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NitroXAdministrator
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Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts
      #258539 - 03/01/15 07:26 PM

Here in SA we have to do a course of instruction before getting a handgun licence. Have done most of that in December, but Christmas has got in the way, so last session is early February.

Joined a new club as part of it, so that's cool and should be fun. Not IPSC but an indoor range. Will join the local IPSC club when I have the licence. This takes the local firearms branch a LONG LONG time to do ie issue the photo ID licence so ,,,

Then have to wait six months before a legally licensed person can buy a handgun .... but the indoor club has handguns for members use so can practice and have fun there.

Then it will take about three months per reports for the local firearms branch to issue a permit to acquire. Not withstanding other problems they have decided to put up starting in 2015 ... which may be a much bigger problem ...

But as a novice to handguns, what do the esteemed members of NE recommend and WHY. Remember it will be IPSC.

Also of consideration, in Aust, we are limited to less than .399 in calibre, unless it is a sport the cops consider need a larger calibre ie where metal plates need to be knocked down is the criteria ... also a maximum of a ten shot magazine ...

Looking forward to suggestions. And also WHY you suggest them.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Rell
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: NitroX]
      #258547 - 04/01/15 12:08 AM

I shoot a little IPSIC on Long Island New York.

I used to use a Sig X6, it is truely awesome. Certainly one of the most accurate and easy to shoot 9mm pistols ever made. Completely reliable and good 20/24 round mags are available. It can use ten round mags but you need a custom mag extension to be able to seat them well with the big mag well.

Once New Yok went to 10 round mags it became less fun and I switched to a Wilson Combat Super Grade CQB in 45acp. Mostly I use 10 round mags but occasionally shoot 8 round mags in single stack division. I also have an Ed Brown 1911 in 9mm and have used it when my 45ACP ammo supply was low. The 9mm is great and I shoot it we a bladetech holster and standard 10 round mags. It's really fun.

I have a tonne of hand guns but shoot the 9mm and 45acp more then all others put together. Get a Kimber 1911 22lr and you can practice drawing, presenting and breaking a double tap all day long for very low cost. Same holsters and grip make muscle memory easier to obtain then switching around with many different makes and models.

I carry an Ed Brown Light Weight Cobra Carry and it really makes for a decent system.

Good luck, it can be quite addictive.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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twoshots
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: Rell]
      #258548 - 04/01/15 01:45 AM

In my area the most popular;

- budget pistols are SW m&p/Glock/springfield XD in 9mm and all are comparable but the M&P is the apparent most popular or maybe the least expensive.

- mid level are sig 226

- mid to high level are 1911

Based on the fact that you are going through a "process" to get it I would go for a quality 1911 in 9mm if you can't get approved for 45.


I chose 1911 after trying many different options as it was similar to the high powers I've trained on and I like the 1911 trigger set up much better than any others with glock being acceptable.

A 1911 properly built will last for a looong time, I have about 7000 rds through my nighthawk grp and it running like a top.

If you are restricted on mag capacity a 1911 just makes sense with its nice slim profile and single stack mags. I can go on in more detail but budget becomes a factor before you narrow down the high end options.

--------------------
n/a

Edited by twoshots (04/01/15 01:52 AM)


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tinker
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: twoshots]
      #258556 - 04/01/15 03:59 AM

I've been running the same kimber 1911 in .45 for nearly 20 years, in competition and as a daily appliance.
Excellent on the IPSC course. Very handy everywhere else.

Are you allowed to go multi caliber?
The 1911 is easily adaptable from .22LR out to .460 Rowland with many choices between, all from the same pistol.



Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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DarylS
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: twoshots]
      #258557 - 04/01/15 04:00 AM

Haven't shot IPSC or IPSC type shooting since the late 80's, very early 90's. I really liked my slightly modified 1911 in .45. I ported the sides of the slide and drilled 3 holes each side of the barrel as per Ed Sanow's (I think it was his) article in a ".45 AUTO magazine I still have. The only other thing I did was fixed sights and a Wilson barrel. Minor changes.

I shot only ball equivalent loads for competition, except for some 300gr. loads I was working with, and the bear loads of 260 Speer at 960fps.
The muzzle showed no rise with the ball loads, making rapid, accurate fire quite simple.

Today, due to the drop in power requirements allowing previously graded minor calibres to compete with with .45's, I lost interest in the sport. IPSC, for me, has turned into a race gun sport - one I am not interested in.

For me, the 1911 is/was where it's at for IPSC. If shooting one of the 9mm calibres - it would be my Colt Police Positive or Ruger Blk. Hawk .357, not a spray and pray fat grip piece of plastic.

These of course are merely personal choices - each to his own.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: DarylS]
      #258559 - 04/01/15 04:21 AM

So far we have used the Glock 19A. I believe that was the model. A S&W semi too, I forget all the following models, but it is the civilian version of the service pistol. A CZ Shadow and a STI. The STI is a 1911 version in 9mm.

Only shot most of these with ten or twenty rounds each so no real comparison so far, but disliked the Glock and the S&W so far. The CZ and the STI were preferable. The CZ has the advantage of being double action as well. The STI is reportedly preferred a lot by the users at the club.

The Glock 19A is a special version made by Glock for Australia. Instead of the muzzle being flush it extends slightly to lengthen the barrel to make it legal under Australia's silly minimum barrel length laws, in the "A" version. I never knew before that after 1999 when the Aust gov't tried to ban a lot of handguns, they purposefully set a minimum barrel length to try to ban almost all handguns then in use.

Also used Ruger revolvers in .357 Mag/.38. Not sure which model. And also some very well used .22 RF's.

When the range reopens I will go for some practice and competition sessions and try them some more. As most of the course has been completed the club allows this until the paper licence is issued and then eventually the photo ID licence which will be probably well into February, March or April. Then SA law requires a new licensee wait six months before purchasing their first handgun, and reportedly they take up to three months now to issue a permit to acquire. I will be seeing how much trouble I have with the "purpose of use" justification seeing I have a fair few long arms and well above their belief at what is a reasonable maximum. Of course ANY long arm can not be used for handgun club use target competitions ... so if any REASONABLE consideration it should not be a problem. We are reportedly limited to a maximum of one new handgun per year of licence so any additional ones will take a long time to acquire.

In most of Australia a handgun can only be owned and used by civilians for target shooting, ie club use.

Regarding multiple calibre and barrel handguns, I believe legally currently in SA this is not a problem. So am interested in that option. Having a semi auto handgun that can take eg a .22 RF barrel and magazine would be good for cheap practice. But only if its primary use is still the main objective.

I will probably rationalise my existing long arms a bit to remove any that I really don't use and/or want. But only after careful consideration ie if they need some disposed of to acquire a new one, then they may come in handy to remove.

We tried to get calibres permitted in amendments in the new law being propsed for IPSC above 9mm in the recent Ministerial meeting, but I can tell you it fell on very deaf ears. I was told by separate Police sources the cops in charge don't like civilian shooters to be better armed than they are ...

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (04/01/15 04:33 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: NitroX]
      #258560 - 04/01/15 04:25 AM

I would like to own in the future subject to funds, legal issues and shooting sport requirements, a 9 mm semi auto suitable for IPSC, a revolver, probably in .357 for Western match and similar and a .22 RF for club use and also cheap practice.

As said above, if the semi auto in 9 mm could take a .22 RF barrel and magazine WELL, and also work optiminally in 9mm for IPSC, then that would certainly save money and simplify things. Also be great practice in .22RF for 9mm, cheaper and handy.

Keep any suggestions coming.

***

I have thought of the SIG and also heard praise of an H&K. But so far not used them.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Yochanan
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: NitroX]
      #258561 - 04/01/15 04:56 AM

Since you are limited to 10 round and nothing greater than .399 I would suggest at 1911 of some sort in 9x19 and second similar (preferably identical) pistol in 38 Super/ 38 super comp/9x23 or what ever in order to shoot in IPSC major class. 1911 is a great platform as there are lots of different accessories and parts available. Sphinx makes very nice pistol in 9x19 and 9x21.

Revolver in 357 mag I would choose a Manurhin MR73.

Custom 1911 costs more a few pretty dollar and so does a Manurhin, but, they are worth it. Since you can only have a few handgun its better to buy quality.

While you are at it, also, get a quality .22lr for bulk practice, there are 1911 versions in .22lr.

Get a Benelli M2 and a semiautomatic in .556/223 of some sort and you are set up for 3-gun matches.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: Yochanan]
      #258562 - 04/01/15 05:18 AM

Yes the .38 Super is the way I would probably go. I had forgotten about that cartridge.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Yochanan
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: NitroX]
      #258565 - 04/01/15 06:09 AM

If 9x19 ammo is easily accessible get a second "upper" for the 1911 to maximise your shooting opportunities.

Various .38's more or less rules the IPSC.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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Rolf
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: Yochanan]
      #258572 - 04/01/15 08:19 AM

Hello John,

I am shooting IPSC in Germany and currently I am using the Heckler&Koch Expert in .40 S&W (Major category) and with a second slide/barrel/magazine set in 9x19 for cheap practise.
This combination I can really recommend if you look for a gun with reliable function and very good precision.

But with the restriction to 10shot magazines I can recommend the original (8 shot) SIG P210 (in the cheaper military/danish model) with some modifications added:
- substitute the standard magazine release at the grip end with a button in the same spot as the Government 1911-model (magazines must also be modified)
- sights should be changed for quicker alignment (standard post and the corresponding notch are narrow)
- safety latch with a small extension
- if you receive a hammer biting into your hand web: a filler can be added

For the SIG P210 there are some .22 RF conversion kits available, even one of SIG.
The quality and reliability of the gun is outstanding and you never have to worry about precision, it´s always the shooter!
I used two SIG P210 in local matches and they never let me down!

best regards
Rolf

PS: In case you visit bavaria, please be invited to try a SIG P210 (with above mentioned modifications) at my local shooting range :-)


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SharpsNitro
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: Rolf]
      #258584 - 04/01/15 04:10 PM

If you are looking at the 9mm or 357 Sig you might want to look at the ZEV Tech Dragonfly. They do some really nice custom Glocks. I have an Ultimate Carry (9mm G26) and a G23 Tier 2 (40 S&W). Unfortunately, ZEV doesn't list their package guns on the website but you can search for them on sites like gunbroker or other dealer sites.

Edited by SharpsNitro (04/01/15 04:12 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #258590 - 04/01/15 05:23 PM

I will see whether the .40 S&W if owned for other shooting competitions, if it can then be used at IPSC shoots. I will have months of waiting so lots of time to work it all out. The indoor club I belong to now would only get me approval up to 9mm.

A .40 S&W combined with 9x19 sounds like another excellent idea.

One of the chief complaints IPSC competitors have in Australia is the restriction to ten shot magazines. They believe correctly it makes them uncompetitive internationally.

The stupid laws assume a "gunman on the rampage" is less dangerous with a ten shot magazine, "run, hide, he is out of ammo!" When of course a new magazine can be very quickly inserted.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (04/01/15 05:39 PM)


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Ripp
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: tinker]
      #258601 - 05/01/15 02:08 AM

Quote:

I've been running the same kimber 1911 in .45 for nearly 20 years, in competition and as a daily appliance.
Excellent on the IPSC course. Very handy everywhere else.

Are you allowed to go multi caliber?
The 1911 is easily adaptable from .22LR out to .460 Rowland with many choices between, all from the same pistol.



Cheers
Tinker




Agree with the above--I have numerous Kimbers and love them..great pistol for the price..

Also have Sigs, HK's, Smiths, Springfields, and Glocks..but like the Kimbers the best

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (05/01/15 02:11 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: Rolf]
      #258603 - 05/01/15 02:59 AM

Quote:



Rolf

PS: In case you visit bavaria, please be invited to try a SIG P210 (with above mentioned modifications) at my local shooting range :-)




Hi Rolf, missed the generous invitation. I would love to, but unless the lottery comes in, not this year. Thanks.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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tinker
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: NitroX]
      #258610 - 05/01/15 04:04 AM

Quote:

One of the chief complaints IPSC competitors have in Australia is the restriction to ten shot magazines 





As a younger hungrier fellow competing IDPA with my .45 I'd consistently place third - behind a total type-A dude with a friggin hotrod Mutant Super38 STI on a peg holster (I shot that thing once - what a freakshow pistol!!) and a super cool highway patrolman Wizard with a S&W 586 (!!!!), scads of holosight widebody ported to death 1911 race gun guys behind us.
I always shot from IWB concealment gear and proper street clothing to keep things real...

A single stack 'issue' 1911 can do it. No worries there at all John.



Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Viking338
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: tinker]
      #258630 - 05/01/15 02:04 PM

I think one of the STI models would suit you depending on your budget. Mine is in 38 Super and it is wonderful to compete with. Some of the other guys use Taurus also and have had no issues with them. My STI is a race gun but I am going to down grade it to a more basic model (Trojan maybe?) and go back to open sights as I feel this is where a hand gun has it's major "practical" use.

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DarylS
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: Viking338]
      #258633 - 05/01/15 02:54 PM

It's quite interesting where IPSC seems headed and where it is today.

When I first started IPSC in 1975/6, a 1911 Remington Rand in decent shape with anew bushing and HB ammo was competitive. Sights helped, of course, but not a lot.

My M29 4" was also competitive, using SPL brass and 17gr. Herc. 2400 with 245gr. Keith's - why? - just because I liked it and did well with that load. Lots of recoil, but young and tough - remember back then? HA! In 82, while on course at the J.I. in Vancouver, I even did well with a borrowed M1917 Colt New Service in .45 Colt.

My 38 Super M1911 could not make major (according to Peter the Power Meter) which is why I re-barreled mine in 1979.

Today, well, too tricky, it's too fast and I'm too crippled.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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twoshots
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: DarylS]
      #258665 - 06/01/15 03:38 AM

Yes,

IDPA is more traditional. In my area most people want to keep it realistic and defensive based but there are some who push the ipsc race route.

I prefer the fight for your life close and quick training and the 1911 is great for that.

--------------------
n/a


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: Viking338]
      #273099 - 12/11/15 03:47 PM

Quote:

I think one of the STI models would suit you depending on your budget. Mine is in 38 Super and it is wonderful to compete with. Some of the other guys use Taurus also and have had no issues with them. My STI is a race gun but I am going to down grade it to a more basic model (Trojan maybe?) and go back to open sights as I feel this is where a hand gun has it's major "practical" use.




Yes I saw some STI models are also available in .38 Super. The model I have tried is the Trojan.

However it is annoying, as ultimately I would go for a 9mm plus a .40 S&W or .45 ACP. Not the .38 Super at all.

While in Vic, a .45 ACP can be purchased for IPSC, here in SA they stick rigidly to the National Firearms Agreement and that means nothing over 9mm for IPSC.

Stll thinking about this.

Good to read your comments. I want to start with the basics with a handgun. Just like everyone (who has adequate eyesight) should learn to shoot a rifle with open sights, before using scopes.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: DarylS]
      #273100 - 12/11/15 03:50 PM

Quote:

It's quite interesting where IPSC seems headed and where it is today

....

Today, well, too tricky, it's too fast and I'm too crippled.




I have no idea. I should actually get to a shoot competition again.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Homer
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: NitroX]
      #273281 - 15/11/15 10:46 AM

G'Day Fella's,

John, I've been shooting IPSC continuously, since 1980, so I may have some useful advice for you.
The best thing I can suggest is, either go to a local gun shop (that has lots of Centrefire Handguns) or to your local IPSC range, on a day that they are shooting, and handle as may different pistols (you did say, you wanted a Semi-Auto), that you can!
The reason I say this is, you can read an magazine article etc on a particular handgun, and think "Thats the one for me"! but if when you finally get a chance to handle one of these, it feels like your hanging onto a Cactus or Dog Turd....... whats the use!
Mate, we all have different size hands and fingers and what works for one person, won't always work for you or me!!!

Luckily, there are so many quality handguns available these days.
Personally, I use a Kimber 1911 stainless target II in .38 Super and a HS-2000 (marketed in the US as the Springfield "XD") in 9x19 Luger. These are both great pistols and I'm very happy with them both!
But these days and after selling a number of them to mates and customers, I'd happily buy an STI 1911 pistol (in 9x19 or .38 Super), as they are probably the best value for money 1911 on the market! By this I mean, well made and very tightly matched and fitted parts (Slide to Frame and Barrel to Slide, etc)! FYI, the Kimber came with a plastic Mainspring Housing, and MIM made internal components etc, which I replaced strait away. But given this, it still shot 2 1/2" 10 shot groups (Hornady 124grn HAP @ 1300fps and in a Ransom Rest), at 50 meters, OUT OF THE BOX!!!

FYI, I am looking at getting a new 9x19mm pistol (just for a change) and the Steyr L9-A1 or maybe the Walther PPQ M2 may be it! I used to own the same but shorter barreled Steyr M-9 (along with a heap of now prohibited handguns), before the Handgun Buy Back scheme, and I really liked it so..................... (FJWH)!
Also, a good mate of mine has just payed for a new Sig Sauer P226 X-Five Classic, in 9x19 as well (It should arrive this week), and these are a very impressive firearm but again, not for everybody.

When it comes to feeding these beasts, you can't go past a Dillon 550B press etc and Dillon Pistol Dies! Contact Mario Mori (Victoria) at www.saffiretrading.com.au for your Dillon bits!

Hope that helps

Also, If I can be of any further assistance, you have my Ph number and email address, so don't hesitate in contacting me!

Regards
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: Homer]
      #273593 - 19/11/15 04:37 PM

Thanks JB.

I'm still trying out various handguns. I didn't get to the range for months, and am NOW (corrected) trying to make up for it.

I was going to ask about SIG's and I see you mention one model. I know they are not cheaply priced. But how do people find them?

I know one of the other members has a Walther. But a number of people advised against them? People always have their personal preferences.

I am inclinded strongly towards a double action semi auto. As wouldn't this be 'safer' and quicker when drawing a handgun from a holster with a round in the chamber?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (19/11/15 05:12 PM)


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DarylS
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: NitroX]
      #273596 - 19/11/15 04:54 PM

Hard to go wrong with a 1911 platform. So many easy non-race mods to help with accuracy and gun handling.
Just looked at a Ruger 1911 yesterday and it seemed a nice solid handgun.
The CZ's, as well, are popular with the 9mm crowd.
IDPA has just started up locally, where I can use my 4" Police Positive or the 4" M29. I like that idea.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Homer
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: DarylS]
      #273627 - 20/11/15 07:58 AM

G'Day Fella's,

John, just keep trying various handguns at the range and LGS, its the best thing you can do.
If you can get to shoot the ones you are more interested in, even better!

Sig Sauer firearms have an exceedingly good reputation!
Some models also have an exceedingly high price.
For example, the P226 X-Five "Classic" that I mentioned above, sold for $4,370.00!!!
And let me say, that despite this Retail price, there wasn't much "Cream" in that sale for me!

As I mentioned, one of the local IPSC shooters uses a Walther PPQ M2, and he really likes it!
John, because I was so impressed with it (PPQ M2), this is why it went onto my "Maybe" list of a new 9mm's.
Also, can I please give all you blokes some good advice. Please don't just listen to other peoples comments with regard to a particular firearms and then dismiss the suitability, design etc, etc of a particular firearms or accessories, suitability and usefulness!
In my experience, most people have little or no real understanding or knowledge of "This, That or Whatever", when it comes to various aspects of various firearms. But when they work in some BORING Uninspiring Job 5 + days a week, and come Sunday, they have an "audience" and the opportunity to actually say something that people will listen to, unfortunately so many of them seem to make the most of this situation!
I must be getting Old!
Don't get me wrong, some of the most profound statements and observations I've ever heard, have come from New Chums (including from Apprentices at Work!). They just see things differently, freshly and from a different perspective and we do need to listen!!!
I suppose what I'm trying to say is, if you are looking for Good, Well Based Advice, speak with and observe the local Champions in action and not the Never Will Be's!
In my experience, most of these great shooters, are very approachable and give freely of their knowledge and advice (just don't be a pest, as it's their Sunday as well)!

John, as Daryl said above!

Double Action Only (DAO) pistols are not very popular in IPSC etc comps.
Personally, and as with most shooting situations, your first shot is the most important one!
Because of this, in my experience, Single Action pistols are the best option.
You do need to Practice, Practice, Practice with your chosen pistol/s (at home and with Dummy Ammo in your magazines). Get dressed as you would be at the range, then continue to Draw and Fire (simulated) at a small Dot (I use a 1"/25mm or smaller Black target patch), on a contrasting coloured wall etc, of your garage, workshop.
Focus on this Dot on the wall (for a few seconds and until you are completely relaxed and focused on the job at hand), and without changing your focus, draw the handgun from the holster, only then and when the handgun is pointing in front of your face and "down range", do you look for the Front Sight, then (if it has one), disengage the thumb safety and ONLY THEN, do you PUT YOUR FINGER INSIDE THE TRIGGER GUARD (Read that last line AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! UNDERSTAND!!!!!), then position the front sight just under the Dot on the wall ("6 O'clock Hold"), and pull the trigger!

Then practice doing Magazine Changes/Reloads!
Stand on a piece of carpet etc, thats large enough for the magazines to land on, to cushion their fall (4 Feet square).

My single best bit of advice I can give to everybody is; "You want people to Talk To You....... Not About You"! Please read that last line again!!!
This pertains to SAFETY on the range!
You need to remember what it is we are doing here, and what the ramification of POOR Range Safety could be!!!
I am exceedingly proud of the fact that in 35+ Years and 100,000+ rounds of ammo down range shooting (just) IPSC, I have NEVER once been Disqualified ("DQ'ed") from the range, or had my "On The Line Safety" (or other) questioned!

John (and others), as I have mentioned above, you have my email address, if you have any questions.

Regards
Homer

--------------------
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: Homer]
      #273645 - 20/11/15 03:52 PM

Quote:


Double Action Only (DAO) pistols are not very popular in IPSC etc comps.




I don't think I mentioned a double action ONLY handgun at all. Wouldn't even look at one.

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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: NitroX]
      #273646 - 20/11/15 04:07 PM

Quote:

Thanks JB.

I'm still trying out various handguns. I didn't get to the range for months, and am NOW (corrected) trying to make up for it.

I was going to ask about SIG's and I see you mention one model. I know they are not cheaply priced. But how do people find them?

I know one of the other members has a Walther. But a number of people advised against them? People always have their personal preferences.

I am inclinded strongly towards a double action semi auto. As wouldn't this be 'safer' and quicker when drawing a handgun from a holster with a round in the chamber?




John

I do NOT compete in handgun matches..but do have or have shot most of what has been discussed. I personally own 4 or 5 sigs..very well made and very reliable..my one complaint on them is they sit high in the hand..too high really for my liking for fast target acquisition ..agree with what most on here have said with the 1911 models..again have several of these in various makes..nothing in my mind fits my hand like a nice 1911..and many are now making them in 9mm along with 45acp. If it were me that is the way I would go..as to safety, they are as safe as any of them IMHO

I also have H&K's, tried the new Walther PPQ (nice gun) and have several glocks and springfied armory pistols as well..all nice but still like the 1911 the best and my go to gun for concealed carry.

Ripp

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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: Homer]
      #273659 - 20/11/15 05:06 PM

Quote:


John (and others), as I have mentioned above, you have my email address, if you have any questions.

Regards
Homer




I know your offer is kind but I've got hands on advice by expert covered, almost anyway. he he.




(PS JB, certainly will give you a call on it at the right time. Thanks. )

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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: NitroX]
      #273680 - 21/11/15 01:35 AM

Looks like she is using a Beretta and inside the waist band holsters..

Ripp

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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: Ripp]
      #273917 - 24/11/15 07:01 PM

G'Day Fella's,

No probs John!

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Donuts!
And Lucky Pistol, that Beretta is hey!!!

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: Homer]
      #279833 - 25/03/16 11:55 PM

Will have to give JB-Homer a call.

I am considering a CZ 75 or a CZ 85 in 9mm as a first handgun.

For competition (informal) at the indoor range / association I belong to. And also when I join an IPSC club nearby. Have tried one a fair amount and like it.

Question 1 - what are the differences/good points or bad points between the 75 and the 85?



Something I am also considering is to purchase a barrel/frame/magazine setup (etc) for .22 RF through the same handgun. I like the idea of being able to practice cheaply and an easy way to get a .22 RF handgun without paying the full price and having to wait a year for another permit to acquire.



Question 2. Is this stupid or wise?



I also like the STI Trojan at the club. BUT I am hoping we can get greater than .38 handguns approved for IPSC competition in SA (as they are in Vic and elsewhere). If so I would look at a .40 S&W or >45 ACP in something like the STI. As a second future handgun.

Comments anyone and any pf the above or other advice.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Edited by NitroX (26/03/16 12:26 AM)


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Ripp
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: NitroX]
      #279835 - 26/03/16 12:31 AM

I have NO experience with the CZ handguns...I have numerous handguns in Kimber, Sig, Colt, Glock and S&W...of all, I like the Kimbers the best...all of mine are in either .45 or 10mm..great carry guns, very accurate..etc...

Ripp

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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: Ripp]
      #279848 - 26/03/16 05:35 AM

Some of the guys here use the CZ's when shooting 9mm. One of them, don't know the model is apparently almost competitive right out of the box.

Today, IPSC pretty much demands a race gun. I made "A" back in the late 70's with a stock 1911 nickel plated Colt.
In the 80's I bought my own on which I mounted Millet sights, changed out the barrel to a Wilson match bl., numerous links for perfect lockup and ported the barrel and slide. That's it and THEN, was all I needed. today, I doubt very much that I could be competitive.

IDPA is the new and upcoming handgun sport - back to natural combat course where use of your body's concealment as well as concealed carry is worth more than all the fancy space-age-stuff.

I've yet to try IDPA, but want to do it this summer at our local range, where I can use my Colt Police Positive .38 SPL and 4" M29 with ".44 Special" loads and be competitive.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: DarylS]
      #279869 - 26/03/16 12:04 PM

Thanks Daryl and Art

I'm not too worried about being a top competitor. We need to target shoot to own a handgun and also can only use them legally on a range. Just looking to have fun doing some shooting. And IPSC looks more interesting, at least the last time I attended a shoot, than boring shooting at static targets. Which so far is fine with me, handguns and in fact any range shooting being largely "new" to me.

It will get old eventually.

The indoor club I belong to, has rather informal competition. Just book and shoot a session. Can book two sessions in a day. weekdays, evenings or day times, depneding on the day. Need six to remain legal per year. So not that hard. Some fun shooting when I am down in the city.

There is an IPSC club in my district, about a half hour drive away, and always been interested in that. Except turning up to Saturday shoots and wasting a good weekend.

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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: NitroX]
      #279876 - 26/03/16 01:01 PM

Check out this video until the end ...

https://web.facebook.com/blackflagtac/videos/833015286772441/

--------------------
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: NitroX]
      #279887 - 26/03/16 08:46 PM

Quote:

Check out this video until the end ...

https://web.facebook.com/blackflagtac/videos/833015286772441/




Bloody moron, he could have gotten shot so easily. Safety is always no 1.

John,
There are 22-lr kits for SIG's (called Mosquito) and a number of 1911 guns.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: Yochanan]
      #279890 - 26/03/16 11:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Check out this video until the end ...

https://web.facebook.com/blackflagtac/videos/833015286772441/




Bloody moron, he could have gotten shot so easily. Safety is always no 1.

John,
There are 22-lr kits for SIG's (called Mosquito) and a number of 1911 guns.




yes..I know they are made for Kimbers as well..

Ripp

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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: Ripp]
      #279897 - 27/03/16 03:06 AM

Holy crap!

--------------------
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: NitroX]
      #279921 - 27/03/16 01:15 PM

Quote:

Thanks Daryl and Art

. Just looking to have fun doing some shooting.




Have you had a look at SA or Cowboy?

Its a lot of fun different shoots and ties in pistol, rifle and shotgun. How can that not be fun?

--------------------
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: TonyD227]
      #279935 - 28/03/16 04:38 AM

I know it's been a long time due the hand gun ban here in the UK but when I was shooting Practical Pistol my pitol was a Tanfoglio Ultra in .41AE.

The Tanfoglio Ultra was based on the CZ75 and yes the CZ75 is a good reliable pistol. On my Ultra I had to replace the take down latch as it broke but then I was shooting a lot of ammunition in testing and practice. Running through 300-500 rounds was not that uncommon on a range trip. Just looking at Tanfoglios web site I see the range has changed some but they still do a lot of competition based models.

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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: Brithunter]
      #279940 - 28/03/16 06:21 AM

Locally here, the 'boys' are starting up Cowboy Action Shooting. They're having a lot of fun, but that sport can be expensive.

Let's see:

2 single action revolvers
Period lever of pump action rifle
SXS hammer shotgun (hammers not mandatory)

That's bare minimum.

plus, for those inclined:

2 - cap and ball revolvers
Sharps or rolling block for long range side bet challenges
Lever gun or two or three for side bets,
such as:

Henry, Model 66, Model 73, Model 76, Model 86

It adds up when you go overboard, considering a good (Uberti) 1876 is almost $2,000.00. The others only a little less and the 86 is more, if you can find one.

--------------------
Daryl


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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: DarylS]
      #279949 - 28/03/16 08:36 AM

Your not wrong Daryl, but what else is money for?

I got a Uberti 1866 in 38spcl for $1700 a Stoeger SxS coachgun for $650 and I have two Uberti El Patrons on order for $1800.

Unfortunately now I also have to buy a Pedersoli Sharps Boss for $2300. Yes, "have to"!

The good thing though is everyone is very friendly and helpful.

When I started people lent me rifles and pistols while I decided what I wanted.

Its fun shooting with just enough competition to make you want to do better, but not at the expense of having fun.

Apologies for the highjack Nitrox

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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: TonyD227]
      #280099 - 01/04/16 10:13 AM

G'Day Fella's,

John, have a gander at the CZ "Tactical Sports" model pistol!
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-tactical-sport-9mm-dual-tone-20-rd-mags/
That will probably be my next 9mm!!!

Also John, you can own BOTH a CZ and a STI 1911 pistol!!! ...... and then you will also need a nice centrefire Revolver and a .22LR Semi-Auto pistol as well!!!

LOL!
Homer

--------------------
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Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: TonyD227]
      #280237 - 03/04/16 09:19 PM

Quote:




Apologies for the highjack Nitrox




One of the advantages of being an admin is cutting off off topic posts ...

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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: DarylS]
      #280240 - 03/04/16 09:28 PM

Quote:

Locally here, the 'boys' are starting up Cowboy Action Shooting. They're having a lot of fun, but that sport can be expensive.





Maybe in the future but for every new club I join I would have to attend at least four or six shoots every year ... way too much paper punching for me at the moment.Cowboy action might be of interest sometime in the future but not at the moment. Looking for constructive replies on IPSC handguns. Simple basic semi-auto handguns. maybe with some specialist frills, possibly better sights. Not Glocks, I don't like them and even for my basic skills aren't very accurate.

--------------------
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: Homer]
      #280241 - 03/04/16 09:37 PM

Quote:

G'Day Fella's,

John, have a gander at the CZ "Tactical Sports" model pistol!
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-tactical-sport-9mm-dual-tone-20-rd-mags/
That will probably be my next 9mm!!!

Also John, you can own BOTH a CZ and a STI 1911 pistol!!! ...... and then you will also need a nice centrefire Revolver and a .22LR Semi-Auto pistol as well!!!

LOL!
Homer




Thanks. Look interesting.

Hopefully I will be able to get to the SHOT show thus year and hopefully the distributors of various brands will be there with a variety of handguns to have a look at. CZ was at the last show I went to.

I do intend to have something like an STI in the future. As previously said hoping we can get the .38 and lower restrictions in SA changed in the National Agreement for IPSC as it was a request made to the SA Police. As some other states allow them already. Then a .40 S&W or .46 ACP will be on the cards. If not something like the .38 Super.

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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: NitroX]
      #280366 - 05/04/16 05:06 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Never a problem John, any time I can be of assistance!

Regards
Homer

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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: NitroX]
      #280762 - 12/04/16 09:22 AM

I had a CZ 75 9mm for many years, I shot service match with it when there was only one service match and it was a great little gun, I should have kept it.

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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: iomskp]
      #280764 - 12/04/16 09:36 AM

John - when I first started IPSC back in the 70's, before it turned into a race-gun event, a person could compete with a model 1911 .45, even a mil. handgun in good shape, new link, bushing and maybe barrel. I made "A" (top 10) with a store bought M1911 nickel plate & factory hardball - 56 shooter event. I still preferred my .44 M29, but B was the best I could do with the wheelgun.

One aspect of cowboy action is they also have a category for M1911's. Maybe something to think about?

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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: DarylS]
      #283320 - 03/06/16 05:42 PM

G'Day Fella's,

I think I have found my next 9mm IPSC pistol!
I just did a dealer transfer on a Sphinx SDP, Duo Tone pistol, for a local powder burner.

FYI, they were originally based on CZ 75/Tanfoglio type frames but now, they apparently machine their own pistols complete, in Switzerland.
These days, the frames are made from Two pieces, that may be bolted (?) together.
Either way, they are an exceedingly impressive made pistol, with minimal tight tolerances.........and I forgot to mention, Expensive!

FYI. Enjoy!
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=sphin...AQILA&dpr=1

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: Homer]
      #283522 - 06/06/16 10:45 PM

I.ve shot a lot of different pistols but I was to only allowed one it would be a good quality 1911 my favorite is a 70 series colt its an old ispc from the seventies .ultra smooth,you can buy anything for it.get it tuned by the best.convert it to 460 Rowland with a barrel kit from Clark customs.and have 44 mag.ballistics

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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: ducmarc]
      #283523 - 06/06/16 10:47 PM

there's barrel kits for 7.62x25 too.now that's a hot rod.

--------------------
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: ducmarc]
      #283524 - 06/06/16 10:48 PM

Here in the states at least the resale value can't be beat either

--------------------
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: ducmarc]
      #283537 - 07/06/16 01:01 AM

I shot a Russian 7.62x25 last year at the range - young woman had one - it barked, but was amazingly easy to shoot well with it's typical mil-spec sights - and a bloody accurate pistol it was too. 2" group at 20yards offhand - the entire mag. into 2".

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Re: Handgun for IPSC - your thoughts [Re: NitroX]
      #283547 - 07/06/16 05:36 AM

I recently have done some addl training with a retired Navy Seal..he was shooting a mod 34 Glock in 9mm..tricked out..was really nice to shoot and I am not normally a great Glock fan..

Long story short, my tricked out one should be done mid June..will advise..removed the finger grips, added stippling, new trigger, new sights and different mag release...don't plan to compete but plan to practice at least one day per week, preferably more..business currently has me traveling directly past a gun range one time per week..plan is to pull in and shoot a few boxes before heading home...

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy...

Ripp

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Re: Handgun for IPSC - SIG P226? [Re: Ripp]
      #291563 - 07/12/16 11:12 AM

Anyone have any experience with the SIG P226 or thoughts on it?

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John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - .357 SIG [Re: NitroX]
      #291564 - 07/12/16 11:19 AM

How about the .357 SIG as a chambering?

How does it compare to other cartridges, such as 9mm Para, .40 S&W etc?

Does it qualify as a major IPSC round as does the .38 Super for example? (Note: Remember in Aust calibres over .38 are restricted for many disciplines eg IPSC)


I was told last week however that I should join another range, where for example silhouette comps, guys are using .45 1911 etc.

(Where an argument could be made the additional knockdown power was required to knockdown steel targets, or where the comps were Comnibwealth and Olympic Games comps, exemptions to allow greater calibres were made.)

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John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Homer
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - .357 SIG [Re: NitroX]
      #291761 - 10/12/16 07:59 PM

G'Day Fella's,

NitroX, the .357 Sig is a great cartridge, no doubt about it but I personally believe, it is just a passing Fad whose popularity will fade.
Many of my local IPSC shooters that were bitten by the .357 Sig bug, have now sold there's and moved onto another calibre. In some instances, this has been a .38 Super (1911 type) or just another 9mm Para (Sig Sauer, CZ etc), for which I have been involved.

Whilst I recently "acquired" of another .38 Super (BUL M-5, BUL Custom), I have my mind set on a Sphinx, as my next 9mm Para.

Hope that helps

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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Re: Handgun for IPSC - .357 SIG [Re: Homer]
      #292939 - 01/01/17 07:07 AM

Won't decide until an order goes through but everyone needs a 9mm so perhaps that is what the first will be ...

No one has any experience with the SIG P226 to share?

This is my third year of Christmas and Birthday presents forgone so I think I have paid for it by now !!! Got to get an order going!

(I still want to handle and preferably try out whatever I order first though)

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - .357 SIG [Re: NitroX]
      #293004 - 02/01/17 08:53 AM

G'Day Nitro X and Happy New Year!

Mid 2016, I got in a new Sig 226 X-Five (9mm Para/9x19) for a customer.
John, they really are an exceedingly well made and finished pistol but as you say, you need to handle one first, as they are not for everybody (including myself).

Walther Q-9 is another nice option, along with the various current versions of the CZ 75.

Best Wishes to you all for 2017!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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375Brno
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - .357 SIG [Re: Homer]
      #293123 - 04/01/17 12:22 PM

Homer
I am without handgun which is a gap that needs filling.
I have always liked the P226 without actually handling one. I will do that however your thoughts on why they are not for you would be appreciated.
Rick


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Homer
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - .357 SIG [Re: 375Brno]
      #293166 - 05/01/17 12:05 PM

375 Brno, please don't get me wrong, the Sig Sauer range of pistols are Quality all the way.

In particular, there are two things about the P226 range of pistols, that don't suit me.
1) It doesn't fit my hand shape (and Glocks 17's and 19's are the same).
2) The bore axis, sits a bit high in my hand (recoil leverage is magnified and recoil recovery slows, because of this).

As an example, a couple of weeks ago, one of the IPSC stages I shot, had a series of 5 x cardboard "Shoot" targets. Three were at ground level, each target was placed between and at the rear edge (recessed), of plastic 44 gallon drums (4 drums, 3 targets). Another 2 cardboard "Shoot" targets, were then located on top of the three ground level targets, again, between another three 44 gallon plastic drums.
So we had a pyramid of 4 x 44 gallon drums on the ground, with another 3 x 44 gallon drums sitting on top of the bottom 4 x drums. Between each of the drums, were located a pyramid of 3 and 2 "Shoot" targets. For concealability reasons, all targets were placed at the rear edge of the plastic drums.

The shooter had to start, standing level at one side (either Left or Right, your choice), of the outside edge of these drums, and 1.5 meters back from the leading edge of the drums.
The shooter started with a fully loaded (one up the spout and a full magazine, 10 + 1), and holstered handgun.
At the RO's command (the timers beep), the shooter had to draw and engage all 5 targets with two shots each, and in a safe manner and as quickly as possible whilst moving (in my case L to R), into a position to be able to sight and then engage the targets (both top and bottom).
FYI, I was able to get 2 shots on each target, for a total of 10 shots (but not a "Possible" score), in 3.91 seconds with my stock standard HS-2000 pistol, in 9mm Para (9x19mm).


Sorry for the drawn out "example" fella's but the above I hope, will give you a better understanding of why a "Handgun", has to fit and feel comfortable in YOUR HAND!

375 Brno, I hope that answered your question?

Regards
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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375Brno
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - .357 SIG [Re: Homer]
      #293174 - 05/01/17 01:58 PM

Homer
Thanks for a detailed answer. I think that what you are saying is that you need to be able to recover from the previous shot quickly to be able to get the next away, etc ?
Without having tried it myself that does make sense. Again thanks for taking the time to explain.
Rick


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Re: Handgun for IPSC - .357 SIG [Re: 375Brno]
      #293180 - 05/01/17 02:51 PM

One reason I very much would like to try the handgun first is just this reason, how it feels in the hand when shooting.

For the range guns, I liked the CZ75 at first and still it is an option. Trying out the STI Trojan I just shot better everytime ... Both of these are still options too. I think the Trojans trigger was better. Didn't like the Glock, S&W and Tangfolio at all, other range guns.

The guy that suggested the SIG P226 to me also said it fitted him well, but you would want to try one out first. He is interstate somewhere, Sydney I think, so not an option unless/until I go over there.

I also like the SIG say vs the STI, as it does have a single stack magazine, in case we ever get the right to have more than 10 shot magazines.

Homer, sending you a PM.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (05/01/17 02:53 PM)


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Homer
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - .357 SIG [Re: 375Brno]
      #293186 - 05/01/17 03:26 PM

Quote:

Homer
Thanks for a detailed answer. I think that what you are saying is that you need to be able to recover from the previous shot quickly to be able to get the next away, etc ?
Without having tried it myself that does make sense. Again thanks for taking the time to explain.
Rick




Yes 375 Brno, sorry but that is what I was trying to say.
The better it fits your hand (as does the HS 2000 in my case), the better you can generally shoot it.

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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375Brno
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Re: Handgun for IPSC - .357 SIG [Re: Homer]
      #293192 - 05/01/17 06:55 PM

It was a good explanation Homer. Thanks.

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