Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: Hahn in Ruh

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Hunting >> Hunting in Europe

Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)
lancaster
.450 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 5112
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Hahn in Ruh
      #216750 - 15/09/12 06:56 AM

"Hahn in Ruh" is an old phrase meaning "to set the hammer back into the half-cock position"
this means end of a hunt
end of the season
end of the hunting in general

I was on Langeoog island in the Wadden sea/ North sea this week and its maybe not out of interest if I show some pics, old and new. up to world war 2 there were no restrictions here about hunting on the beach and the sea. the beach so wide the wave's were going was seen as no-man's-land and anyone could hunt there on ducks, geese and more witout a licence.
one specialty was seal hunting and what I show here was more or less the same for the netherlands, germany and denmark. seal hunting stops in the netherlands 1962, in germany 1973 and in denmark 1977. however there are voices now in denmark for a controlled hunt on seal's again


"of Nimrod's and hobby shooters

In particular, the seaman of those islands have always known and much liked to tell of the seals, and tried with all means to make hunting parties on seal's appetizing. Finally they earned at a hunting trip not just a little. They often have the uninformed and zealous amateur hunters after several hours of "seal hunt" even demanded exorbitant prices. "The hunting of seals is one of the main pleasures of the Nimrod's (passionate hunters) at the bathers. However, the seal hunt was not easy, it required detailed knowledge of the animals and their habits." Still, it was very rare for an inexperienced hunter actually to shot a seal, and many hundreds of shots were fired every summer in vain for the East Frisian Islands, to a single animal that was realy killed. Thus, according to an old report: "This individual seals are usually just as alert as smart and always know the right time hiding before the fatal bullet hit. it happen this often comical misunderstandings, and it has happened more than once that a floating log or agglomerated clusters seaweed, even a peculiarly shaped stone on a sandbar in the distance was mistaken for a seal and serve as a target point for some bullet's before the error is finally cleared up. "

The Stalking

The real seal hunting, as practiced by experienced seal hunters operating was done one of the sandbanks. To an old report: "About half tide the seal hunter isin his boat and now sail to the well known sandbanks where the seal like to bath in the sun. if he spied with his glass the seals he approached silently with his boat to the sandbar far away from the desired game and marched carefully and possible against the wind with his gun on the unsuspecting seals. " "Has he come within a few hundred meters, he try to fool the seal about his presence by passing through deep abdominal crunches while walking his torso up and down. Finally, he lies down quietly and watched for a while the animals ahead. Such a seal hunter has to be seen to describe, it can hardly be describe, he is in an old, multi-colored, patched and stained suit of oilskins. on his head he wears a hood that barely leaves the face free, put the legs in long sea boots or remain completely barefoot.
Especially the "Huxen" (mimicking the movements of the seals) had to be learned. By mimicking the forward movement of the seal on the sand (tightening the legs and moving forward to put away the hands) the hunter now had to sneak within firing range. "A shot in the head alone is deadly. Is the animal injured, but still capable of movement the hunter running quickly and kill it with one stroke of his boat-hook. The slain seal was usually skinned immediatly, a work that an experienced hunter could do quickly. The thick layer of fat was left on the skin and take of at home to cook it to Tran ". Often, however, all efforts were in vain when birds siting on the banks with their warning call and simultaneous escape alert the seals. So the hunt was often unsuccessful.

In hunter circles Juist island with its surrounding sand banks was known for the extremely high animal population of seals. But also from the other islands seal hunting was operated. The number of summer guest on the islands grew from year to year and the seal hunt was, especially for spa guests, a popular recreational sport. Thus, a spa guest wrote 1869: "I managed to hit a seal with a Dreyse needle gun at least at ninety foot step's. in this moment he lowered his head and drove flat on the sea. the seals die almost immediately when hit by a single pellet at the right place "

Exploitation of furs

how important the seal hunt was before, figures show, that 1000 to 1200 seals were shoot between the Ems estuary and Sylt island every year. The fur of the animals was taken by most guest as a trophy at home. Many skins served there as a bedside rug. Sometimes, the animals were also stuffed as a trophy or the skin were tanning. in the mid-19th century sealskins were purchased by the Hanoverian government to make coatings for infantry knapsack. Per coat they paid 12 ½ to 15 pence. Sealskins also came on the market and were made into small bag's (called "Rubben") for chewing tobacco and the like. of an average seal it weas possible to gained about eight liters Tran. However, the liver was cooked and eaten, it should taste like beef liver. "


my special thank to Alfred Schmidt in Emden /Ostfriesland for the text and some of the old pic's
http://www.schmidt-fluke.de/fluke.htm












the sleeping seal hunter


after the hunt: tottrinken - dead drinking


an older scope mount on a M 98 hunting rifle where the scope is located on the side of the action


the seal's of langeoog once


and now


























they have count over 8000 seals between Hamburg and the dutch border this year alone so I think this animal is not realy threatened with extinction. Norway, Sweden and Finland have never stop to hunt seals and iirc Norway also allow tropy hunting for foreigners. hunting there is a little bit different because the seal's have tens of thousends of small rocky island's to hide so they dont lie on large sand banks like plainsgame in east africa stand in the Serengeti.
the hunt on the ice in winter time like its done in sweden and finland seems to me the best way.




