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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Handguns
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303
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45 auto
      #31014 - 13/05/05 03:36 PM

what are 45 autos like as a hunting caliber and what can be hunted with them

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tunofun
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Re: 45 auto [Re: 303]
      #31038 - 13/05/05 09:43 PM

It is not legal in OZ to hunt with a pistol... but...
.45ACP and FMJ's are not good on roos, I hit one 4 times right in the boiler room with my grandpa's Springfield Armory 1911 and it just took off (I shit myself) and I had to go back to the car to get my .22-250 and put one in his head after he hopped a few hundred yards! Lucky it was on a big plain!

--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 45 auto [Re: tunofun]
      #31064 - 14/05/05 02:35 AM

Aren't .45 Autos now a thing of the past in Aust?



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DPhillips
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Re: 45 auto [Re: 303]
      #31076 - 14/05/05 03:09 AM

Quite a few Americans have been successful using the 1911 45 ACP (typically using ball ammo) for whitetail deer hunting. Shots would need to be at close range and bullet placement is everything.

May not be legal in some areas. I believe it is illegal in many of the U.S. states to hunt with the 45 ACP or the 1911 (or subsequent versions of the Browning design) type handguns.

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stu454
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Re: 45 auto [Re: DPhillips]
      #31094 - 14/05/05 08:39 AM

Newbie here.

In my home state of Georgia, any handgun of at least .35 caliber is legal for game.

Of course, every state is different, to one degree or another.

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Stu

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tunofun
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Re: 45 auto [Re: NitroX]
      #31109 - 14/05/05 12:26 PM

In reply to:

Aren't .45 Autos now a thing of the past in Aust?



Yes they are! I was talking about years ago though...303, you are aware of this? The ban on .45's?

--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

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303
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Re: 45 auto [Re: tunofun]
      #31116 - 14/05/05 01:14 PM

no i wasnt aware of the fact that there was a ban on 45s i never wanted to use a hangun until recently why are they banned and thanks for the info

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rgp
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Re: 45 auto [Re: 303]
      #31117 - 14/05/05 01:42 PM

.45 ACP in a 1911 is best reserved for hunting burglars, murderers, and rapists, however a few people have used .45 ACP 1911's on little Texas whitetail deer with no complaints but as far as I know it was done in brushy areas and the shots were under 20 feet or so. Also I once used the fairly similar wimpy Federal .45 Colt 225 gr. lead hollowpoint load from a Ruger Blackhawk on one and it worked nicely, although there was no bullet expansion.

Does the ban also affect blackpowder percussion revolvers? If not you could probably get a Ruger Old Army and try that. I know someone in Victoria who tried an Old Army on kangaroos but it was the first time he'd ever fired a handgun in his life so he pronounced it as "useless".

Richard

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tunofun
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Re: 45 auto [Re: 303]
      #31127 - 14/05/05 08:10 PM

In reply to:

no i wasnt aware of the fact that there was a ban on 45s i never wanted to use a hangun until recently why are they banned and thanks for the info



They are banned because our government are short sighted fools, either that or they are trying to disarm us for a hidden adenda... All pistols over .38 are banned unless used for olympic or special needs ie metallic silhouette.
You can still have a 1911 though, just have it rebarreled for .38/.45 ACP as many owners have done and come in under the restrictions. I believe the .38/.45ACP is actually more powerful and accurate anyway. from what I have been told...

--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

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Marrakai
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Re: 45 auto [Re: tunofun]
      #31129 - 14/05/05 10:00 PM

The ban on over-.38 calibre handguns in Australia only affects certain disciplines of sport-shooting at a pistol range. IPSC was the worst affected, though Service Pistol and Action Match suffered too.

For occupational use, such as safari guide, pastoralist, professional fisherman or environmental surveyor, any calibre you like. Any legal 'hunting' would have fallen under one of these categories anyway.

The .45 ACP is a bit dismal as a hunting cartridge IMO, and will always be a distant third behind the .44 Magnum and .45 Colt for general field work.

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
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www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 45 auto [Re: Marrakai]
      #31139 - 15/05/05 12:01 AM

Marrakai

Ah I see, but the shooters in the NT managed to keep a lot of their rights by more liberal interpretations than the rest of us.

I know another member of these boards with a very good cause and argument finds it impossible in his state to get a pistol licence for backup use for hunting safaris and similar pursuits.

In SA I think it has almost always been hard and most of these pistols were previously owned for IPSC and similar target shooting use.



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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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303
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Re: 45 auto [Re: NitroX]
      #31250 - 16/05/05 06:06 PM

what about 9x19mm p99 walther what are they like and what are the restrictions on them

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rgp
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Re: 45 auto [Re: 303]
      #31442 - 19/05/05 01:21 AM

9mm aka 9 x 19 is not particularly useful.

