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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Handguns

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M82A1Barret50Cal
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Reged: 12/04/04
Posts: 96
Loc: ACT, Australia
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #19488 - 28/09/04 01:16 PM

After careful consideration over the last few months, I would say for personal protection, if you are limited on cal size then get the biggest cal you can and put the hottest load you can in it. If not I agree with the 10mm auto, I still haven't had a chance to shoot anything bigger than a .38 (stupid australian government) but from looking at performance figures that's what I would go for.

However, for home protection, get yourself a not-too-expensive, but reliable, 12 semi-auto shotgun. Put a skeeted choke in, saw off the barrel, take your No. 00 (very well chosen ammo by the above user) and remove the wad for faster spread of the shot. If you do all this right from 5 meters your shot should have expanded to a radius of about 1 meter, in otherwords you can't miss, pump a few of those into someone and they will have shrapnel embedded in them from head to toe and they won't live to tell the story...

M82A1


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Siskiyous6
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Reged: 21/11/04
Posts: 69
Loc: Del Norte COunty, CA
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #21123 - 22/11/04 05:33 PM

The best is the one in your hand. I teach personal defense. You need agun you will carry. When I lived in the desert I carried smaller guns than I do in moderate climates. Lite guns tend to be taken along when heavy guns are left at home.

The best gun is the most powerful gun you are willing to take with you all the time

On duty we still carry .38 S&W revolvers and I have one of Taurus's UltraLite's in that caliber (+P) that is always with me. I also have a 25 ounce 45. It goes along a little less often. There are some really small and light 9mms, but if you are going to carry more weight then don't kid yourself. The 45 is more gun. One shot stopping power is irrelevent. Empty the guns entire capacity into him quickly.

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slammer6delta
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Reged: 31/12/04
Posts: 47
Loc: KY
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #22943 - 31/12/04 10:52 AM

I agree with Alan hands down that a rem 870 with 00buck is the best self defense you can have. If someone breaks in your house and you happen to miss him your first shot because it's dark or whatever and half the wall beside him is gone, his intentions of robbing you after that are probably gonna fade anyway. You can replace the wall later but you can't replace your life or worse your wife or child.

My step brother was riding horses one day and one of the guys that was with them just started shooting at everyone with a .22 pistol. He hit a couple of them didn't kill any of them, hit my brother in the leg, brother took the pistol away from him and beat the hell out of him.


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blackfoot
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Reged: 29/12/04
Posts: 8
Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: M82A1Barret50Cal]
      #22995 - 31/12/04 06:33 PM

Wound ballistics and stopping power of calibers are still debated even by the experts. But the only real guaranteed measure of man-stopping power is the size of the wound channel the bad guy is going to bleed into. Unless you hit the central nervous system they're not sure to go down straightaway, and that's not very likely to happen. I had a friend a number of years ago who was attacked at several feet by a butcher-knife wielding assaillant while responding to a routine call. The first round (38 special +P hollowpoint, in performance very close to a 9mm Hydrashock, these were the revolver days) went dead center into the guy's chest. He kept coming and managed to put a slash across the officer's face, friend still has the scar. The second round went through the bad guy's cervical spine, and the assailant collapsed immediately, effect described as being like a switch turned off.

No normal pistol round is going to have enough energy to physically knock someone down, they're going to hopefully fall down from shock and pain, and years of self-visualization from TV and movies that that is what one does when one gets shot. The problem is with the bad guy who doesn't realize its time to fall down. In the 1986 Miami shootout between the FBI and the two armored car robbers, which left two agents dead and around a half dozen more wounded, one of the suspects fought for several minutes after sustaining a 'non-survivable' wound to his aorta.

I think a 9mm hollowpoint is a good round, its what I carry off-duty in a Browning BDM. I would not go any smaller though. The 40 S/W (10mm short) is a bit more powerful. The 10mm and 45ACP are still the kings in my eyes. The FBI's research shows the 10mm might be just a tad better man stopper than the 45. But they'll all work. I think its what you're comfortable with recoil-wise, and what you can afford to practice with! All the foot-lbs. in the world aren't going to save you if they're zinging over the bad guy's shoulder. I don't know about down under, but in the states 45ACP is almost twice as expensive as 9mm. I also like the nine because I can carry sixteen rounds in an off-duty capacity in a slim pistol, where I might not have a spare mag around.

As far as brand name guns I like dependable ones, Brownings, Rugers, Smith revolvers, 3rd generation Smith autos. I personally have had a lot of problems with Berettas and some with Sigs. Never shot a CZ but I'd like to. Glock is a good combat gun but you need to be damned careful with it, 4.5 lb standard trigger pull isn't much.

All just my two cents anyway .


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577Enfield
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Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 90
Loc: BC-Canada
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: blackfoot]
      #23029 - 01/01/05 01:23 AM

for me, in the area I live in and the lifestyle I lead, self defence with a handgun means bears primarily. A double barrel howdah pistol in .577 Snider would be my ultimate choice for this. For some scumbag trying to attack me with a knife? well I am most comfortable with a single action in .45 Colt, I realize an auto is likely better, but I have only used auto's a little bit-a big single action revolver is natural to me and I can use one without wondering what button to push etc....