the trophy room of a finnish seal hunter photographed last summer on Utö island /Finland






--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (15/09/12 07:01 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ben
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: lancaster]
      #216751 - 15/09/12 07:51 AM

Absolutely fascinating! Those blokes would have a very strict rifle cleaning regime, hunting on the beach!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bakposten
.300 member


Reged: 15/05/12
Posts: 108
Loc: Norway
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: Ben]
      #216753 - 15/09/12 09:57 AM

Me and some friends try to get out to hunt seals some times each year, and we think it`s great fun. But as Lancaster wrote it is a bit different than hunting them on the beach. We usually hunt seals from January through March, the weather is critical for the outcome of the hunt. for the most parts we scout with boats, and try to find them on big enough islands for us to get a shore and then get within shooting distance. Sometimes we try to sit and wait for them to come to known spots the seals frequent, but we prefer scouting from the boat.

It`s allowed too shoot from the boat, but that is extremely difficult. We are required to use a rifle that is minimum a 6,5mm and shoots a 140 grain bullet. Personally I find that ridiculous, I would much prefer a 22-250 with a varmint bullet, much less problems with bullets ricochetting. And we almost always aim for the head, as the skull is like glass. With a body shoot the seal can easily slip back into the water and be gone for good. If you shoot them in the water you have about a 50 percent chance of recovering it, sometimes it floats sometimes it don`t. So it`s not recommended.

The meat tastes ok, but it`s a lot of work to skin it, and a lot of fat to cut a way. But it`s always fun to have on the bbq in the summertime. The fur is extremely warm, and I think it looks great. In a couple of years I hopefully will have shoot enough of them to make me a decent sealskin jacket.

Gun cleaning is extremely important, never ever forget your rifle in the gun case over night after being out on the sea, it will rust... And yes I`ve done that. I now have dedicated "hard work rifle", for all the though jobs, you don`t bring your custom Holland & Holland or your Oberndorf out for this kind of hunting.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: bakposten]
      #216754 - 15/09/12 10:23 AM


Good thread all round.

bakposten

Interetingm thanks for posting.

Stainless guns would come into their own
now that they are more readily available.

I hunt on a marsh / wetlands system that
is slightly salty and agree, it can ruin
guns even when out hunting.

A "hard use" gun is a good idea.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 27901
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: lancaster]
      #216758 - 15/09/12 03:38 PM

Lancaster,

Interesting first paragraph too.

Seal hunting is a very different form of hunting to what we usually read about. Thanks very much for posting.

Obviously if seal populations allow a sustainable managed harvest there is no reason why at the very least sporting hunting of them should not be done.

Like the little "trophy hut" of the Finnish seal hunter too.

By coincidence I am currently reading a crime novel where the lead detective originates from the Frisian Islands.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 27901
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: bakposten]
      #216759 - 15/09/12 03:42 PM

bakposten,

Thanks for your personal insights.

I can well guess the saltwater is a great enemy to the rifle. I think we have all had some rust spots appear when forgetting or neglecting to clean a rifle after use in the rain or moist conditions. I once saw a shotgun, used on a moist day, put into a case, in the vehicle in the sun. It came out completely red on one side. Luckily not mine! Salt would just add to it.

I think a seal hunt on the ice in a Scandinavian winter would be something very different.

Post a photo of your saltwater seal hunting rifle if you can, and describe it. Working rifles are good to see as well. Thanks.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 2792
Loc: Colorado
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: NitroX]
      #216780 - 16/09/12 03:23 AM

A very interesting post.
For some reason, I never really thought of how seals are typically hunted.
Now, I understand why we occasionally see falling blocks used as "seal guns" as they seem to be appropriate for shooting and reloading from a prone position without too much movement.
Curious, do the seals scatter when one is shot or is this mostly a single animal at a time that is encountered?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
SvilleModerator
.400 member


Reged: 23/03/10
Posts: 1189
Loc: Sweden
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: Huvius]
      #216782 - 16/09/12 05:18 AM

This story is very interesting, great pics. /Staffan

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bakposten
.300 member


Reged: 15/05/12
Posts: 108
Loc: Norway
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: Sville]
      #216789 - 16/09/12 07:09 AM

They are mostly appear in groups, for the most part 4-8 animals but sometimes you will find larger groups. I have only encountered single animals when they are in the water, they are not as difficult to get close to, but they are a risk to shot because 50% sink right away when shot. If you shot at one individual in a group the others are gone before the first one hits the ground, so you seldom get a chance to shoot a double. And if you miss your first shot, your chances are blown, and you will have to find a new group of seals. But this is how they behave where I live in Norway, further north it may be different, I`m not sure.

I will try to get some pictures and a description of my "seal rifle" later.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.450 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 5112
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: bakposten]
      #216823 - 16/09/12 07:51 PM

indeed, its an interesting topic and you dont find so much in the net about it. did a little google research yesterday and apart from Eskimo hunting which is a thing for itself pics are rare.

this here is from Denmark in the the 1950s


double guns? maybe
found it on a danish blog about marine mammal's http://www.hvaler.dk/nyheder2008.htm


this pic is remarkable because they have clearly muzzle loader but its named "seal hunting on ice in 1904"



very late for seeing a muzzle loader in action

the story of the seal after the stop of hunting is also very remarkable

again the fact's:
around 1900 the seal was hunted very hard in North and Baltic sea by fisherman because he was a rival for fish. the common seal feed 4-8 kg fish a day, let's say 6 kg and if we make a little calculation for the 8400 seals(ok, some are pups) between Hamburg and Emden on the dutch border they feed 50,4 ton's fish a day and beause they have hunger every da in the year they need 18396 ton's fish in 2012.

the hunting on seal's stop in 1962 Netherland, 1973 Germany, 1977 Denmark



and now it became trilling:
in 1988 a 18000 of 27000 seal's dying in North and Baltic sea on the PD virus which is some kind of Canine distemper.
you know it was a unique catastrophe but - miraculous - in 2002 there are enough seals again for the PD virus 22000 seal's could dying. Btw, dying on the PD virus seems not to be fun for the seal's.
it seems the origin of this was Anholt island in Denmark every time which is located strategic between North and Baltic sea.

In 2007 again dead seals were found on Anholt but the epidemic dont start.

http://www.welt.de/wissenschaft/article974034/Staupe-Epidemie-bei-Seehunden-ausgebrochen.html

the so called conservation organisations claim that the reason for the epidemic is marine pollution and that's maybe part of the problem but is this the core? Because the PD virus was found with Mink's in fur farmings on Anholt in 1988 they claim that fur farming was the core ( very clever) but other scientist say the virus was coming from the seal's into the farm's.
Now such organisation's complain that nobody search for the reason's but why dont they use their donation's for a study?
I understand that tax money is much better for such thing's!
One fact is that saddle back seal's come to Anholt in very hard winter's from the north and they have the PD virus but being immune.


Another idea: I read once that the Rabies disease was very rare in area's were the red fox was hunted hard. 100 year's ago three red fox winter fur's were worth a drilling and you can imagine how they hunt the fox then. Rabies is eradicated now and fur's are worth nothing so mother nature have another epidemic, now canine distemper, if the the fox population become the high.

Could it be that the seal population must reach a certain point before the epidemic breaks out?
Could it be that holding the population under this certain point by hunting managment would be a help. I hear that seal hunting is discussed in Denmark now maybe one of our danish member's know's more.




Sadly, marine pollution seems not to be a problem for the Great Cormorant.
once hard hunted like the seal because he is a rival for fish this bird is now untouchable here. conservation group's claim he need's complete protection.because he is close to extinction.

I may this pics on Usedom Island in the baltic see in july










the flock of commorant's was to large to get it on one pic. They roam the coast on 300-400 meter
and local fisherman told me this are sometime's 5000-6000 bird's.
You can imagine its the darling there
what do they feet? To my understanding you find only school's of juvenile fish so close to the beach
where they found some kind of protection not having into the open sea. Until the commorant is coming.
better dont shoot such a bird if you like to have your gun licence.

Edited by lancaster (16/09/12 11:09 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Daryl_S
.577 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 18061
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: lancaster]
      #216836 - 17/09/12 01:29 AM

Seal shooting, according to W. Greener, Gunnery, 1858, page 404.

"The effectual and instant killing of seals on the ice is an illustration; failing to kill a seal dead, he will, to a certainty, reach his hole in the ice, and disappear, to the shooter's serious disappointment. Small bore elongated bullets were very rapidly adopted, and as readily abandoned. 'They did not kill dead;' the spherical bullet did this better. It would be wise to pause and consider whether a good military rifle is a good game-shooting rifle or not: whether the hole in the beast be wide enough. I am inclined to think the reduction to a bore of 25 too small for this purpose."

This is probably the reason for the, what appears to be a fairly large bore English Style muzzleloading rifle in the 1904 picture. They worked.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bakposten
.300 member


Reged: 15/05/12
Posts: 108
Loc: Norway
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: Daryl_S]
      #223682 - 16/01/13 01:07 AM

Got my seal hunting permit in the mail today, so hopefully I will have a story or two to share in a short time.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
SAHUNT
Sponsor


Reged: 27/12/04
Posts: 892
Loc: Centurion, RSA
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: bakposten]
      #223688 - 16/01/13 03:27 AM

This is a very informative and enlightning discussion. Thanks for sharing Lancaster

--------------------
Life is how you pass the time between hunting trips.
Sometimes I do not express myself properly in the English language, please forgive me, I am just a boertjie.
Jaco Human
jacohu@mweb.co.za
SA Hunting Experience


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bakposten
.300 member


Reged: 15/05/12
Posts: 108
Loc: Norway
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: SAHUNT]
      #223983 - 21/01/13 12:08 AM

We had our first trip out hunting for seals yesterday, it was quite cold and we where lucky to get the boat in the water (and back on the trailer in the afternoon). We saw no seals yesterday, but tons and tons of different ducks and birds. But we have not given up yet, still a long time left of the season. I will be back with more.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Caprivi
.375 member


Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: bakposten]
      #224014 - 21/01/13 06:58 AM

Very cool pictures and story line. A lost/forgotten sport.
I have just started reading "Farthest North" by Hansen. Great tale of a by-gone era in a still today little known land.

Funny how the comments of gun maintance came up. A shooter in say, Texas - hot/dry, HAS to have a stainless/Syn rifle for the weather, yet these Men on the North Sea are using wood/iron......:):):)

Edited by Caprivi (21/01/13 03:35 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.450 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 5112
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: Caprivi]
      #224060 - 21/01/13 11:26 PM

hello gentleman, I was some days away and had there a TV. I quite remember this old style technology from decades gone now.
there was a movie this evening about eskimo hunter in north west greenland. not bad at all, they were very clear about the problems, an old culture that can be lost for ever because of alcohol( the eskimo can not handel this poison), danish welfare system that having equal bad results like the australian welfare system for the aboriginals, the chance and the danger for the people in greenland thats in the immense oil and gas resources they found there.
the maybe biggest problems for the man who wish to life as hunters are quotas on animals they can hunt in a year and the break down for seal furs on the international market because of the baby seal "hunting" in canada in the 1980s.
a quote when living in the artic is a very bad idea

can be seen here but sound is only in german and in french. they use the same kind of blind on the ice like hundreds years ago. rifles seems to be in the 222 rem/223 rem class

http://videos.arte.tv/de/videos/360-geo-reportage--7255272.html

the eskimo hunters are very aware what for a lost it would be if their culture and the knowledge about living and hunting in the ice will be go!
must be a real honour to being out with this frontiersman

bakposten, I notice the birds were cormorant's! what is the opinion about this bird in norway?
is there a possibilty to manage this bird?
to say it here I am happy to see the cormorant only twenty years ago it was rare in my area.
but if a forestry official make a quota how many reed deer and roe deer have to shoot a year to save the forest fishery official's can also make a quota for cormorants.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (21/01/13 11:41 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bakposten
.300 member


Reged: 15/05/12
Posts: 108
Loc: Norway
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: lancaster]
      #224095 - 22/01/13 10:36 AM

The cormorant, or skarv as we call them, population is quite good around where I live, Oslofjorden. They are not restricted and can be hunted at see from the 1. October through 31. November. Further north in Norway there are some restrictions, and I think you only can shoot young birds with white bellies. They are quite popular as a hunting species, but personally I don`t like the taste of them. We saw hundreds of them on Saturday. It has been a great year for all "sea bird" species up here this year.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.450 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 5112
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: bakposten]
      #224125 - 23/01/13 01:17 AM

cormorant is untouchable here
if you kill him the greenys will show the true face


--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bakposten
.300 member


Reged: 15/05/12
Posts: 108
Loc: Norway
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: lancaster]
      #224146 - 23/01/13 04:13 AM

It seems like we shoot around 1000 cormorants a year in my county, the east side of Oslofjorden. Probably more on the west side and south tip of Norway.

