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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive

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degoins
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: lancaster]
      #353809 - 28/05/21 01:23 AM

Perfection in a Lee Speed!!

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93x64mm
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: degoins]
      #353815 - 28/05/21 10:13 AM

I bet there will be some brisk bidding on these ones, especially the 375 2 1/2"
Degoins nailed it - some very fine pieces of kit there!


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lancaster
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: 93x64mm]
      #357335 - 11/10/21 05:01 PM

there is a 8x50R Mannlicher Lee Speed in auction that in general would fit into my safe but I think its a little bit to high for 700 euro with the basic military style stock













https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=14520022

I would prefer a real hunting stock with checkering, at least for this money

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: lancaster]
      #358578 - 26/11/21 05:55 AM

there is a 303 sporter, I suspect british made, in auction now https://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/7444639/#





on the barrel marked with "Proven and Sighted for the Mark VII High Velocitiy Cartridge"

they have BSA in the description but this is maybe a guess. anyway, never heard of such a barrel marking before. will the mark VII cartridge give adate when this build happen?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Marrakai
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: lancaster]
      #358586 - 26/11/21 09:54 AM

Fore-wood has cut-out for clip-loading bridge (Rifle No.1 Mk.II or III), but action and bolt are Lee Speed or Mark 1?

If the stock is not correct, maybe other parts are assembled from mis-matched time-line as well...

Mark.VII ammunition introduced around 1910.

Early Lee sporters are very good things IMHO, have several myself, but prefer complete replacement of dog-leg buttstock with a higher comb to put the shooter's eye behind the sights. Significantly reduces perceived recoil as well.
Cheek-weld, not chin-weld.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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AlanD
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: Marrakai]
      #358655 - 28/11/21 01:35 PM

You can just make out BSA on the butt socket if you zoom in on the photo on the auction site.

Regards

AlanD


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lancaster
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: AlanD]
      #358660 - 28/11/21 04:40 PM

mean this little thing?


you see only what you know!

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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lancaster
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: lancaster]
      #361475 - 03/02/22 09:58 PM

exotic lee enfield sporter for sale here, wonder which way it comes
https://www.gebrauchtwaffen-spezialist.de/Langwaffen-oxid/Enfield-England-Mod-Jagd-MK-II.html






was the 270/303 a genuine australian wildcat once?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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yumastepside
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: lancaster]
      #361477 - 03/02/22 10:21 PM

The 303-25 and 303-270 were once very popular here...my first P14 was in 303-270

Roger

--------------------
If you live for a thousand years, you still only have one life, don't waste it.


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93x64mm
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: lancaster]
      #361478 - 03/02/22 10:27 PM

Quote:

exotic lee enfield sporter for sale here, wonder which way it comes
https://www.gebrauchtwaffen-spezialist.de/Langwaffen-oxid/Enfield-England-Mod-Jagd-MK-II.html

was the 270/303 a genuine australian wildcat once?



It most certainly was Lancaster!
There were quite a few .22 calibre ones (including full length versions), 6mm or .243/303, .25/303. the . 270/303 which you have there. These were all the rage up until the late 60's or early 70's when imports from England (Parker Hale, BSA etc) & America (Winchester, Remington etc) became very popular & these literally just disappeared. I have heard of a .35/303 & even a .375/303, but can't recall seeing these calibres back when I was a young fella!
From memory Super & Riverbrand Cartridge Companies used to make loaded rounds.
You have a fairly rare bird there mate, I haven't seen or heard of anyone having or reloading one in years!


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: 93x64mm]
      #361479 - 03/02/22 11:09 PM

Quote:

.25/303


You have a fairly rare bird there mate, I haven't seen or heard of anyone having or reloading one in years!




I note the elaborate labelling on the factory Norma .270/303 boxes.

I was thinking about buying a .25/303 last week ....

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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260rem
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: NitroX]
      #361504 - 04/02/22 01:21 PM

I think the 303-25 was the most popular way back when, most of the country didn't have big game so it was varmint and roo shooting for the majority of people.
The 303-25 was flat shooting and low recoil and suited the vast majority of game.


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lancaster
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: 93x64mm]
      #361510 - 04/02/22 08:13 PM


There were quite a few .22 calibre ones (including full length versions), 6mm or .243/303, .25/303. the . 270/303 which you have there. These were all the rage up until the late 60's or early 70's when imports from England (Parker Hale, BSA etc) & America (Winchester, Remington etc) became very popular & these literally just disappeared. I have heard of a .35/303 & even a .375/303, but can't recall seeing these calibres back when I was a young fella!
From memory Super & Riverbrand Cartridge Companies used to make loaded rounds.
You have a fairly rare bird there mate, I haven't seen or heard of anyone having or reloading one in years!





remarkable, when such things are discussed here its sounds like such rifles standing half forgotten in every third shed in australia but it seems they were allways rare

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: lancaster]
      #361511 - 04/02/22 08:24 PM

.303's were found in lots of farm sheds.

These semi wildcats somewhat common.

The .22/303s would have died when the .222 arrived. Edited to add - and .22 Hornet.

The .25/303 with the .243.

The .270/303 with the .270.

As a guess popular period was the 1950s to early 60s.

All of these, the .222,vthe .243 and .270 were very popular. But the .22 RF and 12g accounts for most Aussie firearms.

I seem to remember the .303 was banned from potentially rebelous Aussie civilians hands at some time? Why? And how did that work?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (05/02/22 08:35 PM)


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260rem
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: NitroX]
      #361512 - 04/02/22 09:23 PM

22lr and 12ga are definitely the traditional farm guns, I never saw much else growing up other than a .222 or 17rem with the serious fox shooters.
People thought I was a bit crazy when I bought a 6.5x55 as nobody saw the point in something that big.
Even the local red deer all fell too the 222/223, with probably the 22/250 being the biggest round you saw.
But everyone had a 22lr and a 12ga, that might be why I'm still so fond of them.


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lancaster
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: 260rem]
      #361515 - 05/02/22 02:20 AM

nothing wrong with 22 lr and 12 ga

I have a historical interest in hunting guns of the post war years. the times were not sooo much better than before the war and cheap military rifles see a lot of use still in the 1950s, 60s.
was believing before the 303 was very common than in australia. the lee enfield was probably the common hunting rifle of the chaps in the northern territory for hunting crocodile or water buffs.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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DarylS
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: lancaster]
      #361519 - 05/02/22 06:15 AM

In US magazines or books back in the 60's I think, there was some talk of the Australian wildcats on the .303 case. Wildcats as in .25/303 and .27/303. I have in my meager collection and have no idea where I got it from, a .27/303 stamped case.
I naturally assumed these were for deer, goats, brumby's and camels.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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260rem
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: lancaster]
      #361543 - 05/02/22 03:32 PM

Quote:

nothing wrong with 22 lr and 12 ga

I have a historical interest in hunting guns of the post war years. the times were not sooo much better than before the war and cheap military rifles see a lot of use still in the 1950s, 60s.
was believing before the 303 was very common than in australia. the lee enfield was probably the common hunting rifle of the chaps in the northern territory for hunting crocodile or water buffs.




The 303 was definitely a territory favourite for hunting pigs buff and scrub bullls.
But apparently the 25/20 was a very very popular buffalo hunting calibre with the professionals.
They used to ride after them on horseback and shoot them one handed in the head as they rode past.
But the 303 saw, a lot of use on many animals in Australia and was probably the most popular range rifle.
The wildcats were a way to sell flatter shooting rounds on by far the most abundant rifle action we have ever had in this country.
Most of those got sold to the well to do city hunters as the country folk used to use the standard 303 with cheap ex military ammunition, they used to file the tip off of them like the original dumdum round.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: 260rem]
      #361553 - 05/02/22 08:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

nothing wrong with 22 lr and 12 ga

I have a historical interest in hunting guns of the post war years. the times were not sooo much better than before the war and cheap military rifles see a lot of use still in the 1950s, 60s.
was believing before the 303 was very common than in australia. the lee enfield was probably the common hunting rifle of the chaps in the northern territory for hunting crocodile or water buffs.




The 303 was definitely a territory favourite for hunting pigs buff and scrub bullls.
But apparently the 25/20 was a very very popular buffalo hunting calibre with the professionals.
They used to ride after them on horseback and shoot them one handed in the head as they rode past.
But the 303 saw, a lot of use on many animals in Australia and was probably the most popular range rifle.
The wildcats were a way to sell flatter shooting rounds on by far the most abundant rifle action we have ever had in this country.
Most of those got sold to the well to do city hunters as the country folk used to use the standard 303 with cheap ex military ammunition, they used to file the tip off of them like the original dumdum round.





.25/20? Or more likely the .44/40 common in many lever rifles in auctions in recent times from those years. And elsewhere in cattle Australia. Accounts of mounted buffalo shooters using the .44/40. Maybe other lever cartridges.

For the .25/20 in common use or any use on buffalo I would want to see it in evidence in writing from a reference from the time.

.303s were the National Rifle Association target rifles before changing to the 7.62.

I believe lots of SMLE .303s were in use all over Australia. Often cut down rifles to a half stock. Feral pigs and board hunting, donkeys, horses, deer etc. Used a lot in NZ as well.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (05/02/22 08:03 PM)


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260rem
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: NitroX]
      #361555 - 05/02/22 08:39 PM

I only know about that from a bloke I used to know back in Darwin, he wanted me to make a new hammer for his grandfathers old 25/20.
I went around to check it out and while having a beer I asked his grandfather why he had a 25/20 in the territory?
That's when he told me it was his old buff culling gun from when he used to hunt them for money as a young man.
Apparently he and most of the other Skinners used to use them as it was so easy to handle one handed on horse back.
I asked him why not a pistol and he said that they liked to stick the muzzle right up against their head and could not do that with a, pistol.

I wish I had more information then that but that's what I was told.

He did say it was his father's gun and he used to hunt them like that too so there must be some historical information about it. I've no doubt the 303 became the gun of choice after the 1st world war.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: 260rem]
      #361557 - 05/02/22 09:08 PM

Quote:

22lr and 12ga are definitely the traditional farm guns, I never saw much else growing up other than a .222 or 17rem with the serious fox shooters.
People thought I was a bit crazy when I bought a 6.5x55 as nobody saw the point in something that big.
Even the local red deer all fell too the 222/223, with probably the 22/250 being the biggest round you saw.
But everyone had a 22lr and a 12ga, that might be why I'm still so fond of them.




Lancaster mentioned rifles found in every third farm shed.

Funny. My neighbour found a SMLE No 1 Mk III full wood .303 IN HIS FARM SHED! Found circa 1980 ? He has about four sheds. We had only two large sheds so lucked out. Actually about five but two clusters built on ...

Finding an unknown SMLE in a shed. What a find! Probably stashed there after WW1 or WW2. And forgotten. During the World Wars the newcomer ten penny poms probably here for a few years didn't trust the citizens with German names who might be third or fourth generation Australians. In WW2 firearms were certainly confiscated from "Germans" by the foreigner poms. My grandfather had to hand ALL his .22s and shotguns in. A farmer. One shotgun they thought was unregistered. So they broke it and hid it. A .303 like this may well have been hidden away during WW2 and forgotten. However I know a sheep property which once misplaced a tractor!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (05/02/22 09:11 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: 260rem]
      #361558 - 05/02/22 09:16 PM

Quote:

I only know about that from a bloke I used to know back in Darwin, he wanted me to make a new hammer for his grandfathers old 25/20.
I went around to check it out and while having a beer I asked his grandfather why he had a 25/20 in the territory?
That's when he told me it was his old buff culling gun from when he used to hunt them for money as a young man.
Apparently he and most of the other Skinners used to use them as it was so easy to handle one handed on horse back.
I asked him why not a pistol and he said that they liked to stick the muzzle right up against their head and could not do that with a, pistol.

I wish I had more information then that but that's what I was told.

He did say it was his father's gun and he used to hunt them like that too so there must be some historical information about it. I've no doubt the 303 became the gun of choice after the 1st world war.




Fair enough. The reasoning makes sense.

Articles do mention horsed buffalo hunters using heavier calibre levers, but the close brain shots might make sense with a .25.

There were a fair number of lever action .25/20s at auctions as well over the years. I considered buying one once.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: NitroX]
      #361559 - 05/02/22 09:22 PM

Interesting. I have sometimes thought about authoring and compiling a book on hunting the water buffalo. With guest writers writing some chapters. Where and when they came. Early history and historical hunting. The buffalo hide industry shooting days. More modern times. Current times. Thecsafari undustry. Rifles and cartridges. Buffalo around the world. Wild in India, Sri Lanka, Asia. Feral in Austrslia, South America.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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260rem
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: NitroX]
      #361562 - 05/02/22 10:15 PM

Actually this all got me thinking about it a bit, and something sort of clicked in me.
I used to love talking to all the old pro shooters back home when I was a kid, and one thing sort of stood out.
They weren't rich men by any streach, most lived out of their saddle bags and had to get by the best they could. So it makes sense thinking about it, the early buff Skinners were usually roo Skinners that saw a chance at a bigger pay day.
There were never that many buff in Australia until around the 2nd world war so a buff hunter back then was usually a roo shooter or dingo trapper most of the year and only switched to buffalo when the opportunity presented itself.

So if you spent even 80% of the time shooting roos or dingoes then a 25/20 was perfect. But if you needed to shoot some buff and all you owned was the one rifle and it was a 25/20 then you probably had to figure out a way to work with what you had.
That's the only reason I could think of to go chasing down buff to point blank range on horseback, because you had to get that close to actually kill it.

Now the blokes in the cities or towns and land owners might be able to buy something bigger like a 303 or one of it wildcats along with a shotgun and pea rifle, but if you made your living off of other people's land on horse back, then you really had to make do with one gun that would do it all for you.

There's some interesting history like that, I remember my grandfather telling me stories about being a rabbit trapper during the depression, he always said he had this funny 22 magnum rifle that was more accurate with 22lr.
That didn't make much sense to me as I knew you could not shoot 22lr in a 22mag as they are different sized bullets.
But he said he used to put in the big rounds when he would see a fox as they were too dear for rabbits and it was good to have more power for the fox as the skins were worth a week's pay.

It wasn't until reading an article a few, years ago that I finally heard about the 22 extra long.
A predecessor of the 22mag and finally that story made sense, he just assumed that the 22mag was the sane as the 22 extra long he had all those years ago.
But since the 50's he only ever owned two guns, a VG Bentley SxS 12ga and a Slazenger model 12 22lr that he bought from smith's sports store in Sydney after his best ever wool sales.
Those were the only new guns he had ever bought and the last ones he ever owned, but they did right by him for over 50 years.

There's only one gun I've owned longer then 5 years and that's grandpa's old shotgun.
How spoiled are we these days.


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DoubleD
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Re: Lee Speed at Auction [Re: 260rem]
      #361571 - 06/02/22 02:44 AM

How early is the Lee Speed? Is it based on the LE action or SMLE action?

I have a Martini Sporting rifle sold by Rawbone, proofs and marking indicate it is 1890's gun and it is marked, "for .303 Ammunition" It is also mark as using Rifleite powder. (is there a modern equivalant?)

It chambers a .303 British cartridge and will blow the head right off if fired. Bore slugs 304 major (groove) diameter. It does not use a .311 bullet.

When the Brits first started working this cartridge they were working with the Swiss Rubin cartridge which used .303 diameter bullets at the time.

Hawk .303 diameter 180 Bullets work just fine in this rifle.

I was wondering if Lee Speed went back as far the early 1890's?

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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