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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Best 22 LR pistol?
      #99369 - 16/03/08 11:33 PM

Hello Folks,

I’ve owned numerous 22 long rifle pistols and revolvers, and have never been completely satisfied. They’ve all been good, just not good enough. Some were accurate, but awkward to carry, and others just the opposite. Probably the best automatic I own is the Beretta M-76W, and my favorite revolver is the S&W M-617. I’ve long admired the S&W M-41 and the High Standard Supermatic and variations, but have never owned one.

Before I buy another, I would like to hear your opinions. Given the criteria of convenient carry, safe carry, handling qualities, and accuracy, what is the single best 22 LR pistol or revolver?

Take care, Tom


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iqbal
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Reged: 05/02/03
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Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: Tatume]
      #99372 - 16/03/08 11:58 PM

For plinking and general use I find the Rugern Mk 11 a good pistol.Once when I was into target shooting I had a Hammerli,and they don't come any better.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: Tatume]
      #99375 - 17/03/08 12:12 AM

Ahhh, .22 pistols, the best handgun combination ever concocted!!

There are a lot of really good .22's, but my favorite and the ones I have now are the Ruger MKII's. I do not have much bad to say about alot of .22 pistols, but do have these as favorites.

First, the why...

My little .22/.32 Kit Gun was a dandy, except it and my old 18 both developed a lot of wear {endshake, peened-over cylinder stop notches, side-to-side play} from range work and I sold them. I am not a big revolver fan anyway, or I should say I was for many years but am not anymore. But that Kit Gun was very nice to carry and I shot a lot of critters with it. The 18 was too bulky to carry for a 6-shot .22 IMO, but was a quality pistol.

I will not buy a handgun with a key lock. That eliminates the new crop of pistols being made today. I consider them unsafe.

Here's what I like and why:

Ruger MKII fixed-sight tapered barrel. Mine are blue but I am not too dogmatic about that. I just prefer blue. I am not a competitive target shooter. I shoot Remington cheap HP's because they are cheap and in my gun actually quite accurate and do everything I need them to do, which is; plink/practise, shoot trapped critters, snowshoe hares and mostly ground squirrels. I shoot dozens of ground squirrels with a handgun every year {season should get going here in about a month if the snow melts. } I zero the guns {I have two} to the ammo so I do not need adjustable sights.

I like the MKII Rugers for the following reasons:

* Both feel very good in the hand, are accurate, reliable {see below...} and holster well. I have both a 4 and 6 inch barrel gun. The 4" carries well, 6" gains a little velocity.

* Both guns have magazines that are inexpensive and readily available {not so for some pistols}. I have no interest in a pistol with an expensive mag or one that is hard to find. I carry a pistol all the time and I do not care for rare or troublesome mags.

* I don't think a fellow can wear one out.

* Best of all, most Ruger MKII's I have found have a significant advantage over some other factory .22's. That is this: Straight from the factory, they WILL NOT feed many different types of ammo! Why is this an advantage? Because frequently the guns can be got in NIB condition for really cheap, and the fix is so easy it is laughable. Remember the fault when you buy a nice used gun! It'll save you a hundred bucks or more!

The gun is stripped, a few grits of wet/dry sandpaper are wrapped on a pencil eraser and the feed ramp is polished. Can be done during the commercials in a "Rockford Files" rerun. Once the obvious tool marks are gone, the gun will swallow anything, even the supposedly-crappy Remington bulk ammo. Same fix works on MKI's. Mint MKII's can be had for really cheap and I think this is the reason. After polishing, mine are dead reliable.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Tatume
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Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #99385 - 17/03/08 12:40 AM

Quote:

I will not buy a handgun with a key lock. That eliminates the new crop of pistols being made today. I consider them unsafe.




I agree that locking mechanisms are ugly, inelegant, and an insult to both a fine handgun and its owner. However, I own several, and although I used to share the opinion that they are unsafe, my experience hasn’t borne that out.

Two of my S&W revolvers have key locks. I considered disassembling them and removing the mechanism, disabling the mechanism by filing, or disabling the mechanism with a drop of Lock Tite. I never got around to it, and they have accompanied me many miles with never a hint that they would accidentally engage. They are otherwise fine guns, and I’m willing to accept the flaw. If you were inclined towards revolvers, I would encourage you to reconsider the S&W M-617, but the point is moot.


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Huvius
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Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #99387 - 17/03/08 12:44 AM

I like the Rugers too, but I am also a fan of the classics, so I use a Colt Woodsman.
They are getting up there in pricing nowdays, so buy one soon if you decide to.
Also, much of the value on the woodsman seems to be based on original finish condition. Mine is a little worn along the barrel, but shoots wonderfully.
Browning Buckmarks are supposed to be nice, but I have never owned one.
Colt Ace .22 conversion for the 1911 is sweet too.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

Edited by Huvius (17/03/08 01:08 AM)


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: Huvius]
      #99389 - 17/03/08 01:17 AM

Tatume: I consider the lock unsafe because it requires something other than the gun itself to make the gun operable. If I need the gun I don't want to look for a key.

Also, a friend had significant problems with the lock on his .44 Mountain Gun which Smith tried several times to fix. The lock on my .45 MG was sticky but the overall quality of the that sixgun was so poor I got rid of it. On the S&W forum there is, I believe, still a continuing post referencing ongoing lock problems. I'm sure there are many guns that function fine, but evidently there are many that do not.

I certainly do not consider revolvers thenselves "bad" in any way, just not my cup of tea for the uses I have for a pistol for the most part. For example, a really good one i liked a lot was my ruger Single-Six convertible .22 Mag/.22 LR. With Mag cylinder in place it really was a different gun. I made about my best handgun shot ever with one. Call it luckiest. On the farm in Kentucky, I saw a groundhog run for its hole. It dove in, then peeked over the top and at 60 long paces, leaning over the hood of the pickup I shot it thru the head with a round from the .22 Mag. That was about a 2-inch target and the Mag got it.

Colts, Smiths, Brownings, High Standards, Rugers; I can't say the Ruger MKII's are the "best", just merely my favorite horses in a very large stable of fine riding stock.

I will say this though, if I could only have one pistol, it would be a .22 LR.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
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Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #99399 - 17/03/08 04:44 AM

The 3 that I have been the happiest with are:
S&W K-22 (older one, made in the early 50s)
S&W M-63 Kit Gun
Ruger Mk-2 with Standard barrel.
All around these 3 have been the best for "real world" shooting, in my experience.

I have owned 25-30 others in 22 LR over the last 45 years, including some very expencive and fine ones.

Brownings, (3)
High standards, (2)
Colts, (4)
Berretta, (1)
Walther, (1)
Rugers, (7)
Freedom Arms, (1)
Taurus (2)
S&W (6)
And a few others.

I would still go for those 3 above over all the others.
But that's just me


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Ripp
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Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: Tatume]
      #99404 - 17/03/08 05:31 AM

Tatume

Speaking only from personal experience--I have several Rugers in both bull barrel and tapered versions--the bull barrels I have are extremely accurate--mine is with the 45 grip configuration..

As to the S/W Model 41--that is probably my favorite .22 I own to date and again very accurate..have not exprienced any problems with it and a blast to shoot..

I also have a ultra-lightweight S/W--as a carry gun if I am going to a walk or checking a trap line...works very well and amazingly accurate for what it is..

Have had numerous Ruger Revovlers but, IMHO, they do not compare to the S/W 6 guns of old..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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peter
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Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: Ripp]
      #99407 - 17/03/08 06:09 AM

high standards for me, although i like the 22 set, i have for my 1911 paraordnance 9mm/18.


best regards

peter


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9.3x57
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Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: peter]
      #99412 - 17/03/08 06:50 AM



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
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Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #99417 - 17/03/08 07:32 AM

Hummmmmmmmmmmmm.
9threeXfifty7 may like Rugers........... It's possible.

(just a thought)


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zimhunter
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Reged: 05/02/04
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Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: szihn]
      #99430 - 17/03/08 08:45 AM

While I certainly don't know what the 'BEST' one is I have, in the last 50 years, owned probably every make made and that's really not MUCH of and exaggeration. I absolutely love 22 pistols. The one I have kept longer than any though has been an old 22/45 conversion I put together many years ago. It really shoots nicely and I just like it. For a 'best' designation I would have to say the Walther Olympic, the S&W 41 short barrel and the Colt Woodsman MatchTarget short barrel would certainly tie for that honor. I could never choose between them and have owned several of them thru the yaers. Only memorable REVOLVER I can think of was a Colt SAA that I converted to 22 while in gunsmith school. Looked good shot good. Can't seem to keep 22 revolvers but almost always have a couple of autos around. Only 2 I have now is the 22/45 and a Walther TPH that I carry regularly.

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
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Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: zimhunter]
      #99475 - 18/03/08 12:06 AM

Here's another fan of the S&W Model 41, my primary target pistol for the past 20 years. Probably put 25-30K rounds through that handgun, never had a problem. Liked it so much, I acquired another one chambered for the .22 Short when the opportunity knocked (they became illegal for ISSF Rapid Fire...now a collectors item?)


Even so, I can't deny a certain fascination for senorita's purse-guns, like this little Star HK Lancer in my collection.....
Eight-shot mag, fixed-barrel accuracy, fits in the hand.
What a sweetie!



--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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dnovo
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Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: Marrakai]
      #99477 - 18/03/08 12:53 AM

Best? Depends on what. I have a number of high end target 22s, my Pardini is the best rapid fire 22LR while the Hammerli is the best Olympic single shot. I also have a Sig P210 in a 22LR that is the best built, most reliable non-competition 22LR ever made, but out of production and very expensive. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels


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Checkman
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Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: dnovo]
      #99504 - 18/03/08 09:24 AM

I like my plain Jane Browning Buckmark Camper. It cost me $200 four years ago and it hasn't dissapointed me.

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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: Checkman]
      #99937 - 22/03/08 05:13 AM

Today while shooting at the gun club a buddy of mine came by to chat. When I mentioned that I would like to have a S&W M-41 the conversation went something like this:

I have one.
Want to sell it?
Sure.
Cool. Bring it with you next week.
I have it here; take it with you.

So now I'm the very pleased owner of an older but immaculate M-41. When I fired some 10-shot groups at 25 yards I was amazed! It shoots one ragged hole of about 1/2 inch diameter. I thought I owned some accurate 22 pistols, but this thing is eerie.

Take care, Tom


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Landy
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Reged: 05/03/08
Posts: 33
Loc: CA & ID, USA
Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: Tatume]
      #99950 - 22/03/08 09:22 AM

High Standards for me. The old Model B is my choice, although it gives up a bit to the target versions the handling and carry qualities compensate.

Landy


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: Landy]
      #99966 - 22/03/08 12:17 PM

I am a real fan of the M41 S&W. I have put about 15,000 rounds through mine, maybe more.

Ran into a snag the past year or so. Finished up two cases of PMC Standard Velocity ammo. Ordered two cases of Federal Standard Velocity. The M41 won't eat the Federal. Not at all!

I bought a spring kit and tried everything. Cut coils until the slide didn't have enough spring behind it to shuck a new shell and close the breech. No way that pistol will eat Federal. So I have $275 worth of .22 ammo that won't cycle.

The Federal shoots fine in my Marvel conversion on my Gold Cup National Match. It shoots fine in my buddy's Woodsman Match Target. It shoots fine in my wife's Ruger Standard Mk II.

Lately I brought my Colt Officer's Model Match out of it's lazy retirement. The Federal shoots damn good in a wheel gun.

Sure do miss my M41.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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9.3x57
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Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: CptCurl]
      #99967 - 22/03/08 12:22 PM

Quote:

I bought a spring kit and tried everything.




Curl:

What actually was the problem?

Not feeding...not extracting...not ejecting?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #99970 - 22/03/08 12:48 PM

9.3,

It's been a year or more since I shot it. As I remember, the slide wasn't coming back with enough force to eject the shell and feed a new one.

I'm no expert on the function of semi's.

It was my impression that a lighter spring would cure the problem. I got a Wolfe spring kit from Midway, put the lightest spring in the gun. Same problem. Started cutting coils and had some improvement, but like I said, the spring got so weak that there wasn't enough force to close the action on a new round. It's an ammo problem, as the gun functions fine with other stuff.

Any suggestions?

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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9.3x57
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Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: CptCurl]
      #99991 - 22/03/08 11:07 PM

Curl:

A question; What does the gun look like immediately after the malfunction? Meaning, is the empty case still stuck in the gun and if so how is it lying?

What you describe could indeed be merely lack of recoil in functioning the slide, or, I suspect, an extractor problem with the rim dimensions of the Federal Ammo. .22 cases vary quite a bit in dimensions. For example, not an auto pistol issue, but I had some lots of Remington ammo that would not allow the cylinder to close and rotate freely. Culprit was thick rim.

Have you miked the ammo? Your problem sounds like it could be a narrow dimension across the base of the case; little for the extractor to grab and too little rise in the top round in the magazine, working in concert to give poor/weak extraction, light strike on the ejector, and ride-over on the top round in the mag.

Correspondingly, it could be a thick rim; extractor not seated 100% on the rim, weak extraction, poor ejector strike.

I have watched a number of high speed video and pictures of auto pistol cycling and it is quite amazing what the empty case can and does inside the slide before it actually clears the slide...even on well-cycling pistols! Doesn't take much to bugger the deal.

Next:

Have you tried slow-cycling the gun? If not, try this; load a magazine with ammo the pistol likes and functions well with. Point the pistol in a safe direction, seat the mag and very slowly cycle the action. As you do, watch very carefully exactly what is happening. It may be that the gun does some weird things {hangs up, jams, etc} even with "good" ammo when slow-cycled. That is OK, as the gun doesn't function slowly when fired. The thing here tho is to watch closely what is going on, how the slide picks up a round, how the round exits the mag, how it seats in the chamber, how it is grasped by the extractor, whether it is held tightly by the extractor, what it does when it strikes the ejector, etc.

Now, duplicate the process with the Federal ammo. Pay special attention to what happens to the round as it is extracted from the chamber and is dragged back from the chamber to the ejector. Then watch the ejector strike and what happens to the round. Does the empty fall off the extractor half-way back or just in front of the ejector?

Also, remember that rimfire cases can change shape a bit when fired. You can try this with empty cases, too, that is, the extracting/ejecting process.

Troubleshooting auto pistols can be a real pain and frustrating, too, but getting one to work is pretty enjoyable, too.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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buckeyeshooter
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Loc: ohio, USA
Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #100060 - 23/03/08 01:25 PM

Smith & Wesson . The model 41 if you want an autoloader or a model 18 with TTT if you want a revolver.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: buckeyeshooter]
      #100088 - 23/03/08 09:45 PM

9.3,

I failed to mention the Federal ammo won't work in my friend's M41 either.

I may try some of what you suggest and report back.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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9.3x57
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Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: CptCurl]
      #100093 - 24/03/08 12:01 AM

Quote:

9.3,

I failed to mention the Federal ammo won't work in my friend's M41 either.

I may try some of what you suggest and report back.

Curl




Yup, leads me to believe there is an engineering geometry not compatible with that round {extractor/rim relationship, etc}.

IIRC, the 41 was designed to handle standard velocity .22 ammo, isn't that correct? I would be a bit surprised that mere recoil impulse was insufficient to function the pistol.

Indeed, it is possible that a STRONGER recoil spring may be needed.

Weak recoil springs can cause all sorts of ills in an auto, allowing the slide to recoil back so fast it then "bounces" of the recoil stop of the frame and goes forward so fast it actually overshoots the round in the magazine, giving the impression that the slide never went back far enough to strip a round, when in fact it went all the way back and returned before the next round in the magazine had time to raise into position to be picked up by the bolt face.

Other factors like a wide rim can aggravate this, as they may create some excessive friction on the rounds in the magazine, contributing to slow feeding up of the rounds in the magazine.

And, one of the most common troublemakers is a weak magazine spring that does not force the rounds up fast enough to get stripped by the bolt.

Gotta do the slow cycle thing. You may note slow or herky-jerky feeding of the mag rounds, or some other anomaly. Also, observe the gun in its fired and jammed condition. Jot down what you see so you don't forget. Sometimes there is one small and slightly weird thing that goes un-noticed in a cursory glance that solves the problem with its repair.

I am pretty sure we can run this rabbit to its hole. Time and patience are sometimes the only tools necessary, but in general, when there is a problem with an auto pistol, there is also a solution.

Once you get this one worked out, you are ready to tackle a case of B-series Stars and a boxful of Lugers...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
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Re: Best 22 LR pistol? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #100100 - 24/03/08 01:30 AM

I tried Federal Gold Match in my newly-acquired M-41 and it seems to run just fine. The point about the recoil spring may be important though. The M-41 has a match chamber, and the cartridge is forced in. I examined some bullets with a loupe before and after being chambered and it is clear that the lead is ever so slightly squeezed. However, no rifling marks were evident, as is the case with my Winchester M-51D.

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