If limited to .38 or smaller bore diameter you may wish to skip the autoloaders and consider a good revolver chambered in .357 Magnum and something like a Ruger Single Six with cylinders in .22 LR and .22 Magnum.

Richard.

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: 45 auto [Re: 303]
      #31998 - 26/05/05 12:43 AM

The 9x19 was designed for shooting thin skinned mammals.

OF THE HUMAN VARIETY!!

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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rgp
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Re: 45 auto [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #32051 - 26/05/05 12:40 PM

Alan,

Precisely correct, and the 9mm is pathetic at that endeavour as well as everything else.

Richard.

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NE450No2
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Re: 45 auto [Re: rgp]
      #54676 - 13/04/06 07:12 AM

I have shot whitetail deer with a 9MM, and whitetail deer and a muledeer with a 45ACP. The 45ACP is my favorite handgun... but I was really unimpressed with its performance on deer sized game. I highly recommend you go to the 44 Mag. I have taken several deer with it and it is a much better performer.
As has been posted above a 45ACP for the "city" and a 44 Mag for the "country"

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hoppdoc
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Re: 45 auto [Re: NE450No2]
      #54677 - 13/04/06 07:37 AM

As stated the 9mm/45ACP is inadequate for deer except under unusual circunstances.

I agree that a heavy caliber handgun is better for whitetail and general woods carry due to its better "stopping power", though puny by rifle standards.
I like carrying the 45 colt loaded hot.

Interesting that studies between 9mm and 45ACP show no different effectiveness between the calibers with both requiring multiple shots to neutralize human opponents.The popular Marshall "stopping" studies are flawed and not objectively quantified enough for all variables present in a scientific fashion..

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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hoppdoc
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Re: 45 auto [Re: hoppdoc]
      #54689 - 13/04/06 10:28 AM

Now having said all that what do I carry for personal defense and practice with??

9mm- nope
45ACP-nope

I carry a 40 S&W semiauto with a high cap mag and a b/u mag as well.45's may have better "Smack" but same size guns have less cartridge capacity. I am concerned about multiple bad guys. Most serious thefts in my locale are with multiple perps. More rounds=more better!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (13/04/06 10:31 AM)

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Zeke_Menuar
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Re: 45 auto [Re: 303]
      #55618 - 24/04/06 07:17 PM

I snuck up on a coyote once with a 1911 and blew his back end in half. 45 ACP isn't the greatest hunting round. Better off with a big revolver for hunting.

I use a XD 45 service for a sidearm in the woods. I use factory 230FMJ or my handloads consisting of 45 Super cases and 225gr cast bullets loaded to 1000 fps or so. Not a hunting load, but an adequate self defense round.

ZM

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Tightloop
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Re: 45 auto [Re: Zeke_Menuar]
      #59448 - 29/06/06 11:59 PM

Well, have killed 21 deep with the .45ACP...most of them while shooting a LSWC #68 H&G design over 5.8 gr of WW231...velocity of about 900fps...all close shots, none more than 40 yds and only two required more than one shot..small deer weighing slightly more than 100 lbs, but it did the job..does an even better job on burglars,car jackers, robbers, etc...

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Checkman
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Re: 45 auto [Re: Tightloop]
      #99502 - 18/03/08 09:20 AM

I've been a cop for almost eight years. I've seen people killed with knives, .22's, 25's,38 special and 9mm FMJ. I've also seen folks shot with 12 gauge OO buck (at close range),30-30,.357 magnum, 44 magnum and the unstoppable 45 acp. Those folks are still alive. They aren't a 100% but they're still alive.

I've also seen suspects who elected to shoot it out with us (I was not involved) and before going down they soaked up 12 gauge, 40 S&W, 45 acp and 5.56mm.They took alot before stopping. Heck I once helped investigate a murder in which the weapon was a rubber cargo strap. The victim was strangled with it by a 120 pound female.

The moral of the story? There is no such thing as the ultimate "manstopper".

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9.3x57
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Re: 45 auto [Re: Checkman]
      #99507 - 18/03/08 12:02 PM

Thanks Marrakai and Checkman.

I have shot, quite literally, dozens of butcher sheep with the .45 ACP, 9x19, .357 SIG and .38 Special with FMJ and/or LRN loads. Very few HP's. Both head and body shots have been used. I have also used the .38/200, 7.62x25, .44 Mag, .44 Special, .45 Colt, .32 ACP and .22 LR with a variety of loads for stock shooting, not to mention most of the above on dogs, cats, coyotes and other vermin.

With FMJ/LRN loads in the service pistol cartridges of the first list above, I cannot see one bit of difference between any of these calibers in the reaction of the animals to the shot. If I didn't tell you which round was used I do not believe it possible for you to tell me by an observation of the critter's reaction which round was used. All are amazingly poor performers compared to a .44 Magnum, .30-30, 7.62x39 or other, even moderate, caliber "deer" rounds.

