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think I have said this before - the 10 mm auto loaded to its full power seems to be the best compromise

not hiting so hard like a 44 mag but stronger than any other auto pistol cartridge

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It would be bloody scary seeing a bear come at you!
Don't blame you guys for carrying some serious firepower at all & the attack can be so fast as well.

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The article still proves that a hand gun is way more effective then Bear/Pepper spray. Thanks for posting Ripp.

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How fast can a grizzly cover 50 yards?

Grizzlies are strong runners, which is one of the reasons the U.S. Fish & Wild Services advises those encountering them to “never run from a bear.” The large mammals can cover 50 yards in just three seconds, running as fast as 40 miles per hour.

YUP, they are a bit quick..

Been charged twice by a black bear.. much smaller, still, once it was over.. Can not explain the rush of adrenaline one gets unless you've been there.. similar to when the tuskless cow charged in Zim and stopped at 8 yards.. also a bit of a rush... I was with the late Ian Gibson at the time..

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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I'm in Colorado so (supposedly) black bears only…..
Typically when the bears are out of hibernation I carry 18% pepper spray and either my 10mm or .45 ACP, both with Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman loads.
The pepper spray is actually not for a bear encounter; it's for bad dogs, or bad 2 legged critters……..

- Mike

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I recieved the latest editon of the "OUTDOORSMAN" magazine in the mail yesterday.. Inside had an article written by a lady named Tana Grenda ..She and her husbank live in Alaska.. hunt, guide, etc..where the big Alaskan Brown Bears live..not the tiny 600 to 800lb Griz..

Anyway, her story describes them gettting charged by a big brown last fall.. brother was shooting a 338RUM.. believe she said it was 225 gr Accubonds.. allegedly the bear ate 3 of the 338's and started to charge them.. The rifle ran into an issue, actually the primer fell out of the last round into the action and it jammed.. 454 Casull revolver was pulled and fire 5 more Buffalo Bore rounds into him at close range.. 5th shot hit the brain and killed him mere 5 feet away..

SHE states that in this case, she is convinced had they had a 10MM or similar vs the 454 casull, they would be dead... she said all 3 shots from the 338RUM were in vitals, one broke a shoulder, one through lungs, other above lung area...

I have to check the magazien tonight when i get home and I will correct any misinformation I may have provided in my retelling of this story..Long story short, she seeemed pretty spooked reading her story..I have been following her for a while along with her husband..they are hard core.. so, I respect anything they have to say about this situation..

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The failure.

I have read about that one before.

In the warning shot category, yes a failure.

But the bear was never struck, supposedly. So how could that be categorized as a failure of the gun to stop the attack.

The failure to hit bear would go in another category, shots fired and missed. That would be an interesting statistic by its self.

This would be pretty high stress event. Only matched, I think, by a deadly encounter, sudden and close with a human being.

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I chuckled when I saw this:

"But the second grizzly, also a boar, didn’t veer away, the hunters reported. When it got within 10 feet of one of the men the entire party opened fire, letting loose nine rounds from two .44 magnum revolvers and the .45-70 rifle.

Only two of the shots connected, a necropsy would later determine."

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Got to hit them, and in a lethal place, to kill them.

From another site, and numerous examples, it seemed actually any handgun was quite effective in stopping or preventing severe attacks. I assume providing the defender actually is hitting the charging bear.

Of course,vthe bigger the bullet the better. Providing the user can hit anything with it.

Yep, experience and practice would make a huge difference when adrenaline and sudden and fast reactions occur. I know I fumbled my M98 .30-06 reloading the chamber when I had a hog deer "charge" me, it wasn't charging of course, just fleeing wounded uphill and dodged past. Had it wanted to impale me, a la a bushbuck, it would have had me.

Practising on running shots, and on charging targets is great practice. Maybe including an empty chamber, even an empty magazine.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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The failure.

I have read about that one before.

In the warning shot category, yes a failure.

But the bear was never struck, supposedly. So how could that be categorized as a failure of the gun to stop the attack.

The failure to hit bear would go in another category, shots fired and missed. That would be an interesting statistic by its self.

This would be pretty high stress event. Only matched, I think, by a deadly encounter, sudden and close with a human being.

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I chuckled when I saw this:

"But the second grizzly, also a boar, didn’t veer away, the hunters reported. When it got within 10 feet of one of the men the entire party opened fire, letting loose nine rounds from two .44 magnum revolvers and the .45-70 rifle.

Only two of the shots connected, a necropsy would later determine."

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Got to hit them, and in a lethal place, to kill them.

From another site, and numerous examples, it seemed actually any handgun was quite effective in stopping or preventing severe attacks. I assume providing the defender actually is hitting the charging bear.

Of course,vthe bigger the bullet the better. Providing the user can hit anything with it.

Yep, experience and practice would make a huge difference when adrenaline and sudden and fast reactions occur. I know I fumbled my M98 .30-06 reloading the chamber when I had a hog deer "charge" me, it wasn't charging of course, just fleeing wounded uphill and dodged past. Had it wanted to impale me, a la a bushbuck, it would have had me.

Practising on running shots, and on charging targets is great practice. Maybe including an empty chamber, even an empty magazine.

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And THAT is the crazy part about the story I posted above.. bear was hit 3 times with a 338RUM.. 1 through the lungs, 1 through a shoulder and 1 below the spine ( which is not a good placment) ..but took 5 more from a 454 ... once that adrenaline gets going, the ones in the sight of a pissed off bear have an issue..

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Pistols - .40 Auto and a .45 ACP:
"the investigator gave up after counting 16 holes"
good story!

https://www.ammoland.com/2022/01/wyoming-bear-attack-on-elk-hunters-september-2021/

"The problem of an overabundance of aggressive grizzly bears has been known for some time. In an interview two years ago, Brian Nesvik, head of Wyoming Game and Fish, noted the departments’ hands have been tied. "

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Funny, I read that story a few week back.. crazy story..can picture it all happening like it did..lots of frantic fur and nuts at that point..

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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I would suggest you use the handguns for bad dogs and the spray for 2 legged dogs.
I do like your choice of pistols.

Many dogs are not the least upset with bear spray. My little sharp-nosed springer was not fazed in the least by bear spray.
She snuffled right through the reddish/orange patch on the grass and even licked it, then carried on her way as if nothing untoward had happened.

About black bears, my older daughter returned to the tree planter camp at noon, to find a black bear eating a can of bear spray that was left on the table. The bear was sprayed after it punctured the can, from it's eyes to it's throat and it's mouth was orange was it lapped up the spray.

Not sure what this all means, but my springer and that bear did not mind it.

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[quote
(My wife was downwind and got some wind drift ,….lets just say that she “lost all interest” as well……..I was in real trouble for several days).
- Mike

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Where is their sense of humor???

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Pistols - .40 Auto and a .45 ACP:
"the investigator gave up after counting 16 holes"
good story!

https://www.ammoland.com/2022/01/wyoming-bear-attack-on-elk-hunters-september-2021/

"The problem of an overabundance of aggressive grizzly bears has been known for some time. In an interview two years ago, Brian Nesvik, head of Wyoming Game and Fish, noted the departments’ hands have been tied. "

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Good article. Why weren't any of them carrying a long arm?

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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I may have posted this before, if so I apologize.. it popped up again in my news cycle..find it very interesting as I live in the middle of griz and black bear country.. Fact is I picked up 2 new handguns in the last week.. A Walther PDP compact in 9MM and a S&W M&P 2.0 in 10MM ..The Smith was purchased with bears in mind.. I really like the feel of the M&P line..have carried one in 9MM for CC for the past 8 years or so..Anyway, this is a good article


Defense Against Bears with Pistols: 97% Success rate, 37 incidents by Caliber
Ammoland Inc. Posted on February 19, 2018 by Dean Weingarten

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense...0#axzz7GWHwP1Z1

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I referred to this thread recently. Also on other threads.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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The article still proves that a hand gun is way more effective then Bear/Pepper spray. Thanks for posting Ripp.

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I tried a pepper, chilli, capsicum, paprika type spray on plants , sprinklers etc designed to stop dogs from chewing them. Siegfried my GSP puppy at the time, it didn't bother him at all. Never used it again.

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The article still proves that a hand gun is way more effective then Bear/Pepper spray. Thanks for posting Ripp.

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How does it prove that? It doesn't prove or say anything about spray. It's just a collection of gun anecdotes. In the article, guys get mauled, get off shots before or after being mauled, or their buddy kills the bear while they're being mauled. The article proves nothing other than that sometimes you can kill a bear with a gun. How is being mauled a gun success. Maybe none of them would have been mauled at all if they were walking with spray in their hand.

The only meaningful stat to me, is whether spray will cause bears to back up.

Because I have carried handguns, shotguns, and spray. And I *know* spray can be deployed faster and with more certainty than a gun. You can dangle spray on your finger like car keys as you walk. You can't keep a gun in hand while you walk ten miles. And even if a bear crashes through brush from 6' away and lands on you, if you squeeze the spray you might gas yourself but you'll gas him too. With a gun, you won't get off a shot, and probably won't be able reach the gun while being mauled.

The problem with guns is that they are harder to carry, slower to deploy, and difficult to make a solid hit on a speeding bear at close range.

BUT if you have spray ready to deploy instantly, and it causes the bear to back up and regroup, then the spray has *bought you the time to use your gun effectively."

I would carry spray specifically to buy space and time to use a gun. And stats show that after using the spray the gun probably won't be necessary.

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You are correct about the article itself by itself. I made that comment in relation to other articles I have read about Bear Spray use, sorry I did not make that clear.

What you say about carrying the Bear Spray ready for use sounds very reasonable.

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The article still proves that a hand gun is way more effective then Bear/Pepper spray. Thanks for posting Ripp.

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How does it prove that? It doesn't prove or say anything about spray. It's just a collection of gun anecdotes. In the article, guys get mauled, get off shots before or after being mauled, or their buddy kills the bear while they're being mauled. The article proves nothing other than that sometimes you can kill a bear with a gun. How is being mauled a gun success. Maybe none of them would have been mauled at all if they were walking with spray in their hand.

The only meaningful stat to me, is whether spray will cause bears to back up.

Because I have carried handguns, shotguns, and spray. And I *know* spray can be deployed faster and with more certainty than a gun. You can dangle spray on your finger like car keys as you walk. You can't keep a gun in hand while you walk ten miles. And even if a bear crashes through brush from 6' away and lands on you, if you squeeze the spray you might gas yourself but you'll gas him too. With a gun, you won't get off a shot, and probably won't be able reach the gun while being mauled.

The problem with guns is that they are harder to carry, slower to deploy, and difficult to make a solid hit on a speeding bear at close range.

BUT if you have spray ready to deploy instantly, and it causes the bear to back up and regroup, then the spray has *bought you the time to use your gun effectively."

I would carry spray specifically to buy space and time to use a gun. And stats show that after using the spray the gun probably won't be necessary.

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Similarly anecdotes and stories about using bear spray are similar.

In fact videos exist showing it having zero effect.

But I guess better than nothing for hikers without a gun.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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All of the hikers I know have a quick draw holster on their hip for the bear spray. I think it's a cross draw, iirc.
They do practice with them, at least my wife's hiking group (all old people LOL) practice drawing their spray. Of course, with 7 of them in the group there might be time for one to get out the spray. Someone's gonna get it, but with that many noisy people, they're unlikely to be challenged by a bear.
I personally would not go where they go, without my 12 bore rifle, loaded with Challenger Gualandi DG slugs.

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Exactly Daryl on the last paragraph.

Quick draw might be fine but irrelevant if the spray doesn't work

And stories are still stories. Actual stories and accounts of real encounters are what the opening post was about.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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