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NitroXAdministrator
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Which Colt?
      #353218 - 09/05/21 12:31 AM

Quote:

Info for John on some offers from Colt
saw an article this morning they are coming out with a new group of 1911's chambered in .454acp..
https://www.colt.com/category/pistols




Which Colt would you choose and why?

I was interested in an STI Trojan, a basic 1911 style handgun in 9 mm.

Maybe a Colt would be a solution?

Aussies, are they imported into Australia?

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Re: Which Colt? [Re: NitroX]
      #353219 - 09/05/21 12:34 AM

Maybe this one?



Combat Commander (9MM)
UPC: 098289111357
Model: Combat Commander
SKU: O4942XE

The New Colt Combat Commander® combines Colt history with modern innovation. Carbon Steel Blued frame and slide and Stainless Steel barrel are ready for rugged use. Dual Spring Recoil System reduces felt recoil while extending recoil spring life. Custom G10 Grips and Upswept Beavertail Grip Safety make for a capable carry gun that is equally comfortable on the range Also Available in .45ACP

$999.00
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+ Specifications

Type: Pistol
Action: SAO
Caliber: 9mm Luger
Barrel Length: 4.25"
Capacity: 9+1
Safety: Manual, Grip, Firing Pin
Grips: Checkered Black Cherry G10
Sights: Novak White Dot
Weight: 33.00 oz
Frame Finish: Blued
Frame Material: Carbon Steel
Barrel Type: Stainless Steel
Slide Description: Blued Carbon Steel
Barrel Length Range: 4.00" to 4.99"
Weight Range: 32.00 oz to 47.99 oz
Purpose: Hunting/Target
Series: Combat Commander

https://www.colt.com/detail-page/col-combat-commander-9mm-425

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Which Colt? [Re: NitroX]
      #353221 - 09/05/21 12:45 AM

https://www.colt.com/detail-page/government-38spr-blwd-5-fs

1911 Classic (38S)
UPC: 098289112231
Model: Government
SKU: O1911C-38

When you think of a 1911, you think of Colt. A tribute to the revered Commercial Government Model pistols of the past, the 1911 Classic features the Series 70 firing system and rollmarks, national match barrel, staked on front sights, and spurred hammer. Chambered in .38 Super and blued, this firearm is a pure and simple 1911, designed for you to make it your own.

Also available in .45 ACP and stainless steel finish.
Restrictions:

California, Massachusetts, Maryland

1911 Classic (45ACP)
1911 Classic (45ACP)
1911 Classic SS (38S)
1911 Classic SS (38S)
1911 Classic SS (45ACP)
1911 Classic SS (45ACP)
Royal Blue 1911 Classic
Royal Blue 1911 Classic
$849.00
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+ Specifications

Action: SAO
Caliber: 38 Super
Barrel Length: 5"
Capacity: 9+1
Safety: Ambidextrous Manual
Grips: Checkered Black Cherry G10
Sights: 3 Dot White
Frame Finish: Blued
Slide Description: Blued Steel
Series: Government





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...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Edited by NitroX (09/05/21 12:48 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Which Colt? [Re: NitroX]
      #353222 - 09/05/21 12:50 AM

Some specifics.

I would prefer to start with a 9 mm.

I like the styling of a blue handgun with wood grip panels.

A simpler handgun.

10 shot magazine, so these 9+1's are not sufficient.

Adeqaute barrel length for Aussie specs.

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Ripp
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Re: Which Colt? [Re: NitroX]
      #353223 - 09/05/21 12:53 AM

For me, I chose only those in .45ACP.. also have one in 10MM.. But various models.. really like my Gold Cup..its an older model I bought new in the late 1980's..

Have quit a few 1911 Kimbers.. but still prefer the Colts ...

