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EDELWEISS
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Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 604
Loc: Gettysburg
Magnum barrel length--How short is too short
      #350143 - 08/02/21 04:33 AM

Im considering a custom revolver in 454 Casull. Itll be mainly for attacks while hunting but for sure Ill carry it on occasion around town and bring it to Bar-B-Ques. I have a 7 1/2" already so I want something shorter. So Im wondering how short can I go and still get 454 performance (or at least better than 45 Colt)?

Ive seen pretty short options; but I wonder at what point do I turn 454 into 45 Colt? Id like to go 4.5" or maybe even 4". Is that reasonable?

--------------------
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EDELWEISS
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Reged: 22/11/05
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #350145 - 08/02/21 04:41 AM

I guess I should add 454 Casull was my first choice just because Ive got the ammo on hand. Im willing to consider a 50 if it will fit in a Super Blackhawk frame

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #350146 - 08/02/21 04:47 AM

500 JRH will fit in the Super Blackhawk, although the job requires frame work and a custom cylinder.

Grip frame modification are also recommended for the heavy recoiling calibers.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: tinker]
      #350147 - 08/02/21 04:49 AM

For the 454, with the short barrel you can do very well with heavy bullets and top loads.

Look here for one fellow's chronograph data relative to your interest.

480 or 475 or 500 is even better.
For the money, a factory gun in 480 is the best path to the most effect on game from a light and handy short barrel gun.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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EDELWEISS
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Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 604
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: tinker]
      #350149 - 08/02/21 06:08 AM

A Super Blackhawk just came into the shop at a really good price. Its in 357 Magnum (which I dont want). My plan was to send it to Gary Reeder for the custom work. Ive got a couple 5 1/2" Vaqueros guns totally redone by him and they are amazing. Ive also got a Freedom Arms 454 C with a 7 1/2" barrel, so Im thinking of something new.

Ive also got an Encore in 500 SW with a 9" barrel. Ive got brass and bullets for 500 on hand, so something based on a shortened 500SW would be interesting, otherwise Ill probably stick with 454 Casull.

I know I can hot load 45 Colt but what fun is that when you can go bigger

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tinker
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #350150 - 08/02/21 06:25 AM

500JRH is 500 bullet diameter, and proper headstamp ammunition is available from Buffalo Bore. You can also cut 500 S&W brass to work with the JRH

454 Casull is a hotrod, nothing wrong with it for a powerful wheelgun.

For the single action revolver, with the shorter barrel length at a point come problems with ejector rod length.

I could show you some details of a 3-1/2" 480 build that address that issue if you like.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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tinker
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: tinker]
      #350151 - 08/02/21 06:41 AM

If you're going with Reeder and you have and like the 500 S&W, why not just skip the used gun at your shop and go straight to the goods with Reeder's stretch-frame single action in 500 S&W Magnum?
He even calls it the Howdah.
It's only $2500, which after buying the used gun and paying for a custom build on it, the stretch-frame gun doesn't cost much more.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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EDELWEISS
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Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 604
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: tinker]
      #350157 - 08/02/21 11:10 AM

Quote:

If you're going with Reeder and you have and like the 500 S&W, why not just skip the used gun at your shop and go straight to the goods with Reeder's stretch-frame single action in 500 S&W Magnum?
He even calls it the Howdah.
It's only $2500, which after buying the used gun and paying for a custom build on it, the stretch-frame gun doesn't cost much more.



Honestly Im not a huge fan of 500SW or for that matter 460 SW, either. The length of the action looks too long to me. I know thats just a personal thing and I suppose I could grow to like it but why. The 500 and 460 seem like oddballs to me, too long to be pistol rounds and too short for rifle rounds. It doesnt seem bad in the Encore but Ive played with X frames and it felt like a gun designed for the HULK.

Hahaha we both know for this purpose 45Colt is really 'enuf and frankly where Im hunting the likelihood a needing a "Back Up" gun is so slight as to be almost a joke (that is If I saw someone else with it....).

In truth this is just another project gun and the build is just as much fun as the finished product. 454 or 500JRH will both mean new barrels and cylinders so either will be an upgrade from the current 357.

Im thinking between 4 and maybe 4 3/4 inches. I currently have 3 1/2" and 5 1/2" 45Colts. Something 4ish seems good for packing and reasonable for ballistics

--------------------
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DarylS
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #350158 - 08/02/21 11:25 AM

4" to 4 1/2" seems about right for a carry gun.
Anything shorter, to me, is too short. (even though I am no longer "able" to carry)
For a single action, 4 5/8" seems about right, which is where my .357 Mag. 1972 Ruger sits - so in .45 Colt perfect.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #350159 - 08/02/21 11:25 AM

I agree with you on the handling of the longer frames.

I built a stainless Mini Vaquero Single Six into a 4" 5-shot 10mm

At 4" it handles great. 4" is a really handy barrel length for a single action, and you get away with not having to do gymnastics with the build to get relatively normal ejector rod function and base pin function for cylinder removal.

The 3-1/2" 480 required thinning the ejector rod actuator, thinning the base pin head, and the provision of a shift gate in the ejector rod housing to allow the base pin head to pass the ejector rod actuator.

Still, all function was retained, and the gun was very handy. It just takes time/money.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: tinker]
      #350160 - 08/02/21 11:31 AM

Here's that 480 before proper grip stocks were made and fitted.





The proportions were actually quite nice after all was done.
It handles great.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

Edited by tinker (08/02/21 11:34 AM)

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EDELWEISS
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Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 604
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: tinker]
      #350169 - 08/02/21 03:17 PM

Quote:

Here's that 480 before proper grip stocks were made and fitted.






Thats a sweet looking pistol. The barrel band front sight is a nice touch. I was thinking about an octagonal barrel; but the banded front sight really is a nice blend of modern on a SSA.

Yeah something in the 4 inch range is where Im heading.

On a side note I just picked up a Heritage "Barkeeper". Ordinarily I would pass on anything Heritage but the pint sized revolver with a 2" barrel for less than $100 seemed to cute to pass. Its 22LR with a 22Mag cylinder and just the opposite of what I have in mind for THIS build.

--------------------
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tinker
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #350171 - 08/02/21 03:28 PM

Thanks for the compliment.

Look here for a detailed discussion with photos covering the work on the barrel, band, ramp, and the details of the ejector rod and base pin. Some good views in there.

Relative to the question of how short is too short, you get into more functional issues than velocity issues when you go under the 4" barrel threshold.
Also, although there are other ways to accomplish this, the barrel band can help keep the ejector rod housing from moving forward on the heavy recoiling light weight revolvers.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: tinker]
      #350186 - 09/02/21 06:43 AM

Tinker - that should have some "FLIP".
3 1/2" eh.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: DarylS]
      #350189 - 09/02/21 07:51 AM

Quote:

Tinker - that should have some "FLIP".
3 1/2" eh.





--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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EDELWEISS
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Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 604
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: tinker]
      #350190 - 09/02/21 08:39 AM

Thats not flip. Thats just the gun saying "Hi"!

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tinker
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #350191 - 09/02/21 08:51 AM

Yes

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: tinker]
      #350192 - 09/02/21 09:26 AM

Hi - well, if it came almost straight back like a 4" M29(2 handed), it does hurt more.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: tinker]
      #350199 - 09/02/21 02:21 PM

Quote:

For the 454, with the short barrel you can do very well with heavy bullets and top loads.

Look here for one fellow's chronograph data relative to your interest.

480 or 475 or 500 is even better.
For the money, a factory gun in 480 is the best path to the most effect on game from a light and handy short barrel gun.



That's really interesting..between the 4.25 vs 7.5...don't think Mr Griz bear will notice the difference ...

I picked up a Freedom Arms in 454 last spring..good little handgun..but shoot more 45 colt out of it than. 454..as that is what I have more of..if I was headed into griz country, I'd load the 454's

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Homer
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: Ripp]
      #350343 - 13/02/21 08:05 AM

Quote:

Quote:

For the 454, with the short barrel you can do very well with heavy bullets and top loads.

Look here for one fellow's chronograph data relative to your interest.

480 or 475 or 500 is even better.
For the money, a factory gun in 480 is the best path to the most effect on game from a light and handy short barrel gun.



That's really interesting..between the 4.25 vs 7.5...don't think Mr Griz bear will notice the difference ...

I picked up a Freedom Arms in 454 last spring..good little handgun..but shoot more 45 colt out of it than. 454..as that is what I have more of..if I was headed into griz country, I'd load the 454's



G'Day Fella's,

Edelweiss, I don't profess to be any kinda expert on this subject, but as Ripp suggested.
As in, I assume having a more compact handgun (that may never be used), would be a better option.
Just on weight saving and handyness principles allown.

Tinker, that .480 of your's, is a stunning looking Revolver!

Avagreatweekendeh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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tinker
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: Homer]
      #350344 - 13/02/21 01:03 PM

Thanks Homer

It's not mine.
I built it for a client.
But yeah, it's a cool little big-bore.


Cheers

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: tinker]
      #350347 - 14/02/21 11:51 AM

For me, 4", like my M29 is a good length, but here that classifies the handgun as Prohibited. 4 1/8" is OK, though. Go figure.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tinker
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: DarylS]
      #350348 - 14/02/21 12:01 PM

My 10mm Single Six is a 4" gun.
Very handy, and I'm getting 1400fps with the 200gr bullet.
Not handicapped by the barrel length.
We've done 4" guns in the 500 as well, and they do great on big nasty bovine.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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tinker
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Posts: 4835
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Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: DarylS]
      #350349 - 14/02/21 12:15 PM

Accuracy isn't a problem with the shorter guns.
This is the view 100 yards from the target.



This was shot at 100 yards, over the front sight through the sighting channel of the top strap.
Point of aim was bottom edge of the steel.



--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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EDELWEISS
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Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 604
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: tinker]
      #350360 - 15/02/21 12:18 AM

Tinker are you still taking on custom work?

Id love to discuss options, times and prices

--------------------
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tinker
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Loc: Nevada
Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #350361 - 15/02/21 01:34 AM

Check your messages.

There's always something interesting happening at the shop.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Magnum barrel length--How short is too short [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #350370 - 15/02/21 06:03 AM

Nice shooting, John.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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