Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please?

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive

Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)
Nailcreek
.300 member


Reged: 13/08/08
Posts: 150
Loc: Saukville, WI, USA
Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please?
      #220040 - 23/11/12 06:14 AM

After following the forum for a few years, I'd like to try my hand at building a Lee Speed facsimile.

I've a couple of SMLEs which have been "bubba'd", so I think they'd work as a baseline. I'd welcome some suggestions or thoughts from the great denizens of the board however :-).

1. I'd like to keep the caliber as issued, 303. Any suggestions on how to tell the condition of the bore? One is was used as a grenade launcher, but the rifling still looks good. The other is a standard 1916 rifle.

2. Can the charger guides be cut/filed off without harming the strength of the receiver?

3. I think the front and rear sights are fit on and then pinned. Can the pins be driven out and the sights pushed forward off the barrel? I'd like to replace the issued sights with express sights.

4. Is anyone making stock wood that might work as a starting point?

5. How were the rifles finished? High gloss blue or something less?

Thoughts? Has anyone done something similar?

Thanks,

Kerry Brunner
Saukville, WI
nailcreek@hotmail.com

--------------------
Veni, Vedici, Veggie ... I came, I saw, I had a salad.

Edited by Nailcreek (23/11/12 01:37 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Old_Glass
.300 member


Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 113
Loc: BC, Canada
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: Nailcreek]
      #220105 - 24/11/12 03:47 AM

There are others who could help more than me, but since no one has answered your post, here goes.

There were some very nice sporters built on the Charger Loading Lee Enfield (CLLE) and Short Magazine Lee Enfield (SMLE) actions, but most of the "Lee Speeds" we see were built on Lee Enfield Carbine (LEC) or Lee Enfield MkI/MkI* or Lee Metford barrelled actions. These are the way to go if you don't want the charger bridge.

Since you want to use .303, your best bet IMO would be to find a pre-98 rifle in Canada and have it shipped to you. There SHOULD be no problem getting it across the border if you arm yourself with the BATF letter beforehand.

There are not many such rifles around with bores in a good enough condition for your project though. You could try the major gun parts dealers in the US, as some of them have had new or excellent barrels in the past.

The barrel from an SMLE will thread into the earlier Lee Enfield actions, but the barrel from a No.4 Lee Enfield will not.

You'll notice that most of the Lee Speed sporters have the earlier shape of Nock's Form with a second, higher "step". To me these are more attractive and suitable for such a project. It won't be easy to find one with VG+ rifling however.

Another option would be a new SMLE "H" or heavy barrel from Australia, but this has the Nock's Form for the SMLE for which is was made.

Another option is reboring a worn out barrel. This way you could preserve the original barrel with its matching serial numbers, date and configuration of Nock's Form etc.

I just bought a mismatching 1897 Lee Enfield MkI* made at Sparbrook for less than $50. Matching, but sporterized examples up here can often be had for $75-$200 depending on bore and overall condition.

Many of these butchered "Long Lees" or "Long Toms" as they are sometimes called, have the cut-down remains of their military forends in a good enough condition that they can be easily reworked into a sporter configuration. The quality of the wood was excellent, and the metal to wood fit was also almost of commercial quality, so you save yourself a lot of trouble this way.

If you've studied the photos, you will have noticed that the lower end "Lee Speeds" or commercial sporters used military pattern butts with or without checkering added, so that is another option. If the butt has been sanded or worn down too far to match the original brass butt plate you can either reduce it to match or replace with something else that looks right for that vintage of rifle.

Sights, engraving, bluing etc. you can choose to suite your taste and budget. Have fun!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
darwinmauser
.300 member


Reged: 07/05/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Darwin NT
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: Nailcreek]
      #220156 - 24/11/12 08:49 PM

Quote:

After following the forum for a few years, I'd like to try my hand at building a Lee Speed facsimile.

I've a couple of SMLEs which have been "bubba'd", so I think they'd work as a baseline. I'd welcome some suggestions or thoughts from the great denizens of the board however :-).

1. I'd like to keep the caliber as issued, 303. Any suggestions on how to tell the condition of the bore? One is was used as a grenade launcher, but the rifling still looks good. The other is a standard 1916 rifle.

2. Can the charger guides be cut/filed off without harming the strength of the receiver?

3. I think the front and rear sights are fit on and then pinned. Can the pins be driven out and the sights pushed forward off the barrel? I'd like to replace the issued sights with express sights.

4. Is anyone making stock wood that might work as a starting point?

5. How were the rifles finished? High gloss blue or something less?

Thoughts? Has anyone done something similar?

Thanks,

Kerry Brunner
Saukville, WI
nailcreek@hotmail.com




1. The best way to check the condition of the bore is to shoot a few groups with it, you'll soon know if it's any good.

2. The charger guide is shrink riveted on, just carefully drill out the rivets and remove the bridge, you'll probably want to fill the holes ,I'd thread them and make a screw to fit flush with the existing metal or if your any good with a tig welder you could weld them up.

3. yes the original sights on the #1 mk3 were pinned into position , just drift them out in the normal manner, the front sight has a slot milled under it, you'll find it when the sight comes off.

4. Boyds make a stock you could use, they're available for not a lot of money. If you want to use open sights the comb might be a bit high, but that's what belt sanders were invented for.

5. Two words "Rust Blue"

Yep I'm building one in 375 at the moment, so far I have a barrelled action ,next step is a stock from boyds . My barrel is a bit heavier than the original Lee speed barrel but being a 375 I'm inclined to leave it that way to tame the recoil a bit.

cheers
Pete


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nailcreek
.300 member


Reged: 13/08/08
Posts: 150
Loc: Saukville, WI, USA
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: darwinmauser]
      #220182 - 25/11/12 04:59 AM

Old ... thanks for the reply. Any suggestions on where to look in Canada for a LE Mk.1?

Pete ... any pictures you could share on how you drilled out the rivets? I'd also be interested in seeing your progress on the 375.

Thanks!

--------------------
Veni, Vedici, Veggie ... I came, I saw, I had a salad.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
darwinmauser
.300 member


Reged: 07/05/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Darwin NT
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: Nailcreek]
      #220200 - 25/11/12 02:08 PM

Quote:

Old ... thanks for the reply. Any suggestions on where to look in Canada for a LE Mk.1?

Pete ... any pictures you could share on how you drilled out the rivets? I'd also be interested in seeing your progress on the 375.

Thanks!





http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums.yuku.com/topic/33004#.ULIOXIaOHfI

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=19949&page=2&highlight=charger+bridge

No photo's from me but maybe this will help. To drill the rivets find the centre of the rivet and centre punch, use a drill bit a fraction smaller than the rivet and take out as little metal as possible to expose the rivet shaft. use a pin punch to knock out the remains of the rivet ensuring the action has adequate support so that you don't bend it.( you could also drill the rivet all the way through if your dead centre of the shaft but then you would have to assume the rivet is dead straight and you know what assumptions lead to) If you can get it off without damaging anything you can sell the bridge on ebay. My 375 is built on an original Lee Speed action ,there were quite a few imported here before federation at the turn of the last century,unfortunately they were not the sporting rifle type ,they were mainly in the military configuration.

cheers
Pete

Edited by darwinmauser (25/11/12 11:28 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
MarinePMI
.275 member


Reged: 21/04/08
Posts: 92
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: darwinmauser]
      #221021 - 06/12/12 11:12 AM

BTW, Boyds is now offering walnut sporter furniture for the Enfields. These might make a suitable basis for a Lee Speed'ish type rifle...

--------------------
MarinePMI


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nailcreek
.300 member


Reged: 13/08/08
Posts: 150
Loc: Saukville, WI, USA
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: MarinePMI]
      #222722 - 02/01/13 09:18 AM

Found a sporterized 1906 SMLE Mk.I*** this week. No charger bridge (at first glance, I thought it was a Lee Metford). No pitting and the bore looks pretty good after being scrubbed a bit. An interesting rifle, it has the issue rear sight, with windage adjustment, but it seems like the front sight has been modified somehow. The rear volley sight was removed and the forestock shows no sign of the front volley sight.

Suggestions on where to find Lee Speed type front and rear express sight combination? I'll likely have the current sights removed and perhaps put up for sale. I did look at the Boyd stocks and will be putting in an order shortly.

More to come ...

--------------------
Veni, Vedici, Veggie ... I came, I saw, I had a salad.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
darwinmauser
.300 member


Reged: 07/05/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Darwin NT
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: Nailcreek]
      #222750 - 02/01/13 10:07 PM


Am MLE Mk1*** will do fine. The sights that you desire have not been made for some time so if you find a set it would be one of those one in a lifetime events , Sarco have folding leaf express type sights for very reasonable prices, have a look under Mauser Mk10.

http://www.sarcoinc.com/mauser.html#5

Other than that NECG have a good range of custom sights, it all depends on how much you want to spend. The other alternative is ebay or similar auction sites, you never know what will turn up , you just have to be patient.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nailcreek
.300 member


Reged: 13/08/08
Posts: 150
Loc: Saukville, WI, USA
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: Nailcreek]
      #222801 - 03/01/13 12:34 PM

Picked up this weekend ... 1906 SMLE Mk.I***, mismatched bolt, but in pretty good shape.






--------------------
Veni, Vedici, Veggie ... I came, I saw, I had a salad.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nailcreek
.300 member


Reged: 13/08/08
Posts: 150
Loc: Saukville, WI, USA
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: Nailcreek]
      #223505 - 13/01/13 06:04 AM

Here's the parts I've gathered so far ...

Boyd's stock set in walnut
Cutoff from Numrich
Express rear sight from Sarco (one standing leaf and two folding)

--------------------
Veni, Vedici, Veggie ... I came, I saw, I had a salad.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
C_Davidson
.224 member


Reged: 31/12/11
Posts: 36
Loc: USA
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: Nailcreek]
      #223582 - 14/01/13 10:38 AM

I've a Lee Speed project in the works. It's on the back burner now as I've moved a Mannlicher-Shoenauer project to the front burner. I'll be getting my stock from Australia. In the US, Great American Gunstocks has the patterns, or did have once, for Lee sporter stocks. They aren't a cataloged item. You might give them a call, as they don't respond to email well. The charger bridge can be removed from a SMLE and TIGed to fill the rivet holes. A No4 Barrel will interchange with the No1 barrel, it will be 180 degrees out of time, however and the extractor slot will be on the wrong side, and the flat on the bottom. However, the No4 barrel could be copied and threaded, allowing the extractor slot to be cut when appropriate. A No4 contour would be more appropriate to a .375 bore. Even if going with 303, I think I'd rebarrel just to get a sporting chamber, and not an oversized military chamber. I haven't found a source, or good information on correct sling swivel eyes. There's a lot to consider when trying to do a replica.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nailcreek
.300 member


Reged: 13/08/08
Posts: 150
Loc: Saukville, WI, USA
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: C_Davidson]
      #223601 - 14/01/13 02:25 PM

Not having the real thing to compare to, the closest thing I think I've found is:

http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/Gun_Services/item_info.asp?Brand_id=4722&ST=Classic Swivel Stud w/ Machine screw

It would take a bit of file work, but it might be close?

--------------------
Veni, Vedici, Veggie ... I came, I saw, I had a salad.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Caprivi
.375 member


Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: Nailcreek]
      #223603 - 14/01/13 03:01 PM

There is a picture on Steve's site (404 restoration) of them making a proper swivel

http://bertramandco.com/index.html



--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

Edited by Caprivi (14/01/13 03:04 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nailcreek
.300 member


Reged: 13/08/08
Posts: 150
Loc: Saukville, WI, USA
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: Nailcreek]
      #223963 - 20/01/13 02:34 PM

Update ...

I've collected most of the parts so far, now working on stock wood. I'm reworking the buttstock profile. The Boyd's stock wood isn't bad, without much grain. I was a little disappointed as the screw hole wasn't drilled on center and not quite long enough for the bolt to fit into the receiver.





--------------------
Veni, Vedici, Veggie ... I came, I saw, I had a salad.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: Nailcreek]
      #223964 - 20/01/13 02:53 PM

I wish I had time to fill you in on making a Lee Speed/BSA sporter & I will try at a later date, I have a heap of BSA & a few Lee Speed commercial actions body's on hand that will need a home shortly as I have too many .

On that stock, the hole is off centre so you can have a cheek piece !

Here are a few I had made to finish up a couple & I have another 3 Lee Speeds on there way .



This stock maker has since passed away I'm sad to say !!

And one I started earlier, which is still not done.







Edited by Sarg (20/01/13 03:43 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rgg_7
.275 member


Reged: 22/10/07
Posts: 56
Loc: Canada
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: Sarg]
      #223986 - 21/01/13 01:39 AM

Nailcreek ...you could reshape the cheekpiece to the Holland and Holland pattern like the bottom stock in Sarg's post. The off centre hole might present an issue if you're using a trap door metal butt plate. If you're using a recoil pad it won't matter. Solid "red" English pad like a Pachmayr would do the job. Ron

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nailcreek
.300 member


Reged: 13/08/08
Posts: 150
Loc: Saukville, WI, USA
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: rgg_7]
      #223987 - 21/01/13 01:48 AM

Thanks all for the really helpful comments. It's not easy trying to sort this out only via photos on a computer monitor!

While the trapdoor would be nice, and consistent with the Lee Enfield, I'm not stuck on it. Any suggestions on what the recoil pad or lack of was used on the Lee Speed?

I'm also trying to sort out the front sight ... was the original similar to the stock SMLE, which didn't appear ramped?