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Edited by Ripp (09/05/21 01:44 AM)


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EDELWEISS
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Re: Which Colt? [Re: Ripp]
      #353225 - 09/05/21 01:58 AM

After spending most of an afternoon qualifying with a 45acp Commander. I broke out my 9mm Commander for a little competition with the instructor who continued to use his 45. My 9mm recoiled like a 22LR after shooting the 45. Is 45acp manageable--of course. Is 9mm softer shooting in the same gun--sure. Does that matter; only you can decide when head shots and follow ups count more than holes in paper.

There was a time when I felt that 9mm was insufficient, and I still worry that 9mm lacks in head to head with 45 FMJ; but with modern self defense loadings Im convinced 9mm is as good if not better than 45acp. Its principle advantage is more "BB's" in the gun and more BB's is always a good thing.

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Ripp
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Re: Which Colt? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #353229 - 09/05/21 03:53 AM

Quote:

After spending most of an afternoon qualifying with a 45acp Commander. I broke out my 9mm Commander for a little competition with the instructor who continued to use his 45. My 9mm recoiled like a 22LR after shooting the 45. Is 45acp manageable--of course. Is 9mm softer shooting in the same gun--sure. Does that matter; only you can decide when head shots and follow ups count more than holes in paper.

There was a time when I felt that 9mm was insufficient, and I still worry that 9mm lacks in head to head with 45 FMJ; but with modern self defense loadings Im convinced 9mm is as good if not better than 45acp. Its principle advantage is more "BB's" in the gun and more BB's is always a good thing.




AS member 303 pointed out in another post yesterday, is not that same "modern self defense loading" ammo available in .45acp? I have checked and it is...

We did a bullet test a couple years back at a handgun course with TACTIC located here in the valley. Owned and managed by retired military .. Former SEAL team members and other special ops guys.. One of the best bullets we found for going through barriers..windshields, wood, etc and carrying on their point of aim path was the Hornady Critical Duty.. grouped well and maintained good point of aim through windshields.. we were all shooting 9mm .. I do see those same rounds are offered in 45acp as well..

One evening at a little competition we were shooting bowling pins off of a sheet of plywood.. some were shooting 45acp, some 40's and the rest, (including me) were shooting 9mm's.. there was a very clear and distinct difference in energy when those pins got him with a 45acp vs a 9mm.. that could not be argued

I do agree with the more BB's principal as does the TACTIC guys.. having said that.. the Glock 21 holds 13+1 .. which is a lot of rounds for most situations.. everyone carries an extra mag.. so, 27 rounds..most issues will be resolved well before then.. hopefully..

All in all, I mostly carry a 9..but do believe the 45 will do just fine as well in most applications.

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DarylS
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Re: Which Colt? [Re: Ripp]
      #353234 - 09/05/21 06:51 AM

Most personal applications I have read/heard, are 3rnds or less - usually less.

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Re: Which Colt? [Re: DarylS]
      #353237 - 09/05/21 07:37 AM

Sadly we can't enjoy the .45ACP as it was since 1996 thanks to our brilliantly stupid Prime Minister John Howard.......still leaves a bitter taste in your mouth after all these years!
I've always liked just the old bog standard military model, to get a 'survivor' from the war era would be a real fete now-a-days! You can strip them down & put it back together simply, sure they might not be as accurate or look as fancy as all the new ones out there, but they'll always work & go BANG when needed!
JMB genius at work again
Then again a Jim Hoag long slide Hi Power would be impossible to say no to!


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Re: Which Colt? [Re: 93x64mm]
      #353239 - 09/05/21 08:55 AM

Here is a page from Marstar in Canada. These "pistols"are available for us, from them. I see Commanders but not 1911 mil-spec.
Of course, they are Norinco made.
https://marstar.ca/product-category/firearms/pistols/norinco/

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EDELWEISS
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Re: Which Colt? [Re: DarylS]
      #353241 - 09/05/21 11:13 AM

The ballistics argument will no doubt continue when pulse rifles are common carry, will 30 mil wats be enough or is 40 mil wats the minimum for self defense. Is it watts or amps that kill?