Almost like shooting a swan up here then!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.450 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 5112
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: bakposten]
      #255470 - 20/10/14 05:40 AM



with 40000 seals on the coast of the netherlands, germany and danemark in 2013 its proably right for another epedemic. since august there were over 200 dead seals found on Anholt island in denmark and till now they have over 230 dead seals on the North Frisian islands in germany. this will probably stop with the advent of real winter weather because the seals will live than more solitary and they dont have the contact with other sick animals anymore.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1425
Loc: Finland
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: lancaster]
      #255589 - 22/10/14 09:28 PM

I just read that you, lancaster, has been in Langeoog. Three years ago I was there with sailing boat. My pal bought old x-99 from Holland (very south near Belgium) and we sailed the boat to Finland. We over-nighted in 4 or 5 those Wadden sea -islands and IMO there is a living hell for that kind of sailing boat with long keel like we had...
In summer 2013 we were in Emden and Borkum, again fetching a sailing boat but this time we didn´t bought any, just changed the crew.

Before this topic I had no idea that Wadden sea area has been a seal hunters place. Here in Finland we use to hunt seals too but nowadays it is quite restricted.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.450 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 5112
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: Igorrock]
      #255597 - 23/10/14 12:20 AM

its a nice route especially in summertimes, do you take the short way through the north sea baltic sea canal?
give me a hint if you have to do it again I will come with you. the wadden sea is very dangerous if you dont know it and what may look idyllic can have hidden danger under the surface. the gats between the islands in frisian called Ee or Aa can be very deep and have a extrem speed when the tide is coming.
the frisians development "Plattbodenschiff" or "Platbodem" on netherlandish without a keel but centreboards is the right thing for this





they have find now over 350 dead seals on north frisian islands alone. the national park - of course, the leader's of this get their appointment by political reason's meaning they have the political correct oppinion - declaring this is fine because its a natural process. hunting the seals again would not be "natural"
if the animal dying by a disease its fine, if you hunt it its a crime


http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http%...ed=0CJQBEK0DMB4
btw, there is a special group of "seal hunter" the "Seehundbeauftragte" - typical german word - or "Seehundjäger" but with the assignment of the local government. he care for the seals in every way and when there is an living animal but with clear signs of such an disease he will shot it. goverment official dont talk about this because they are natural born hypocrites.



you simply have to look and move like a seal


















Edited by lancaster (23/10/14 12:48 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
SvilleModerator
.400 member


Reged: 23/03/10
Posts: 1189
Loc: Sweden
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: lancaster]
      #255614 - 23/10/14 04:22 AM

Thanks for give us this photos and a view of the sealhunting in the past!! /Staffan

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1425
Loc: Finland
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: Sville]
      #255616 - 23/10/14 05:23 AM

Quote:

do you take the short way through the north sea baltic sea canal?


Yes, we took. Both times from Brunsbüttel to Kiel. And yes, at first trip we have at one night quite dangerous sailing throught banks between Terschelling and Ameland to safe behind last named western corner near Hollum´s lighthouse. Our anchor still rests there....

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.416 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 4718
Loc: Idaho
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: Igorrock]
      #255677 - 25/10/14 08:19 AM

Fascinating!!!

We owe much in polar exploration to the generations of whalers and sealers. Both ends of the globe.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 3049
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: 9.3x57]
      #255686 - 25/10/14 10:43 AM

A very good and informative read.

Thank you for posting.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.450 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 5112
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: Rule303]
      #257240 - 27/11/14 06:10 AM

well this can be interesting for the greens in future

"
Grey seals kill porpoises and could attack humans, scientists warn
Swimmers have been warned to keep clear of grey seals after scientists discover that they attack and kill porpoises


By Sarah Knapton, Science Editor

11:55PM GMT 25 Nov 2014


Grey seals may be a danger to swimmers after scientists discovered they were responsible for the widespread slaughter and mutilation of North Sea porpoises.

Wildlife experts have long been divided over what caused the horrific injuries seen on the bodies of hundreds of beached harbour porpoises. Some blamed boat propellers while others claimed the animals had become entangled in fishing nets and left at the mercy of scavengers.

Now DNA analysis of their injuries has led to an intriguing conclusion. It seems they are regularly attacked and killed by grey seals which tear strips of nutritious blubber from their bodies.

And scientists have warned that the seals could target human swimmers in a similar way.

Over the past decade more than one thousand severely scarred and wounded porpoises have washed up on North Sea coastlines.

“A substantial proportion of harbour porpoises that stranded on the Dutch coast were mutilated by grey seals,” said lead researcher Mardik Leopold of the Institute for Marine Resources and Ecosystem Studies in The Netherlands.

“Most cases involved active killing and that only a small proportion can be attributed to post-mortem scavenging. This makes predation by grey seals one of the main causes of death in harbour porpoises currently stranding in The Netherlands.

“Many of the mutilated porpoises were found on Dutch shores used frequently by human bathers and surfers and there would appear to be no reason why humans may not be at risk from grey seal attacks.”

Grey seals can grow to nearly 11ft in length and weigh 880lbs. There are large colonies in UK waters including at Donna Nook in Lincolnshire, the Farne Islands off the Northumberland coast, Ramsey Island off the coast of Pembrokeshire as well as large populations on the Scottish islands of Orkney and North Rona.

Although only a few mutilated porpoises have ever washed up onto British shores, experts say it could be just a matter of time before the behaviour becomes widespread, and pose a real danger to humans.

“Very few have been found, and recognised for what they are, in the UK,” added Mr Leopold.

“Yet, most grey seals live in Scotland, and so do many porpoises, and we know that grey seals sometimes swim from the UK to the Continent.

“It could be just a matter of time, of course as this behaviour is now very common here.”

Researchers looked back at images of 1,081 dead porpoises which washed up between 2003 and 2013. Of the 721 animals which were fresh enough to look for marks, some 25 per cent showed visible signs of attack by grey seals. They were also compared to three porpoises which had seal DNA in their wounds. The bites and scratches were found to match.

The scientists estimate that at least 17 per cent of animals washed up on shore were killed by the seals adding that many more bodies are likely to have been lost at sea or eaten completely.

Richard Harrington, of the Marine Conservation Society said: “Grey seals can be very territorial and we would always tell people not to approach them. Scuba divers often report being approached by seals.

“I have never heard of any attacks on bathers but you can’t rule it out.

“We have had lots of reports of carcasses of harbour porpoises where we have been unable to explain their deaths or their condition and this report gives a feasible explanation.”

The authors suggest that grey seals may have originally scavenged the bodies of porpoises which had become entangled in fishing nets and drowned, before moving to actually hunting the animals.

A spokesman for the RSPCA said swimmers should take care when in the water near seals.

"While we would urge people not to be unduly concerned by this study, it is important for people to remember that seals are wild animals and are therefore by their nature unpredictable.

“We would advise members of the public to be cautious around them however its unlikely these animals would pose an immediate threat to humans in the sea.

"Generally, seals do not directly interact with people and are naturally wary of humans. Like many other members of British wildlife they shun human contact.

"If a member of the public find a seal in distress we would urge them to contact rescue organisations such as ourselves where trained handlers can respond.”

The research was published in the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society B."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlif...tists-warn.html


.


of course the greens dont care for human's but to safe the beloved porpoises there could maybe one day a "Whale Protection Hunt" on grey seales


.

bespoken only as a theory here in 2012

"Did Grey Seals Mutilate Two Harbour Porpoises?
by Ed Yong







Here’s the face of a grey seal. Aw. Doesn’t it look adorable? Remember, however, that seals evolved from bear-like ancestors and are part of the (mostly) flesh-eating group of mammals called carnivorans. If you look inside its mouth, you’ll find strong canine teeth. And Jan Haelters from the royal Belgian Institute of Natural Sciences thinks that those teeth did this to a harbour porpoise:

This poor animal was one of two harbour porpoises that washed up onto the Belgian coast in September 2011, three weeks and thirty kilometres apart. Both were freshly dead and still bleeding from huge wounds. Witnesses saw the strandings and reported them to local authorities. Haelters was at the site within an hour.

Both porpoises were young males with extensive injuries. The first, shown in the photo above, is obviously missing its throat. The second (click if you really want to see) was even more badly injured, with skin and blubber ripped from its belly. Both animals were also riddled with a series of smaller cuts and punctures.

None of these wounds are consistent with a man-made cause, like nets, fishing gear or boats. An animal, then. There are plenty of sharks in the area, but none of the wounds looked like a shark bite. Dolphins have been known to batter porpoises to death but they do not kill to eat. Their porpoiseless slaughter (I’m very sorry) results in pulped internal organs, rather than substantial missing flesh.

Instead, Haelters thinks that the pairs of short, parallel, curved punctures on the animals were inflicted by canine teeth. Foxes prowl the beaches but only at night—these porpoises washed up during the day. Dogs fit the bill too, but Haelters argue that there are no stray dogs in the area and that domestic ones aren’t allowed on the beach at that time of the year. Besides, people saw the stranded animals and officials got to the bodies quickly. Someone would have noticed if a dog was gnawing away at the carcass.

That leaves just two culprits, both of them seals. The gap between the paired punctures—four to five centimetres wide—rules out the smaller harbour seal. By process of elimination, Haelters thinks the grey seal must have killed the porpoises.

Male grey seals are formidable animals that can weigh up to 350 kilograms, and Belgian lifeguards did spot several “very large seals” close to the shore in the summer of 2011. These animals eat fish, crabs, squid, and even sea birds on occasion. They grab onto large fish like salmon and cod with the claws of their front flippers while flaying skin and flesh with their teeth—a feeding style that could easily have produced the injuries seen on the dead porpoises.

If Haelters is right, there’s something oddly poetic about the otherwise grisly story. Whales and dolphins evolved from deer-like hoofed animals while seals, as I said, are carnivores that have taken to the sea. A seal eating a porpoise is a modern marine episode in a longstanding conflict between a group of (mostly) predators and a group of (mostly) prey.

But Kathryn Ono, who studies marine mammals at the University of New England, says that the case is circumstantial, and that Haelters has too readily dismissed the possibility that dogs inflicted the wounds. “Is it possible that grey seals attacked the porpoises? Yes. Is it conclusive? No,” she says. “They would need either an eyewitness, or seal DNA in the wounds. [Even] with DNA, they cannot be sure if the porpoises were bitten post-mortem or were killed by the seals.”

So, no habeas porpoise for the grey seal yet (I’m really very sorry). Ono also points out that harbour porpoises are much faster than grey seals. Haelters raises the same question, but notes that porpoises often rest or move slowly at the sea surface, and grey seals can sometimes act as ambush predators. The two porpoises were also not in the best of health—their blubber was thin and they had lots of parasites. Perhaps they were too weak to react quickly to a surprise attack.

However, Haelters cautions: “We would like to warn against blindly extrapolating this cause of death to all other cases of heavily mutilated harbour porpoises found recently along southern North Sea shores.” Indeed, if grey seals really did kill the porpoises, it seems they only started recently. More than 600 harbour porpoises have been stranded on Belgium’s beaches since 2000, and not a single one has the same pattern of injuries as these two individuals. There are some cases from the Netherlands that fit the bill, but only since 2006. Haelters notes that the grey seal population in the North Sea has gone up dramatically in the last decade, so increasing competition could have spurred them to try out new delicacies.

Erich Fitzgerald from Museum Victoria in Melbourne agrees that the evidence is circumstantial. “It points to the possibility that grey seals in the North Sea have a much wider dietary repertoire than typically thought,” he says. “The next step in testing this hypothesis is a wider examination of other mutilated small cetacean carcasses as well as at-sea observations of grey seal feeding behaviour.”

“I would not make a big deal out of it until someone actually sees an attack, and if it is a common occurrence, then that will come soon,” adds Ono.

Update: Haelters got back to me with some responses to the criticisms. On the issue of whether the animal could have been bitten after death, he says that they found several signs of haemorrhaging, “indicative of wounds inflicted on a live creature”. He adds, “Cutting or biting into a dead animal does not provoke blood being pressed into the surrounding tissue – this was the case at several locations in both animals, and was clearly evidence of wounds being inflicted on a live porpoise.”

On the suggestion that he tests for seal DNA, he says, “We have at least thought of this, but after consulting with specialists, it became clear that – as everything happens in an aquatic environment – that any trace of seal DNA from the salive of the seal would have been washed away in the water before stranding, and that it would be very unlikely to find some.”

Reference: Haelters, Kerckhof, Jauniaux & Degraer. 2012. The Grey Seal (Halichoerus grypus) as a Predator of Harbour Porpoises (Phocoena phocoena)? Aquatic Mammals http://dx.doi.org/10.1578/AM.38.4.2012.343 "

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2012/12/20/did-grey-seals-mutilate-two-harbour-porpoises/

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.450 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 5112
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: lancaster]
      #276471 - 12/01/16 08:35 PM

we still need a environment protection hunting quota for gray seals
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...nimals-science/


"Cute Killers? Gray Seals Maul, Suffocate Seals and Porpoises, Studies Say
Long thought to be fish-eaters, the big-eyed animals have been observed taking on bigger prey in the North Sea.
By Traci Watson, for National Geographic

PUBLISHED Tue Feb 03 11:02:00 EST 2015



It seemed a heart-warming sight: two seals apparently frolicking in the sea before slipping below the waves off the German island of Helgoland (map) in 2013.

Then an ominous sheet of red unfurled across the waves. When the pair resurfaced, the bigger seal was skinning and eating its companion. (Also see "Did Grey Seals Mutilate Two Harbour Porpoises?")

"We thought they were playing," says marine biologist Sebastian Fuhrmann of the environmental consulting firm IBL-Umweltplanung, whose photos of the killing of a young harbor seal will appear in the March 2015 issue of the Journal of Sea Research. "It looked really cute, but in just a few seconds, it was over."

The triumphant hunter of the harbor seal was, astonishingly, a gray seal. These soulful-eyed animals have long been thought to subsist on lowly creatures such as cod. But now the gray seal seems to be morphing into the most murderous killer of the southern North Sea.

New eyewitness accounts and forensic evidence have implicated the sumo wrestler-size marine mammals in the bloody mutilation and death of harbor seals and harbor porpoises across the region. Some of the latter apparently succumb after being ambushed and held underwater until they suffocate. (Watch a video of harbor seals hunting under the waves.)

The gray seal "has the image of a nice, cuddly, friendly animal that eats fish," says marine biologist Mardik Leopold of the Institute for Marine Resources and Ecosystem Studies in the Netherlands.

But mounting evidence is suggesting otherwise.

A grey seal (Halichoerus grypus), Germany's biggest predator, attacking a young harbour seal (Phoca vitulina) on the shore of Heligoland in the North Sea, Germany.























Photograph by Sebastian Fuhrmann

Surprisingly Dangerous

When large numbers of mangled harbor porpoise carcasses began to wash up along the southeastern region of the North Sea a decade or so ago, no one suspected gray seals.

Porpoises can easily outswim them, and the seals hadn't been seen dining on any other creature bigger than a duck.

But clues slowly began to accumulate that gray seals in some areas are more fearsome than scientists had realized.

In 2013, a wildlife watcher saw a gray seal near the French coast suddenly pop up next to a harbor porpoise and clamp its jaws onto the porpoise's head, according to a study published in October 2014 in Marine Mammal Science.

The same year, a gray seal in German waters was seen whirling a helpless harbor seal around by the neck; a half-eaten harbor seal carcass washed ashore the next day, according to the upcoming Journal of Sea Research study.

Gray seal DNA has also been found deep inside bite marks on the bodies of badly battered harbor porpoises, according to a pair of studies published in 2014 in PLOS ONE and Marine Ecology Progress Series.

Thanks to DNA analysis, scientists can trace certain porpoise injuries to gray seals. That's because the seals' handiwork often causes large areas of missing skin and blubber, as well as three to five parallel scratches on their prey's skin, according to a November 2014 study in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B.

Though scientists have ruled out a few other culprits for the mangled corpses, including other predators such as Greenland sharks, some biologists are still skeptical that gray seals are primarily responsible. (See "Slow Sharks Sneak Up on Sleeping Seals [and Eat Them]?")

For instance, biologist Dave Thompson believes that many of the harbor seals thought to be eaten by gray seals have actually been torn apart by ship propellers, and that the gray seals scavenge them after death.

"The propeller-damaged carcasses seem to be turning up wherever we look, so the problem is very widespread and still massively under-reported," said Thompson, of the University of St. Andrews in Scotland.

Even so, it's clear "we have a new top predator in the North Sea," especially for harbor porpoises in the last four years, concludes Thibaut Bouveroux of South Africa's Nelson Mandela Metropolitan University.

"The question is why."

Cute ... and Deadly

Scientists have several theories. It's possible gray seals recently developed a taste for porpoise meat after preying on porpoises snared in fishing nets. Or, the fish that gray seals normally savor are growing scarcer.

Another idea is that these marauders of the waves have simply returned to their old habits: The mammals have recolonized the North Sea's southern stretches after being mostly wiped out in the region due to overhunting. (Also see "How a Leopard Seal Fed Me Penguins.")

Whatever the reason, other animals should keep a wary eye out for the appealing seal with the huge, liquid eyes and clownish flippers.

"Just because they're cute doesn't make them less of a predator," says biologist Abbo van Neer of Germany's University of Veterinary Medicine Hannover. "Yes, it's bloody. Yes, it's gruesome. That is just the way nature is."
"

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Daryl_S
.577 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 18061
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: lancaster]
      #276486 - 13/01/16 05:08 AM

So, no habeas porpoise for the grey seal yet

LOL

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.450 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 5112
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: lancaster]
      #301834 - 16/06/17 02:37 PM

dutch fisherman found a dead harbour porpoise with two heads before the cost of holland
http://www.hetnatuurhistorisch.nl/filead..._2017_06_07.pdf









--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.450 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 5112
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: lancaster]
      #305405 - 16/09/17 06:10 AM

german soldiers with a grey seal shot by the guy in the middle, probably 1915 near Mitau in latvia
https://www.flickr.com/photos/drakegoodman/34878788816/



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.450 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 5112
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Hahn in Ruh [Re: lancaster]
      #320445 - 07/10/18 09:39 PM

https://ostfrieslandreloaded.wordpress.c...jagd-in-europa/
























--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 4 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  ErikD, Sville 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 9827

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved