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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag.
#364646 - 16/04/22 02:26 AM

Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag.

We settle the 10mm vs 44 Mag. debate—and wreck our hands in the process

BY JOHN B. SNOW | PUBLISHED APR 14, 2022 1:07 PM

https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/10mm-vs...L44l7lPfwANochI

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3DogMike
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#364647 - 16/04/22 04:12 AM

Noted with interest that the writer did not test either one with available "real" bear defense loads (ie Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman or similar).

- Mike

--------------------
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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: 3DogMike]
#364648 - 16/04/22 05:14 AM

Quote:

Noted with interest that the writer did not test either one with available "real" bear defense loads (ie Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman or similar).

- Mike

Agreed.. BUT, I do know someone who did.. Phil Shoemaker out of Alaska.. with a 9mm .. buffalo bore 147 gr --killed a charging sow griz at very close proximity..

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/...ith-9mm-pistol/

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (16/04/22 05:15 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#364650 - 16/04/22 09:22 AM

Rifled 12 bore 24" bl. Mossy - Challenger Ammo - 496gr. Gualandi @ 1,610fps - my bear defense round.
Can't carry, so the article & the video while interesting, was of little import here.
If I could, I would carry my 4" M29, thanks.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: DarylS]
#364653 - 16/04/22 12:10 PM

Quote:

Rifled 12 bore 24" bl. Mossy - Challenger Ammo - 496gr. Gualandi @ 1,610fps - my bear defense round.
Can't carry, so the article & the video while interesting, was of little import here.
If I could, I would carry my 4" M29, thanks.

What a pathetic world in which we live in certain areas, IMHO.. Can't carry a handgun in the bush for self protection....

So wrong in so many ways..

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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260rem
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Reged: 16/04/06
Posts: 757
Loc: NSW Australia

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#364658 - 16/04/22 10:08 PM

Try living in a country where you can't own anything for the purpose of self defence, let alone using a handgun outside of a range.
I know I would still choose a 44mag, I can guarantee you when a bear was charging I wouldn't feel any recoil.
I like the revolver because it is, simpler and nothing ever goes wrong with them unless they are very badly maintained. Good for all weather and all conditions.
I know, modern autos are reliable but in extreme conditions I'd still feel safer with a good revolver, and if you find yourself stuck for whatever reason you can still hunt well with it.

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: 260rem]
#364666 - 17/04/22 01:18 AM

Quote:

Try living in a country where you can't own anything for the purpose of self defence, let alone using a handgun outside of a range.-- NO THANK YOU...

--
I know I would still choose a 44mag, I can guarantee you when a bear was charging I wouldn't feel any recoil... == AGREE --also my choice.. and yes, I would be more likely to feel the soiling of my pants vs the recoil..

--
I like the revolver because it is, simpler and nothing ever goes wrong with them unless they are very badly maintained. Good for all weather and all conditions.
I know, modern autos are reliable but in extreme conditions I'd still feel safer with a good revolver, and if you find yourself stuck for whatever reason you can still hunt well with it.

--

I have to admit, after seeing Phil's results with the 9mm and the energy the 10mm puts out in Buffalo Bore ammo.. I feel a lot more safe with a 10mm in hand in Griz country than I used to.. NO ONE I KNOW has more experience than Phil when it comes to big bears..

The 10mm is perfectly capable of taking deer sized game.. especially with the correct ammo..

I currently own 3- 10mm handguns.. but, own at least 5 or 6 --44 mags, along with a 454 Casull, so, in my books, the 44 mag is still the most popular..

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39178
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#364670 - 17/04/22 01:58 AM

Yeah we tested bear handguns for best defence on stationary paper targets .... Are they for real? Wtf?

As for the light 44 revolver, no one shoots a gun well if they are afraid of it ..

Why aren't .357 mag revolvers used?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
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NitroX
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#364671 - 17/04/22 02:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Rifled 12 bore 24" bl. Mossy - Challenger Ammo - 496gr. Gualandi @ 1,610fps - my bear defense round.
Can't carry, so the article & the video while interesting, was of little import here.
If I could, I would carry my 4" M29, thanks.

What a pathetic world in which we live in certain areas, IMHO.. Can't carry a handgun in the bush for self protection.... So wrong in so many ways..

Yep Australia as well.

Some "cowboys" can carry a handgun. Not for self defence. But for putting down injured cows. The assumption is they can't carry a rifle.

One of our Aussie PHs on NE used to legally be able to carry a handgun. For last ditch self defence against wild bovines.was not allowed to hunt with it.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: NitroX]
#364672 - 17/04/22 02:04 AM

In bear country I would carry what I had access to.

I still think a .58 Snider howdah pistol would be very useful. ???

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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DarylS
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: NitroX]
#364675 - 17/04/22 02:33 AM

Quote:

Yeah we tested bear handguns for best defence on stationary paper targets .... Are they for real? Wtf?

As for the light 44 revolver, no one shoots a gun well if they are afraid of it ..

Why aren't .357 mag revolvers used?

The .357 question is a good one. Here in BC, perhaps not any more, but trappers and big game guides could get permits to carry a handgun for defense against dangerous animals. The "dangerous animal" being bears.

The minimum was .357 factory ammo level FPE, & they included the 10mm auto with it.
Most testing (there is a "test" performed by selected individuals) to access the skill of the licensee, however when the person is seeking license to use a .357, .38 SPL ammo is allowed, 10mm - 10S&W is allowed(not sure how that can work), .44 mag., .44 Spl. ammo is allowed and with .454 Casul, .45 Colt is allowed - by some testers. The gvt. allows this, but says one stage of the testing must be done with full powdered ammo.
I was selected by the club to test a local person, but told him he had to use full power ammo. He was 'tested" by the "other" local guy, bit of a dick, who allows the use of weak ammo.
I figure that a fellow should be able to & have to shoot what he's going to use.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: NitroX]
#364684 - 17/04/22 10:23 AM

Quote:

Yeah we tested bear handguns for best defence on stationary paper targets .... Are they for real? Wtf? quote]

I guess I don't understand your first question above??

Handguns are not the nest choice but they do work..and proven to work every hear..

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260rem
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Reged: 16/04/06
Posts: 757
Loc: NSW Australia

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#364685 - 17/04/22 01:49 PM

I'd still rather a 357mag revolver with the buffalo bore ammunition if I could get it then a 10mm auto.
I would just feel more reassured in a harsh climate and conditions like that with a wheel gun then an auto.

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#364690 - 17/04/22 04:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Yeah we tested bear handguns for best defence on stationary paper targets .... Are they for real? Wtf? quote]

I guess I don't understand your first question above??

Handguns are not the nest choice but they do work..and proven to work every hear..

They tested handguns on whether they are good bear self defence guns ... By shooting stationary paper targets.

I'm going to do a conclusive test of big bore rifles by shooting a bunch of paper targets .... How ridiculous does that sound?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroX
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: 260rem]
#364691 - 17/04/22 04:34 PM

Quote:

I'd still rather a 357mag revolver with the buffalo bore ammunition if I could get it then a 10mm auto.
I would just feel more reassured in a harsh climate and conditions like that with a wheel gun then an auto.

I remember reading an article analysing thecresults of a considerable number of bear attacks and it seemed concludable that almost any handgun was beneficial. If the user could actually shoot it and hit the bear. The bear attack wascthen far more survivable. The thread is here on NE somewhere.

African Hunter magazine did elephant skull / elephant testing and found the .357 penetrated the best.

Completely from the armchair ! I think a decent .357 in a usuable revolver would becfar better than some light .44 mag one is scared of shooting.

I'm sure shooting paper targets would confirm !!! Ha ha.

Btw John B. Snow? Is that a pen name?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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260rem
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Reged: 16/04/06
Posts: 757
Loc: NSW Australia

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: NitroX]
#364698 - 17/04/22 05:11 PM

I've never placed that much faith in paper targets, or gongs for that matter.

I would rather hunt some pigs with a handgun for a more realistic approach to a real live situation.
When I bought my 1st 375H&H and 458lott I practiced on rabbits, I figured any range I could take a rabbit out with them at then I could definitely take something bigger at.
I did the same with my bows, a rabbit is definitely the size of a, kill zone on a pig or deer let alone anything bigger so they make the perfect if sometimes mess real world targets.
Crows work too, if you can hit a crow then you can hit the vitals on big game, and hitting a crow with a 485lott is a great way to make them disappear in a cloud of feathers.

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: NitroX]
#364720 - 18/04/22 04:38 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I'd still rather a 357mag revolver with the buffalo bore ammunition if I could get it then a 10mm auto.
I would just feel more reassured in a harsh climate and conditions like that with a wheel gun then an auto.

I remember reading an article analysing thecresults of a considerable number of bear attacks and it seemed concludable that almost any handgun was beneficial. If the user could actually shoot it and hit the bear. The bear attack wascthen far more survivable. The thread is here on NE somewhere.

African Hunter magazine did elephant skull / elephant testing and found the .357 penetrated the best.

Completely from the armchair ! I think a decent .357 in a usuable revolver would becfar better than some light .44 mag one is scared of shooting.

I'm sure shooting paper targets would confirm !!! Ha ha.

Btw John B. Snow? Is that a pen name?

I am not sure why those guys were scared or felt the recoil abusive from that lightweight ..I have the exact same model I carry with me a lot..have shot buffalo bore out if it..while the recoil is no doubt stout..it's hardly something to fear..

I remember that article in the effectiveness of handguns on bears..I also remember the article stating the .357 was the most frequently used caliber on bears..which surprised me..if I remember correctly, I or Daryl had posted that..Agree a good hard cast bullet out of a .357 is a formidable weapon..if given the choice. I'll stick take the .44 Mag

As to trustworthy of a revolver vs a semi-auto..I have never had a glock fail..ever..in fact I have a good friend who worked for a branch of the gov who was given the task of attempting a model 19 Glock to not fire under normal to adverse day to day conditions..Was given all one ammo and one month..he never got it to not fire...sounds unbelievable I admit..but he has nothing to gain by lying..and is not a huge Glock fan..plus I trust him...so take that for what it's worth..

Having said all that, I still prefer a big revolver in griz country than a semi myself

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NitroX
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#364729 - 18/04/22 05:26 PM

I'll also certainly get a .357 revolver one day.

I'd love a .45 Colt. Might have to join a western type shooting club to get one. And probably need to shoot some sort of metal silhouette targets, needed to justify greater than 9mm, .38 here in SA. AV.44 mag might be possible for the same?

I don't like the attitude of a specialist gun for emergencies.it goes against the grain and lesson that when thecshit hits, you'd better be familiar with what you want to use. When I have had minor emergencies, a big deer "charge" me! Not really hevran uphill pass me. I fumbled reloading my .30-06. I have double discharged my .450 facing elephant the first. Not good. But the triggers were an issue, since fixed. My .375's magazine needs to reloaded by pushing cartridges in backwards and down. I am aware of this. JB wasn't and in the heat of a hunt he had trouble recharging the magazine. Not his fault, I should have instructed him better. He wasn't familiar with my rifle.

So the point is, be familiar and experienced with ones weapons for self defence. In this case a handgun for bears.

As 260 says, practice with a firearm in ferals is great practice. Of course handguns can't be used for such, but that would be great practice.

One thing I find unusual in these bear discussions is the spray and pray attitude. That's the gist of the semi auto vs .44 revolver argument, isn't it? Those big bad bears come so fast, one had to pray and fire as many times as one can! Interesting when one talks about safari firearms, the opposite is the norm. If facing charging lion, one of two effective shots. Leopard, hope for the best! Buffalo, adequate power, accurate placement. Elephant, brain shot, massive power.

Not, "we need a semi auto, pull the trigger as often as possible, pray you buy something !!!! "

Of course completely from my leather armchair.

But any decent handgun is better than a spraycan. A revolver is more reliable than a semi auto. A .44 Mag or similar, is the big bore rifle equivalent. And being familiar with the SD firearm is essential.

Just academic for me, as I'll be lucky if I ever encounter bears seriously many times. I was in a Transylvanian forest once where there are 90 of so brown bears. No one was armed. Yes I did think about the lack.

By the way just enjoying the discussion. Nothing here serious for me.

And yes a big brown bear up close would be a scary experience.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (18/04/22 05:30 PM)

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: NitroX]
#364734 - 18/04/22 11:24 PM

More discussion material..

https://www.fieldandstream.com/best-brown-bear-and-grizzly-cartridges/

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DarylS
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Posts: 26479
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#364738 - 19/04/22 03:07 AM

I've been shooting model 29 S&W 4" since 1973. This is my 3rd .44 Mag. & have had it since 1979.
The "instructor/qualification" officer, then Cpl. Len Grinnel allowed me to use my m29 to shoot our yearly qualification round. That's the first and last time I was able to ace the course 300/300 but would not give me the Crown over crossed revolvers as I had earlier failed to do that with the issue .38. At that time, I was shooting a 275gr. SWC from an Ohaus 4-cavity mould with 21gr. Herc. 2400. These were full power 1,240fps loads & I thought nothing of the recoil then, nor do I today. I still have and use that mould today, however my load has changed, to 17.0gr. AL7 for 1,210fps. Good shooting load in the 4" bl.
I would like a 4 5/8" .45 Colt Ruger, but that will likely never happen with the current state of affairs.
I do have the Ruger Blackhawk with 4 5/8" bl. that I bought in 1974. I sold it to my old Beaufighter Pilot cousin, then reacquired it when he passed in 2003/4.
It's a really good shooting handgun - accurate and easy to shoot accurately. I use a 150gr. SWC from a DC Lee mould mostly in it as well as the SWC 168gr. Keith bullet, but with GC.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroX
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#364749 - 19/04/22 01:33 PM

Quote:

More discussion material..

https://www.fieldandstream.com/best-brown-bear-and-grizzly-cartridges/

Some good comments after the in article advertising.

Other Considerations for Hunting Grizzlies

The above is, I realize, a short list, and that is not an accident. We’re talking about a very specialized type of hunting. In addition to cartridges, here are some other considerations:

Do not, I pray you, single-load your bear rifle when you sight it in and practice with it. (You are going to practice with it, aren’t you?) A great many bolt-action rifles do not feed worth a barrel of Old Hog Sh*t, and you want to find out in advance if yours is among them. Fill the magazine and see if it cycles.

Similarly, make sure your floorplate doesn’t pop open, since heavy recoil causes bolt-actions to flex through the action. A friend of mine shot a grizzly that was uphill from him, which was a mistake because bears frequently roll, and when it came to a stop only a few yards away and Jack pulled the trigger a second time, he got the click of an empty chamber because his other three rounds were in the tall grass at his feet. He remembered thinking, “Emma [his wife] is going to miss me.” But the bear died before things got any worse. At the minimum, tape your floorplate shut, or have a gunsmith pin it shut.

Keep your reloads where you can get at them. Ursine disputes are not always settled in three shots. You don’t want to discover that your ammo is buried beneath four layers of clothes and your chest waders.

Never, ever, shoot a large-caliber bear just once. This should be a standard practice with any dangerous game. Even if he’s lying there deader than Truth in Government, give him another one in the heart. The taxidermist can patch the holes in the hide. The doctor may not be able to patch the holes in you if he gets up and decides to get even.

Never, ever, walk up on a downed bear with an empty rifle. Reload. Be ready. Approach it from an angle where it can’t see you.

Forget about long shots. If you want to try a 300-yarder at one of these animals, your guide will offer to take you to the airfield and refund your money.

Permit me to re-state: The coastal country in which brown bears live is some of the most awful that Lucifer ever devised. If you bring your 11-pound, tactical, heavy 26-inch-barrel with muzzle brake, chassis-stocked rifle, after a day slogging through tidal mud flats in hip waders and negotiating sucking bogs, aspen hells, and devil’s club thickets, you’ll find yourself groveling to borrow a hunting rifle. Warren Page’s .35 Mashburn had a 20-inch Mannlicher-stocked barrel and weighed 8 pounds, 2 ounces. You could carry it all day.

Quote:

This is for grizzlies, not brown bears.

Why?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: NitroX]
#364750 - 19/04/22 03:01 PM

Not sure... Buy found this..

https://www.wildrevelation.com/the-difference-between-grizzly-brown-and-kodiak-bears/

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#364751 - 19/04/22 04:14 PM

Same species. Just different sizes based on the location and sources of food. Armchair expertise.

Can't see why that makes a huge difference for cartridge choice? A .30-06 won't suddenly kill a brown bear? Or was it grizzly?

So many many useful cartridges missed out from the "7", I guess because advertising not paid for them!

A very obvious choice, the Euro 9.3x62. And the American .338/06.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Rod4861
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Loc: Queensland, Australia

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: NitroX]
#364754 - 19/04/22 07:57 PM

Quote:

Same species. Just different sizes based on the location and sources of food. Armchair expertise.

Can't see why that makes a huge difference for cartridge choice? A .30-06 won't suddenly kill a brown bear? Or was it grizzly?

So many many useful cartridges missed out from the "7", I guess because advertising not paid for them!

A very obvious choice, the Euro 9.3x62. And the American .338/06.

When you’re in the alders and devils club looking for your shot bear you’ll soon understand why a 30/06 may seem a tad light.

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260rem
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Posts: 757
Loc: NSW Australia

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Rod4861]
#364759 - 19/04/22 08:54 PM

If I was, hunting bear and moose often then I'd go a 9.3x62 or 74R, very mild recoil with plenty of punch and penetration.
I'd still be happy with my 30/06 but if I was in thick country after a, bear I'd want more then one shot.

--------------------
One shot is all you need.

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NitroX
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Rod4861]
#364764 - 20/04/22 01:35 AM

Quote:

When you’re in the alders and devils club looking for your shot bear you’ll soon understand why a 30/06 may seem a tad light.

True. I think my .404 is preferable.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: NitroX]
#364765 - 20/04/22 01:47 AM

Quote:

Same species. Just different sizes based on the location and sources of food. Armchair expertise.

Can't see why that makes a huge difference for cartridge choice? A .30-06 won't suddenly kill a brown bear? Or was it grizzly?

So many many useful cartridges missed out from the "7", I guess because advertising not paid for them!

A very obvious choice, the Euro 9.3x62. And the American .338/06.

As is often the case.. a LOT of info in these articles are a bit overstated, IMHO.. there is no reason an '06 with the correct bullet and placement won't do the job and do it well.. However, I hunted mine as a offer after I was on a do-it-yourself caribou hunt.. So, borrowed his fathers 375H&H.. grabbed a group of mixed manufacturers ammo out of an old cigar box and went hunting..

IF the bear is wounded and you have to go in after him.. I personally would want as big of a firearm as available.. They are big and nasty.. one hit will and has killed many of individuals.. The guide I was with at the time told me his buddy had gotten killed guiding a client the year before..

I have a lot of friends and acquaintances who have used 7mmRem Mag for them . and '06.. with no issues whatsoever..

Pretty much its all in whatever your comfortable with.. In Africa I feel better with my .416Rems than I do with one of my 458Win's.. each to their own..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (20/04/22 03:59 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#364769 - 20/04/22 02:34 AM

I packed a .458 2" for years. 400gr. @ 2,150fps, 350's at 2,296fps or 500's as 2,060fps as I hunted moose in grizzly country. Never saw a grizzly while hunting, yet when out looking for fire starter (paper birch bark) trees, in one morning, I saw 6. Go figure. LOL 2 of those were 1st year cubs, with momma. I was packing my .458 Alaskan that day, didn't have to use it. 400gr. @ 2,400fps.
Go figure.
Now, when I go out into the bush, I pack the '06, or more likely, a 12 bore rifle.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Rod4861
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: DarylS]
#364770 - 20/04/22 08:35 AM

He's my limited experience with Brown bear hunting and even less experience with handguns suitable for brown bear.

I've hunted brown bears on 3 occasions.

The first trip was in the Alaska ranges hunting for a Grizz/inland brown bear.......never saw a bear. Not a single bear in over 16 days hunting. The country was open and I was mainly after a Dall, moose and BG caribou. I carried my R8 in 30/06....Federal premium ammunition loaded with the Nosler 180 partition. I didn't feel underpinned for anything.

My guide carried either a Remington 700 in either 30/06 or 308. He told me that he had shot scores of bears with both the 30/06 and 308 over the last 40 odd years. He only ever hunted in the middle of the state. He had a Ruger Blackhawk which lived in camp. He told me that was what he carried when packing out large loads of meat.

My next trip , also in the Alaska Ranges. Saw outfitter, same location, different guide(Geoff). Saw 2 x bears. One was a sow with cubs the other a mature male....about 6'6". Got to about 120 yards from him. Could have shot him...but he was not what I wanted. That was the first bear that I saw up reasonably close. I was impressed and even more impressed when I saw how fast he could run over tundra and through the bush. Bloody awesome. My guide carried a Colt 1911 in 10mm. Not sure what load. I got the impression that the sidearm was more for use against unruly clients than bears. ha ha....I think.

Next year. different area. Alaska Peninsular...costal brown bear....could see Kodiak Island from the cliffs. Bush was as thick as hell in places...introduced to devil club and alders by the ton. Saw a lot of big bears. Guided by Geoff. This time he carried a CZ 550 in 416 Rigby. Iron sights. No handgun. I carried my R8 but with the 9.3 x 62 barrel. Norma PH 286 grain factory ammo.

Shot my bear on the side of a mountain at about 60 yards...give or take 10. First shot dropped him and then emptied the mag into him. Stood and watched him for about 10 minutes after the last shot to make sure he was dead. Then we, had to crawl under and through about 50 yards of alders, on the side of a mountain to reach the bear. I could smell him from about 12 feet out. Could smell him before I saw him. When I first saw him I was on my knees.

It was an adventure.

From my limited experience....Grizzly inland brown bears are very impressive and where I hunted the country was more open and shots would have been longer. A 30/06 would be fine. For Costal Brown bears....they are HUGE and very, very impressive. For where I hunted the scrub was like NZ monkey scrub, terrain was steep, shots would generally be closer...under 100 yards. I found the 9.3 x 62 just about perfect.

Also, R8 nah sayers please note, that the magazine did not fall out, the rifle did not jam, there were 4 rounds in the magazine and that the magazine did not need to be removed to replenish.

back on track: both guides said that they had never had to use a handgun on a bear. Saw other guides and US clients packing S&W 500, 454 and .44 magnum....but only when hauling meat and or sitting in camp.

Edited by Rod4861 (20/04/22 12:09 PM)

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Ripp
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Rod4861]
#364782 - 21/04/22 01:24 PM

I had a similar but a bit different experience..

We saw the tracks along a creek coming in from both directions to eat the salmon in one of the deep pools in the creek..SO, we built a tree stand using only ropes vs nails to eliminate noise.. We got into the tree stand around 330PM and around 520 here he come along the creek.. the first time I laid my eyes on him I said HOLY SHIT he is big..

.. when he got broadside I pulled the trigger on the .375H&H.. he dropped and immediately popped back up with a loud roar and biting at the area behind his front let where I hit him.. he started to run off the direction he come.. by then I had another in the chamber and was ready to shoot again when the guide shot with his .458W mag with a muzzle break .. which caused me to loose focus on my shot.. guide missed as he has his scope secured with 2 screws missing but instead was using duct tape

.. just as the bear was entering the timber I was able to get another raking shot off into him.. he was hit good twice..

We waited a bit and started walking into the incredibly thick timber with very high grass and foilage..literally could see no further than 10 to 15 feet.. after a bit in the guide whistled to me and pointed to go back out.. once out he told me his buddy got killed the previous year doing the exact same thing.. he suggested we wait until morning and bring another gun with us..which is what we did..

The following morning the guide, the cook and myself walked 3 abreast into the thick cover.. when we got about 25 feet past where we had quit the previous night we found a bed the bear had been laying in.. based on the blood sign, he was facing us when he was laying there.. SO, good idea we turned around that night or it would have certainly gone very western quicly.. ultimately we found him dead about another 100 yards up the creek.. he was using mud to plug his holes.. he as a 9ft squared bear..NOT a monster but not a cub either..

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Ripp
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#364783 - 21/04/22 01:25 PM

Although I am NOT a Taurus fan.. here is their version of a bear gun..

https://www.petersenshunting.com/editorial/taurus-raging-hunter-460/455682

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260rem
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#364784 - 21/04/22 06:08 PM

Actually just thinking about it I'd definitely take my 30/06 after one, if he went down in thick cover that wouldn't be a problem as I'd be hunting with a guide.
He would earn his pay going in after it while I sat outside and waited for the all clear.

But back on topic, in what situation would you need a handgun for bear defence?
As near as I could figure I'd only have one around camp or if I was fishing ect.
Any time I was hunting you would presumably have a rifle with you, and even a 308win will out perform any handgun out there.

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DarylS
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: 260rem]
#364797 - 22/04/22 02:58 AM

When timber cruising laying out cut blocks or checking timber cut blocks - checking tree planting plots gets an 'inspector' injured or killed, now and then.
Also, when fishing salmon streams, a heavy handgun at the side would feel "encouraging".
Hiking in the bush, a handgun would be nice insurance and lighter & handier than a shotgun.

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Daryl

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Ripp
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: DarylS]
#364799 - 22/04/22 03:26 AM

Quote:

When timber cruising laying out cut blocks or checking timber cut blocks - checking tree planting plots gets an 'inspector' injured or killed, now and then.
Also, when fishing salmon streams, a heavy handgun at the side would feel "encouraging".
Hiking in the bush, a handgun would be nice insurance and lighter & handier than a shotgun.

Bowhunting is the biggest reason in my area..or checking fences on a ranch.. or hiking/backpacking to a high mtn summer lake to go fishing.. lots of reasons really.. these are just a few..

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260rem
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#364804 - 22/04/22 09:58 AM

See aside from the bow hunting and the hiking the odds of encountering a bear in thick country is somewhat less.
That would generally give you more time to be ready, so rate of fire of a handgun is less important then being able to do some serious damage.
That to me makes the 44mag still on the top.
In most cases if I was just checking things ect I'd rather have a rifle or a shotgun.
There's just that much more reassurance with a long gun, no problem at all if you choose to carry a handgun but much as with a rifle carrying the biggest gun you can accurately shoot is still the best choice.
Looking at all the choices out there a Kentucky Ballistics Derringer in 45/70 would be my pick for serious bear defence.
It's a bit like a big bore double rifle for dangerous game, you might only have two shots and a lot of recoil but when your life is on the line that much power will save your life, small, light and absolutely deadly especially in very close quarters.
Although admittedly that's a hell of a lot of recoil for most people in most situations. I just believe that what you hit something with is more important then how many times you hit it.

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DarylS
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: 260rem]
#364805 - 22/04/22 12:50 PM

The .45/70 Derringer is a joke, imho. There is no way to get a decent second shot. Takes 2 hands to relocate it in your hand and cock it for the second shot.
Has anyone been able to chronograph one? I've not heard of that.
I was able to 'make' the 7 yard, 12 shots in 10 seconds with my 4" .44 Mag. with full power loads using 275gr. SWC's @ just over 1,210fps - all 10's, BTW on a B27 target.

Much better in my opinion than a 2shot derringer.

The only ctg. Derringer I have fired was a .45 Colt with full power 250gr. driven by 6.6gr. (I think was the load) of bullseye. They would likely make 500, maybe 600fps at the most, I expect from the 1" of actual bl. ahead of the ctg. mouth. The recoil stood the little gun straight up in my hand. It then takes 2 hands to get it back into your grip and cock it - oops - too late, bear's gotcha.

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroX
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: DarylS]
#364808 - 22/04/22 02:54 PM

Quote:

I was able to 'make' the 7 yard, 12 shots in 10 seconds with my 4" .44 Mag. with full power loads using 275gr. SWC's @ just over 1,210fps - all 10's, BTW on a B27 target.

Pretty impressive if including a reload.

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John aka NitroX

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NitroX
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: 260rem]
#364809 - 22/04/22 03:01 PM

Quote:

He would earn his pay going in after it while I sat outside and waited for the all clear.

While any good guide or PH will tell the client to stay out and back, it's definitely not what I would plan for ie some stranger saving your life.

If using a single shot I would want to be very familiar with it, especially fast reloads.

The guys in the old days used them. Some BGRC shooters such as Alex Beer used single shots to do very well in rapid fire, 8 shot comps, best competed on with a bolt action.

Similar to a double after two shots, same thing.

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NitroX
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: 260rem]
#364810 - 22/04/22 03:10 PM

Quote:

That would generally give you more time to be ready ...

True. But speaking from my extensive armchair expertise, I think one thing lacking in bear attacks is time to be ready. I have read where people have had a handgun, but were mailed or killed because the firearm was stowed away in a backpack nothing easy reach. Where legal, a holster on a belt sounds the best place.

I think in a camp on the belt is also a good place.

With all of this, I imagine the probability is very low of an attack. But that is small comfort of teeth are in you, or claws ripping.

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NitroX
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: NitroX]
#364812 - 22/04/22 03:15 PM

How does the good old .45 ACP 1911s go?

Not on paper, bearlike penetration and "knockdown"?

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Ripp
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: DarylS]
#364815 - 22/04/22 04:11 PM

Quote:

The .45/70 Derringer is a joke, imho. There is no way to get a decent second shot. Takes 2 hands to relocate it in your hand and cock it for the second shot.
Has anyone been able to chronograph one? I've not heard of that.
I was able to 'make' the 7 yard, 12 shots in 10 seconds with my 4" .44 Mag. with full power loads using 275gr. SWC's @ just over 1,210fps - all 10's, BTW on a B27 target.

Much better in my opinion than a 2shot derringer.

The only ctg. Derringer I have fired was a .45 Colt with full power 250gr. driven by 6.6gr. (I think was the load) of bullseye. They would likely make 500, maybe 600fps at the most, I expect from the 1" of actual bl. ahead of the ctg. mouth. The recoil stood the little gun straight up in my hand. It then takes 2 hands to get it back into your grip and cock it - oops - too late, bear's gotcha. [/quote

Agree on all accounts..the Derringer is a pos...

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NitroX
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#364816 - 22/04/22 04:21 PM

The Derringer is more of a women's thigh pistol and a bar room brawling piece. Last ditch defence against a mugger at extreme close range.

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260rem
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: NitroX]
#364817 - 22/04/22 04:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

That would generally give you more time to be ready ...

True. But speaking from my extensive armchair expertise, I think one thing lacking in bear attacks is time to be ready. I have read where people have had a handgun, but were mailed or killed because the firearm was stowed away in a backpack nothing easy reach. Where legal, a holster on a belt sounds the best place.

I think in a camp on the belt is also a good place.

With all of this, I imagine the probability is very low of an attack. But that is small comfort of teeth are in you, or claws ripping.

See that makes no sense to me, if you have a loaded handgun for protection then it needs to be holstered, putting it in a bag or something like that, even a pocket would be just plain crazy.
If you can't carry it on your belt then take a long gun even if it is more a pain in the rear if carrying a pistol isn't legal in the area your in.
Then again there's, plenty of concealed carry bags and clothing that you could use too if a holster wasn't an option.

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Ripp
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: 260rem]
#364825 - 22/04/22 10:15 PM

For holsters..this is one popular option..

https://gunfightersinc.com/kenai-chest-holster/

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DarylS
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#364833 - 23/04/22 02:34 AM

Quote:

For holsters..this is one popular option..

https://gunfightersinc.com/kenai-chest-holster/

Yes indeed. Here, for those lucky enough to get the carry permit, the gun had to be worn on the outside in a holster.

as tot he .45 ACP John. I shot 2 large black bears with mine, first was with 230gr. FMJ @ 850fps,. side head shot- dead right there.
Second was a 260gr. Speer HP, driven by 12.0gr. W630 powder made 960fps in my 5" Wilson barrel. Side shot through both lungs (missed the shoulder).
The bear walked some 30 yards, collapsed slid down a short incline (embankment) into a ditch - dead.
I am sure a heavy FN hard cast @ 950fps or so would handle a grizzly just fine.

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Daryl

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Ripp
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: DarylS]
#364843 - 23/04/22 07:12 AM

Quote:

Quote:

For holsters..this is one popular option..

https://gunfightersinc.com/kenai-chest-holster/

Yes indeed. Here, for those lucky enough to get the carry permit, the gun had to be worn on the outside in a holster.

as tot he .45 ACP John. I shot 2 large black bears with mine, first was with 230gr. FMJ @ 850fps,. side head shot- dead right there.
Second was a 260gr. Speer HP, driven by 12.0gr. W630 powder made 960fps in my 5" Wilson barrel. Side shot through both lungs (missed the shoulder).
The bear walked some 30 yards, collapsed slid down a short incline (embankment) into a ditch - dead.
I am sure a heavy FN hard cast @ 950fps or so would handle a grizzly just fine.

Agree-- no doubt the hard cast would do the job out of a 45acp..

I have 2 of those holsters.. wear one when I go fishing in Alaska often.. OF when I go hiking with my family.. or when I sneak over and visit the married neighbor lady..

KIDDING.. Friday Humor...

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NitroX
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#364922 - 26/04/22 05:43 PM

https://fb.watch/cDmUu_SQB6/

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DarylS
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: NitroX]
#364942 - 27/04/22 02:37 AM

Fairly big hide. Looked a lot larger than when it was moving. Bear size is really difficult to judge when they are standing or running in low brush.

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Daryl

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Jim_C
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: NitroX]
#365130 - 02/05/22 02:40 AM

Quote:

How does the good old .45 ACP 1911s go?

Not on paper, bearlike penetration and "knockdown"?

At contact distance, I had 6 or 7 (of 8) hot-loaded 45 acp rounds go through the body of a roughly 300# black bear. No complaints about the performance of the round, or the bullets, but cleaning the pistol was an absolute PITA.

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Rule303
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Jim_C]
#365140 - 02/05/22 09:29 AM

I have not had time to read all in this thread will come back to it. Just a point or two on Semi V revolver. Wheel guns do fuck up. I have had a couple of S&W in 38 fail to fire, fail to index correctly. Might have been maintenance, I don't know. Also one test run by a shooting magazine had numerous semi autos and one S&W. They claim the Revolver did not stuff up but it did. A fail to fire for any reason was a stuff up. In this case it was due to grit slowing the hammer down to the extent it did not strike the primer hard enough. The 3 that had no failures, Colt 1911, Browning Hi Power and Glock. They did not have a CZ75 in the test.

To me the big advantage of the wheel gun is, fail to fire pull the trigger again and should fire do not need to rack it.

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NitroX
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Rule303]
#365143 - 02/05/22 06:52 PM

Quote:

To me the big advantage of the wheel gun is, fail to fire pull the trigger again and should fire do not need to rack it.

Good point.

Ha ha sort of like a lot of tv semi auto's and autos where the actor goes click click click pulling the trigger when the magazine was empty! Must all be double actions!

But good point on that feature of a revolver. Unless the revolver cylinder is jammed.

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NitroX
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Jim_C]
#365144 - 02/05/22 06:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

How does the good old .45 ACP 1911s go?

Not on paper, bearlike penetration and "knockdown"?

At contact distance, I had 6 or 7 (of 8) hot-loaded 45 acp rounds go through the body of a roughly 300# black bear. No complaints about the performance of the round, or the bullets, but cleaning the pistol was an absolute PITA.

Thanks. Cleaning the handgun or one's pants!

Thanks for relating the experience.

The 1911 .45 ACP sounds like old reliable. Able to flatten a Moro tribesman. Or a bear at close range. One needs to be able to handle is power and recoil. And the seven round magazine is a negative. But even in Australia I read prior to banning in 2003 was the most popular handgun. I almost bought one or two once upon a time ... Alas no handgun licence at the time.

I still want one! Must find a legal way.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Edited by NitroX (02/05/22 06:59 PM)

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Ripp
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: DarylS]
#365160 - 03/05/22 12:24 AM

Quote:

Fairly big hide. Looked a lot larger than when it was moving. Bear size is really difficult to judge when they are standing or running in low brush.

To me it looked like the bear had a younger head on it... but I might (am) be a little crazy...

Saw a much bigger one this weekend.. they are out...

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NitroX
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: NitroX]
#365180 - 03/05/22 10:16 PM

Quote:

The Derringer is more of a women's thigh pistol and a bar room brawling piece. Last ditch defence against a mugger at extreme close range.

A friend of an acquaintance used to have a derringer belt buckle. In the good old days 9f the 1990s and earlier flew around thecwotld wearing it. Not for bears though.

I have one too. But mine is hollow sadly.

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Ripp
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: NitroX]
#365196 - 04/05/22 02:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The Derringer is more of a women's thigh pistol and a bar room brawling piece. Last ditch defence against a mugger at extreme close range.

A friend of an acquaintance used to have a derringer belt buckle. In the good old days 9f the 1990s and earlier flew around thecwotld wearing it. Not for bears though.

I have one too. But mine is hollow sadly.

Using a derringer for bears reminds me of an old saying around here..

You had better file the front sight off and sand the front part of that weapon if you are going to use it for bear defense.. That way it won't hurt as bad when the bear is shoving it up your rear end..

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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#365245 - 05/05/22 09:19 AM

All you really need, is a Duck.

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Ripp
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Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: NitroX]
#365261 - 05/05/22 11:38 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

How does the good old .45 ACP 1911s go?

Not on paper, bearlike penetration and "knockdown"?

At contact distance, I had 6 or 7 (of 8) hot-loaded 45 acp rounds go through the body of a roughly 300# black bear. No complaints about the performance of the round, or the bullets, but cleaning the pistol was an absolute PITA.

Thanks. Cleaning the handgun or one's pants!

Thanks for relating the experience.

The 1911 .45 ACP sounds like old reliable. Able to flatten a Moro tribesman. Or a bear at close range. One needs to be able to handle is power and recoil. And the seven round magazine is a negative. But even in Australia I read prior to banning in 2003 was the most popular handgun. I almost bought one or two once upon a time ... Alas no handgun licence at the time.

I still want one! Must find a legal way.

45 ACP's are a ton of fun.. got on a kick a few years back and bought several.. lots of fun and certainly have a punch to them on the receiving end compared to a 9mm..

Personally I like the 10mm more..

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#365267 - 06/05/22 03:49 AM

To put things into perspective.. pic of a bear killed in Montana a few years back.. AND we have the small ones...

FB_IMG_1651766460097 by A Hoffart, on Flickr

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#365268 - 06/05/22 03:50 AM

FB_IMG_1651766360121 by A Hoffart, on Flickr

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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93x64mm
.416 member

Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3972
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#365272 - 06/05/22 06:37 AM

With bears like yours Ripp, step 7 happens very quickly above if the bear get cranky!

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39178
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: 93x64mm]
#365288 - 07/05/22 12:15 AM

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26479
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: NitroX]
#365290 - 07/05/22 01:11 AM

I thought you just kicked him in the nackers. I saw that on the internet.

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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458Win
.333 member

Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: 260rem]
#365319 - 08/05/22 02:32 AM

I finally wrote up my full story on the 9mm bear incident and it's in the 2021 Gun Digest with numerous photos.
Before I carried I tested the Buffalo Bore ammo against known deep penetrating loads, including the 30 Tokarev, 357 , 44 mag and 475,Linebaugh and was confident it would work.

Power and bore diameter or great , but the ability of the shooter to make quick, multiple hits while under stress is of even more importance. Self defense , where the ability to make hits quickly while under stress, is not the same as stalking close and carefully placing a single hit on an unwary animal

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Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: 458Win]
#365321 - 08/05/22 04:06 AM

Quote:

I finally wrote up my full story on the 9mm bear incident and it's in the 2021 Gun Digest with numerous photos.
Before I carried I tested the Buffalo Bore ammo against known deep penetrating loads, including the 30 Tokarev, 357 , 44 mag and 475,Linebaugh and was confident it would work.

Power and bore diameter or great , but the ability of the shooter to make quick, multiple hits while under stress is of even more importance. Self defense , where the ability to make hits quickly while under stress, is not the same as stalking close and carefully placing a single hit on an unwary animal

Great info Phil..Thank you for sharing.

If anyone would know it would be you..

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Rule303
.416 member

Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4905
Loc: Woodford Qld

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#365329 - 08/05/22 09:51 AM

I have fired a 44Mag Derringer. It was bloody hard to hold in the hand before firing. Had to use mid finger to pull trigger. The full blown loads just about dislocated my thumb. Clean missed the target at 3 meters. Bloody slow to use.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26479
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Rule303]
#365330 - 08/05/22 10:00 AM

Derringers for anything other than a lark, are just a joke.

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26479
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: DarylS]
#365388 - 11/05/22 01:51 AM

Here's one "better" than a .44 Mag Derringer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQBbUIFIvU&ab_channel=KentuckyBallistics

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: DarylS]
#365390 - 11/05/22 02:23 AM

Was in YNP over the weekend with my family.. had a semi-auto on me the entire time.. Apendix carry.. 10MM S&W.. and felt happy I did..

We saw lots of bear tracks around on more than one of our hikes.. Its spring and bears are hungry.. Saw one black bear that was super skinny.. could see his ribs..

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26479
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#365395 - 11/05/22 06:13 AM

That's not normal, even in the spring.
May have been sickly.

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: DarylS]
#365422 - 12/05/22 03:32 AM

Quote:

That's not normal, even in the spring.
May have been sickly.

My guess as well.. and yes, skinniest spring bear I have ever seen.. brown color phase black bear..

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#365423 - 12/05/22 03:33 AM

ON THE LOOSE

US soldier killed by BEAR during training exercise on Alaska’s JBER base as troopers hunt beast...

Chris Bradford
5:34 ET, May 11 2022

https://www.the-sun.com/news/5312134/us-army-soldier-killed-bear-alaska-jber-base/

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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260rem
.375 member

Reged: 16/04/06
Posts: 757
Loc: NSW Australia

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#365438 - 12/05/22 03:30 PM

No use packing blanks in bear country.

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One shot is all you need.

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39178
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: 260rem]
#365459 - 13/05/22 11:18 PM

Did they only have blanks? I wonder if any shots were fired? Training in wild places involves dealing with the wildlife.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Ripp
.577 member

Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: NitroX]
#365473 - 14/05/22 03:15 PM

Thirteen Yards in One Second: Why You Can Never Outrun a Charging Bear

(Graphic image warning).

Bear attacks sometimes happen so quickly that there's nothing you can do to stop them—and you certainly can't run

BY TYLER FREEL | PUBLISHED MAY 13, 2022 2:00 PM

https://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/game-c...-charging-bear/

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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93x64mm
.416 member

Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3972
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: Ripp]
#365474 - 14/05/22 04:16 PM

Quote:

Thirteen Yards in One Second: Why You Can Never Outrun a Charging Bear

(Graphic image warning).

Bear attacks sometimes happen so quickly that there's nothing you can do to stop them—and you certainly can't run

BY TYLER FREEL | PUBLISHED MAY 13, 2022 2:00 PM

https://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/game-c...-charging-bear/

Boy he's one lucky dude to say the least!

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39178
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm vs .44 Mag. [Re: 93x64mm]
#380083 - 15/10/23 04:56 PM

Bttt to add to recent discussions.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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