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hoppdoc
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Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type??
      #109832 - 16/07/08 10:16 AM

> On sheep, wolves and sheepdogs--

A Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said
> this to me: "Most
> of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind,
> gentle, productive
> creatures who can only hurt one another by accident."
> This is true.
> Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and
> the aggravated
> assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another.

> Some people may be destined to be sheep and others
> might be genetically
> primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most
> people can choose
> which one they want to be. If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen: a sheep.

If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for
> your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive
> sociopath, a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your
> fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a
> warrior, someone who
> is walking the hero's path. Someone who can walk into
> the heart of
> darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out
> unscathed.


Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens
> in America said, "Thank God I wasn't on one of
> those planes." The sheepdogs,the warriors, said, "Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those
> planes. Maybe I could have made a difference." When
> you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.

What type best fits your persona??

> Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001,
> Todd Beamer was
> honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as
> you recall, was
> the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his
> cell phone to alert
> an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When
> he learned of the
> other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons,
> Todd dropped his
> phone and uttered the words, "Let's roll,"
> which authorities believe was a
> signal to the other passengers to confront the terrorist
> hijackers. In one
> hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers -
> athletes, business
> people and parents.

> -- from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the
> wolves, ultimately
>
> saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.
>
>
>
> There is no safety for honest men except by believing
> all possible evil--
> Edmund Burke on evil men
>
>
>
> Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to
> the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves.
> They didn't have a choice. But you are not a critter.
> As a human being,you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious,moral decision.

> If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and
> that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes,you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a "sheepdog" there to protect you.
> If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a "sheepdog" and walk the warrior's path, then
> you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.

> For example, many officers carry their weapons in
> church. They are well
> concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or
> inside-the-belt holsters
> tucked into the small of their backs. Anytime you go to
> some form of
> religious service, there is a very good chance that a
> police officer in your
> congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is
> such an individual
> in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to
> massacre you and your
> loved ones.

> I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break,one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why
> he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop
> he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning
> down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he
> could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot,and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die.
> That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have
> any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"
>
>
>
> Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this
> police officer was
> carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid
> and would
> probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be
> enraged and would
> call for "heads to roll" if they found out that
> the airbags in their cars
> were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire
> sprinklers in their
> kids' school did not work. They can accept the fact
> that fires and traffic
> accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards
> against them.
>
>
>
> Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all
> too often their
> response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the
> sheepdog quietly
> asks himself, "Do you have and idea how hard it would
> be to live with
> yourself if your loved ones attacked and killed, and you
> had to stand there
> helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?"
>
>
>
> It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are
> psychologically
>
> destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial,
> which is
>
> counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear,
> helplessness and
> horror when the wolf shows up.
>
>
>
> Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your
> moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy.
> Denial kills you a second time because even if you do
> physically survive, and you are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at your moment of truth.
>
>
>
> Gavin de Becker puts it like this in Fear Less, his
> superb post-9/11book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation:
>
>
>
> ...denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side
> effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn't so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling.
>
>
>
> Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract
> written entirely in
> small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows
> the truth on some
> level.
>
>
>
> And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in
> all aspects of his
> life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes.
>
>
>
> If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep,pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, for a lifetime.
>
>
>
> Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon,and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath,and say this to yourself... "Baa."
>
>
>
> This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a
> yes-no dichotomy.
> It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a
> matter of degrees, a
> continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep
> and on the other
> end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely
> on one end or the
> other. Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11
> almost everyone in
> America took a step up that continuum, away from denial.
> The sheep took a
> few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors,
> and the warriors
> started taking their job more seriously. The degree to
> which you move up
> that continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the
> degree to which you
> and your loved ones will survive, physically and
> psychologically at your
> moment of truth.

This is why I feel folks should carry a gun virtually everywhere. Could I live with myself if something occurred and I could have stopped it? Dunno, but I sure don't plan on having to find out---

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (16/07/08 08:37 PM)


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bigmaxx
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #109835 - 16/07/08 11:54 AM

Very Good. Have Glock, will travel.

