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ducmarc
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Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 926
Loc: fla
Re: Is the 40 S&W DEAD??? [Re: ducmarc]
      #307451 - 08/11/17 11:20 AM

build a holster for a piston driven ar pistol with an 8 inch barrel mine shoots great.or carry a czech scorpion

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 8902
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Is the 40 S&W DEAD??? [Re: ducmarc]
      #307459 - 08/11/17 12:36 PM

Quote:

just some observations.first seals would be effective even with 22 rimfires, i believe the feller that shot the hood in the gunshop was using a 45 that guy dropped like a sack of potatos . a one shot stop.if u want to burn a hole in something us a tokarev. ask any german on the western front how his 9mm held up.maybe no one in leo can hit anything cuz u carry too much ammo. i bet 6 rounds of 357 in cool hands trumps 14 in barneys hands, my 1911 runs like a sewing machine my glock is not as smooth, the weaver stance may not be the way to shoot.allow everyone in leo to carry what they want.my 130lb daughter has never complained about the recoil or muzzle rise in any gun i hand her. i beleive its all perception. if u don't like to shoot don't be a cop,push papers somewhere.




Not buying the above--SEAL's could probably kill with a .22 but they are not, they chose the 9mm and for a reason..have a friend I train handgun with who was with Seal Team 1 until the late 90's..after which time he did some private contract work along with a brief stint with the (spooks)..think his opinion/advise may have a bit of weight behind it

Secondly, comparing the Glock to a 1911...I'll take that bet..you choose whatever 1911 you want, custom or otherwise..I'll walk into Walmart and grab a Glock off the shelve..bet yours goes down first as to jam or reliability..have read many articles and talked to many in LE that have in excess of 100,000 rounds through their GLock ..never a misfire or jam. And some way way over that number...

I train/workout with LEO every week..one group was recently (actually now about 1 1/2 yrs ago) given Colt 1911's..none of them like them for a duty pistol compared to what else is now available..and YES, I have seen them shoot..that is not the issue..they are not complaining about recoil..moreover the excess weight along with the ammo and limited amount of rounds in the weapon vs what else is available..most cases in today's world, you engage a criminal his firearm will have more than 6 or 8 rounds..and in today's world, they run in groups..Just read an account of a guy firing two warning shots in the air when he spotted two guys trying to steal his car, one spun around and returned fire killing the owner of the car..

http://www.live5news.com/story/36127227/...tealing-his-car

I have 1911's as well...along with pretty much most off the shelve handguns you can currently purchase..and typically shoot weekly....there is no doubt the .45 has more energy..but given the reasons I gave in my previous post, will take one of the high capacity 9's for self defense over the 1911 90% of the time....

In the end, whatever you feel best about and most comfortable with is the one you should use,
As they say, the best handgun is the one you have in your hand when you need one..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ripp
.470 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 8902
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Is the 40 S&W DEAD??? [Re: Ripp]
      #307464 - 08/11/17 01:00 PM

Interesting article on the 45acp vs 9mm..

https://www.concealedcarry.com/national/marine-operators-have-settled-the-9mm-vs-45-debate/

Excerpt from article:

For Marine special operators, the never-ending debate over whether the 9mm or .45-caliber round is the more powerful bullet has been settled.

Previously, the classic .45-caliber Colt 1911 was one of three pistols that Raiders were allowed to carry, but now the 9mm Glock 19 is the only pistol that Marine special operators can take into battle, said Maj. Nick Mannweiler, a spokesman for Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command.

“We put our money behind the 9mm round fired by an extremely well-trained marksman carrying a Glock 19,” Mannweiler told Marine Corps Times.

This article discusses the pros and cons to a degree....

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (09/11/17 12:50 AM)


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Homer
.400 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 1852
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Is the 40 S&W DEAD??? [Re: Ripp]
      #307478 - 08/11/17 06:55 PM

Quote:

Interesting article on the 45acp vs 9mm..

Excerpt from article:


“We put our money behind the 9mm round fired by an extremely well-trained marksman carrying a Glock 19,” Mannweiler told Marine Corps Times.




G'Day Fella's,

+1.
There's a very old saying that goes; "For the want of a (or multiple) well aimed shot".

I have a IMI Jericho 941 F ("F" for Frame mounted safety), in .40 S&W.
Its a great pistol and calibre and fits my hand like a glove.
I purchased it, primarily for pistol suppressor development but would like to fit a 9x19mm barrel (and mags) to it, and shoot IPSC with it.

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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Ripp
.470 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 8902
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Is the 40 S&W DEAD??? [Re: Homer]
      #307486 - 09/11/17 12:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Interesting article on the 45acp vs 9mm..

Excerpt from article:


“We put our money behind the 9mm round fired by an extremely well-trained marksman carrying a Glock 19,” Mannweiler told Marine Corps Times.




G'Day Fella's,

+1.
There's a very old saying that goes; "For the want of a (or multiple) well aimed shot".

I have a IMI Jericho 941 F ("F" for Frame mounted safety), in .40 S&W.
Its a great pistol and calibre and fits my hand like a glove.
I purchased it, primarily for pistol suppressor development but would like to fit a 9x19mm barrel (and mags) to it, and shoot IPSC with it.

Doh!
Homer




Remember an instructor telling a group of us once, you can't miss fast enough.. think of that to this day..and that was about 25 years ago..

Found another article that goes with this I believe as the thread is moving around a bit from the virtues of one caliber or another to type/make of the handgun..

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/fight-100-years-glock-1911-comparison/

Have a great day

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (09/11/17 01:04 AM)


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ducmarc
.375 member


Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 926
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Re: Is the 40 S&W DEAD??? [Re: Ripp]
      #307515 - 09/11/17 01:17 PM

my glock 19 is virtually infallible . but my 1911 still functions smoother. yes it can jam and is heavy, still i have complete confidence in both guns . since the fbi keeps data on about everything i wonder which round has the most kills overall on the street. by thugs, cops and civilians. watchin first 48 the other night and thug 1 was killed by thug 2 with about 8 rounds of 22 automatic.these people kill each other straight away without any training or practice. some my not even know if the gun will shoot. [they love the high point]there must be some mindset to killing in anger that trumps all the training and practice. i believe that maybe a big player in why cops miss and thugs hit. also special forces are trained to kill without thinking or remorse.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Is the 40 S&W DEAD??? [Re: ducmarc]
      #307519 - 09/11/17 03:57 PM

My 1911 seemed to gain a bit of weight, with the 11 round mags, but was still usable. Yes - they stuck out the bottom.
I liked the 12 round feature with one up the spout, condition 1.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 2528
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Is the 40 S&W DEAD??? [Re: ducmarc]
      #307524 - 09/11/17 09:07 PM

Quote:

my glock 19 is virtually infallible . but my 1911 still functions smoother. yes it can jam and is heavy, still i have complete confidence in both guns . since the fbi keeps data on about everything i wonder which round has the most kills overall on the street. by thugs, cops and civilians. watchin first 48 the other night and thug 1 was killed by thug 2 with about 8 rounds of 22 automatic.these people kill each other straight away without any training or practice. some my not even know if the gun will shoot. [they love the high point]there must be some mindset to killing in anger that trumps all the training and practice. i believe that maybe a big player in why cops miss and thugs hit. also special forces are trained to kill without thinking or remorse.




Most people can not voluntarily kill another in cold blood. It was found way back that infantry soldiers would deliberately fire to miss, about 4% had a psychopathic streak that allowed them to. Hence the use of human like figures as targets, human shape sacks of straw for bayonet practice, and the propaganda that dehumanized the enemy. The bad guys tend to have a higher rate of psychopathic streaks and find it easy to shoot a person + they tend to shoot effectively at closer ranges and not at longer unless a natural or trained.


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Ripp
.470 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 8902
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Is the 40 S&W DEAD??? [Re: Rule303]
      #307527 - 10/11/17 01:01 AM

Quote:

Quote:

my glock 19 is virtually infallible . but my 1911 still functions smoother. yes it can jam and is heavy, still i have complete confidence in both guns . since the fbi keeps data on about everything i wonder which round has the most kills overall on the street. by thugs, cops and civilians. watchin first 48 the other night and thug 1 was killed by thug 2 with about 8 rounds of 22 automatic.these people kill each other straight away without any training or practice. some my not even know if the gun will shoot. [they love the high point]there must be some mindset to killing in anger that trumps all the training and practice. i believe that maybe a big player in why cops miss and thugs hit. also special forces are trained to kill without thinking or remorse.




Most people can not voluntarily kill another in cold blood. It was found way back that infantry soldiers would deliberately fire to miss, about 4% had a psychopathic streak that allowed them to. Hence the use of human like figures as targets, human shape sacks of straw for bayonet practice, and the propaganda that dehumanized the enemy. The bad guys tend to have a higher rate of psychopathic streaks and find it easy to shoot a person + they tend to shoot effectively at closer ranges and not at longer unless a natural or trained.




I have read the same info you state above..

Feeling bad however, the one time I become a member of a small group of people, the term "psychopathic" is attached to it...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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ducmarc
.375 member


Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 926
Loc: fla
Re: Is the 40 S&W DEAD??? [Re: Ripp]
      #307557 - 10/11/17 11:53 AM

first i think all humans are a little crazy .okay a lot. about five years ago my oldest sister was confronted by an intruder. she put a hole in him . he lived to which my sister said next ill empty the gun. now 62 this year in the last hurricane she cornered 4 hooded men trying to steal her generator.she knows how to use that mossberg pump. all went to jail. her big fat husband called police and hid. but she said if they would have been in the house she would have splattered the walls.no remorse.some people are capable most are not.i know i'm a little loose i brake for squirrels in the morning then hunt them down in the afternoon.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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ducmarc
.375 member


Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 926
Loc: fla
Re: Is the 40 S&W DEAD??? [Re: ducmarc]
      #307560 - 10/11/17 12:26 PM

back to guns . ripp have u looked at the .960 rowland basically a hot 9mm streached out a few mm. not quite as long as the largo. though it fits in a 9mm magazine .

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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Homer
.400 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 1852
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Is the 40 S&W DEAD??? [Re: ducmarc]
      #307711 - 13/11/17 06:44 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Ducmarc, I'm not familiar with the 960 Rowland but I remember well, some of the local IPSC shooters, shooting what later became the "9x25 Dillon" (the 10mm Auto case, necked down to hold a 9mm bullet).

Iirc it was the 1994 IPSC Australian National, and these blokes from Sydney were loading and shooting these loads in their 1911's, with fully supported (5" or 6"?) barrels at 2000fps.
I can't remember the bullet weight (115 or 125grn?) but we were doing the chronoing of all the competitors loads at the match, and you knew when you cut one of these off!
BOOM BOOM SHAKE SHAKE THE RANGE!

Further to the .40 S&W cartridge.
What some people don't realise is, with 180grn bullets, the .40 S&W is only about 200fps behind the 10mm Auto, and about the same velocity as a 185grn bullet in a .45ACP.
There are individual variations with all three of these cartridges and their guns but generally, most data for the .40 S&W has been developed in a 4" barrel and with the 10mm and .45ACP, 5" barrels are generally used.

Regardless of which cartridge you choose or prefer, as Ripp/USMC Maj Nick Mannweiler quoted above, accuracy is still the most import consideration of all.

Doh!
Homer



--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 26867
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Is the 40 S&W DEAD??? [Re: Ripp]
      #307762 - 14/11/17 06:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

my glock 19 is virtually infallible . but my 1911 still functions smoother. yes it can jam and is heavy, still i have complete confidence in both guns . since the fbi keeps data on about everything i wonder which round has the most kills overall on the street. by thugs, cops and civilians. watchin first 48 the other night and thug 1 was killed by thug 2 with about 8 rounds of 22 automatic.these people kill each other straight away without any training or practice. some my not even know if the gun will shoot. [they love the high point]there must be some mindset to killing in anger that trumps all the training and practice. i believe that maybe a big player in why cops miss and thugs hit. also special forces are trained to kill without thinking or remorse.




Most people can not voluntarily kill another in cold blood. It was found way back that infantry soldiers would deliberately fire to miss, about 4% had a psychopathic streak that allowed them to. Hence the use of human like figures as targets, human shape sacks of straw for bayonet practice, and the propaganda that dehumanized the enemy. The bad guys tend to have a higher rate of psychopathic streaks and find it easy to shoot a person + they tend to shoot effectively at closer ranges and not at longer unless a natural or trained.




I have read the same info you state above..

Feeling bad however, the one time I become a member of a small group of people, the term "psychopathic" is attached to it...

Ripp




Hot blood vs cold blood makes a big difference.

Eg an intruder in your house threatening you

vs

an intruder who has given up and is cowering on the fllor under your muzzle.

Eg 2 - a person armed and intent on killing you

vs

a person who is walking along a path in the forest, unarmed and you want to shoot and kill them for some reason.

Yes the first two examples are probably very much easier to act on than the second two examples. The first ones might be considered self defence. The second two examples would be considered murder.

Repetition and training makes a big difference. Raise and shoot your target as soon as you obtain the target. If in a threatened situation, do you raise your gun and think of the consequences of firing. I think good self defence training would be, IF you are already being threatened, raise and fire your gun instantly. BUT a person may well have a couple of years and hundred thousand dollars or more of legal court appearances and fees at the best. If the authorities decide to charge and pursue you legally. As they do in many cases.

"I was personally feeling threatened with my life in danger. And/or my family. IU acted unconsciously in fear of my life. The man had broked into my house and was threatening me. I was afraid for my life."

