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old_LEESPEED
.224 member

Reged: 09/12/10
Posts: 20
Loc: SINBIN

Help with early Lee Speed Patent.
#173322 - 18/12/10 09:59 AM

Hi, I need some advice on a Lee Speed Patent.

Can any of you help me determine exactly what it is and how much it may be worth?

The mag cut off is missing and the original front sights have been changed at some point.
I would like to find these two parts if poss.

Serial number is 3 digits all over the gun.
Theres a letter and two numbers under the bolt head on the receiver.

Thanks in advance for any help you may bring.

edit. my pictures wont show. Ill try later.

Edited by old_LEESPEED (18/12/10 10:01 AM)

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#173343 - 18/12/10 02:06 PM

First off, Welcome to NitroExpress!!

Get those photos up for us to see, remember that they need to be on a photo hosting server and that you don't up-load images from your computer directly to this website.

I look forward to seeing your rifle!
What is the caliber?

Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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old_LEESPEED
.224 member

Reged: 09/12/10
Posts: 20
Loc: SINBIN

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: tinker]
#173351 - 18/12/10 03:52 PM

Sorry about that, ok here are some pictures.
edit-tried to resize these spiffy and add a few more.

Says "G26"

Found an old .303 shell wrapped in a receipt from 1955 in the but stock.

The receipt from Capitol Motors GM in Vernon BC dated Jan 9th 1955.

There was also some strike anywhere matches wrapped in an old advertisment.

There was a string with a brass cylinder at the end, I would assume a cleaning device.

A photo I found on the net, this rifle resembles the bottom one.

Let me know if you need other photos. Thanks as always.

Edited by CptCurl (21/12/10 12:05 AM)

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old_LEESPEED
.224 member

Reged: 09/12/10
Posts: 20
Loc: SINBIN

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: tinker]
#173352 - 18/12/10 04:06 PM

Hi and thank you. Its .303 british. Has a brass butt plate a brass through pin above the trigger and what looks like a brass or bronze front sight leafe.

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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3524
Loc: Colorado

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#173372 - 19/12/10 03:26 AM

Looks like it is barreled by Westley Richards.
Is there a name of any retailer on the barrel?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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old_LEESPEED
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Posts: 20
Loc: SINBIN

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: Huvius]
#173375 - 19/12/10 04:09 AM

Hi, thanks for replying, no there is no names on the barrel, what makes you think its a Westley Richards?

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jc5
.300 member

Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast, USA

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#173378 - 19/12/10 04:59 AM

Hi! Welcome to Nitro Express!

Looks like it might have a BSA piled arms trademark on the top of the barrel knox form. Does it? Maybe this is what Huvius is talking about...it could be mistaken for the Westley Richards triangle.
What is the barrel length?
What does the front sight look like?
Is there a "V" in a circle anywhere on the barrel?
Is there anything stamped on the top-right-rear part of the action, where the bolt slides in?
What are the numbers on the bolt? Do they match the numbers on the action or barrel?

From the pics, it looks like a military pattern, commercial Lee Enfield (not sure exactly which model until we get more data), made by Birmingham Small Arms Company sometime between 1897 and 1905, and then later sporterized by its owner. With more info, we'll find the answers to your questions and narrow down the date range.

If you would be willing to fill out my Lee Speed owner's survey, I will send you a PM. Every bit of data I can gather puts me a step closer to working out a reliable method of dating these commercial rifles.

Thanks!

--------------------
Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.

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rgg_7
.275 member

Reged: 22/10/07
Posts: 56
Loc: Canada

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: jc5]
#173383 - 19/12/10 05:42 AM

A little more info is required to confirm it's a commerical BSA action. A picture of the left side of the action is need as well as the top of the receiver/barrel. How long is the barrel?

I believe you have a commerical Lee Speed by BSA from the butt socket markings on the right side as well as the 3 crossed rifles on the barrel knox. The "F.C." stamp on the barrel is one I have not seen before. The barrel is stamped "nitro proved" (?) although faint which indicates prewar1.

Lots of modifications....front site change that you mentioned and I see a Winchester elavator sight added...dovetail most likely cut in barrel for this...stock looks to have been replaced with a military one. These parts are tough to find and pricey....I just leave the rifle and enjoy shooting it if the headspace and bore are good.

Ron

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Huvius
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Posts: 3524
Loc: Colorado

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: jc5]
#173384 - 19/12/10 05:48 AM

Quote:

Hi! Welcome to Nitro Express!

Looks like it might have a BSA piled arms trademark on the top of the barrel knox form. Does it? Maybe this is what Huvius is talking about...it could be mistaken for the Westley Richards triangle.

Yes, that is what I was referring to. Didn't think of the stacked rifles BSA insignia.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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jc5
.300 member

Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast, USA

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: rgg_7]
#173389 - 19/12/10 07:30 AM

Quote:

A little more info is required to confirm it's a commerical BSA action.

It is definitely a commercial BSA action, as I noted above. There is no question about that---the markings confirm it.

It certainly could have shipped with an original military stock. Not every commercial Lee Speed was a sporter. The fore-end was cut down by an owner---nothing ever shipped from BSA like that. The butt stock looks unusual. It doesn't match a typical military or sporting pattern...could we see a few more photos? Maybe a photo of the entire rifle, from the side?

Additional data from you will help us confirm exactly what its original configuration was, and narrow the date range.

..

Quote:

The mag cut off is missing and the original front sights have been changed at some point.
I would like to find these two parts if poss.

The mag cut off is not hard to find. Finding a front sight will depend on what kind was originally on there... some are common, while others are rare. When we figure out more about the rifle, we will know what kind of front sight it originally shipped with.

--------------------
Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.

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jc5
.300 member

Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast, USA

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: jc5]
#173394 - 19/12/10 08:13 AM

Thanks for the additional photos.

What is the barrel length, and what is the overall length?

Are there 5 or 7 grooves in the rifling?

--------------------
Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.

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old_LEESPEED
.224 member

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Posts: 20
Loc: SINBIN

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: jc5]
#173395 - 19/12/10 08:24 AM

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the help, if theres a place on the net where the members know speeds, this would have to be the place.
sve
This gun sat in a closet since the 60s. There was literally 1/2 inch of dust inside the trigger guard, the barrel was stuffed with dust bunnies. it was black and dirty everywhere.

Heres what I have learnt.

Was purchased new in the UK by great grand dad.
Gun was brought over to Canada from UK by great grand dad in late 1919.
Was given to grand dad in the 1930s.
Was accidentally bumped and the port side of the butstock got slightly burnt in a camp fire in mid 30s.
Stock and fore end are original and have never been changed.
The front sight is original, it's the BACK site that has been replaced (my bad sorry). Apparently the original sight is in one of the boxes containing grand dads stuff, as my Mom said she has seen "gun parts" she thinks may be a sight of some form. (cant confirm as of yet)

What is the barrel length?
-Measured from the mating line where it says "Trade Mark" it is exactly 19 inches to the end of barrel.

What does the front sight look like?
Sorry, its original, its the back sight that was changed, maybe im dyslexic.

Is there a "V" in a circle anywhere on the barrel?
Yes there is, starboard side by the two sets of "625"

Is there anything stamped on the top-right-rear part of the action, where the bolt slides in?
Yes there is, its marked "G25" and what mabe a . and perhaps something else but cant see it verry good.
What are the numbers on the bolt? Do they match the numbers on the action or barrel?
625, times two one on back of bolt hadle and another underside of bolt. Yes they match the barrel numbers.

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old_LEESPEED
.224 member

Reged: 09/12/10
Posts: 20
Loc: SINBIN

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#173396 - 19/12/10 08:29 AM

I will try and get some better full view side shots of it when my digital cam gets back from wifes hockey turney.

Overall leangth is - 39 inches.

It looks like there is 5 rifleing grooves. They look nice and sharp.

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4seventy
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Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#173397 - 19/12/10 08:55 AM

Welcome to the forum!

In picture #5 which shows the rear sight, directly under the sight are the words "Nitro Proved" followed by crossed sword proofmarks. These look like an X, which appears to have tiny letters stamped around it. There is another similar mark just after the first one, and another again on the action.
Can you make out what the letters are and also tell us in what position the letters are, in relation to the X, ie to the left, right, above or below the X?
Thanks

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old_LEESPEED
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Reged: 09/12/10
Posts: 20
Loc: SINBIN

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: 4seventy]
#173400 - 19/12/10 09:17 AM

Quote:

Welcome to the forum!
In picture #5 which shows the rear sight, directly under the sight are the words "Nitro Proved" followed by crossed sword proofmarks. These look like an X, which appears to have tiny letters stamped around it. There is another similar mark just after the first one, and another again on the action.
Can you make out what the letters are and also tell us in what position the letters are, in relation to the X, ie to the left, right, above or below the X?
Thanks

That sir is an excellent question. I was not aware there were letters around them x's.

When I look at these little proof marks with my naked eye, I feel as though my head may explode. I went and rifled though my wifes "sewing room" looking for the magnifying glass, of course I couldnt locate them. If I cant locate them I may have to wait for her. LOL!!!!

I think that a macro photo of this in hi res then cleaned up and paired out to just show the proof marks may be a good idea. Again I have to wait on her as she has the camera, bloody hockey players.

Added to things to do, so I'll add more regarding this as it comes in.

Thanks "-)

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375BSA
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Posts: 17
Loc: California, USA

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#173406 - 19/12/10 09:48 AM

"The receipt from Capitol Motors GM in Vernon BC dated Jan 9th 1955." The receipt appears unrelated to the rifle, except that it was found in the butt trap. There are 4 items on line one and 1 item on line two. Can you make out what the items are? I'm asking partly because your caption makes it look like it might be the original receipt for the sale of the gun. It also might give a clue to something grand dad might have been up to shortly before he put it in storage. How's the bore look?

--------------------
Working with jc5 on the Lee Speed research project. Very interested in contacting former BSA gunsmiths and other employees.
"Recoil is irrelevant when there's a tiger in your howdah!"

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jc5
.300 member

Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast, USA

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#173407 - 19/12/10 10:09 AM

Thanks for posting the additional photos and information.

Was your great-grandad in the service? Was he an officer?

Quote:

Was accidentally bumped and the port side of the butstock got slightly burnt in a camp fire in mid 30s.
Stock and fore end are original and have never been changed.

The camp fire would explain why the shape of the butt stock is unusual. You can see burn marks at just that point. As for the front-end, if you family history says it was not altered, then perhaps there was an owner before your great grand-dad who chopped it down, OR maybe the camp fire damaged it and it had to be lopped off. BSA never shipped a commercial fore-end with that length and shape.

You wrote:

Quote:

A photo I found on the net, this rifle resembles the bottom one.

The bottom one in that photo has a 24 1/2 inch barrel, so it cannot be that one, unless the barrel was cut down at some point. The barrel was not replaced, because the numbers match the rest, and no old numbers were struck out. The top two rifles on that catalogue page have 19 inch barrels, so they are candidates, although they have wood checkering that I cannot see in your photos. The No.3 pattern lacks checkering but has a 21 inch barrel. Yours could be a No.3 Pattern that was ordered with a custom length barrel, which was possible. I suppose everyone has figured out by now that it was not a service pattern Long Lee that was cut down, because there's no provision for volley sight. But the others features make it clear that it wasn't a factory sporter. The Military Pattern (i.e., Trade pattern) Officer's Carbine is the best candidate.

Eager to see the entire side view, from Left and Right.
..

You originally asked about its value... The magazine and the original backsight (if you find it) are together probably worth nearly as much as the rest of the rifle. Save that brass oiler and the cartridge (that is amazing)...when they are cleaned up, they might provide more clues.

--------------------
Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.

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old_LEESPEED
.224 member

Reged: 09/12/10
Posts: 20
Loc: SINBIN

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: 375BSA]
#173409 - 19/12/10 12:43 PM

Quote:

"The receipt from Capitol Motors GM in Vernon BC dated Jan 9th 1955." The receipt appears unrelated to the rifle, except that it was found in the butt trap. There are 4 items on line one and 1 item on line two. Can you make out what the items are? I'm asking partly because your caption makes it look like it might be the original receipt for the sale of the gun. It also might give a clue to something grand dad might have been up to shortly before he put it in storage. How's the bore look?

Hi, Unfortunatley it's not the receipt for the gun, although I wont rule that out from being "somewhere", sorry if it sounded like I was trying to imply that it was such. I dont think GM ever sold guns though and you dont think they sod them either. The reciept is for brackets. 4 at $3.00 and one at $2.50. $14.50 and $.73 for what looks like tax. It was "Charged" and signed by the Purchaser John Lauriner upside down, the way it would be facing you at the parts counter. No one here knows this bloke, so it was probably someone who was having work done by grandpa, as he did mechanic work back in the time of this reciept.

The bore looks brand new, nice rifling grooves very pronounced right up to the action. I'll have it headspaced and checked/reported on up the road and before I fire it.

Im loving this. Thanks for chipping in.

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old_LEESPEED
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Reged: 09/12/10
Posts: 20
Loc: SINBIN

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#173410 - 19/12/10 01:09 PM

Hi jc5

Thanks for all the info. You and your friends here really know your stuff. I appreciate all your collective help.

Anything past grampa is a bit fuzzy in the family tree. It's made me realise sadly how little I know about my British kin. I hope to get that info in detail from uncles/aunts who are still alive. From thier info on GreatGrand dad I will have a better chance of tracking his early life, perhaps his fathers ect ect.

"Was your great-grandad in the service? Was he an officer?"
Short answer is yes for service, dont know what branch or rank he held. Yet.

"The camp fire would explain why the shape of the butt stock is unusual. You can see burn marks at just that point. As for the front-end, if you family history says it was not altered, then perhaps there was an owner before your great grand-dad who chopped it down, OR maybe the camp fire damaged it and it had to be lopped off. BSA never shipped a commercial fore-end with that length and shape."

When you first said this, I strongly dissagreed that the forend was somehow chopped or cut down. But sir, you appear to be right. Heres how I have come to that conclusion and realization, (thanks btw)

All exposed metal on the barrel and action are very polished almost a bright nikel color, very shiny silvery. But where the stock has been covering the bottom of the barrel, it is very dark.

So I thought, how could there of been a forend shortening but show shiny metal all around the exposed barrel. The underside dark part lined up with the forend perfectly. So, I intictivly thought that the foreend could not have been cut down. But...........

When I look at the underside of the gun under a 400 watt metal halide shop light, I can very very very faintly see where there was another extension to the forend going up another 3 inches. It is super faint, but you can see it when you look, I will post pics of wat I am taking about later on when I get control of the camera again. I will take a few side snaps with the iphone camera in the mean time. Thanks again.

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jc5
.300 member

Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast, USA

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#173412 - 19/12/10 02:50 PM

I'm glad you're enjoying this! Me too! After all, talking about old guns is supposed to be FUN, right? Otherwise, what are we all doing here?

I've replied to your PM, with contact info so I can send you my rifle survey. I appreciate you sharing your info. Every bit of data is very helpful.

It's great that this old rifle will give you the chance to learn more about your family tree. I've always said, if only these old guns could talk...

Yours is (and was) a nice rifle. Well made and well travelled. It also emerged at a very interesting time in the history of rifle development--close on the advent of the cordite era, but before the '98 Mauser came to rule the roost. It was a time of Long Lees, Krags, Mannlichers, and Winchester '95s. Smart minds and demanding customers were still "working things out." Transitional eras are like border towns... always full of strange characters... you don't know where they've been, where they're going, or who is following them... Yeah, you can quote me on that !

I suppose that accounts for my fascination with rifle design in the twenty years before the Great War.

--------------------
Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.

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old_LEESPEED
.224 member

Reged: 09/12/10
Posts: 20
Loc: SINBIN

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: 4seventy]
#173415 - 19/12/10 06:44 PM

Quote:

Welcome to the forum!
In picture #5 which shows the rear sight, directly under the sight are the words "Nitro Proved" followed by crossed sword proofmarks. These look like an X, which appears to have tiny letters stamped around it. There is another similar mark just after the first one, and another again on the action.
Can you make out what the letters are and also tell us in what position the letters are, in relation to the X, ie to the left, right, above or below the X?
Thanks

Hi,This looks to be crossed swords, handles of the swords to the left side of the X
On the left of the X between the handles there may be a crown.
On the right of the X there may be a 4 or an A

I am not sure what that glob is between the first two X's

Still looking for the mag glass.

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4seventy
Sponsor

Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#173416 - 19/12/10 07:26 PM

Hi old LEESPEED,

You are probably right about the crown on the left side of the X, and the right side could well be a "V".

If those are the marks, (according to proof info that I have on hand here) it should mean that your rifle was proofed prior to 1904.

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rgg_7
.275 member

Reged: 22/10/07
Posts: 56
Loc: Canada

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: 4seventy]
#173421 - 20/12/10 12:22 AM

Knowing the gun's hidtory is a big plus. I generally record this and keep in a file as its proves "provenence".

Just a few more questions as I think were are closing in on what you have;

1. Confirm barrel length. You can do this by inserting the bolt; putting a cleaning rod down the barrel to contact the bolt face; mark with a piece of masking tape; withdrawn and record the measurement.
2. Show us a clear picture of the front sight.
3. Show us a cleat picture of both swivels.
4. Are there any stampings on the brass butt plate.
5. You magazine has a front loop on it. Does you triggerguard have any evidence of a loop?

The rifle is a commerical BSA....just need to determine which model so we can point you in the right direction for parts/restoration.

Hope this helps,

Ron

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jc5
.300 member

Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast, USA

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: rgg_7]
#173430 - 20/12/10 03:46 AM

Quote:

Knowing the gun's hidtory is a big plus. I generally record this and keep in a file as its proves "provenence".

I agree. Type out everything you know about the history of the rifle in your family...if you can find out out the rank and the unit of your great greatdad, his address at the time, you can add that later. We may yet learn where he purchased it, either from your family or from my research into retail records. Anyway, type everything you know and save a hardcopy, with the idea that this goes with the rifle whenever you sell it or pass it on. This rifle may still be shooting for another hundred years, and guys on the gun forums in 2110 shouldn't have to puzzle over it!

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old_LEESPEED
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Reged: 09/12/10
Posts: 20
Loc: SINBIN

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: rgg_7]
#173473 - 20/12/10 07:08 PM

.

Edited by old_LEESPEED (21/12/10 06:33 AM)

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old_LEESPEED
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Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#173475 - 20/12/10 07:21 PM

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old_LEESPEED
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Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#173514 - 21/12/10 06:28 AM

Edited by CptCurl (21/12/10 12:05 AM)

THanks Capt, but what am I thanking you for?

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Brithunter
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Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 184
Loc: Lincolnshire, England

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#173525 - 21/12/10 11:46 AM

Gentlemen sorry to inform you but if that Bimingham private View mark is correct, and as it's stamped on the barrel there is no real reason to doubt it, then the rifle was not proofed in that condition until after 1950 when Birmingham first used the leters either side of the crossed lances. The private View came into use first in 1921 and it had a single letter at the top between the crossed lances.

If you can give a better close up photo of the view mark then we can tell when it was proofed.

Edit:-

This is the Birminham Private view mark:-

The confusion is that this particular mark does not apper on the list that the proof house supplied.

Edited by CptCurl (22/12/10 12:13 AM)

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jc5
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Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast, USA

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: Brithunter]
#173526 - 21/12/10 12:04 PM

Brithunter--respectfully, I think you're mistaken. It looks to me like the mark on the barrel is the older one, not the newer (date-coded) one that began in July 1921, and was restarted in 1950. The one on this barrel is the private Birmingham mark that goes back to 1813. There's nothing I can see on the barrel to indicate that it was proofed (or re-proofed) in the 1950s.

I agree with 4seventy in his post above, that this barrel was originally proofed before 1904.

The pic you posted with the B/C is from 1952. But is it found on the original poster's rifle? If it is, then you're right, it indicates a proof in 1952, but it would be a reproof, not the original proof (which was pre-1904). However, old_LEESPEED didn't say that the rifle went back to England in the 1950s. That's the only way it would have got a 1952 proof. I'm guessing that the pic you posted is from someone else's rifle?

--------------------
Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.

Edited by jc5 (21/12/10 12:58 PM)

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4seventy
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Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: Brithunter]
#173533 - 21/12/10 12:57 PM

Quote:

Gentlemen sorry to inform you but if that Bimingham private View mark is correct, and as it's stamped on the barrel there is no real reason to doubt it, then the rifle was not proofed in that condition until after 1950 when Birmingham first used the leters either side of the crossed lances. The private View came into use first in 1921 and it had a single letter at the top between the crossed lances.

Brithunter,
I also think you are mistaken, and I think you are confusing the "private view mark" with the "Inspection mark".
These are entirely different proof marks.
The Inspection mark was not used after 1904, and the private view mark was introduced in 1921.

From what I can make of the photos showing the marks on the barrel of this particular Lee Speed rifle, I feel that the crossed sword mark is an inspection mark, not a private view mark.

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CptCurl
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Posts: 5271
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Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#173538 - 21/12/10 02:10 PM

Quote:

Edited by CptCurl (21/12/10 12:05 AM)

THanks Capt, but what am I thanking you for?

Transferred the photos to the NE.com server and edited the links. No change to the message. If you look around you will see that message often!

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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Brithunter
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Posts: 184
Loc: Lincolnshire, England

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: 4seventy]
#173557 - 21/12/10 07:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Gentlemen sorry to inform you but if that Bimingham private View mark is correct, and as it's stamped on the barrel there is no real reason to doubt it, then the rifle was not proofed in that condition until after 1950 when Birmingham first used the leters either side of the crossed lances. The private View came into use first in 1921 and it had a single letter at the top between the crossed lances.

Brithunter,
I also think you are mistaken, and I think you are confusing the "private view mark" with the "Inspection mark".
These are entirely different proof marks.
The Inspection mark was not used after 1904, and the private view mark was introduced in 1921.

From what I can make of the photos showing the marks on the barrel of this particular Lee Speed rifle, I feel that the crossed sword mark is an inspection mark, not a private view mark.

Taht's OK I don't mind being wrong. I did ask for better photos of the mark.

One other point is that it seems serial number don't mean much on these civilian models as BSA did not seem to have a logical sequence of numbers. Or that's what I was told when I asked about mine BSA sporting rifle however I must thank you all as due to this I looked through my photos and found this:-

It's the bolt knob of my BSA and it would seem it's an example of the first years Private View Mark unless I am mistaken.

If so then this Wm Powell retailed example was proofed in 1921-22.

Or is that again just an Inspection mark? The barrel will tell us nothing as it was replaced just prior to my acquiring the rifle and is a 39 dated milsurp barrel so the proof marks are 1980's ones on the barrel.

--------------------
Don't let the bastards grind you down!

Edited by CptCurl (22/12/10 12:14 AM)

Post Extras:

4seventy
Sponsor

Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: Brithunter]
#173559 - 21/12/10 08:17 PM

Hi Brithunter,
I reckon the mark on your bolt knob is an inspection mark.

The photo is showing the mark upside down, and what appears to be an "A" at the top is really a "V" when viewed right way up. The (inspection mark) crown is visible also.

With the first version of the private view mark, the letter indicating year of proofing was stamped between the "cross" of the swords/scepters.
The letter on your bolt knob is in the wrong place for it to be the private view mark, but is in the correct spot for the inspection mark.

Post Extras:

old_LEESPEED
.224 member

Reged: 09/12/10
Posts: 20
Loc: SINBIN

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: 4seventy]
#173560 - 21/12/10 09:14 PM

Hey guys,

I am working on better pictures of the marks. A few more proof marks have also appeared in other locations. Would I be wrong assuming that the three sets of swords and crowns, twon on the barrel and one on the reciever are all the same? if so then I can draw a complete picture using different parts of the three proofs.

Some very interesting info has come to light regarding the wood on this firearm.

My forend is 13 1/2 inches long, measured from the top end for end. Does someone know the measurements for a similar "sporting" type of forend?

LOt of things to post about this old rifle, some of it may make your hair catch on fire. WEll ok, maybe not catch like totally on fire, but it should make your eybrows raise.

Happy Christmas

Post Extras:

old_LEESPEED
.224 member

Reged: 09/12/10
Posts: 20
Loc: SINBIN

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: CptCurl]
#173561 - 21/12/10 09:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Edited by CptCurl (21/12/10 12:05 AM)

THanks Capt, but what am I thanking you for?

Transferred the photos to the NE.com server and edited the links. No change to the message. If you look around you will see that message often!

Curl

Hi, Captain,<-------

isnt that like taking my photos, taking them out of my control, placing them into your own folder on this server, taking away my chance to edit, change, replace or delete them?

Ive seen files moved offsite before because of bandwidth sucking pigs, but never files moved onto a server. Doing that just increases load on server and consumes bandwidth, where there was no need to make the "move"

I kindly request that you remove them from the place you moved them too.

Happy Christmas,,,,,,,,,,,,lol

Post Extras:

CptCurl
.450 member

Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5271
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#173566 - 22/12/10 12:10 AM

old_LEESPEED,

First let me give you my warm welcome to the forums. We value the contributions of each member, and your participation will enhance the valuable body of knowledge you already have commented upon.

It is the policy of NitroExpress.com to preserve, as best as possible, the priceless information exchanged here so in years to come the discussions held today will be a repository of reference data. Preservation of photos is equally important; maybe more so, than preservation of text. Some years from now this thread will be of no value if what formerly were links to photos then appear as a red "x". One of my meager contributions to our group is to do what I explained: to archive photos for posterity. Sorry if my earlier explanation was insufficient, but I didn't want to inject an off-topic discussion to this interesting thread.

Now back to the pre-1904 Birmingham proof marks. Here is a macro photo of the two Birmingham stamps used before the changes of 1904. This is not a photo from the Lee Speed rifle at issue, but is presented to facilitate discussion.

Here the lower mark is the Birmingham inspection mark used during the period 1812-1904. It has the "crown" and "V".

Above that is the Birmingham final black powder proof mark for the same period. Its devices, in counter-clockwise order from top, are "crown", "B", "P", "C".

In 1904 proof for nitro powders was standardized. Prior to that time there were various conventions, with special rules applied to the .303 British. Thus you see the words "Nitro Proved" stamped on your barrel, in addition to these stamps.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

Edited by CptCurl (22/12/10 12:17 AM)

Post Extras:

Brithunter
.300 member

Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 184
Loc: Lincolnshire, England

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: CptCurl]
#173662 - 23/12/10 09:10 AM

I will have to pull mine out and take a careful look at that bolt mark with the lupe. That scan was done many years ago before I had a digital camera.

--------------------
Don't let the bastards grind you down!

Post Extras:

CptCurl
.450 member

Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5271
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: Brithunter]
#173672 - 23/12/10 10:40 AM

I think 4seventy is spot-on. It's the inspection mark, but depicted upside down.

It's hard to fool 4seventy.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

Post Extras:

old_LEESPEED
.224 member

Reged: 09/12/10
Posts: 20
Loc: SINBIN

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#173789 - 25/12/10 06:14 AM

Good news and Bad news, what do I start with? Hhhhhhahahahaa.

OK, good first.

Seems dads grandfather was a horse soldier in the UK(???), upon coming to Canada, he homesteaded and started what was to be a large cattle ranch. He employed (they actually lived at the ranch in shacks) Native men as ranchhands. These Indian men were skilled horsemen and were outfitted by great granddad with everything they would need to successfully admin the day to day runnings of the ranch.
This included "rifles". Lee Speed rifles to be exact. So long story short is that as my Mom has been digging around in the items that are stored from granddad, and low and behold there are 8 more firearms she dug out of a old army duffle bag. She says she knew they were around and it was my excitment regarding the first old rifle I got that got her digging to get the rest of them out. There are four (4) other Lee Speds in that duffle bag, a couple old shotguns and what appears to be a couple .22s

Goinout to the farm the first week of Jan to collect them. Thats the good news.

Now the bad news, can you guess what the bad news is? I bet you know don't you.

THe bad news is that I wont be back here again to post in this thread. Thanks to all who have helped out in the ident of this first rifle, thanks to several other online sources I have the complete data from this gun.

You should all thank CaptCurl for his contribution to ths thread, who knows what it could of become without his "intervention" You should all send him a warm thank you.

I have already sent a warm thank you to CaptCurl in the form of a webpage showing who he is, and explaining what he does here. I am possitive it will rank nice and high in search terms at google in say about 30-45 days.

old speed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,out.

Post Extras:

tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#173792 - 25/12/10 08:10 AM

Old LS-

Quote:

I have already sent a warm thank you to CaptCurl in the form of a webpage showing who he is, and explaining what he does here. I am possitive it will rank nice and high in search terms at google in say about 30-45 days.

Curl knows how much I appreciate his contributions to this site!
It's good you have the good news to share, I wonder why you won't be able to return to this site?
Is this a permanent arrangement?
What is this website you speak of?

Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Rowdy
.275 member

Reged: 12/09/04
Posts: 53
Loc: Victoria. Australia

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: tinker]
#173878 - 26/12/10 03:04 PM

Well there ya go - it is strange sometimes how people react to events - I personally think any picture I post on the internet has gone into the public domain for ever.
I noticed the last two pictures the capt edited did not show up on my screen - maybe he thought they had been appropriated to some private server?

Post Extras:

Old_Glass
.300 member

Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 113
Loc: BC, Canada

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#174122 - 26/01/11 06:03 AM

Quote:

Good news and Bad news, what do I start with? Hhhhhhahahahaa.

OK, good first.

Seems dads grandfather was a horse soldier in the UK(???), upon coming to Canada, he homesteaded and started what was to be a large cattle ranch. He employed (they actually lived at the ranch in shacks) Native men as ranchhands. These Indian men were skilled horsemen and were outfitted by great granddad with everything they would need to successfully admin the day to day runnings of the ranch.
This included "rifles". Lee Speed rifles to be exact. So long story short is that as my Mom has been digging around in the items that are stored from granddad, and low and behold there are 8 more firearms she dug out of a old army duffle bag. She says she knew they were around and it was my excitment regarding the first old rifle I got that got her digging to get the rest of them out. There are four (4) other Lee Speds in that duffle bag, a couple old shotguns and what appears to be a couple .22s

Goinout to the farm the first week of Jan to collect them. Thats the good news.

Now the bad news, can you guess what the bad news is? I bet you know don't you.

THe bad news is that I wont be back here again to post in this thread. Thanks to all who have helped out in the ident of this first rifle, thanks to several other online sources I have the complete data from this gun.

You should all thank CaptCurl for his contribution to ths thread, who knows what it could of become without his "intervention" You should all send him a warm thank you.

I have already sent a warm thank you to CaptCurl in the form of a webpage showing who he is, and explaining what he does here. I am possitive it will rank nice and high in search terms at google in say about 30-45 days.

old speed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,out.

I must have missed something...? :-(

Anyway, this was damn interesting and hopefully Old LeeSpeed will dig into his family history and get it down on paper, and not just the history of the rifles. More is lost with every generation that goes by.

My guess is the reciept in the butt trap was just a way of preventing that single round from rattling about.

Jc5 I agree completely about recording the history of rifles and attaching it to them physically. In the butt trap or under the forend. We often hear "buy the gun, not the story", but when the story can be established it adds SO much to the interest and the value. Old LeeSpeed's rifle would just be a tired old Lee, but with the story, a real piece of history. The fact that they were issued to the Indian ranchhands would explain the wear and tear. This is not a statement of prejudice, but it's pretty well established now that maintenance is not a strong point where guns are concerned.

Old LeeSpeed if you're reading this I hope you'll reconsider. Either way, it sounds like you've got an interesting family history and I hope you'll find the time to record it for future generations of your family. You should be able to find out when you Great Grandfather came out to Canada and on what ship, with who etc.

We should know where and who we came from.

'scuse my litle sermon everyone!

Post Extras:

old_LEESPEED
.224 member

Reged: 09/12/10
Posts: 20
Loc: SINBIN

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: Old_Glass]
#174141 - 26/01/11 09:44 AM

Hey, hi. Yes reading this but wont reconsider it.

Very VERY bad ettiquete taking someones pictures and putting them anywhere without first asking. I dont care who thinks what of anthing, I think it was poor judgement and unessasary. It KILLED me off of adding any further pictures of the SIX (6) lee speeds I have.

I am so pissed off about it, I have complained about it on every venue I can find.

I send a e-mail every day, was firstly to POWWEB.com where this site "was" hosted, before some other pissed off individual came around and spanked the forums, and NOWto OZHOST.com, where they moved to.

Its on a cron job, every day at 6 am it pops out another mail, it want stop till my photos are removed. Simple.

I dont know who CURL may think he is, but I assure you he is less than nothing to me. A &&^%* and a #$$@&, whith no clue as to ettiquete. When I get the chance to meet up with him face to face, I'll let him know it full on. Clown.

That said, I assume that he figures he is doing a great service by hijacking peoples pictures, and in some ways he may be, in fact I believe he does not even have a clue as to how his "actions"may piss others off. You sureley pissed me off CURL by not asking first.

As a direct result of your hijacking, you KILLED this thread. You pulled info and a interesting story right out of your users reach.

BTW, the wood on the speed I first posted on, is the original unmodded wood (except for a fix to repair a split from age. The other 5 speeds I have (all serials #s are low as well) have the EXACT same wood on them. They were made like that, not cut down or changed out.

End rant, have a nice day....lol

PS: clueless is what I call someone who takes low res iPhone photos instead of waiting for hi res pictures from a 3k canon camera. Nice work sherlock, hows it working out for you Curl?

Post Extras:

Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#174144 - 26/01/11 10:26 AM

A pity , very interesting rifles & story , in the hands of a VERY "interesting" person !!

It is a great help having the photos stored/held some where other than the posters provider , as when you are doing research back a few years , it is quite frustrating to find red Xs ever where or no link to what ever , if You had done you own research on Old Lee Speeds you would most likly have found no photos , unless some one cached them some where !

No great loss on the fundamental mind set of this poster !!

Who is WAY of base IMO , asks for help , then Pisses on us ???

Post Extras:

old_LEESPEED
.224 member

Reged: 09/12/10
Posts: 20
Loc: SINBIN

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: Sarg]
#174153 - 26/01/11 11:13 AM

I fully understand the red X part of the equasion. Seriously.

I came here not ever being here before. I asked myself (before posting) should I fire these up to one of my servers? or should I just initially have them temporarily placed upon a "free hosting service" so I can feel the boards out, see how it goes, then expand if it went ok and someone here was willing to help me try to pin down exactly what I had. It was I guess lucky for me in a way that my wife had the good camera and was out of town playing hockey, although at the time I was pissed off about posting crappy low res camera phone images. I initially placed them onto one of my servers, but the server is configured not to allow external sites to link directly to my images. So whern I tried to post the images in my first post, the images were blocked. Since I yapped off about the speed, I didnt want to make anyone "wait" as I re configed the server to allow nitroexpress access rights to a folder on a server. Hence the crappy iphone images posted immediatley.

If the Captain would of asked me, if I was opposed to having my images placed into his personal folders here, I would of agreed and asked him to wait for the good camera to get home so I could at least place HI RES photos of the speeds on this thread.

Quote-if You had done you own research on Old Lee Speeds you would most likly have found no photos , unless some one cached them some where !-end quote.

Ummmm, hey, theres this really cool website called GOOGLE.com. You may want to check it sometimes, you'll find countless lee speed images from all over the internet. Hundreds. So I dont buy your comment about not finding any. It just is not factual.

Quote-Who is WAY of base IMO , asks for help , then Pisses on us ??? -end quote.
I asked for help, I didnt ask the Captain to hijack my images, change thier locales and place them in his own special folder. If you think that is pissing on you, then you have a lot of learning to do.
Like, fundamental coutesy, internet ettiquite, asking before taking, having some couth.

Anyhow, a real man in a real gun shop in a real city told me I have the largest private collection of lee speeds in the world. Perhaps largest period.

Case closed, lets move on. Sorry if you think I am pissing on you lads, I'm not, I just think you have to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.

Mods, you can close/lock this thread and delete my account.

Post Extras:

Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#174155 - 26/01/11 11:58 AM

Quote-if You had done you own research on Old Lee Speeds you would most likly have found no photos , unless some one cached them some where !-end quote.

"Ummmm, hey, theres this really cool website called GOOGLE.com. You may want to check it sometimes, you'll find countless lee speed images from all over the internet. Hundreds. So I dont buy your comment about not finding any. It just is not factual."

On this site or one like it , when you are reading a informative tread , on any subject , which may not be found any where else , Fact !

Quote-Who is WAY of base IMO , asks for help , then Pisses on us ??? -end quote.

"I asked for help, I didnt ask the Captain to hijack my images, change thier locales and place them in his own special folder. If you think that is pissing on you, then you have a lot of learning to do.
Like, fundamental coutesy, internet ettiquite, asking before taking, having some couth."

"I am so pissed off about it, I have complained about it on every venue I can find.

I send a e-mail every day, was firstly to POWWEB.com where this site "was" hosted, before some other pissed off individual came around and spanked the forums, and NOWto OZHOST.com, where they moved to.

Its on a cron job, every day at 6 am it pops out another mail, it want stop till my photos are removed. Simple.

I dont know who CURL may think he is, but I assure you he is less than nothing to me. A &&^%* and a #$$@&, whith no clue as to ettiquete. When I get the chance to meet up with him face to face, I'll let him know it full on. Clown."

Enough said on that , have a look at your self !

"Anyhow, a real man in a real gun shop in a real city told me I have the largest private collection of lee speeds in the world. Perhaps largest period."

I might be wrong on this , but I pretty sure Lee Speed/BSA sporters are only found on Earth , so if you had the largest collection in the World that would cover it.

But you are dreaming if you think that is so , Hell I've got 9 , 10 with a LSA Sporter , in parts & disrepair , but still BSA/Lee Speeds & many collectors have far more top grade examples in FINE condition !

So I would say it is a case of good riddance and your account should be deleted , with our thanks !

Post Extras:

old_LEESPEED
.224 member

Reged: 09/12/10
Posts: 20
Loc: SINBIN

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: Sarg]
#174157 - 26/01/11 12:48 PM

Slow poke-

Theres "private collections" and "public collections" ding ding. Do you even know the difference? obviously not. Ding Ding.

And as no one on the Internet that I can find has 6 speeds in one locker, its safe to say, I have the most.

Now slow poke. I'm not talking about your box of parts, and missmatched pieces basterdised from several piles of junk. That dont count. Were talking numbers matching, original speeds.

Oh, and all 6 were purchased from the same maker, the same day and built to the clients specs.

Your "box of parts" are not exactly the lee speeds that anyone really wants are they. Hardly a notable collection. OK< a notable collection of mismatched "pieces" you win. lol

Heres a 1/4 go buy a brain.

While your digging around in your box of mismatched parts and assorted pieces of junk, maybe you can send me the link where I can see these mighty collection you talk about. Ppppfffft.

I eagerly await your link to the mighty speed collections.

ding ding

ps- is that a sheep your hanging onto there?

Post Extras:

NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39242
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: old_LEESPEED]
#174187 - 26/01/11 11:59 PM

Quote:

THe bad news is that I wont be back here again to post in this thread. Thanks to all who have helped out in the ident of this first rifle, thanks to several other online sources I have the complete data from this gun.

You should all thank CaptCurl for his contribution to ths thread, who knows what it could of become without his "intervention" You should all send him a warm thank you.

I have already sent a warm thank you to CaptCurl in the form of a webpage showing who he is, and explaining what he does here. I am possitive it will rank nice and high in search terms at google in say about 30-45 days.

old speed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,out.

I suggest you actually read your membership agreement, terms and conditions etc.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/newuser.php?Cat=0

http://nitroexpresscom.ozhosting.com/files/Guidelines.html

***

Contributions
Members are urged to contribute freely with topics and matters of interest relevant to NitroExpress.com. The forum is intended to be a site for fun and to discuss any interests which interest hunters and shooters. Various forum topics have been provided for members benefit. Additional forums can be added if requested and there is interest.

Photographs, stories, posts, articles and other material loaded or posted onto the NitroExpress.com forum or website become the property of NitroExpress.com and may be used by NitroExpress.com on the NitroExpress.com website, forums, other websites, publications and paraphenalia.

***

And I do thank CptCurl for his contributions to this forum every chance I get. He has put untold hours into these forums purely out of interest.

As for all your whining about not being asked, things being stolen etc etc, well learn to ffffing read what you agree to. It is all in plain English and plain English anyone could understand.

You agreed, and instead of asking politely why or what etc, immediately started throwing abuse and using insulting language. Plus what seems like loaded up some sort of insulting web page on the net attacking an administrator.

No other member has complained about us archiving photos before, and only one other member has ever asked for them to be deleted when he "spat the dummy" too. And the answer then was NO as well. We put a lot of work, especially Curl, into providing an informative website useful for members, for free, to get information, exchange ideas and help each other. Just because a member leaves doesn't mean others won't get benefits from reading and seeing stuff in the future.

How this spat was going to "win" anything for you, I find incredible. Insulting an administrator and carrying on like that, what do think it will achieve?

I will also point out another part of the terms and conditions:

Membership
Members agree that on applying to become members of NitroExpress.com, that they agree and will adhere to the requirements of the Guidelines & Rules.

Membership is open to shooters and hunters but is not limited to these categories. Also to other interested participants, such as outfitters, professional hunters and guides, manufacturers, service providers etc. Membership will also be considered to persons who may not necessarily agree with all or any of the views of hunters and shooters. Reasonable and fair debate is acceptable, but should be conducted with honesty and with due regard to the enjoyment and purposes of NitroExpress.com.

Please treat all participants with respect and be "a good neighbour". Do not use NitroExpress.com to threaten, abuse, insult, stalk or harass other users and members. The forum is a "real-time" forum and as such we do not review postings. If you feel a post is particularly objectionable, please contact us.

Your behaviour on here is unacceptable. Abusive behaviour about an administrator without any cause, and now also against other members whom were just trying to explain the situation to you.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (27/01/11 12:11 AM)

Post Extras:

Old_Glass
.300 member

Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 113
Loc: BC, Canada

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: NitroX]
#174209 - 27/01/11 05:56 AM

If we all step back for a moment and catch our breath, what's the real issue here?

Old LeeSpeed feels his photos were taken without permission.

Others have said "public domain" once you post it on the net.

Do the site Terms of Use say that any photos linked on the site may or will be considered to be "open license" or the property of NitroExpress.com?

Quote:

Please respect copyright and other forms of intellectual property. Users and members whom upload or post material, warrant that any material posted is free from any copyright or liability or that they have the proper consent to do so and accept personal responsibility for all contributions made by them. Material uploaded to the NitroExpress.com site may be used by NitroExpress.com elsewhere on the site.

Now, does including a link to your photos on NitroExpress.com mean that you are "uploading" your photos, when those photos are hosted on another website?

I'm not a lawyer, but I'd say no, it's not the same as uploading your photos to NitroExpress' server. Some websites do offer that; they pay for the bandwidth and if you upload it to their servers, you are giving them the right to use it.

Personally, if I post a photo online somewhere, I know that anyone who wants to can save a copy of it, and then do what they want with it, subject to my legal objections if any of course. That's the reality of the Internet.

It's really annoying when people post threads and then in a few weeks the photos are gone and the whole thread is meaningless, so CaptCurl is trying to do us all a favour by saving the photos, but on the other hand, sometimes people have good reasons for deleting their photos once their questions have been answered.

Mabye for the future it would be good practice to amend the Terms and Conditions to tell users clearly that if you post it or link it here, it will be considered public domain or open license and will be rehosted on the NitorExpress servers for future reference.

And would it not be just common courtesy to ask first?

Now can we bury the hatchet and get back to the rifles?

Edited by Old_Glass (27/01/11 05:57 AM)

Post Extras:

NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39242
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: Old_Glass]
#174234 - 27/01/11 05:04 PM

"Old_Glass" from Canada,

"Old_LeeSpeed" from Canada is currently in the Sinbin.

The terms and conditions are already clear on the matter as previously posted.

The website is free to members. The archive is for members' benefit. Reading the membership terms and conditions is something assumed all members would do when clicking "I agree". As for asking people individually before hand, we already have in the membership agreement.

As for "Old_Leespeed" from Canada, this user already has threatened or claims he is already spamming the two ISPs NE uses. He has threatened an administrator with putting up an assumably libellous web page.

NE takes a very strong attitude against spammers.

A rational response from "old_leespeed" would have been to politely ask the nature of the edits of the photos.

His rude language and behaviour towards Curl and also another member trying to help out, Sarg, show his nature however.

He is in the Sinbin at the moment, without posting rights. Any gentleman would know how to resolve such a situation.

Considering the timing of his forums comments and the hacking of the server was also on the same day or very close. Also the amount of time and resources spent restoring this site, means issues like attacks on NE (cron spamming threats, libel etc) might be met with a short fuse for a while.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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kamilaroi
.400 member

Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: NitroX]
#174246 - 27/01/11 06:37 PM

It may be of use for future posters to electronically "watermark" photos to prevent IP issues.

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Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: kamilaroi]
#174251 - 27/01/11 07:34 PM

May not help for the unstable & insane , like our poster here !

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Old_Glass
.300 member

Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 113
Loc: BC, Canada

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: NitroX]
#174280 - 28/01/11 03:57 AM

Quote:

"Old_Glass" from Canada,

"Old_LeeSpeed" from Canada is currently in the Sinbin.

The terms and conditions are already clear on the matter as previously posted.

The website is free to members. The archive is for members' benefit. Reading the membership terms and conditions is something assumed all members would do when clicking "I agree". As for asking people individually before hand, we already have in the membership agreement.

As for "Old_Leespeed" from Canada, this user already has threatened or claims he is already spamming the two ISPs NE uses. He has threatened an administrator with putting up an assumably libellous web page.

NE takes a very strong attitude against spammers.

A rational response from "old_leespeed" would have been to politely ask the nature of the edits of the photos.

His rude language and behaviour towards Curl and also another member trying to help out, Sarg, show his nature however.

He is in the Sinbin at the moment, without posting rights. Any gentleman would know how to resolve such a situation.

Considering the timing of his forums comments and the hacking of the server was also on the same day or very close. Also the amount of time and resources spent restoring this site, means issues like attacks on NE (cron spamming threats, libel etc) might be met with a short fuse for a while.

NitroX from Australia, we're not just from Canada, we're from the same province of Canada!!

But I'm afraid I don't know anymore about Old LeeSpeed than you do, probably less. I just wanted to hear about his rifles.;-)

The subtext to your comments seems to be that I'm somehow "sticking up for" Old LeeSpeed because he's Canadian. I wish Canadians had that kind of "matey" culture, but we don't. Old leeSpee's fuze seems to be a bit shorter than some, but most of us have a good charge of powder.

Obviously I'm not privy to all that's gone on here, and I'm not defending anyone's intemperate comments.

If you have different info from the "Terms & Conditions of Use" than what I quoted, it would be good to clear that up.

The suggestion to posters to use watermarks is a good one.

Should be quite easy to find out who hacked the server.

You're right, a little "gentlemanliness" goes a long way.

Edited by Old_Glass (28/01/11 04:15 AM)

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39242
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: Old_Glass]
#174336 - 28/01/11 09:20 PM

Old_Glass

I have already posted the necessary paragraphs from the membership agreement. Anyone not happy with the simple membership agreement is free not to participate here.

Photos etc are archived on our server per our option per the terms and conditions. We also may use photographs and material elsewhere on the website, NE publications, etc. No different to ANY and virtually ALL photo hosting sites, facebook, etc. However unlike facebook and similar, we do not sell anything to media, news sites etc as they do. It is only used on this site etc.

Media has sometimes stolen material from NE in the past, eg one of our members had a photo from an elephant hunt stolen from our ezine pages and used on a mainstream media article to try to discredit him. He is a member of Parliament in Australia and when I asked him how he felt about it, he said the publicity was good for him.

However it is very difficult to stop that sort of media activity, legal action being prohibitively expensive and takes too long anyway.

Another example was a website which directly linked the entire Nickudu Files collection without going through the forums pages. I think they were asked to edit this and they did.

***

Lets get back to constructive discussions and enjoying sharing information, photos etc as this site is meant to be.

As was posted in an earlier post, the members knowledge of Lee Speeds here is extensive and a great resource. Thank you to our knowledgeable members for sharing their experience and information.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Rowdy
.275 member

Reged: 12/09/04
Posts: 53
Loc: Victoria. Australia

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: NitroX]
#174638 - 01/02/11 09:41 PM

The internet can be a strange place - but one thing that I soon learnt is that there is always someone out there that has a bigger collection than you.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/Narrewarren/LeeSpeedriflesJ.jpg

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jc5
.300 member

Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast, USA

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: Rowdy]
#174650 - 02/02/11 03:18 AM

What a nice collection!

Rowdy, are those yours?

--------------------
Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.

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mickey
.416 member

Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: Rowdy]
#174706 - 02/02/11 02:25 PM

Rowdy,

I'll bet real American money from a real American Bank in a real American town that someone has over 50 Lee Speeds in a collection.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39242
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: Rowdy]
#174708 - 02/02/11 02:52 PM

Quote:

The internet can be a strange place - but one thing that I soon learnt is that there is always someone out there that has a bigger collection than you.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/Narrewarren/LeeSpeedriflesJ.jpg

Rowdy

Can you tell us something about your rifles. For example what calibres they are in? Any thing else you might like to share? Thanks.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: mickey]
#174716 - 02/02/11 03:49 PM

Mick

Quote:

Rowdy,

I'll bet real American money from a real American Bank in a real American town that someone has over 50 Lee Speeds in a collection.

Where's the sport in that bet?

Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8726
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: tinker]
#174788 - 04/02/11 01:21 AM

looks like evolution http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/Narrewarren/LeeSpeedriflesJ.jpg

great collection btw

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Rowdy
.275 member

Reged: 12/09/04
Posts: 53
Loc: Victoria. Australia

Re: Help with early Lee Speed Patent. [Re: NitroX]
#174998 - 06/02/11 09:13 PM

In reply - I started to collect rifles chambered for .303 many years ago and along the way developed an extra interest in Ross rifles and commercial BSA rifles.
These represent what I have accumulated so far just going to auctions and shows in Melbourne.
The top four are military pattern target rifles - Magazine Lee Metford - Charger loading Lee Metford and Enfield (Territorial Pattern) and an SMLE.
Followed by No. 1 and 2 pattern sporting rifles and a No. 4 pattern carbine.
The last two are No. 1 and 2 pattern carbines (for officers' use) - BSA did not get a contract to
produce the Cavalry carbine but decided to offer two slightly different carbines to the officer class who until the first world war were required to provide their own kit.
For a rifle to qualify it had to use the standard ammunition (.303) and to be sighted to 1000 yards.
Not common here in Australia - I have seen 3 No.1 and one 2 and no more for 20 years.

Edited by CptCurl (09/02/11 11:01 PM)

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