--------------------
One day at a time...


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Marrakai
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Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: bigmaxx]
      #109843 - 16/07/08 01:38 PM

You Americans crack me up!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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hoppdoc
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Marrakai]
      #109846 - 16/07/08 02:31 PM

Well, although initially the constant carry concept seems absurd to logical people but after you become aware of the frequency,ethnicity,drug associated,evil,random nature of catastrophic violence inflicted randomly on innocents here in America between both metropolis I live between --Gun carry then makes incredible sense.Denial is stupidity!!

One of my goals--is to work to retirement and move from the Southeast to the Northwest!!
Why? It would be a move to a racially homogenous,financially stable environment where the statistical probablity of such violence is infinitesmally smaller than the present societal environment I live in--no bias here but the situation is what it is--

Handgun carry?? A local phenomenom? Food for thought here as--Bad Sh*t Does Happen!! Don't care?? No Problem!!Press on! Hope all your choices work for you!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (16/07/08 08:27 PM)


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tinker
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #109850 - 16/07/08 02:54 PM

Not much to say here, besides this-

Where I live, in many ways - more than not, I'm the minority.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Ripp
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Posts: 16072
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: tinker]
      #109869 - 17/07/08 12:01 AM

Quote:

Not much to say here, besides this-

Where I live, in many ways - more than not, I'm the minority.



--Tinker





My response to that and Hoppdoc's place he wants to move too...where I live--Northwest-- I am NOT...

and glad of it...but still carry....NEVER want to be a sheep...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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9.3x57
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #109876 - 17/07/08 01:25 AM

Quote:

One of my goals--is to work to retirement and move from the Southeast to the Northwest!!
Why? It would be a move to a racially homogenous,financially stable environment where the statistical probablity of such violence is infinitesmally smaller than the present societal environment I live in--no bias here but the situation is what it is--




Interesting and possibly somewhat idealistic view of the "Northwest".

Crime is, of course, reported very differently in small communities than it is in large ones. But I get your point.

By the way, in a 20 mile radius of my county seat {the county has 9,000 souls}, we have had 5 reported murders in the last 3 years. Not Dodge City, but not Mayberry RFD, either.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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hoppdoc
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #109888 - 17/07/08 04:46 AM

9ThreeXFifty7--

Sir-

We have had 19 murders in 7 months in a city of 35,000!!

We had over 20 local ethnic individuals involved in a Crack Ring arrested by the Feds in June--and these were just the underlings!!

You can't go to Walmart at night without risking thugs keying your car and hassling you for change or worse--

I had an office managers assaulted and maced while going to the bank this week and a manager of a movie rental store robbed at gunpoint 2 weeks ago.Too frequent as such events are usually seen months apart.

And folks wonder why I carry all the time, even to church!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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9.3x57
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #109889 - 17/07/08 05:05 AM

I don't wonder why.

I myself grew up in south Jersey right across the river from Philly, worked in Camden, NJ and have spent a fair amount of time in various metro areas with very high crime rates so I do understand your concerns. Just making the point that we do have many who come here who for one reason or another think it would be different than they supposed.

For myself, I wound up here and have no plans to leave.

This, in spite of the fact that the Northwest is the most crime-ridden, wretched, inhospitable, violent, dirty, seedy, flatulent, disgusting, trashy, overpopulated and ugly part of the entire USA. Visitors always leave disappointed, those who never come in the first place are far better off. Women always hate it here, and men find themselves bored to tears.



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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hoppdoc
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #109891 - 17/07/08 06:46 AM

Yup,

Terrible place to live, I know--That's why I dislike it enough to RETURN after being there in Idaho in the Air Force for years and years.

Now I am definitely gonna be moving up there somewhere in the Idaho, Montana,Washington area to retire.

But after I get there I know I will be telling folks how terrible it is --so they will stay away!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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zimhunter
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #109894 - 17/07/08 07:20 AM

I am neither a sheep,sheepdog nor wolf. I am a HUMAN animal with all the gifts that go with that species. I did not JOIN the army I was drafted but I did not run away and went and while I will not shrink from danger neither will I welcome it or go out of my way to encounter it and certainly will not feel I have done anything extraordinary if I confront it. I have had a carry permit in several states over many many years and while I do not carry at ALL times when I DO the question becomes whether I am prepared for the responsibility that comes with it. I am, the question is, are you. I do not eagerly anticipate a confrontation and in fact greatly fear one. Lest you think I live in a tranquil area I can assure you that murder,mayhem and drug violence along with smuggling of human beings is quite common here within 40 miles of the Mexican border and home invasions are growing less infrequent by the week. Do you carry in your home and answer the door with a weapon in hand. Some here do and with good cause. The burden you accept when you carry concealed is a heavy one and you must examine yourself very carefully when doing so. Bravado won't get it.

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hoppdoc
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: zimhunter]
      #109899 - 17/07/08 09:11 AM

Don't like the presentation??--Sorry!!

The purpose of the thread--To get more people carrying and practicing with their carry guns.Those who don't want to won't do it and if fate is cruel possibly suffer.The benfit?? Maybe someone will stop a tragedy in progress and save innocents.

Bravado??-Call it positive reinforcement.Do I boast with friends?? Nope-More like prompt myself-Maybe only 4 people know I carry regularly, the wife, the local sheriff,a shooting buddy,and a fellow physician.Those folks and cyberspace I guess.

Do I train? Some, but not hardly any in the last 5 months due to family issues.

Could I apply deadly force?? I don't know but I hope I could act if the situation called for action.Talk is cheap--
my words included.Violent cction can be final.

Still,I would rather have a gun in my hand than disbelief at violence suddenly coming home to roost.

Edited by hoppdoc (17/07/08 11:54 AM)


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Ripp
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #109918 - 17/07/08 11:25 PM

Quote:

Yup,

But after I get there I know I will be telling folks how terrible it is --so they will stay away!!





Seems to be a lot of that going on...even in Mayberry...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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CowboyCS
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Ripp]
      #109920 - 17/07/08 11:36 PM

I would add to your narrative that, not all wolves come in the form of armed thugs, sometimes the wolves dress in high dollar suit and slowly kill the sheep with a ball point pen. Sheepdogs don't really care for the sheep, they just understand their responsibility, and also realize that by not protecting the sheep they are leaving themselves vulnerable to the wolves.

C

--------------------
The Bill of Rights- Void were prohibited by law
Stolzer & Son's Gunsmithing


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bigmaxx
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: CowboyCS]
      #109923 - 18/07/08 01:45 AM

I'm sorry, but I dont put all my eggs in the statistics basket. We have had school shootings, workplace shootings, and a host of violent shootouts and criminal activities in the smalls towns around Kentucky that you would normally consider safe. Statistics can tell us what is probable. I carry a concealed firearm because of the improbable. The freak chance. The once in a lifetime occurance that would end my life or change it forever; or my families, or the innocent person I want to protect. I am a person who is alive today despite statistic, despite odds. I feel that a man with some degree of proficiency with a firearm, sound judgement, and a well defined set of morals, is obligated to be prepared to be of the most service to others (as well as himself) that he can be. I dont just carry a firearm in this belief, I have in my truck: first aid supplies, dependable flashlights, and other emergency gear. I feel secure and prepared when I leave home. I keep a rifle in the toolbox of my truck also. Any of those items could be needed at any time. I dont relish the idea of spending the rest of my life wishing I had been prepared for the improbable event that changed my life forever.

--------------------
One day at a time...


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iqbal
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #109924 - 18/07/08 02:04 AM

Just like your cities in the Nortwest we have our share of problems to.Karachi used to be a safe and fun city,not any more.An appreciable rise in kidnappings,murders,muggings,carjacking and other crimes has made it a dangerous place to live.On top of all that there is the occasional suicide bombing.Those who can afford it are sending their children abroad for fear that they may be kidnapped.I never used to carry a weapon but started doing so because i used to carry cash to the bank but now i do so to protect myself from the bad guys.Will i ever use it is a question i ask myself often and the thought that comes to mind is that 'I WILL' else why would i carry.