Forget any "castle doctrine" BS. That would get you into a court fast.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Ripp
.470 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 8902
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Is the 40 S&W DEAD??? [Re: NitroX]
      #307778 - 15/11/17 02:24 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

my glock 19 is virtually infallible . but my 1911 still functions smoother. yes it can jam and is heavy, still i have complete confidence in both guns . since the fbi keeps data on about everything i wonder which round has the most kills overall on the street. by thugs, cops and civilians. watchin first 48 the other night and thug 1 was killed by thug 2 with about 8 rounds of 22 automatic.these people kill each other straight away without any training or practice. some my not even know if the gun will shoot. [they love the high point]there must be some mindset to killing in anger that trumps all the training and practice. i believe that maybe a big player in why cops miss and thugs hit. also special forces are trained to kill without thinking or remorse.




Most people can not voluntarily kill another in cold blood. It was found way back that infantry soldiers would deliberately fire to miss, about 4% had a psychopathic streak that allowed them to. Hence the use of human like figures as targets, human shape sacks of straw for bayonet practice, and the propaganda that dehumanized the enemy. The bad guys tend to have a higher rate of psychopathic streaks and find it easy to shoot a person + they tend to shoot effectively at closer ranges and not at longer unless a natural or trained.




I have read the same info you state above..

Feeling bad however, the one time I become a member of a small group of people, the term "psychopathic" is attached to it...

Ripp




Hot blood vs cold blood makes a big difference.

Eg an intruder in your house threatening you

vs

an intruder who has given up and is cowering on the fllor under your muzzle.

Eg 2 - a person armed and intent on killing you

vs

a person who is walking along a path in the forest, unarmed and you want to shoot and kill them for some reason.

Yes the first two examples are probably very much easier to act on than the second two examples. The first ones might be considered self defence. The second two examples would be considered murder.

Repetition and training makes a big difference. Raise and shoot your target as soon as you obtain the target. If in a threatened situation, do you raise your gun and think of the consequences of firing. I think good self defence training would be, IF you are already being threatened, raise and fire your gun instantly. BUT a person may well have a couple of years and hundred thousand dollars or more of legal court appearances and fees at the best. If the authorities decide to charge and pursue you legally. As they do in many cases.

"I was personally feeling threatened with my life in danger. And/or my family. IU acted unconsciously in fear of my life. The man had broked into my house and was threatening me. I was afraid for my life."

Forget any "castle doctrine" BS. That would get you into a court fast.




AGREE
was in a class last week..was given an example of a Japanese man who purchased a little story in the city..kept getting robbed..7 times in one year..so brought a gun to the store..would be robber comes into the store..holding a gun to store owner..store owner was ordered to give all money out of till..store owner reaches like he is getting the money and pulls the handgun..shoots and hits the robber dead center in the chest..walks around the corner of the counter..looks down at the robber.. steps over robber..looking down at him and dumps 3 more rounds into robbers head..ALL ON SURVEILLANCE CAMERA..needless to say the SO is now spending his life in prison..had he stopped with the first shot, which in all likelihood killed him already, he would have been fine most likely..but to then walk over and pump 3 more rounds into his head..might be considered a bit excessive by some..as the very least, shut off the camera..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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lancaster
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Re: Is the 40 S&W DEAD??? [Re: Ripp]
      #308098 - 22/11/17 07:38 AM





--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Homer
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Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 1852
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Is the 40 S&W DEAD??? [Re: lancaster]
      #308101 - 22/11/17 08:42 AM

G'Day Fella's,

Lancaster, prior to 2002 (FJWH!), my .45ACP targets used to look like the right hand target in that image. It was the best of both worlds!
.45ACP pistols (with full power loads), are not an easy gun to shoot accurately but once you have mastered this aspect, they are very hard to beat (DVC).

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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Daryl_S
.577 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 16716
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Is the 40 S&W DEAD??? [Re: Homer]
      #308108 - 22/11/17 10:18 AM

To many 9's Homer.
Mine liked 11.9gr. W630 & the Speer 260gr.Jacketed HP. This made 960fps in my 5" Wilson barrel, would shoot into 2" off bags at 50 yards and worked perfectly on a 300pound black bear, shot through both shoulders, about 20 yards range.

I thought it was easy to shoot, but was doing a lot of handgun shooting back then.

Oh yeah- it also liked a 300gr. .45/90 bullet, lubed and sized down to .452", in front of 8.0gr. Blue Dot(not sure on that load - memory and all).
I think it was supposed to be close to 800fps. I didn't chronograph that one. I should have installed a heavier recoil spring for that load as it kicked a good deal more and was a bit hard on the frame, with some battering and a crack that I had to check-drill to stop. That worked and no further damage to the frame, amazingly enough.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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