I would not use the .45 ACP with FMJ loads on any deer or other game, not because it will not kill {it will kill, just like a 9x19 will kill} but because the likelihood of a long, decidedly unpleasant and possibly unsuccessful track makes the prospect totally unappealing to me.

The .45 is an excellent service caliber because it has more-than-adequate recoil to operate typical auto pistol mechanisms, making many of the guns in which it is chambered quite reliable. It can be loaded to a high level of accuracy. When an FMJ bullet is used in the .45 ACP and it is compared to other service pistol calibers similarly handicapped, it stacks up OK, which is to say that in the company of the lame, it limps along as well as the rest...

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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hoppdoc
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Re: 45 auto [Re: 9.3x57]
      #99535 - 18/03/08 11:05 PM

All handguns are lame as man stoppers or for game.

Thats why most handgun combat instructors advise that you keep shooting till they're down and not a threat anymore.

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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9.3x57
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Re: 45 auto [Re: hoppdoc]
      #99540 - 19/03/08 12:12 AM

Quote:

All handguns are lame as man stoppers or for game.

Thats why most handgun combat instructors advise that you keep shooting till they're down and not a threat anymore.



A couple things to add.

There is a huge amount of difference between a .45 ACP with FMJ loads and, say, a .44 Mag with a reliable JHP or LSWC or Keith-type bullet. Velocity matters and its effect can be plainly seen in wound channels in game or butcher stock.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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93mouse
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Re: 45 auto [Re: 9.3x57]
      #99550 - 19/03/08 01:10 AM

I use 45ACP with 230gr FMJ for finishers only (neck shots - must break vertebra - in/out clean wounds ~ 3/4 cal. dia) - for hunting .45ACP just gasps for velocity as 57 said - I'd limit myself for distances max. 25m with tad faster (P+ if it works in your gun) and lighter JHP on critters up to 80kg (broadside behind the shoulder shots). No point in comparing it with .44 Mag.

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9.3x57
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Re: 45 auto [Re: 93mouse]
      #99560 - 19/03/08 02:47 AM

Quote:

I use 45ACP with 230gr FMJ for finishers only (neck shots - must break vertebra - in/out clean wounds ~ 3/4 cal. dia) - for hunting .45ACP just gasps for velocity as 57 said - I'd limit myself for distances max. 25m with tad faster (P+ if it works in your gun) and lighter JHP on critters up to 80kg (broadside behind the shoulder shots). No point in comparing it with .44 Mag.



93, very interesting. Exactly the reason we've used FMJ loads in various service calibers for stock shooting for years; very little internal trauma and no lost meat if a body shot becomes necessary. Also the exact reason such bullets should not be used for HUNTING deer, etc.

My son has seen enough mayhem with skittish sheep and pistols he has more or less given up on handguns for butcher stock shooting. He uses our Winchester Trapper .44 with JHP or LSWC loads. Even slightly "off" headshots stun and drop the animal long enough for him to kill them with his knife. Since we stick them all anyway, I have to admit his practicality in this regard is hard to argue with. I have seen sheep take head shots with several calibers including the .45 ACP {FMJ's} and just shake their noggins and proceed with life more-or-less as usual, but I have never seen one tagged with a .44 Mag in the head that didn't find the ground fast.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9ThreeXFifty7 (19/03/08 02:48 AM)

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buckbrush
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Re: 45 auto [Re: 9.3x57]
      #105129 - 15/05/08 09:49 AM

how about a .45 Super- 460 Rowland- 45-08? Same firearm but much more power. I know a pistolsmith in Prince George B.C., that has built several 45-08's for people for bear protection sidearms. He uses cut down .308 cases and loads the snot out of them, I think he gets well over 1200 fps with 230 gr jsp's and swc's.

He recomends Norinco 1911 frames for this, they are tougher than a woodpeckers lips!(5100 series steel.)

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bigmaxx
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Re: 45 auto [Re: 93mouse]
      #105148 - 15/05/08 01:47 PM

First let me say that my chosen caliber for hunting deer is .44 remington magnum. I have used .454 casull also. I would not hesitate to use the .45 acp for deer at bow ranges, 25-35 yds. I think i would use a 230 grain hydrashok. In defense of the 9mm, i believe it is capable of stopping quite well with +p+ ammo if you do your part and put it where it's supposed to go. I carry a Glock 26 sometimes and hit very well with it. I do however usually carry a Glock 21 or 30 with corbon +p ammo. I really like hunting in dense woods from a treestand with a scoped handgun. You can shoot in almost any direction without the twisting and movement required with a rifle.

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