--------------------
Veni, Vedici, Veggie ... I came, I saw, I had a salad.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
darwinmauser
.300 member


Reged: 07/05/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Darwin NT
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: Nailcreek]
      #224094 - 22/01/13 10:35 AM


The reason the bolt hole is short is to do with the variations between the various models, the butt is supposed to fit anything from an MLE to the #4, better to be a bit short for your stock bolt than to be the other way around, you can always take wood away but putting it back is a problem.
You need to find some alkanet root for your stock finish, alkanet root was used by the British gun trade for years to bring out the grain on walnut, you can find it at hobby shops where it's used for coloring in soap making. I found my supply via google ,just type in Alkanet root powder and you should find a source not to far from home ,mine was only 3000 miles away.

cheers
Pete


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nailcreek
.300 member


Reged: 13/08/08
Posts: 150
Loc: Saukville, WI, USA
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: darwinmauser]
      #224171 - 23/01/13 02:29 PM

Hi Pete ... thanks for the reference for the alkanet root ... how was it used as a stain? Was the oil finish tung oil or something else? Thanks!

--------------------
Veni, Vedici, Veggie ... I came, I saw, I had a salad.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
darwinmauser
.300 member


Reged: 07/05/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Darwin NT
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: Nailcreek]
      #224285 - 25/01/13 04:49 PM

I mix the alkanet root powder with boiled linseed oil and gum turpentine 50/50 in a small screw top jar, about a cup full is enough for several stocks ,rub it in with a lint free cloth as many times as you see fit, generally 3 or 4 coats should do it, as you can see in the link it's red but the color mellows out when you apply the linseed oil, you'll be surprised how much figure it will bring out .

http://customgunandrifle.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18&Itemid=17

I'm buggered if I know what the other stuff he uses is ,I use boiled linseed oil that you can get in any hardware store. Be aware that what is sold as turpentine these days is not, you need Gum Turpentine, that is the real old fashioned stuff distilled from pine trees. When you have finished reshaping and sanding your stock, paint on or rub on the alkanet root mix a few times till your happy with the color, then start applying the BLO, for the first few coats cut it 50/50 with turps until the wood won't swallow anymore and then go to straight BLO.You can wet sand it if you like with 1200 wet & dry using BLO for the lube but be careful of the edges,eventually you will get to a point where it's all but finished, then you dip your index finger into the oil dab it on the stock and rub it in with your hand, the friction will create heat which makes the oil go off. When you're happy with it which should take a month or so of daily applying and polishing, then you can cut it down to once a month for a year and then once a year forever after

http://www.antiquerestorers.com/Articles/SAL/rub.htm

cheers
Pete

Ps, that's not the only way to do it, that's my way of doing it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nailcreek
.300 member


Reged: 13/08/08
Posts: 150
Loc: Saukville, WI, USA
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: Caprivi]
      #225456 - 18/02/13 01:42 AM

In the continuing search for parts, I think this might offer a good alternative for the swivel parts.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/910/2/SWIVEL-POST

--------------------
Veni, Vedici, Veggie ... I came, I saw, I had a salad.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
darwinmauser
.300 member


Reged: 07/05/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Darwin NT
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: Nailcreek]
      #225510 - 18/02/13 08:17 PM

Quote:

In the continuing search for parts, I think this might offer a good alternative for the swivel parts.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/910/2/SWIVEL-POST





Well...the price is right and when they're blued they'll look the part.

cheers
Pete


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nailcreek
.300 member


Reged: 13/08/08
Posts: 150
Loc: Saukville, WI, USA
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: Nailcreek]
      #225874 - 24/02/13 08:28 AM

Well, I was very fortunate to come across the following rifle. A Lee Metford sporter, made by BSA in 303. It's a great base for a Lee Speed, and hence I'm going to get the SMLE Mk.1*** back and get it on the market ... It will offer someone a great opportunity to restore an early SMLE.





--------------------
Veni, Vedici, Veggie ... I came, I saw, I had a salad.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: Nailcreek]
      #225956 - 25/02/13 08:35 PM

Now your talking, great find & very good start for the project, has the Carbine type bolt as well !

looks like a Japanese - Santa Barbara mag ?

Is the left side machined for the lobbing sight ?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Nailcreek
.300 member


Reged: 13/08/08
Posts: 150
Loc: Saukville, WI, USA
Re: Building a Lee Speed-ish Rifle - Help Please? [Re: Nailcreek]
      #226001 - 26/02/13 01:10 PM

I'm not sure about the magazine, but the rifle is apparently a BSA commercial sporter and never drilled for a scope, or was set up for a volley sight. I'm really looking forward to getting it in.

--------------------
Veni, Vedici, Veggie ... I came, I saw, I had a salad.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)



Extra information
1 registered and 26 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  NitroX 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 27362

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved