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NitroX
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Are Revolvers still relevant?
#376653 - 12/05/23 04:38 AM

https://youtu.be/X0QuB2v5rLw

Massad Ayoob: Are Revolvers still relevant? The positives of modern wheel guns. Critical Mas 60

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lancaster
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: NitroX]
#376655 - 12/05/23 05:44 AM

no, not relevant anymore

its used here and there but maybe in the same way people using hammer guns. well, they are from the same time frame so this is a good picture to show what I mean. they will be made and they will be bought by people who like them but the good old days are over for the revolver.

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NitroX
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: lancaster]
#376660 - 12/05/23 03:00 PM

Did you watch the video?

I think a great many handgun owners would still have a revolver or three?

If I was hiking or fishing or as a camp back up weapon in grizzly country I would want a revolver. Is a .357 adequate?

If the world goes to pot, a zombie or cannibal liberal apocalypse, as time slid towards the stone age a .357 or .44 magnum lever action and revolver would be useful.

A revolver is reliable.

I think like a SMLE .303 they would work in dusty, wet, muddy, snowy environments better than a semi auto and need far less maintenance.

23 shot magazines aren't always needed, six good well aimed shots, one, two ? are enough for most civilian self defence situations. If not spraying and praying.

AND as any cop tv show watcher knows, the old cops, the old guys, always have a revolver!

The revolver is a not irrelevant today as a double rifle is not

in the age of semi autos.

From my vast revolver "experience".

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John aka NitroX

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Edited by NitroX (27/09/23 04:00 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: NitroX]
#376662 - 12/05/23 05:53 PM

question is if revolvers are still relevant and I think no. if the gun licence is not a problem for handguns like in the us you may buy them but if you only have 2 licence free I don't know anyone here and especially younger than me buying anything else than semi auto pistols today.
revovler are for collectors and the cheap german weihrauch rimfire revolver you get today for 50 euro or less are for the hunter who want a cheap tool for shooting small game in trap or when hunting fox, badger etc. in the fox den.

do what you want, when having them or get them for next to nothing ok but when buying a new handgun the semi auto rules.

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Marrakai
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: lancaster]
#376665 - 12/05/23 11:47 PM

In Australia we rarely need firearms for anti-personnel situations unless police or military, and there is virtually no 'civilian' urban carry. The vast majority of field-carry sidearms are registered for protection against feral stock and dangerous wildlife, or used in a pastoral context, and are generally revolvers.

The reasons are simplicity, reliability in the field, more powerful chamberings, no need for high capacity, ease of shooting (including training), and safer carry.

I can't see that changing here in the foreseeable future.

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85lc
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: Marrakai]
#376667 - 13/05/23 12:37 AM

Well, I believe the choice of handguns really is a personal preference. I have carried and shot both. For me, each has its own place.

It looks like most new buyers are getting autos. That is what is shown in movies, TV, internet, video games, and in the news when they show street violence and you see 10, 15, or 20 shell cases on the ground.

Is a semi better than a revolver for personal protection? If one is being accosted and is feet away from an attacker, the handgun that can be deployed quickest is best which could be a revolver or Glock style semi. A 1911 would be slower unless you walk around with loaded, cocked & locked.

When the fight is beyond knife distance, practice and familiarity with the pistol rules. Most shooters that I have trained had trouble hitting the target at 7 yards. Of course, more shots meant the possibility of hitting something increases. The opposite side is that one or two well aimed shots is significantly better than a 15 shot spray.

For hunting and for carrying in the woods, I think a revolver is better. Of course, I have never used 15 shots to shoot a deer or rabbit.

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RB

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JHeath
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: 85lc]
#379659 - 27/09/23 05:04 AM

Scattered auto brass indicates what gun was used, where fired from, in which direction, how many shots fired etc. Not that I do anything illicit or mull on this stuff. But revolvers streamline any later explanations. Even with a defensive bear killing. If you remember it one way, and an investigator looking at scattered brass interprets it differently, there might be a costly misunderstanding.

NitroX, this is educated suggestion, not experience. But a .357 might be adequate planning for black bear. A 1600lb Kodiak bear or 600lb grizzly is a job for 12ga slugs or a .375 H&H. Think of facing a 400lb charging lion with a .357. You can get shots off almost as fast with a .41 or .44 as with a .357 so I don't see an advantage to the latter.

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DarylS
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: JHeath]
#379663 - 27/09/23 09:19 AM

I'm a wheel-gun fan. I like my Police Positive and Blackhawk .357 for plinking. The m29 is more of a business gun, for the coming apocalypse. Reminds me I need to load up some ammo for it.
Here in BC, a .357 and 10Mm are the bottom line for critter defences for those who challenge the system and are accepted.
I would rather have a higher capacity auto in 10MM than attempt to rely upon a .357 with a bear attack.
I'd rather have the .44 that either of the others, and in my meager experience with one, I would rather have a .500 S&W 5 1/2" magnum than the .44. The one I shot did very well and hitting 2 1/2" rocks at 50 yards was easy. It kicked less than my .44 loaded with 300gr. and with the round-butt grips I had on it that day.
My normal grips on the .44 make it easy to shoot.

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroX
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: DarylS]
#379677 - 27/09/23 04:09 PM

Lancaster and Marrakai's replies show legal restrictions often have strong influences on decisions.

In Europe often a limit on number of firearms. In WA here as well now, very worrying.

In Australia limits on handguns, target use only mainly, some large property use, some safari professional use, no civilian defensive use. 9mm, .38 size limit. Silhouette target shooting can have greater than 9 mm, .38.

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Hunter4752001
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: NitroX]
#379680 - 27/09/23 04:56 PM

The real question is 'for what purpose'.

For personal protection the SA is the way to go. However, developing proper skill is far more important the choice of weapon. The old shibboleth about reliability was disproved over a century ago. If you ever see the type of testing the military do before selecting a new handgun, you'll quickly realise why revolvers don't get a look in. Well designed service style SA have far fewer moving parts than their revolver counterparts. May not matter on a pristine shooting range, but is certainly the case down in the weeds.

If your requirement is for a hunting handgun, then the revolver is the way to go. Capable of handling significantly heavier projectiles at much higher loads. Mine is a 454 Casull pushing a 300g projectile. Additionally, of those African countries that allow handgun hunting, the laws generally excluded autos.

A different consideration for defence against large predators such as Brown Bear etc. In general the situation would be that you are doing something else, eg fishing, jogging,field dressing game etc, when the incident occurs and you need to react. I think it comes down to an individual choice. What are you most familiar with and what can you get into action instinctively. Are you a revolver person or an auto person? Much as I like a big bore revolver for hunting, I know I'm more instinctive with a Glock and so I'd be looking seriously at a 10mm, despite the limited power. Many revolver shooters would go for a 44 Mag or larger. The other consideration is that a long barrelled big bore revolver left at home isn't much use. You want something convenient enough to be with you 24/7.

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degoins
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: Hunter4752001]
#379734 - 30/09/23 01:43 AM

Absolutely relevant to me. I've NEVER had a stove pipe or any other failure with a revolver. I've had some .22 ammo not fire, but just pull the trigger again and move on. cant do that with a semi auto...and I do own a couple.

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JHeath
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: degoins]
#379823 - 04/10/23 10:48 AM

I have had autopistols including 1911s with ball ammo stovepipe, fail to feed, etc. That's never happened with a revolver.

Military "reliability" is not the same as what we need. The military needs pistols for 500,000 guys, each guy is expendable, and drops his pistol in the mud, crawls in the sand etc. And if the pistol stops sometimes, well that's combat. And the military doesn't want to train 10,000 armorers to time revolvers and hand fit parts.

Like the military is better served by arming 2,000,000 guys with 5.56 and 7.62x39 bullet hoses. Not by handing out .375 Model 70 Super Grades. But which is a better solution in Alaska or Africa?

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Rule303
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: JHeath]
#379840 - 05/10/23 09:21 AM

I have read many of the tests conducted on the Glock and other semi autos and revolvers. Guess which three had no or the least amount of fail to fire episodes. Colt 1911, Browning Hi Power and Glock. Yes even the revolvers in these tests failed at some point. From what I can see the revolver failings were due to foreign matter getting into the system and preventing the cylinder to rotate properly or impeding the hammer strike. Are hunters, hikers, fishers likely to have their revolver go through mud, sand etc. Most probably not.

The next thing to bear in mind is if you need to reload a revolver it is slower and more prone to clumsiness unless you practice, practice and more practice. Would you need more than 5 or 6 rounds for a bear attack, I'd say most probably not.

Now remember I am not in bear country but my preferred option would be a 4 inch Revolver in 44 magnum. Yes I have owned and shot a 44 mag but with a 7"? barrel and shot a full house loads from a 44 Derringer, not recommended

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Bindi2
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: Rule303]
#379844 - 05/10/23 10:51 AM

As a competition shooter i use revolvers. Speed loaders are just as quick as mag drops. I don't get stove pipes, dud primers rarely, just keep going.

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DarylS
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: Bindi2]
#379850 - 05/10/23 01:48 PM

Rule303, the 4" M29 S&W recoils almost straight back, with very little muzzle flip.
You feel the concussion on the chest, quite different from the longer barrels. Even the 6" and earlier 6 1/2" have muzzle flip, whereas the 8 3/8" really seems to climb.
I've shot mine with full power loads many times in timed and rapid fire courses.
Unlike Jerry Mickeluk, it took me 7 or 8 seconds to get off 12 rounds.
When it was legal, I always carried 2 speed loaders, giving me 18 rounds total.

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroX
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: DarylS]
#379857 - 05/10/23 06:10 PM

I always picture a nice revolver as a hunting or bush handgun.

A semi auto as a human self defence or military handgun.

Just my mental picture. But based on reading,others experiences. I don't pretend to have anything but newbie handgun experience.

Revolvers absolutely continue to be relevant

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroX
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: NitroX]
#379858 - 05/10/23 06:25 PM

Regarding the reliability of a revolver vs semi auto, I always thought a revolver is reputable far more reliable.

Yes military do use semi autos. Far higher cartridge capacity in a SA magazine.

Military personnel if disciplined are also expected to diligently and regularly clean their semi auto handguns.

Military handguns are very much a self defence, emergency weapon.

A revolver is simpler to use. And safer. No safety. And the hammer on an empty chamber is very safe to carry.

I really can't see a semi auto being more reliable than a good revolver.

However, for non animal use, I'd carry a semi auto.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (05/10/23 06:30 PM)

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Bindi2
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: NitroX]
#379860 - 05/10/23 07:03 PM

After watching our local police do their annual handgun training with Glocks.
I have seen ground hits within 1M of their feet all along the 25m range up through the target through the bay number on top of the frame into the top of the Butt and off into the never never. And i haven't mentioned the ADs.
At least in the days of the revolvers they didn't fire so many unaimed shots or have ADs.

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NitroX
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: Bindi2]
#379863 - 05/10/23 09:39 PM

Quote:

After watching our local police do their annual handgun training with Glocks.
I have seen ground hits within 1M of their feet all along the 25m range up through the target through the bay number on top of the frame into the top of the Butt and off into the never never. And i haven't mentioned the ADs.
At least in the days of the revolvers they didn't fire so many unaimed shots or have ADs.

Ha ha. Same in SA. The cops that shoot well are those interested in firearms and shooting, dhoot as a sport and/of practice. Most are probably frightened of guns.

The local cops used to practice in a quarry on a farm block of mine. That stopped decades ago, when the quarry operator destroyed all their target frames with his grader. So long ago they used the .380 ACP semi autos, some .357 revolvers. I always wanted to visit when they were popping away but never did. Might have seen if they can't hit anything,or could?

I can't see how people can't hit a target at 5,7, 10, 15 metres etc, even missing the whole paper target. I can throw a stone or a spear better than that. Speed drawing, yes, more difficult, but at close range recently I wasn't even consciously aiming, at the man shadow target speed shooting, as it's so easy shooting centre of body mass.

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Rule303
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: Bindi2]
#379865 - 05/10/23 09:46 PM

Quote:

After watching our local police do their annual handgun training with Glocks.
I have seen ground hits within 1M of their feet all along the 25m range up through the target through the bay number on top of the frame into the top of the Butt and off into the never never. And i haven't mentioned the ADs.
At least in the days of the revolvers they didn't fire so many unaimed shots or have ADs.

That comes back to their trainers/instructors. Does not matter the Police Force you have good, bad and indifferent instructors. The good ones work with the bad shots to bring them up to speed, if time permits. I know in the AFP if you fail your qualification shoot there is no reshoot. Firearm is removed from you and back to basics until you can qualify. However 25 to 30 years ago I agree with your observations.

Yes speed loader can be as quick as a mag change but as I said to do that without looking under stress require lots of practice. With a S&W Model 10 I was damn near as quick as I am with a Glock/Browning Hi power mag change.

It, for most people, is harder to hit near point of aim at 25+meters with a semi than a revolver, at least that is my observation.

Like John I would prefer a semi auto for protection from 2 legged types and a revolver for 4 legged types.

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Bindi2
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: Rule303]
#379869 - 05/10/23 10:47 PM

Double tap with a revolver is faster and more accurate than a semi. I have watched some serious fast semi shooters but they couldn't match the first two shots of the really skilled revolver shooters.
I watched a young bloke from the NT go prone and hit 6 plates in 2 seconds firing 3 shots before he hit the deck. Amazing stuff he was a freak . He wasn't awarded the time even though the plate was on the way down. The stopper was square cut not angled which meant the plate had to be more than half way down before the stopper/lock missed the plate.
You are right about the trainers/training. But some people should never be armed or used in those areas. Also there is little to no thought given to the fact some handguns are way to big for some hand sizes.

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NitroX
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: Bindi2]
#379871 - 05/10/23 11:40 PM

Quote:

Also there is little to no thought given to the fact some handguns are way to big for some hand sizes.

True. My sister in law had trouble with her Police service revolver during training, years ago. Found the trigger hard to pull. I'm guessing double action trigger pull. Would affect accurate shooting for sure.

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poprivit
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: NitroX]
#379873 - 06/10/23 02:42 AM

I have hunted Zim and South Africa with my S&W 500. One stink bull giraffe; one lion shot end to end. Would NEVER attempt that with a semi - even a Desert Eagle.

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DarylS
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: poprivit]
#379874 - 06/10/23 03:11 AM

My riot team were all pretty good shots. They all liked shooting free ammo & we did that a lot. Some would stay on the range instead of going off to a restaurant for the lunch hour.
For the ones who stayed, it was a full hour of shooting- all DA with out 6" Model 10's. Most of this shooting was at steel - a rack of 6 plates at 10yards, and single steel plates out to 100yards. All shooting was single action (SA)
My favourite revolver was one of the Model 50's (.38/44 Outdoorsman) left over from the early days. We had 2 of those big .44 frame .38's and they were a pleasure to shoot. I shot a lot of feral cats with the M50 during night shift working prowl (outside grounds). The .44 made a LOT more noise, but of course, was more effective. I used 180gr. Sierra Hollow Cavity bullets in it, loaded to 1,430fps.
After we lost the M50's (removed from Corrections for destruction(yeah, right), I polished up a couple 6" M10's for Don and I. Don B. was the other instructor.
These were super smooth and easy to shoot "possibles" with. We (Corrections) only shot 5, 10, 15 and 25 yards, but in the Force (RCMP) we shot, 7, 15, 25 and 50yards in the course of fire with 5" M10's. All of our shooting in Corrections was double action, no SA allowed. In the Force, we usually shot 25 barricade and 50yards prone, SA.
I have a Colt Police Positive .38 and it's DA pull is the sweetest I have ever shot. The sights never move as the sear 'breaks' and fires the shot.
All modern revolvers are safe with all 6 cylinders loaded (more if they have them).

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Bindi2
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Re: Are Revolvers still relevant? [Re: DarylS]
#379877 - 06/10/23 01:36 PM

DarylS
As you indicate it is all about practice lots of practice. I started with 19s moved to 586/686 all smoothed. Used a N briefly not a fan. Had a play with Colts, Dan Wesson and Ruger's .. The S & W Just did it for me.
The Ruger single six in 22rf i found to be a very good draw first shot fired trainer.

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