zero for a load that is good form them. I do expect to sell the SMLE "Speed" to someone in Wyoming just because there are many men and a few women here that are "rifle lovers" and is seems that about everyone in Wyoming hunts. I don't have to mess around with any federal regulation either, if I sell it to a Wyomingite.
Not that I would not sell to someone somewhere else in the USA, but I won't advertise it outside Wyoming at first. If Ic an't find someone in Wyoming that wants it in the first 3 months or so, I may "put the word out" in the rest of the USA.

If anyone here on this site is interested, please contact me before I finish the zeroing, if you have other preferences. I can do it any way I am asked to, but I am taking a guess as to what would be best.

I think that because the 3 balde rear sight will have zeros at 100, 200 and 300 yards, there should not be any disadvantage for the hunter of smaller deer. You simply flip up the sight that is closest to the range and hold dead on. An "elk load" kills deer ok. So other then a heavier kick, I see no down side to using a 170 to 180 grain load.

Your thought?




Steve.
You should throw some pics up on here of he .303.. I for one, would love to see it..

thx

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Ripp]
      #313281 - 28/02/18 07:12 AM

I'll do that Ripp.
They are not done yet. I hope to have the Irish one ready to engrave in about a week and then I'll blue it. It won't be long.
I will get the Lithgow done about 2-3 weeks later. I'll post pics of it too.


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Ripp
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #313287 - 28/02/18 08:26 AM

Quote:

I'll do that Ripp.
They are not done yet. I hope to have the Irish one ready to engrave in about a week and then I'll blue it. It won't be long.
I will get the Lithgow done about 2-3 weeks later. I'll post pics of it too.




Awesome..look forward to it..

and thank you

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ahmed577
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #313565 - 06/03/18 02:00 PM

PURDEY used federal Speer hot-cor soft 180 grain to regulate my new gun. BOSS used federal power shock soft 180 grain to regulate my new gun. Plan to use both guns on pig deer croc etc.

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Rule303
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Ahmed577]
      #313569 - 06/03/18 06:02 PM

Quote:

PURDEY used federal Speer hot-cor soft 180 grain to regulate my new gun. BOSS used federal power shock soft 180 grain to regulate my new gun. Plan to use both guns on pig deer croc etc.




Pics please and certainly pics of them with the animals you take with them.

szihn. I am with Ripp, pics when ready please.


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Ahmed577
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Rule303]
      #313575 - 06/03/18 11:16 PM

Would love to send pictures however am unable on this site. People have tried to help me however my grasp of the system fails me each time.

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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Ahmed577]
      #313578 - 07/03/18 01:18 AM

Ahmed, if you can e-mail them to me I can post them for you.
My e-mail address is szihn@wyoming.com

I will have the wood on both Lees done in about 3-4 days. Then I am going to do the engraving and the bluing. I'll then re-assemble the guns for pictures. I am sure I wan't get to the checkering for some time. Too may things to get done first, but I hope to get the checkering done on them this year. If someone was to want to buy the SMLE "Speed" I'd get the checkering done on it right away, but until someone wants it it's being built on 'speculation" and I need to do that kind of work as time allows.

Anyway, when I get them put together I'll take pics and post them. Should be pretty soon


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Ahmed577]
      #313630 - 07/03/18 10:13 PM

Quote:

Would love to send pictures however am unable on this site. People have tried to help me however my grasp of the system fails me each time.




CL,

You can email them to me as well. Though I am a little preoccupied with vintage at the moment.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: NitroX]
      #313998 - 15/03/18 08:49 AM

Ok I have the Irish Lee assembled. I still need to fit the screw heads on the grip cap and butt plate and blue them both as well as the rear swivel stud. I also have not gotten the checkering started, but here how it's looking so far.
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
L Side Irish close up by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

Edited by szihn (15/03/18 08:51 AM)


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Iowa_303s
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #314000 - 15/03/18 09:14 AM

Looking good!

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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Docbill
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #314021 - 16/03/18 12:31 AM

Man you do good work !!! I'm envious.

--------------------
Bill Boyd


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Hoot
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Docbill]
      #314022 - 16/03/18 01:30 AM

Very nice!

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eagle27
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Hoot]
      #314029 - 16/03/18 05:31 AM

How's the old saying, "you can't turn a sows ear into a silk purse", I believe you are well on the way to doing it.
That's real nice, can't wait to see it when finished and checkered.


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: eagle27]
      #314033 - 16/03/18 09:48 AM

100_1750 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
Here's how it looked when I got it.


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Rule303
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #314036 - 16/03/18 06:56 PM

Now that is a very nice rifle. The stock has good grain flow and is, to my eye, not garish. The dings in the metal of the rifle speak of tales to be told. A job very well done.

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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Rule303]
      #314490 - 26/03/18 07:51 AM

Well I did the .308" bullet test.
When I chambered these 2 rifles I made the camber to headspace on the shoulder instead of the rim. The Military chambers had the shoulders of the chambers .020" forward of the shoulder of the case and you can easily see the shoulder move forward on fired cases if you simply hold them alongside an unfired cartridge.
There is really nothing wrong with out the Brits did it but it does make case life a bit shorter if you don't neck size them after the 1st firing. Because I am supplying the dies and the load zeroed for the irons with the rifles I make, I took another approach.
I chambered the barrels so the cartridge will headspace on the shoulder with .002" clearance, and that moves the shoulder back .022". The down side is it also moves the case mouth/throat juncture back .022" so I have to trim my brass it 2.200 instead of the spec 2.222". However I found this is a cool way to dramatically increase brass life and still be able to size the case body a bit, so it enters the chamber effortlessly.

My other dilemma was the question: "What bullet should I use?"

Because these are fully custom rifles with iron sights set to 100, 200, 300 and 400 yards I need to file each sight blade to perfection, and that means I should have an accurate load capable of doing the job on any game that the rifle would be used against so the customer can duplicate that load for the life of the owner.

My 1st choice would be Woodleigh bonded bullets but they are very expensive and I do not trust the availability of them over time, because of the anti-gun politics of Australia and the looming danger of our own government shutting down importation of things "gun-related". So unless I could supply a lifetime's worth of bullets with the gun at the time of the sale (about 2000 bullets for a life time is a good guess, but there is no way I can afford to buy 2000 of them and hope someone will then buy the gun from me later.) I didn't want to zero with them and have an owner later not be able to duplicate that load.

As you all are probably aware I was asking for reports on bullet performance so I could make a decision about what bullet to load and zero with.

Problem solved!
I used .310" groove to groove barrels in this gun instead of .312. So I thought I should just try some 308" bullets and see if the metal flow from lands compressing the copper into the grooves would make a good gas seal and stay concentric. I was hoping for the best... but I knew there was no way to be sure other then to try it.

I loaded 40.3 Gr of IMR4064 with a 180 grain .308 Remington Core-Lokt in WW cases. It goes 2380 FPS. Here is how the first 3 shots printed at 100 yards.
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

The group was as good as I can shoot with my old eyes, and also about 7" high.
So I lowered the rear sight (flied to the correct height) and made a windage correction. (went a bit too much) The next 3 shots are the ones in this groups making the triangle farthest to the left.
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

So I went back just a little bit right, and fired the next 3, one of which hit the spot and 2 are so close I don't think I can correct for it at 100 with open sights. Those 3 are the smallest triangle you see, just slightly to the left, maybe about 1/2" to 5/8" from mean center of group to the center of the spot.

So I think I will go with .308s and zero the 200,300 and 400 yards blades with them.

I modified the dies to have a .307 expander instead of a .310" and it makes the cases hold the .308 bullets perfectly.
In the "180 grain 308" bullet world" there are LOTS of choices from very 'soft' bullets like Sierras BTs to tough deep penetrators like Nosler Partition and various bonded bullets, and I am sure all will be close to the right point of impact if the owners use 40.3GR of 4064.
I think my problem is behind me now.

Edited by szihn (26/03/18 07:53 AM)


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Iowa_303s
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #314499 - 26/03/18 04:44 PM

Well done Steve.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #314506 - 27/03/18 02:49 AM

Nice to be able to use .308 bullets, that is for sure.

My buddy Keith uses 150gr. Hornady Interbond in his .308 barrel chambered for the .303 - mule deer, whitetail deer and an elk first fall with it. Elk was just over 400yards. Says that bullet is perfect in that ctg.
Seems to me, he was running them 2,650fps to 2,700fps using an IMR medium burning powder.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #314509 - 27/03/18 04:04 AM

The bonding process of making bullets also softens the jackets some, so I had the same idea.

A softer jacket will obdurate more and seal the bore better (in theory) and yet bonded bullet hold together and penetrate well. I may need to buy some and try them next. I guess just for the fun of doing the experiment however.
When I look at the real-world, a 180 gr Core-Lokt Remington bullet is overall a good one, and holds together better than many standard bullets. It gets good reports on game as a rule, and I have use them for many years on deer and elk from 300 Savage, 30-06s, 308s and 30-40 Krag and never really had one fail me. I have only ever seen one come apart, and that one had it's core and jacket only 2" apart from each other. That was after it went through about 30" or elk. So I can't say it was all that bad. Most times you get either the picture perfect mushroom or an exit.

As far as the gas-seal goes, I wonder if it would matter. I don't have the super good vision I did for the 1st 50 years of my life, and a 1-3/4" group is as good as I can shoot open irons anymore, so if the the bonded bullet was more accurate I doubt I could prove it now. I have about 900 of the 180 grain Core-Lokts on my shelf. I might be smarter to just quit here and use this load for everything.

I am in my 60s now and I do not think I am going to kill 900 more big game animals in my life ------ let alone kill them all with one iron sighted Lee rifle.


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #314589 - 28/03/18 12:42 PM

I don't know what happened to my 2nd photo in the post above. It disappeared, so here it is again.
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

The 3 farthest to the left were my next group and then I moved the sight just a smidge to the right and fired the last 3, which made the smallest triangle, one inside the black. I can't do any better than that at my age with open sights. so I just left it right there.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #314594 - 28/03/18 01:09 PM

So its a .308/303.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: NitroX]
      #314595 - 28/03/18 02:33 PM

Or being British ----would it be a 303/308?

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #314600 - 28/03/18 06:00 PM

Quote:

Or being British ----would it be a 303/308?




Yep I had that first, then changed it.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Daryl_S
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #314609 - 28/03/18 08:07 PM

Steve - I have read more than once, that Nosler Partician bullets sometimes expand to fill the grooves (or close enough) to shoot well in a lot of .303's. Barnsness and Pierce, are the ones reporting this.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #314636 - 29/03/18 07:35 AM

Well I think they are correct. I only need to flow .002" to get a perfect seal. The grooves on my barrels are .310" so a .308 is very close. I used Remington Core-Lokts and they seems to be doing fine. I don't think thy are obdurating front to back as much as the metal is simply being forced side-ways into the grooves, but obviously it's filling. The Core-Lokts have a thicker jacket then some other 30 cal bullets, so I am guessing the flow is side-to side in the grooves. These groups could not be this good if the bullet was loose in the bore.

Nosler and Hornady bonded bullets may fill better, but as I said above, I doubt I could shoot any better than 1.5" or 1.75" at 100 yards with my old eyes. Even if the rifle was shooting 1/4 MOA I'd never know it. When I was young I has super good vision.

I am not young anymore.


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Daryl_S
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #314639 - 29/03/18 07:42 AM

You are right Steve, that accuracy is very good.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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mbogo3
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #315401 - 18/04/18 11:35 AM

I know it's blasphemy but he now has a 30-40 Krag sort of ?

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Daryl_S
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: mbogo3]
      #315409 - 18/04/18 01:19 PM

I did try .308" Hornady 220gr. RN's in my 2-groove #4 as I thought they might flow out to fill, due to the exceptionally wide lands displacing metal. Didn't work - lousy accuracy. That barrel is .315", from one groove to the other one.

It does shoot 174gr. Hornady's into 1 1/2", though.100metrs, battle sights.

I had rechambered it to Ken Waters, .312 Express, although mine is .315".

Using necked down .350 Rem Mag or 6.5 Rem Mag necked up to hold .303 bullets, I drive those 174's (Re#19 - or is it Re#22?memory on some stuff sucks) at 2,960fps and they shoot quite well indeed.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #315527 - 22/04/18 05:57 AM

OK, I made a bit more progress on the other gun. This one is made on a Lithgow action from 1941. I don't know if any real "Speeds" were made on SMLEs, so I'll call this a 'Speedish" 303.

I have the wood sealed and ready for final finish. I did the engraving on the magazine and trigger guard. The express sights in made and installed and I used an extremely high front sight and front sight base so I know the rifle will shoot very low. Now I can work up a load that shoot well and then lower the top of the front sight base and maybe change out the sight itself for the final zero. I am wondering if I should use 220 or 180 grain bullets. Maybe I'll split the difference and go with 200 grain spitzers.

After all the metal work is done and the rifle is perfectly zeroed I'll take it all apart one last time and rust blue the steel as I do the final finishing on the wood. They its time for checkering and after that, the final assembly.

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr



OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr


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Iowa_303s
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #315528 - 22/04/18 06:00 AM

Very nice Steve!

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #315529 - 22/04/18 06:40 AM

Thanks Iowa 303

It will be for sale soon.... PM me if you are interested.
I expect to have all the finish work done in 2-3 weeks. Checkering will be done after all the rest is finished.


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93x64mm
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #315531 - 22/04/18 07:11 AM

Beautiful work to say the least zsihn!
Yes as Eagle27 has quoted...you really have made a purse out of a sow's ear!
I have to agree with Mobogo3, you virtual now have a "British" 30-40 Krag.
In a pinch would your chamber even with the tighter bore be able to shoot the original .303 cartridge?


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Rule303
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: 93x64mm]
      #315536 - 22/04/18 08:55 AM

I like the timber in the stock. That is a good bit of work. I would go with the 180 grain projectiles. Most probably more people would be using the 174 to 180 grain projectiles for the game you would use the 303 for.

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Iowa_303s
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Rule303]
      #315543 - 22/04/18 11:37 AM

Quote:

I like the timber in the stock. That is a good bit of work. I would go with the 180 grain projectiles. Most probably more people would be using the 174 to 180 grain projectiles for the game you would use the 303 for.



I second this. The 174-180 bullets will do everything a .303 Brit needs to do.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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500Boswell
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #315544 - 22/04/18 12:58 PM

About forty years ago when I was shooting kangeroos for dog meat ,I just filed down the Military ammo projectiles [I'm told its illegal to do that now ] and used to produce perfect mushroomed bullets

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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #315545 - 22/04/18 01:02 PM

Yeah, I may just stick with what the Irish gun shoots. As we can see, it's accurate, and a 30 cal 180- grain at closer to 2400 is a good recipe for venison in the freezer. I would not hesitate to take one of these rifles after elk or moose. It's about the same as the old 180 grain load for 300 savage, and I used those when I was a boy and never had any problems.

Thanks for your kind words gentlemen.

I like these old Lee sporters. Light and easy to shoot well.

I head spaced the chamber to set on the shoulder of the shells so there will be a lot less working of the brass in firing then with the military spec chambers. I simply didn't run the reamer in to the rim. I let the cartridge hit the shoulder with a .002" on the base. That means the rifles work best with the brass shortened from 2.222 to 2.200. But as was said by 9.3X64, you can still fire factory ammo. In fact, that what I did to get the sights close before I worked up the load with the 180 gr Core-Lokts. If anyone prefers the standard chamber I can always run the reamer in all the way, but for my own gun (or guns) I prefer to shorten the necks and let the brass head space on the shoulders.


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #315547 - 22/04/18 01:23 PM

Lovely engraving, very tasteful and not over the top. Well done. Did you actually do the engraving yourself?

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #315549 - 22/04/18 01:57 PM

Yes, that my "scratching"

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Waidmannsheil
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #315551 - 22/04/18 03:13 PM

Very good indeed. Did you use a hammer and chisel or did you use one of the air gravers.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #315556 - 22/04/18 11:53 PM

Both.
I have a GRS machine which I can use on smaller objects, but when I have work to do on something too long to go in the engravers ball, I just use my bench vice and use the hammer and hand chisel. I do some engraving on barrels of the muzzleloaders I make, and many of them are 42 to 48 inches long, so those are best done all with hand tools.
The floor plate on the magazine I did with the GRS, but the guard was cut by hand, and so was the socket on the Irish gun


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Daryl_S
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #315561 - 23/04/18 03:23 AM

Really nice work, Steve.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #315617 - 25/04/18 04:58 AM

Thanks guys.


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #315650 - 26/04/18 07:36 AM

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr


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leeenfield
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #315655 - 26/04/18 08:55 AM

PM sent

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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: leeenfield]
      #315770 - 28/04/18 02:28 PM

Looks like the SMLE "Speed" is sold.

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PapaScarface
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #315777 - 28/04/18 05:10 PM

Szihn I would have been all over it if it was in Australia!

what rear sight option did you use?


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: PapaScarface]
      #315787 - 29/04/18 12:04 AM

Papa, I had to make the rear sight bases out of bar stock. The 3 blade express sights were commercial ones available at one time from SARCO, but I think they are all gone now. They are marked 100,200 and 300 but on my Irish rifle (the one I will keep) I hand-made another fixed sight and soldered it to the base behind the folders, so the 100 is now zeroed at 200, the 200 at 300, and the 300 at 400. The sights on the SMLE were marked 100, 200 and 300, and because it was going to be for sale, I didn't add the fixed sight and I though it would be best to have them zeroed as marked.
Both rifles are zeroed for 180 grain bullets at 2400 FPS.

The fixed sights is zeroed at 100. The front sight base and sight itself are Williams brand, and I bought them from Brownells.


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PapaScarface
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #315800 - 29/04/18 08:31 AM

Szihn, very nice work! Thank you for the info on the sights.

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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: PapaScarface]
      #315830 - 30/04/18 12:35 AM

I don't know what would be involved in bringing a 303 "Speed" back to Oz from the USA. It might be impossible (which is what the communists will want)

But if ever you are going to visit the USA and if you would know a year or so in advance, and if there is a way to legally bring it with you when you return home let me know. I may be able to have one ready for you.


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Rule303
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #315844 - 30/04/18 07:43 AM

Quote:

I don't know what would be involved in bringing a 303 "Speed" back to Oz from the USA. It might be impossible (which is what the communists will want)

But if ever you are going to visit the USA and if you would know a year or so in advance, and if there is a way to legally bring it with you when you return home let me know. I may be able to have one ready for you.





There is away. A bloke in Western Victoria does this for s reasonable price. The hic-up might be at your end Steve as I think you need clearance and to part with some dollars. If anybody in Aust. wants his details let me know and I'll get them from a mate who has used him.


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Daryl_S
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Rule303]
      #315846 - 30/04/18 08:32 AM

Export licenses can be VERY expensive, Sates Side. Maybe that will change with the change in Government as it came about during the gay-man's 1st term.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #316041 - 04/05/18 01:11 AM


Laws vary a great deal from country to country.

I have folks that come to pick up flintlock rifles from European nations. If they bring them in on the airplane coming back home, the tax is very low. If I ship them the tax is super high. So high that airfare, round trip, is cheaper.

That's why they come get them.

I have no idea how it would work with the Australian government. About 20 years ago a couple from New Zealand came and picked up 2 flintlocks from me. It was not a problem for them, but a 303 Lee is classes differently then a muzzle loader in most countries.

England has become impossible for all practical purposes. France and Germany are not too bad. Poland is supposed to be easy and Hungary is super easy. But England and all the countries it has influence over have become harder and harder (socialism at it's worst)with England itself being impossible. I never thought I's see the day, but now it's easier to get hunting rifles into and out of Russia than it is England.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #316047 - 04/05/18 03:13 AM

Quote:

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr




Beautiful work Steve. Amazing how nice a rifle can be turned out with your skills.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: NitroX]
      #316060 - 04/05/18 01:31 PM

Thanks John
I hope to fill my freezer with the Irish Lee. The SMLE Lee is spoken for, and I hope the new owner will do the same.


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Iowa_303s
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #316116 - 05/05/18 03:31 PM

Quote:

Thanks John
I hope to fill my freezer with the Irish Lee. The SMLE Lee is spoken for, and I hope the new owner will do the same.




So does the new owner!

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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Sarg
.400 member


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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #316118 - 05/05/18 03:41 PM

Great work Steve, came out great, Ive been working on my ones for over 10yrs including a .405 .375 & 303's some are getting close now lol !

Just bought a Sporter built on a LEC Carbine action as it had a Lee Speed front sight on the barrel, I have found a few rear sights & magazines but this was the first front sight Ive seen !

--------------------
No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country.

- General George S. Patton


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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
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Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Sarg]
      #316128 - 06/05/18 01:29 AM

Cool Sarge..
Post a picture.


Matt, I was not going to spill the beans, but if it's OK with you I sure have no problem telling everyone that you are getting the new "deer slayer"


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Iowa_303s
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #316129 - 06/05/18 02:19 AM

No problem by me Steve.
I was going to be seen sooner or later anyway.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
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Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #316135 - 06/05/18 06:42 AM

I ask one favor from you.
When you get the rifle you need to change your name to Iowa 303s instead of Iowa 303.


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Iowa_303s
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #316138 - 06/05/18 08:03 AM

Quote:

I ask one favor from you.
When you get the rifle you need to change your name to Iowa 303s instead of Iowa 303.





--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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JohnK
.275 member


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Posts: 59
Loc: Australia
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #316259 - 10/05/18 04:37 PM

I have my Lee Speed "look a like" sighted for Woodleigh 215 gn projectiles. Velocity is around 2200 FPS. I have shot a few pigs and goats. Never recovered any projectiles as they completely penetrated. A couple of photos.





--------------------
JohnK


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: JohnK]
      #316263 - 10/05/18 11:03 PM

That's a sharp looking rifle JohnK. Can you post a picture of the other side too?

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Daryl_S
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #316269 - 11/05/18 01:46 AM

Ohh NICE, no, lovely, perhaps spectacular piece of walnut.
That is a nice rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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JohnK
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #316277 - 11/05/18 09:50 AM

Quote:

That's a sharp looking rifle JohnK. Can you post a picture of the other side too?




I posted a few photos a few years ago but I see they have all been removed (Photobucket).

A couple of photos of the rifle as requested.







--------------------
JohnK


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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: JohnK]
      #316282 - 11/05/18 01:59 PM

Just wonderful!

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MickoC
.224 member


Reged: 19/11/09
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Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #316367 - 14/05/18 06:07 PM

Lovely job ,I noticed you have also retained the bolt dust cover as per the originals.
Did you do the wood work and the metal work yourself.


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Rule303
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Posts: 3597
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: JohnK]
      #316368 - 14/05/18 08:44 PM

That's a nice looking rifle JohnK. Who did the stock work? Was it Daryl Stephenson?

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JohnK
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: MickoC]
      #316384 - 15/05/18 07:26 AM

Quote:

Lovely job ,I noticed you have also retained the bolt dust cover as per the originals.
Did you do the wood work and the metal work yourself.




Tony Small built the rifle. I only supplied the action. Yes kept the dust cover.

--------------------
JohnK


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JohnK
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Rule303]
      #316385 - 15/05/18 07:27 AM

Quote:

That's a nice looking rifle JohnK. Who did the stock work? Was it Daryl Stephenson?




Tony Small done all the work. The stock blank came from Tasmania.

--------------------
JohnK


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Marc
.224 member


Reged: 12/07/18
Posts: 14
Loc: South of France
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #318359 - 23/07/18 04:19 AM

Howdy guys,

Here is my work rifle. I bought it randomly at a local gunshop, it was cheap. No one uses this ammo at hunting here, but it turned out to be my meat-on-the-table rifle. Underpowered compared to what others own, but it's very accurate, fast, reliable and it makes up. Moreother, it's not pretty, and I don't know why but I like it.

I shoot Sierra Pro hunter 180 grs at around 2,300fps. I appreciate this bullet weight because in my forest, I can shoot from 2 to 200 yards. The load is very accurate, but I'm rather disappointed by the results regarding boar hunting.
A few months ago I shot a boar 4 meters away. The boar fell down straight away, but a fmj would have done exactly the same job, without any expansion.
I reckon I'll figure out a load using patch papered slug...



[image][/image]


[image][/image]


[image][/image]

Edited by Marc (23/07/18 07:16 AM)


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Daryl_S
.577 member


Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Marc]
      #318363 - 23/07/18 08:31 AM

Marc - is that a #4 with the receiver sight base milled off and an open sight mounted ahead of the action?

If wanting to use a paper patched slug, I would 'slug' the bore and measure it carefully to ascertain the actual groove diameter, then get a mould that cast a lead slug approximately .300" in diameter, then paper patch it to fit the grooves - or .001" to .002" larger than the groove diameter.

With a hard alloy paper patched bullet, there would be no velocity limit as-with grooved lubricated bullets.

You would be able to load them to 2,500fps if you wanted to, depending on the weight.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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yumastepside
.300 member


Reged: 25/10/15
Posts: 194
Loc: Tasmania Australia
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #318366 - 23/07/18 05:04 PM

......the first thing I noticed was the lack of bridge and the one piece stock.....very interesting.

Roger

--------------------
none


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Marc
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Reged: 12/07/18
Posts: 14
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #318369 - 23/07/18 05:44 PM

Yep! It's a modified #4, but I've never seen such a modification, perhaps this is due to a local gunsmith? The bore is in overall good condition, and it seems that it hasn't been too much shot; cases are perfect after firing.

I measure my bore 313" at groove, and 304" / 305" ont the lands. I figured I would order at Nei a 305" mold for pure lead, so I could have slighly "bumped up" my bullet with the alloy, or increase the paper thickness if needed.

In my opinion a 200 / 210 grs PP bullet would be devastating.


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Jim_C
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: yumastepside]
      #318393 - 24/07/18 11:57 AM

Marc, could I impose on you for a picture of that rifle with the stock removed? I'm curious exactly how the action was modified, and how they mated it up with the bedding in the one-piece stock.
Thanks,
Jim


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Marc
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Posts: 14
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Jim_C]
      #318397 - 24/07/18 03:41 PM

Here it is!

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

[image][/image]

[image][/image]


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yumastepside
.300 member


Reged: 25/10/15
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Marc]
      #318398 - 24/07/18 07:06 PM

Did anyone get a copy of the picture of the one piece stock before photofxxxit took it away ??

Roger

--------------------
none

Edited by yumastepside (26/07/18 07:00 AM)


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Marc
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Reged: 12/07/18
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: yumastepside]
      #318412 - 25/07/18 08:02 PM

[image][/image]

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yumastepside
.300 member


Reged: 25/10/15
Posts: 194
Loc: Tasmania Australia
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Marc]
      #318430 - 26/07/18 06:59 AM

Thanks Marc, that conversion on the action to remove the butt socket and fit a one piece stock really intrigues me......the tinkering side of my brain keeps saying " you gotta try doing one of those "
I have a No I MkIII converted to 7x57R that would look good with a one piece stock...thanks for the post.

Roger

--------------------
none

Edited by yumastepside (26/07/18 07:02 AM)


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Jim_C
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: yumastepside]
      #318438 - 26/07/18 08:12 PM

thanks!

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Daryl_S
.577 member


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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Jim_C]
      #318450 - 27/07/18 03:31 AM

A bloke back in the 70's at the range I frequented, had a #4 he'd converted. I thought it interesting at the time, but am more-so inclined now to think of it in regards to my own #4..

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
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Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #320081 - 26/09/18 08:19 AM

This one is ready to kill some game.
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr


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Sarg
.400 member


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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #320087 - 26/09/18 02:12 PM

Very nice job, looks the part, well build with some excellent engraving & checking, wish I could do any of that !

--------------------
No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country.

- General George S. Patton


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Hoot
.224 member


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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Sarg]
      #320097 - 27/09/18 12:30 AM

Lovely Sir! Well done.

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Rule303
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #320104 - 27/09/18 07:52 AM


That is one sweet looking rifle. Well done.


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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
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Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Rule303]
      #320114 - 27/09/18 12:00 PM

Thanks gents.



Iowa 303s
Be on the look out...

Edited by szihn (27/09/18 12:02 PM)


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Iowa_303s
.375 member


Reged: 22/03/13
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Loc: Iowa, USA
Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #320115 - 27/09/18 12:07 PM

Thanks szihn.
I'll be looking out!
Brass, bullets and powder are ready.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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Ripp
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #320116 - 27/09/18 12:09 PM

That's a nice looking rifle Steve..nice work

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Ripp]
      #320119 - 27/09/18 12:18 PM

Thanks Ripp.


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #320133 - 27/09/18 09:04 PM

Very nice rifle Steve, you did a great job there with nice checkering and tasteful engraving. Super well done.

Matt.

--------------------
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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #320274 - 02/10/18 09:14 AM

Thank you Matt.
Iowa303s got it today and seems to think it may be OK to kill a deer with.

I hope he makes a mountain of good meals with that rifle in the coming seasons.


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Iowa_303s
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #320278 - 02/10/18 12:16 PM

As szihn said, I took possession of the rifle today.
I have been waiting patiently for this day and to say I'm more than pleased is a very large understatement!
The photos that have been shown do not do this rifle justice. It is an absolutely wonderful looking and handling rifle.
Now it's time for us to go to the range and get acquainted before deer season begins.
Reports to follow.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #320308 - 03/10/18 04:07 AM

Well I was out chasing deer with mine this morning. I had an opportunity to kill 2 of them, but passed on both. Too small, in a month long season. So I will see if I can find a larger one and hunt longer.


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Dogfish858
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #320365 - 04/10/18 09:14 AM

Lots of nice .303s here.

In my limited shooting of the .303 I've kept a constant search for old Dominion 150 grains. Seem to kill bears quite dead.

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?


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Daryl_S
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Dogfish858]
      #320368 - 04/10/18 10:34 AM

Bunch of guys around here preferred WW. 180gr. Power Points when the availability of 215 Dominion's dried up.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Iowa_303s
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #320371 - 04/10/18 01:24 PM

Took the "Speedish" Lee out this evening on its maiden voyage.
Used .308" diameter 180 grain Remington Corelokt bullets and IMR4064 powder. Started at 38.5 grains and stepped up slowly to 40.2 grains with no pressure signs. Primers are still nice and round at the edges.
Groups went from 2" for 5 shots at the beginning and my best (with 40.2 grains) was 1.6"!
Recoil is straight back and feels light.
Going out next week to practice field position shooting and to test impact with the 200 & 300 yard sight leaves.
Did I mention I am really liking this rifle?

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #320567 - 12/10/18 02:58 AM

Matt, why is there still no "S" on your screen name?

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Daryl_S
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #320569 - 12/10/18 03:09 AM

Well done, Matt.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Iowa_303s
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #320572 - 12/10/18 03:38 AM

Quote:

Matt, why is there still no "S" on your screen name?



Name change now waiting on admin approval.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #320614 - 13/10/18 02:31 PM

Well, the Speed strikes again. Patterson would be proud.
Not the one Matt got from me, but the one I kept. It drew first blood today. Smallish Whitetail Buck. One shot through the chest that exited the off shoulder. He ran about 20 yards and fell. Shot was about 60 yards.
Load was 40 grains of 4064 in WW brass with a WW primer and a 180 grain Remington .308 Core-Lokt. Both of our rifles have 310" groove diameters and the 180 grain .308s seem to shoot very well.

When I was a boy my dad had a Savage M99 in 300 savage and we sometimes used 180s in it. 180 at 2400 FPS, this load is a .308 180 grain at 2375 from my rifle so I knew exactly how it would act, and it did.


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Iowa_303s
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #320626 - 14/10/18 05:43 AM

Congrats Steve!
Can’t wait to get mine into the field in December!

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #320639 - 15/10/18 03:37 AM

I, once again (stupidly) didn't take the camera. So I can't show the little buck and now it's ready to butcher. I will cut and wrap it tomorrow. If you have a cell phone (I don't) please take a pictures if you kill one and send it to me with the rifle too.
Thanks


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Iowa_303s
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #320651 - 15/10/18 12:18 PM

Quote:

I, once again (stupidly) didn't take the camera. So I can't show the little buck and now it's ready to butcher. I will cut and wrap it tomorrow. If you have a cell phone (I don't) please take a pictures if you kill one and send it to me with the rifle too.
Thanks




Sure will Steve. That was the plan anyway.
May not be anything special though. Smaller bucks get a pass to grow. Does for meat, and a trophy buck of one happens to appear.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #322221 - 06/12/18 05:23 AM

Well Iowa, I have not heard from you in a while.

How'd it go?


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Iowa_303s
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #322230 - 06/12/18 10:53 AM

Hi Steve,
We leave Friday evening for Tennessee. Going spend a couple of days visiting with friends.
My son and I will start hunting on Monday 12/10.
I'll let you know how it goes when we get back. Not much for internet connection in a cypress swamp.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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szihn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #322255 - 07/12/18 03:21 AM

Good times are coming.
Have fun, be safe, and I hope you both get big deer.


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Marc
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: szihn]
      #323214 - 12/01/19 02:27 AM

Howdy folks!
I shot a few boars with mine, but I'm not satisfied with the expansion of the Sierra 180grs I used. Here almost nobody uses 303, so there is a very poor choice of hunting bullets, I decided to paper patch.
I cast 205grs bullets with the Lyman 314299 and 185grs flat nosed and plain based bullets with the Noe 314 175, both sized at 304", 30 /1 lead tin alloy.
I think the heaviest bullet will not be accurate, feel the 302" nose is too small as often with Lyman ... we'll see at the range; but I'm confident with Noe.
For the moment I'm happy with the result!
I keep you aware.

[IMG]https://beta-static.photobucket.com/images/f349/Bouteselle/0/d4a07bd7-62db-44b6-883b-bb8369ba798a-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/IMG]

[IMG]https://beta-static.photobucket.com/images/f349/Bouteselle/0/725f9a07-1482-46ae-a1cc-b378f657ae70-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/IMG]


[IMG]https://beta-static.photobucket.com/images/f349/Bouteselle/0/28385f1b-8e4a-43bc-aa13-1c29563453c8-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/IMG]



Edited by Marc (12/01/19 03:58 AM)


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Daryl_S
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Marc]
      #323220 - 12/01/19 05:40 AM

I would be happier with any flat nose I think Marc, due to the cavitation & expansion promoted by the flat nose.
Sometimes, paper patched bullets can be a big surprise, as to nose diameters. More than one experimenter has found best accuracy with patched and grooved lubed bullets up to 2 thou. smaller noses than the bore.

This was with black powder and that might have been a deciding factor.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Marc
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #323223 - 12/01/19 06:28 AM

Yes, I hope this flat nosed bullet will work.
Here it is, unsized and patched.

[IMG]https://beta-static.photobucket.com/images/f349/Bouteselle/0/66290748-2504-4ebc-bbb2-cc91287cb65c-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/IMG]

I think it's pretty and deadly. Unfortunately the aluminium Noe mold is a hell to use... If it works I'll order a better mold.


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Rule303
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Marc]
      #323226 - 12/01/19 09:55 AM

I am with Daryl on this. I think the flat nose will perform better on game animals. Hope you get to try them soon and put up some photos of the animals you have taken with it.

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9.3x57
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Rule303]
      #323242 - 13/01/19 01:33 AM

Marc:

That flat nose bullet looks great. And what a fascinating rifle!

I am w/ Daryl & Rule303. I have had some poor results with bullets that did not expand and in testing bullets which I used to post here years ago, it was revealed just how LITTLE damage a non-expanding pointed or RN will often provide if it stays on course. Simple holing, what I call the "ice pick effect" was of course the rule with the long, hard-jacketed Round Nose FMJ's of the early years of military "small-bores" {6.5-8mm} when impact took place at any range when the velocity had decreased down below about 1800 FPS and sometimes even at the higher near-muzzle velocities. Contrastingly, this "ice pick effect" was left behind with the terrible discovery of the light Spitzer bullet at much higher velocity and in 1905 era and following. It shows in the test media!

My favorite bullet in the .303 was the old Remington Core-Lokt 180 grain Round Nose. This bullet miked .310 and shot very well in .303 Brit and 7.62 Russian Mosin-Nagant rifles. Superb champignons were the rule! Or if you are in the Southwest of France, should I say perretxiko's? LOL.

One trick i found in years of playing with bullets is to flat point them. Various ways can be used, but I found that spinning selected socket over the bullet to scribe a line around the nose and then simply removing the tip to the scribed line on a grinding wheel works very well. Of course, there are other less "Hill Billy" ways to accomplish the same thing, but this method can be used to flat-point your semi-pointed and RN cast bullets, too and should improve their terminal effect.

Here's a bear shot with my gone-now No 5 MKI "Jungle Carbine". Remmy 180 RN CL of course;



And another with the same slug from a Finn M39;



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Daryl_S
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: 9.3x57]
      #323247 - 13/01/19 05:09 AM

Friend of mine has a 6 pound Savage .300 Win. Mag. While not for the weak of heart and shoulder, he prefers shooting the 180gr. Hornady RN for moose and elk.
Notes every animal he's shot gave strong evidence of the hit and folded up right away. He said the slap (sound) of the bullet impact was unmistakable & A LOT louder than any other bullet he's used.
I'm used to a thump/whump, while he said these really "crack".

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Marc
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #323255 - 13/01/19 08:48 AM

What I appreciate with Sierras is that they're accurate, but a fmj wouldn't do a worse effect; perhaps it lacks some speed.
Here I hunt in very very brush area, but unfortunately not as remote and tremendous as you all! Most of time I shoot very close, but sometimes as far as 200 yards, and always on running boars.
The others hunters use more powerful cartridges, like 300wm or 9,3x74R, and shoot randomly. I think it's useless, I don't feel undergunned with my little 303".
Two years ago I used a 1892 Berthier mousquetoon, 8mm Lebel. Another very effective cartridge, unfortunately nowadays underrated.

Ps: I believe perretxiko's are in Spain!


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Daryl_S
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Marc]
      #323256 - 13/01/19 09:20 AM

Here, about the best factory ammo nowadays for the .303 is the 180gr. Winchester Power Point, since mfgr's stop producing the 215gr. RN. The most hunting with .303's here is moose in the bush.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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9.3x57
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Marc]
      #323263 - 13/01/19 11:49 AM

Quote:

What I appreciate with Sierras is that they're accurate, but a fmj wouldn't do a worse effect; perhaps it lacks some speed.
Here I hunt in very very brush area, but unfortunately not as remote and tremendous as you all! Most of time I shoot very close, but sometimes as far as 200 yards, and always on running boars.
The others hunters use more powerful cartridges, like 300wm or 9,3x74R, and shoot randomly. I think it's useless, I don't feel undergunned with my little 303".
Two years ago I used a 1892 Berthier mousquetoon, 8mm Lebel. Another very effective cartridge, unfortunately nowadays underrated.

Ps: I believe perretxiko's are in Spain!




Marc: I had a bad experience many years ago with a Sierra 180 Spitzer in .30-06. Shot a small deer broadside at maybe 25 paces as it strolled by me. Shot it right behind the shoulder and was worried about ruining a lot of meat. I shouldn't have worried, as it just ran away from me and I lost it in the dense sage. I eventually found it at dark and upon opening it up found a wound channel that could have been made by a shishkabob skewer. Nothing but a small hole. No peripheral hemorrhaging or bloodshotting. In fact, the opposite of what I feared! I have not used many Sierras but I had exactly the same experience on the same farm with a deer shot with my .375 H&H Magnum and the 300 grain Spitzer Boat Tail. That one I shot from a prone position on a ridge of rimrock while the thing fed in an alfalfa field. distance 270 paces. In truth, one of the longest shots I've ever taken on game. That one made a 3/8" hole on one side and a 3/8" hole on the other. Watched the critter run the length of the field, some hundreds of yards and then disappear in the sage flat above Lake Roosevelt. I looked and looked for it and then about ready to give up kicked it and almost tripped over it!

I chalked that that one off to the slow speed of the bullet which was 2350 on the first chronograph I ever bought. {RIP...ended it's life to a 285 grain 9.3 bullet many years later... LOL}

Quote:

Here, about the best factory ammo nowadays for the .303 is the 180gr. Winchester Power Point, since mfgr's stop producing the 215gr. RN. The most hunting with .303's here is moose in the bush.




The Power Points are superb bullets. Have tested a number. In my opinion, it and the standard Remington Core-Lokt are the safest choice in game bullets ever made, subject to their ballistic limitations.

Daryl, does anyone use the 180 .303 {.310} Remmy Core-Lokt up there? Is it still loaded? I don't even know as I haven't owned a .303 in many years. Remington factory ammo is sometimes underloaded in the old standard calibers, so I'm not sure what the factory ammo produces, as I almost never shoot a round of factory ammo anyhow.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Marc
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: 9.3x57]
      #323268 - 13/01/19 11:47 PM

Done some shooting this morning... awful!
The least worst was done with slightly thick paper, however I followed exactly what Matthews said in in his book "The paper jacket'.
My bore mesures .3035 from land to land, bullet is sized 304", and I tried two papers .0015" and .0025".
Bullets patched mesures .311" and .315", and they don't work at all.
I will have my sizer enlarged to 305" and we'll see.
For the moment I'll follow your advice, I'll bought Remington core-lokt. I'll never be ready before the ending of the hunting season with my paper patched bullets!


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Daryl_S
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Marc]
      #323269 - 14/01/19 03:40 AM

Marc - your alloy has to be soft enough to have "some" obturation.

Rod, I havne't seen any green box .303's for quite a while, around here.

The .312" Hornady 174's, out of my (Ken Waters).312 Express shoot very well indeed. 1 1/2" at 100 meters. I have not put them into an animal yet. That round is chambered in my #4 & does 2,974fps with that bullet. Likely a bit fast for it inside 150 meters.
This 2-groove barrel is .315" groove to groove.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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9.3x57
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #323285 - 14/01/19 01:07 PM

Quote:

Marc - your alloy has to be soft enough to have "some" obturation.

Rod, I havne't seen any green box .303's for quite a while, around here.

The .312" Hornady 174's, out of my (Ken Waters).312 Express shoot very well indeed. 1 1/2" at 100 meters. I have not put them into an animal yet. That round is chambered in my #4 & does 2,974fps with that bullet. Likely a bit fast for it inside 150 meters.
This 2-groove barrel is .315" groove to groove.




I've never used the horn 174's you reference. But we've tested and killed game with several Hornady Round Nose bullets and other Interloks which perform in game very similarly. They are invariably very accurate. Often amazingly so. They are fast-opening and length and/or weight seem to have no bearing on that. The fast opening {core loss, admittedly} and massive hemorrhaging that is common to these bullets must be taken into consideration and they can be taken advantage of depending on shots taken. I'm not shooting elephant and rhino, so it is often a lus, not a minus. I should add a caveat in that the 300 grain Hornady .375 Interlok can act as a FMJ at lower than about 1800 fps.

Same actually applies to other Interlok bullets. My son stopped using them when he had a couple blow up a lot of meat on deer and elk and went to Nosler P-titions in his Howa 6.5x55, but they have their own drawback.

Daryl, that round you quote is a screamer, and would at close range really put the stress on those bullets.

BTW: A friend had a #4 with a 2-groove barrel that slugged .308 in the grooves. Yeah,..... .308! Blew primers with every trigger pull!! I can't remember the make, but I always wondered if the maker used 1917 Enfield or '03 Springfield blanks for a run of Enfields.

I can only imagine the neck relief was the culprit!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Iowa_303s
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: 9.3x57]
      #323286 - 14/01/19 01:35 PM

I have used the Hornady 174 grain RNSP extensively on whitetail deer from my Ruger #1 in .303 British.
Muzzle velocity is 2430 fps over my chronograph.
Ranges between 20-200 yards.
They expand well but not excessively so and penetrate well. I have never recovered one from a deer as the have all completely passed though.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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9.3x57
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #323292 - 15/01/19 12:27 AM

Quote:

I have used the Hornady 174 grain RNSP extensively on whitetail deer from my Ruger #1 in .303 British.
Muzzle velocity is 2430 fps over my chronograph.
Ranges between 20-200 yards.
They expand well but not excessively so and penetrate well. I have never recovered one from a deer as the have all completely passed though.




Have you ever miked those 174 bullets? IIRC the spec are .312?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Ripp
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #323296 - 15/01/19 03:27 AM

Quote:

Marc - your alloy has to be soft enough to have "some" obturation.

Rod, I havne't seen any green box .303's for quite a while, around here.




Weird...here in my neck of the woods, you can find ammo for the .303 British in pretty much every store.. usually Fed or Hornady... I keep an eye on it as I have one as well...so grab a box from time to time..

Its also available on MIDWAY USA --

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (15/01/19 03:28 AM)


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Iowa_303s
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: 9.3x57]
      #323299 - 15/01/19 05:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I have used the Hornady 174 grain RNSP extensively on whitetail deer from my Ruger #1 in .303 British.
Muzzle velocity is 2430 fps over my chronograph.
Ranges between 20-200 yards.
They expand well but not excessively so and penetrate well. I have never recovered one from a deer as the have all completely passed though.




Have you ever miked those 174 bullets? IIRC the spec are .312?



Yes, the Hornady .303 bullets measure .312” diameter.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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Daryl_S
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #323301 - 15/01/19 06:42 AM

Yes - they are .312, as noted in my post above.
I am also shooting them in my single shot 8.15x46R which has a .315" groove to groove measurement. 29 3/4" bl. length. It is indeed, a beautiful "old" rifle having a model 71-type Mauser action.
They are shooting quite well at about 1,750fps using 16.5gr. SR4759. I might try that one on a deer next season.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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JohnK
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #323384 - 17/01/19 05:13 PM

I was recently out chasing a few pig. I didn't see any but I did manage a couple of foxes with the Lee Speed.

A couple of photos.





--------------------
JohnK


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Louis
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: JohnK]
      #323387 - 17/01/19 08:53 PM

Superb photos, John; thank you for posting.
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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Daryl_S
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Louis]
      #323399 - 18/01/19 07:27 AM

Beautiful rifle. So classy.
I guess it's rather obvious that the old .303 will kill a fox if you hit him right. 215gr.?

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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JohnK
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Daryl_S]
      #323402 - 18/01/19 10:20 AM

Quote:

Beautiful rifle. So classy.
I guess it's rather obvious that the old .303 will kill a fox if you hit him right. 215gr.?




Yes it sure seems to work OK and it was a 215 gn Woodleigh projectile.

--------------------
JohnK


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JohnK
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Louis]
      #323403 - 18/01/19 10:22 AM

Quote:

Superb photos, John; thank you for posting.
Louis




Thanks Louis.

--------------------
JohnK


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Ripp
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: JohnK]
      #323424 - 19/01/19 01:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Beautiful rifle. So classy.
I guess it's rather obvious that the old .303 will kill a fox if you hit him right. 215gr.?




Yes it sure seems to work OK and it was a 215 gn Woodleigh projectile.




WOW, surprised that did it..

Agree with Louis..great photos..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: JohnK]
      #323482 - 20/01/19 03:37 AM

Quote:

I was recently out chasing a few pig. I didn't see any but I did manage a couple of foxes with the Lee Speed.

A couple of photos.








Good job.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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TexasJohn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: NitroX]
      #323540 - 21/01/19 02:42 AM

JohnK,
What a beautiful Lee Speed! I would appreciate it if you would post some more photos of it!

TexasJohn

--------------------
John

"In the Texas Oilfield, everything that does not kill me today, gets another chance tomorrow."


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JohnK
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: TexasJohn]
      #323580 - 21/01/19 08:43 PM

JohnK,
What a beautiful Lee Speed! I would appreciate it if you would post some more photos of it!

TexasJohn

--------------------
John

"In the Texas Oilfield, everything that does not kill me today, gets another chance tomorrow."

Thanks. A couple of photos below. I reckon I have posted before so I hope people don't get bored.











--------------------
JohnK


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TexasJohn
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: JohnK]
      #323590 - 22/01/19 01:57 AM

Quote: Thanks. A couple of photos below. I reckon I have posted before so I hope people don't get bored.


I never tire of looking at nice rifles. She has great lines!

Thanks.
John

--------------------
John

"In the Texas Oilfield, everything that does not kill me today, gets another chance tomorrow."


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Sarg
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: TexasJohn]
      #323604 - 22/01/19 05:16 AM

Very nice & well done on it's use !

I just got my C&H .303 Speeder & mounted a no Gunsmithing mount on it so I can use a scope if I take her hunting !

--------------------
No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country.

- General George S. Patton


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Daryl_S
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Sarg]
      #323605 - 22/01/19 06:03 AM

So nice, so special!

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Juglansregia
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: JohnK]
      #323737 - 24/01/19 09:36 AM

JohnK, those two foxes look amazing, and with the rifle there quietly in the background makes for truly magnificent photos.

Tony did a very nice job on that wood set, and the rest of the rifle. Wish he was still working. I can remember getting that wood like it was yesterday, even though I've milled several hundred trees since. It's great that you use the rifle in the field.

I've spent most of this month moving blanks out of the way of a bastard of a fire around 20000Ha size. Still not nearly done. Getting a bit tired and sore from it and I'll admit to occasionally wondering if the hard work and 10-20+ year lag time is really worth it all. Especially when young, force dried blanks are so commonly used. JohnK, I reckon your snaps provide me the answer to that.


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JohnK
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Re: Hunting with the 303, please report [Re: Juglansregia]
      #323853 - 26/01/19 03:02 PM

Quote:

JohnK, those two foxes look amazing, and with the rifle there quietly in the background makes for truly magnificent photos.

Tony did a very nice job on that wood set, and the rest of the rifle. Wish he was still working. I can remember getting that wood like it was yesterday, even though I've milled several hundred trees since. It's great that you use the rifle in the field.

I've spent most of this month moving blanks out of the way of a bastard of a fire around 20000Ha size. Still not nearly done. Getting a bit tired and sore from it and I'll admit to occasionally wondering if the hard work and 10-20+ year lag time is really worth it all. Especially when young, force dried blanks are so commonly used. JohnK, I reckon your snaps provide me the answer to that.




Hey mate, Tony is a real craftsman. It is a shame he retired.
Glad you like the photos. I do like dablying with a camera.

There is nothing like a piece of lovely timber in a rifle.

--------------------
JohnK


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