Whenever I hear about tests conducted on anything besides living flesh (including ballistic gel), I pinch the bridge of my nose and shiver a bit). NONE of those mediums simulate real life shootings. When done properly the best that can be said is they provide an equal format; just not living flesh. Hatchers tests shot cows to document living targets BUT that was done with bullets with out dated technology I cant imagine that being done in todays climate. Bowling pins, clay, gel only tell what particular bullets do to each of them.

High capacity 45s do exist and can be great carry guns BUT much smaller 9mm guns can carry as many if not more rounds. Again its the gun you have when you need it that makes the difference, not the gun you left at home or the gun you cant own

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DarylS
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Re: Which Colt? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #353243 - 09/05/21 12:56 PM

Hatchers's tests, seems to me, were with pigs on litters, & anesthetized at that.
They were shot all over the body, but a lot in the stomach, etc, before and after eating corn - different times
for digestion of the materials they were fed. They were also shot at range, too, 200yards was noted. Oft times,
were were corn kernels found up into the neck muscles due to what they named as hydrostatic shock. Blood vessel disruption
was also noted, a long distance from the bullet's path.
Today, this is displayed by slow motion video of bullets in soft materials, such as ballistic gelatin, various solid soaps and clay.
Similar tests are not likely to happen today, for sure.
interesting that some things are entirely clear to me, that I read 40 and 50 years ago.


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Checkman
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Re: Which Colt? [Re: NitroX]
      #353244 - 09/05/21 02:59 PM

I'm a traditionalist. I would select the classic 1911 in either 38 Special or 45 ACP. If money is no issue I would go with the 1911 Classic in Royal Blue because I have a thing for "bling". Not a practical finish for field use and gaudy, but very shiny.

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Re: Which Colt? [Re: Checkman]
      #353246 - 09/05/21 03:08 PM

I couldn't care less about a 9 mm vs .45 argument, as has been pointed out, a .45 is out of the question for me in South Aust due to John Howard's 2003 handgun gun laws prohibiting greater than .38/9mm's. Some exemptions where a steel plate needs to be knocked down since.

If the best a Colt can do is a 9 round 9mm magazine, none of them meets the test.

Anyone know if ANY have a 10 round magazine?

And any advantages of any on the page, sights, trigger, whatever, blued metal and wooden grops etc, 10 rounds ?

If we could have a .45 ACP, of course I would have a bog standard Colt in it.

I am hopong that SIG P226 is still in the shop. Doubt it would be though.

PS I started a new thread for a specific topic, not a continuation of the ".45 fading away" thread.

PPS The STI Trojan club handgun at the club is now finished. Been refurbished once, and now on its last legs Because it is so favoured. Glocks still going, no one chooses them on preference. Maybe the Trojan can be improved again, if the owner spends the money? A CZ75 is there as well. LLike that handgun. But always shot the Trojan better.

PPPS I might be interested in a .38 Super or .357 SIG but want to start with a standard 9 mm Parabellum.

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...
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Edited by NitroX (09/05/21 03:14 PM)


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Re: Which Colt? [Re: Checkman]
      #353247 - 09/05/21 03:15 PM

Quote:

I'm a traditionalist. I would select the classic 1911 in either 38 Special or 45 ACP. If money is no issue I would go with the 1911 Classic in Royal Blue because I have a thing for "bling". Not a practical finish for field use and gaudy, but very shiny.




Thanks I had a look at that one. But I didn't realise "Royal Blue" is shiny. Want a matt(ish) blue.

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Re: Which Colt? [Re: 93x64mm]
      #353248 - 09/05/21 03:18 PM

Quote:


Then again a Jim Hoag long slide Hi Power would be impossible to say no to!




Browning Hi Power, must now be in the vintage market? Whne were they last made? I would consider one if in good condition.

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Re: Which Colt? [Re: Ripp]
      #353249 - 09/05/21 03:19 PM

Quote:

really like my Gold Cup..its an older model I bought new in the late 1980's..