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Taos
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Reged: 09/05/04
Posts: 169
Loc: Nevada, U.S.A.
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #38848 - 07/10/05 02:01 PM

I daily carry a Kimber single stack in .45 A.C.P. A little practice and it is very controllable. My sons both started shooting them at around 7yoa. My wife loves to shoot it also.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26498
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #38849 - 07/10/05 02:21 PM

Being a proficient handgun shooter with many years of use, on the job and off, I can wholeheartedly recommend a short barreled 12 bore only. Handguns take much practise to become proficient in their use, and easily miss at very close range by someone who is quite excited. Just a few hours of GOOD practise can develope all the skill necessary to use a shotgun properly. You, the home defender, must be the only one giving evidence at the trial. With a single bullet fired from a handgun, this is less likely.
: For inside jobs, I'd recommend #1,2,3 or 4 buck and an open choke. The smaller buck-shot, the better as it will be equally or more effective at such close range as 00 buck due to multiple hits and be less likely to hurt someone else in adjacent rooms due to less penetrative force.
: A shotgun is much easier to control and has a much more dramatic 'Visual' effect which is liely to difuse the situation until help arrives via 911.
: For those who insist on using a handgun, there are few better or even the equal of the model 1911 loaded with Speer Flying ashtrays.(200gr.hp's)(or more modern rapid expanding projectile. The trouble is that few will retire to the needed practise, vitally necessary to become proficient with it. I do not consider anything smaller than .41 cal. to be good enough for those who can legally use a firearm for self defense. The only .38 I would consider is a .38/40, which is actually a .408". The .35's don't muster.


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Pablo
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Reged: 09/04/05
Posts: 12
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: M82A1Barret50Cal]
      #39741 - 25/10/05 10:24 AM

10mm is caput, it's been superseded by .40S&W.
After loosing 15kilos the MK 23 .45ACP is the one for me.


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303
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Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 136
Loc: west retreat
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Pablo]
      #39837 - 26/10/05 09:23 PM

what about one of those little ruger super redhawks with the 2 1/2 inch barrel in 454Casul

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Taos
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Reged: 09/05/04
Posts: 169
Loc: Nevada, U.S.A.
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 303]
      #39849 - 27/10/05 04:01 AM

I would say that the best gun for self defense is the one you have with you when it is needed. That said I would choose the largest bore gun, with the hottest load that I could shoot and hit a pie plate consistantly every time at 20 yards, without fail. That is what I would consider my defensive handgun.

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Pablo
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Posts: 12
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 303]
      #39864 - 27/10/05 01:23 PM

.454 Casull with 2.5" barrel? Nice "flame thrower" which entire sasquatch family can use in defense of their cave.
Try .357Mag with 38 Special + P 158gr semi-wadcutter hollow points.

Edited by Pablo (27/10/05 01:28 PM)


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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #39890 - 28/10/05 01:10 AM

.45ACP in a 1911

AND
Proper training.

Proper training as in thunder ranch, front site etc...
Massad Ayoob Lethal force Institute yadda yadda yadda

All the bullshit about a single action trigger being dangerous is just that.
The .45 is easily controllable, wether in the 1911 or a glock or a revolver...
It's a manstopping round designed to stop men.
It works great at doing that too.





--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26498
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: M82A1Barret50Cal]
      #39898 - 28/10/05 04:09 AM

Best handgun for self defence, for someone without good combat/handgun training, is a 20" bl. 12 bore Pump with 00 buck.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Pablo
.224 member


Reged: 09/04/05
Posts: 12
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: DarylS]
      #40055 - 30/10/05 01:47 AM

If self defense = home defense then cyl-choked scattergun is fine. Birdshot for summer season and #4 Buck for fall/winter, if applicable.

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Tightloop
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Reged: 24/06/06
Posts: 74
Loc: Spring, Tx...
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Pablo]
      #65476 - 08/11/06 03:30 AM

45 ACP, 1911 Series 70 Commander, full race, stuffed with 230 Fed Hydro Shok....been doing the job since the round was designed in 1905 and then made it's way into the 1911 mod pistol...both doing the job for a long time...

Line the tag line of one of the members...never hunt with a cartridge younger than you...well, same can be said for a pistol round that was designed to save your life...


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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Tightloop]
      #65486 - 08/11/06 05:19 AM

The best handgun is the one in the caliber you can best hit your target repeatedly.

I enjoy and shoot alot of handguns so I will voice my opinions and hope not to offend others.

1911's are great if they are extensively reworked but most suffer from reliability issues if run hard.The best most reliable stock guns for defensive work are Glocks,Sigs,and HK's. I like HK compacts with their safety features. They are not common familiar guns. A perp who gets your gun may require some extra time to get one running.

Attacking perps require multiple hits and thus a 45 is harder to control effectively. One bullet may not get it done. You should shoot till the perp is not a threat. I have several 1911's but I personally prefer the 40 S&W in one of the guns mentioned. A 40 will also have higher magazine capacity than 1911's. When carrying a small pocket size auto a 9mm micro Kahr works nicely.

Carry a gun everyday and shoot regularly.You may form the same opinions.Its a highly personal issue and you are betting your life on your choice.Shooting defensive handguns is just plain fun.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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Tightloop
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Reged: 24/06/06
Posts: 74
Loc: Spring, Tx...
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: hoppdoc]
      #65497 - 08/11/06 09:22 AM

I agree that the best pistol is the one that you can hit with...but a 45 ACP is lots easier to shoot and control than a 470NE and it seems that everyone here but me has one of those...LOL

Started shooting competitively in '77, between then and now, recon I have shot way over 1 million rounds of 45ACP...been to 5 US Championships and 3
World shoots....I guess the 45 will get it done for me with 9 rounds...I don't intend on taking on the entire Bandidos biker gang at once...doesn't matter if you are Rob Leathan if there are 10 and you only have 9 rounds....


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gatsby
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Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #65521 - 08/11/06 05:31 PM

I like the .41 mag Smith 6inch or the Colt 45 auto for myself. If I had to leave a gun for the wife and kids it would be a .38 revolver with +p light hollow points, easy to use and to see if its loaded or not. Here in CA in the USA it is illegal to leave a loaded gun within the reach of a minor or any gun for that matter. A shotgun is not a bad thought either.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: gatsby]
      #65529 - 08/11/06 10:57 PM

The best gun is the one you hit the target rapidly and accurately with be it a 9mm, a 40, a 45ACP ,or whatever.

If you have to actually shoot a single perp, don't just shoot once and watch, shoot 'em like a singer sewing machine while moving,starting at the chest and zipper up till they are not a threat.Have a b/u mag and a flashlight if possible.Perps probably have partners, so look for his buddy.

I refer to "people" defensive handguns. When outdoors for protection I carry a Ruger Bisley 45 LC with hot loads for penetration.Almost had to use it on a black bear once.

You gotta use what works for you.Practice alot!!.


--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: hoppdoc]
      #65556 - 09/11/06 10:13 AM

I have been thinking about the Kimber KDP recently for home defense. I like its features and it will accomodate a flashlight. I find the a shotgun too bulky and I want to keep my firearm in my side table.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: bonanza]
      #65564 - 09/11/06 01:38 PM

I would agree that for home defense a light/laser dot combo on a semiauto is a winner. An advantage of such a gun shooting a high capacity 9mm like a full size Glock is that you can make controlable hits at strange angles away from your body around corners etc.I think its a great home defence combo---

Try shooting targets in dark rooms with such a gun going doorway to doorway.Its very educational and a blast!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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Tightloop
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Reged: 24/06/06
Posts: 74
Loc: Spring, Tx...
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: hoppdoc]
      #65590 - 10/11/06 01:23 AM

Would you like to expand on your statement of making controlable hits at strange angles around corners etc...I have been shooting combat handguns for 30 yrs and the requisites for accurate handgun shooting differs little from accurate rifle shooting...sight picture and trigger control are the two things that matter...and the laser sights like Laser Sites only give you an approximation of where your shot will hit...



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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Tightloop]
      #65620 - 10/11/06 09:01 AM

Tightloop--Sorry--

You are absolutely correct-

Brain/typing Fart!!

I was referring to strange pivoting body angles used banging away from corners. i.e. when tipped over at 45`to lessen body exposure from return fire. I find a 9mm much more controllable with pivoting angles and better able to hit targets than other calibers.With your level of competition experience/expertise this would'nt be a problem,but I do better with a 9mm.And yes if you cant get a front site picture and release the trigger properly you got problems.

I will defer to others who shoot/train heavily with lasers but my impression is they actually slow down your shot response when used for POI in low light.I do think they may be an aid in developing muscle memory for learning how to "point shoot" at close distances. I think I may be better at "point shooting" after playing with the laser but how that could be proved I don't know.

What are your thoughts on light/laser equiped guns for low light scenarios and home defense?

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (10/11/06 09:06 AM)


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Tightloop
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Reged: 24/06/06
Posts: 74
Loc: Spring, Tx...
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: hoppdoc]
      #65622 - 10/11/06 09:19 AM

This is hardly the place to discuss self defense with any weapon...but one should use the sights on any firearm...there is always time and it makes hitting so much better....you should practice to the point of it being automatic concerning sights, trigger, grip, firing, calling your shot, and the reload...

Red dot lasers have a place in combat during urban fighting, in dim or no light situations, but for defensive situations, they just show the bad guys where you are...let the muzzle flash be the first thing they see...then the advantage shifts to your side...


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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Tightloop]
      #65630 - 10/11/06 11:57 AM

No, this is a perfect place to discuss this. This web site has the greatest collection of firearm bullshiters anywhere. Seriously, I want to buy a handgun soon for home defense and want to here from those who know their shit.

Currently my train of thought is a DAO rail gun in 9mm.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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