Forums.NitroExpress.com

Ramblings...

I don't trust any of the .410 roundball loads as they do not have sufficient velocity from a revolver to provide any hydraulic effect to tissues. Accuracy of the Judge has been very poor for us, and we need to work up better loads overall. I really wanted one badly for a grouse gun to carry while deer hunting, but my experience with the things is so poor that I think I might just buy a cheap 20 gauge single shot shotgun, saw it off to an 8 or so inch barrel, have a PolyChoke fitted, chop the stock down and of course pay Uncle Sam the 200 simolions for the Tax Stamp. The whole affair would still be cheaper than a combination gun!

CNS hits are of course the thing, but reality is they haven't occured for most of my pistoling. And we shoot a lot of little stuff with pistols on the ranch here and while trapping; coyotes, ragged out old layer hens, squirrels, skunks, dogs, cats, coons, etc, along with butcher stock.

Tinker's experience is common. I can relate experience after experience where a pistol shot has failed to stop a smaller animal decisively. Service pistols are poor stoppers because they simply do not have enough energy to "explosively" disrupt tissue AND penetrate like a high velocity rifle round does. With a pistol round, normally you get penetration OR substantial tissue disruption, but not both. And rarely except for the really high velocity rounds is tissue disruption massive.

We have over the years shot many, many critters with .22LR, .32 ACP, .22 Mag, .38 Spec, .38-200/.38 S&W {a real loser if there ever was one...}, 7.62x25, .357 SIG, 9x19, .44 Special, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .44 Magnum, .357 Mag and all except the higher velocity loads in the high velocity rounds perform similarly and unimpressively. Just a few days ago I shot another Ground Squirrel with a solid body hit from a .44 Mag and had the animal crawl into its hole sporting its .44 cal hole. Normal.

From what I've observed, at impact speeds of about 1400 fps and above, SOME fairly dramatic hydraulic effect begins to be noticeable. It is demonstrable in tissue disruption on large muscle groups and can be seen easily when butchering a larger animal. And with smaller ones they begin to be "blown up" noticeably more so than when hit with rounds running slower.

That is one of the reasons I like the 7.62x25 so much. VERY little recoil, very dramatic terminal effect on small animals.

Nothing I've written here should be interpolated to larger animals. On deer-sized game or larger, penetration and heavy bullets are important and the Keith-type bullet is a good choice I suppose, but still, even the .44 Mag is a pop-gun compared to say a .308 at 75 yards, for example. On small animals, those same pistol-round-deer-killers will often perform very poorly. Lethality is certain with all of the above-mentioned rounds, even the pathetically-anemic .32 ACP, but "right-now" stopping power? Not much with most.

Where is the breakoff? An example; Head shot sheep will of course fold if the brain is hit. But often a sheep's head will turn a bullet, or the bullet will not strike brain because of the size of the tiny thing {brain...} and the mass of bone, depending on angle of shot. The .22LR, .38 Spec, 9x19, .45 ACP with solid or FMJ bullets have all failed on head shots from time to time. HP's in 7.62x25, .357 Mag and .44 Mag provide much more dramatic effect precisely and observably because they send bone shards all over and provide much more dramatic trauma even on marginal head shots. Seems simple, but until a fellow sees a sheep shot in the head with a .45 ACP that simply looks at him and runs off, the guy is probably thinking the .45 ACP is a "stopper" that would drop a sheep on any solid head shot. Not so.

As for FMJ's, I cannot tell the difference between the .45 ACP and 9x19 on body shots on small stuff or sheep to over 200 lbs. None at all.

So what to use for the rabid fox?

IMO, based on my experience, the 7.62x25 with a good fast-opening HP. Only problem is that none of the pistols that chamber it can safely be carried with a round in the chamber. I carry my Tok's everywhere, but am forced to rack the slide before shooting and unload chamber before holstering. THAT is why I desperately want to see a modern pistol chambered in that superb caliber.

Or in a modern wheelgun, tho I don't own one, the .327 Ruger HAS to be superb, and IMO probably the best pistol made for 99.9% of what a pistol is called upon to do in the field for 99.9% of the people. I want one.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?