Have quit a few 1911 Kimbers.. but still prefer the Colts ...




Interesting, so Kimbers aren't worth considering?

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Checkman
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Re: Which Colt? [Re: NitroX]
      #353255 - 09/05/21 03:48 PM

Kimber has had some issues with quality control over the past few years. Some believe the problem is Kimber has grown too quickly and standards have slipped. Of course ,which is the way with these things, there are others who disagree.

My Colt Commander is a Colt and a very good pistol indeed. My Model 1911A1 Government is a Norinco (yes a Norinco) that was purchased new by my father in 1990. All cultural and economic snobbery aside the Norinco is a solid pistol - at least mine is. The Chinese just reversed-engineered the 1911A1s (made by Colt, Remington, Ithaca, Union Switch & Signal and so on during that war) that the U.S. sent over during WWII and sold it.


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Re: Which Colt? [Re: Checkman]
      #353259 - 09/05/21 09:36 PM

Which Colt? Dang, I just don't know . . .





Curl

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Re: Which Colt? [Re: CptCurl]
      #353260 - 09/05/21 09:56 PM

Ha Ha, Curl. How many are not .45's?

PS And I still can't believe you are selling the Tommiegun!

Are you going to gangster shoot outs in future not with the Tommy, but a brace of 1911's?!

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Re: Which Colt? [Re: NitroX]
      #353261 - 09/05/21 09:57 PM

Next, are they all the same? Other than cosmetic differences? Or vast differences between them? Obviously I CAN see there are some differences.

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Re: Which Colt? [Re: NitroX]
      #353267 - 10/05/21 12:06 AM

Nary a 9mm among them. Two .38 Supers; the rest .45ACP.

That photo is probably 10 years old. There have been additions . . .

Still no 9mm, though. For some reason, my mind only acknowledges .45 and .38 Super on the 1911 platform. Traditional, I guess.

You might take note that the two on the left side are 1911s. The top one is military (U.S. Property); the bottom one a Government Model. They are the oldest ones of the mob.

The rest are 1911A1 configuration, which makes them post-1924. You can tell at a glance by the relief cut in the frame behind the trigger. Also, the upper tang on the grip safety is longer on a 1911A1.



I'll identify them.

Top row, left to right:
* Remington Rand 1911A1, U.S. Property, .45ACP, made 1944;
* Colt 1911A1, U.S. Property, .45ACP, made 1943;
* Ithaca 1911A1, U.S. Property, .45ACP, made 1943;
* Colt Government Model, .45ACP, made 1931;
* Colt 1911, U.S. Property, .45ACP, made 1918.

Bottom row, left to right:
* Colt Gold Cup National Match, .45ACP, made 1969 (the elephant ivory grip panels are add-on);
* Colt Government Model, .45ACP, made 1950;
* Colt Super .38, made 1948;
* Colt Super .38, made 1931;
* Colt Government Model, .45ACP, made 1917.

Don't feel bad. I had to look at the full-resolution copy of this photograph in order to accurately identify each one. For those interested to see them up-close, here's a link: Big Picture

Curl


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Re: Which Colt? [Re: CptCurl]
      #353268 - 10/05/21 12:14 AM

P.S. Given the fact that Colt now is a Czech company, I don't think it wise to part with anything stamped "Colt."

They are no more.

Curl

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Ripp
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Re: Which Colt? [Re: NitroX]
      #353269 - 10/05/21 12:27 AM

Quote:

Quote:

really like my Gold Cup..its an older model I bought new in the late 1980's..

Have quit a few 1911 Kimbers.. but still prefer the Colts ...




Interesting, so Kimbers aren't worth considering?




As noted..I heard rumors of some issues with Kimber years ago..personally, all the ones I have, have shot very well..and have been very accurate..so??? Who knows..

Agree with Curl, I will not be parting with anything stamped COLT...Ever...

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Which Colt? [Re: Ripp]
      #353270 - 10/05/21 01:11 AM

Quote:


. . .

Agree with Curl, I will not be parting with anything stamped COLT...Ever...




The instant it became known that CZ was likely to buy Colt I went on something of a buying spree. Five SAAs in a week's time.

You better grab them now.

Curl

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EDELWEISS
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Re: Which Colt? [Re: CptCurl]
      #353273 - 10/05/21 02:16 AM

No Im not happy that Colt became a CZ company; but Colt has been in the check out lane for awhile (just like Remington and you see where that ended). CZ pretty much saved Dan Wesson and made it better.

Before CZ, the Colt re-introductions of the Python et'al were poor copies at best. They may be branded "Colt Python" but they clearly arent old school Pythons. Maybe CZ can do it better. It would certainly be hard to do it worse.

Today for a SAA to do more than hang on the wall, Id choose an Uberti or Pieta (and a Ruger if I wanted HEAVY loads), over a Colt. Yeah Colts are Colts they look pretty but they arent what they used to be.

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Re: Which Colt? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #353276 - 10/05/21 02:51 AM

The old grey mare comes to mind.

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Huvius
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Re: Which Colt? *DELETED* [Re: CptCurl]
      #353286 - 10/05/21 06:10 AM

Post deleted by Huvius

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vykkagur
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Re: Which Colt? [Re: Huvius]
      #353292 - 10/05/21 11:55 AM

Where to start?

First, as far as CZ buying Colt: As a long-time admirer of Czech weapons, I'm actually relieved. "Shareholders" are only concerned with money, and have no compunction about selling off their history to foreigners. If ownership must go overseas, then there can't be anyone better than the Czechs with their long history of fine gunmaking. At least it didn't go to the usual lot (don't get me started on Indian Land Rovers and Chinese Volvos....)

Second, .45 ACP vs 9mm: the old Ford/Chevy thing all over. Split the difference - 10mm Auto. If you want more weight than the 9mm, or more velocity and capacity than the .45, there you go, and more power than either of them. AND it's available in a Colt auto.

That brings me to my third point: If you must use a 9mm, dictated by policy, or law (sorry Aussies), or personal preference, why the hell would you chose the 1911??? It's the worst of both worlds. You have all the disadvantages of the bulky, low-capacity old platform, but still firing the little round. Lose/lose. If I were mandated to use the 9, I wouldn't chose the fine old 1911, nor would I go to a plastic flexi-gun, with their clunky square slides. (What is it with square slides, anyway? I hate the lack of "pointability" of them. They compel you to use the sights for everything beyond pointblank. Every time I hold one, I feel I should be scanning barcodes in a supermarket.)

No, compelled to go 9mm, I would avail myself of the 1911 Improved, alias the Browning Hi-Power. 13+1 rounds (more if you know where to look), slimline contoured slide with beautiful pointability, and rock-solid John M. Browning logic. And my choice is only partly influenced by the fact that the best action shot with a sidearm I ever managed was with the Browning, even though 9mm wouldn't be my first choice. But then, this thread is about Colts.

In answer to your question John, FN only ceased production of the Hi-Power two years ago.


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vykkagur
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Re: Which Colt? [Re: DarylS]
      #353293 - 10/05/21 12:02 PM

Quote:

Most personal applications I have read/heard, are 3rnds or less - usually less.





I'm sure it's all changed now, but at one time, combat handgunning used to preach the 3-3-3 rule: Almost all engagements took place within 3 yards, in 3 seconds or less, with no more than 3 shots. It was often cited as the reason police departments clung to the revolver for so long.


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FlatTop45
.300 member


Reged: 31/05/16
Posts: 133
Loc: South Texas, U.S.A.
Re: Which Colt? [Re: vykkagur]
      #353313 - 11/05/21 07:18 AM

Quote:

(What is it with square slides, anyway? I hate the lack of "pointability" of them. They compel you to use the sights for everything beyond pointblank. Every time I hold one, I feel I should be scanning barcodes in a supermarket.)



Fucking Brilliant!!!


J

Edited by FlatTop45 (11/05/21 07:21 AM)


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vykkagur
.300 member


Reged: 28/11/19
Posts: 223
Loc: Canada
Re: Which Colt? [Re: FlatTop45]
      #353339 - 12/05/21 07:13 AM

Quote:

Quote:

(What is it with square slides, anyway? I hate the lack of "pointability" of them. They compel you to use the sights for everything beyond pointblank. Every time I hold one, I feel I should be scanning barcodes in a supermarket.)



Fucking Brilliant!!!


J





We aim to please!

Valley Forge?


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Which Colt? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #353365 - 13/05/21 02:30 AM

Quote:

No Im not happy that Colt became a CZ company; but Colt has been in the check out lane for awhile (just like Remington and you see where that ended).

/quote]
---
---



FYI..The Fat Lady is still singing..


..
REMINGTON GUN PLANT IN NEW YORK REOPENS
.
Associated Press
May 12, 2021
Updated: May 12, 2021 10:27 a.m.

-
https://www.nhregister.com/news/article/Remington-gun-plant-in-upstate-New-York-reopens-16170949.php

Edited by Ripp (13/05/21 04:08 AM)

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Which Colt? [Re: NitroX]
      #353368 - 13/05/21 04:35 AM

Quote:

Quote:

really like my Gold Cup..its an older model I bought new in the late 1980's..

Have quit a few 1911 Kimbers.. but still prefer the Colts ...




Interesting, so Kimbers aren't worth considering?




Found this article per your question..

https://www.pewpewtactical.com/kimber-warrior-review/

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Which Colt? [Re: NitroX]
      #353546 - 19/05/21 12:06 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Info for John on some offers from Colt
saw an article this morning they are coming out with a new group of 1911's chambered in .454acp..
https://www.colt.com/category/pistols




Which Colt would you choose and why?

I was interested in an STI Trojan, a basic 1911 style handgun in 9 mm.

Maybe a Colt would be a solution?

Aussies, are they imported into Australia?




Per my PM I sent you earlier, had the opportunity to shoot a variety of Colt 1911's this past weekend.. My father-in-law has a serious collection of them.. over 2 dozen 1911's in various configurations.. some never fired..many that are..

He came by the ranch for the weekend and brought along 4 of them along with other firearms..Sunday morning we went down to my pistol range to try a few out..Loaded the first one in 9mm.. was a ton of fun to shoot. Very accurate, no malfunctions.. and quicker, at least for me, on follow up shots.. then loaded up another he had chambered in 10mm.. It was very interesting watching the metal targets movement when hit with the 10mm.. The targets were moving all the way to the back of their travel pattern and hitting the stop.. This one proved to be very accurate as well with zero malfuntions... I had brought along my Glock model 20 chambered in 10mm as well as a Glock model 19.. While they also functioned without the hitch, I MUCH prefer the fit and feel of the 1911's. I have said before and will say again, IMHO, there is not pistol I have felt that feels as good in the hand as a 1911.. which is probably why 100+ years later, its still so popular..

I do feel having a 1911 in 9mm is a good training handgun choice.. cheaper to practice with, less recoil for those less experienced and allows for long training sessions...

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Which Colt? [Re: Ripp]
      #353547 - 19/05/21 01:41 AM

1911's always felt good to me for rapid fire - no need for sights at 25 yards or so, at least on the "metal" man.

I am reminded of a shoot many years ago, an IPSC match, through the bush on a trail. Had to take the targets as you found them, could only take one step back - standard IPSC target of 1976.
Jay Right, an RCMP "competition" PPC shooter chose to use his wife's 1911 .45, Bomor sighted 1911 - standard WW hardball load.
He won the match. One of the match coordinators noted, "don't know how you major'd all of the targets - I adjusted your rear sight a good 10 clicks left windage. Jay just smiled and said "who uses the sights?"

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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