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Ripp
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: iqbal]
      #109953 - 18/07/08 01:38 PM

Heard an interesting remark on the "Glen Beck" show the other day..I don't remember the law or act..however, it states apparently, the the police are here to protect the masses..and the priority is not just one individual...so if all hell breaks loose..basically you are on your own...

I am sure there are those on this site who are a whole lot more informed on this than me..and could possibly expound on this topic...

...but as I am sure most of you have heard the saying...I would much rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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dale
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Ripp]
      #109960 - 18/07/08 04:07 PM

great thread and it would be hard to say everything without timing out but as I guess I'm an old man now I am getting very windy. I carry and have carried for nearly 30 years. My Dad, brother,one of my sisters, and my wife all "pack". I honestly don't think it matters where you live, be it a small town or large city the chances of a serious problem are about the same for everyone. While some individuals are in high risk areas and prone to more problems the chances of a fluke situation are always there. It happens everyday. I look at a pistol much like a life preserver on a boat, might never need it but it's reassuring to know it's there.

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hoppdoc
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: dale]
      #109969 - 18/07/08 10:50 PM

Years ago I treated a lady whose husband was a no good POS felon--

He met his end when he and a partner demanded money and physically assaulted an older fella in his 70's(rumor was he had alot cash lying around) who lived alone.He would just sit on his porch in a rocking chair passing the time.Seems the older gentleman had a habit of carrying a loaded 38 snub in his overalls.The POS got shot three times and was found dead at the scene.His partner was caught shortly afterwards.

The older fella was never charged/brought before a grand jury that I am aware of.Justice was already served.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #110006 - 19/07/08 03:39 PM

No lions?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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hoppdoc
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: NitroX]
      #110022 - 19/07/08 10:07 PM

No problems, John!!

We can make up a lion,hyena analogy!!

A sheepdog over sheep?? I agree the sheepdog analogy doesn't seem too terribly impressive but that's what the fellow used.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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eljefedouble
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #111018 - 04/08/08 03:16 AM

Hey Hoppdoc, i agree with you. As an ER Physician, in a suburb of delhi, I see enough violence in a day to make me wonder whether this is a suburb of the capital of our country or dodge city...and no, i CANT carry! the gun laws are so strict, i am awaiting a licence I APPLIED FOR 6 MONTHS AGO, while the frindly neighbourhood thug has access to every thing from Ak's to taurus 9 mils to chinese tokarev clones. Closest we (wife is also a doc)have by way of protection, is some really wicked and potent pepper spray and a couple of spyderco clip it.
I was in jersey City a while ago and hit the hotel after the conference-didnt come out till the next morning-I hope I dont learn the hard way, but is it really that bad?
I own guns, but in another state , and dificult to transfer .bureaucracy rules!

--------------------
"it dont mean a thing, if it aint got no zing"
"Toa bunduki mkubwa"


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szihn
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Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: eljefedouble]
      #111020 - 04/08/08 04:04 AM

Sounds like you should move to Wyoming, USA Eljefedouble. I am sure you and your wife would be most welcome.
Many of us here carry handguns at all times.
We have on of the lowest rates of violent crime in the nation, and the world.

huh.......... Wonder why that is?

Crime only decreases when being a criminal is more dangerous than being a victim.


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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: eljefedouble]
      #111022 - 04/08/08 06:19 AM

I am between two high crime cities ranked in the top ten in the nation.

One of these cities policeman has told me since the price of gas has gone up robberies have gone way up.The local cities Burger King and Arby's are closing early because they get robbed so many times.The police just report the incident and if no one was hurt nothing further is pursued.Not enough manpower.

Frankly I want to be outa this ethnic h*ll and retire to the Northwest, maybe Boise or Washington State where people have less chronic crime to deal with.The need for income keeps me here for the next 7 years to reach certain monetary goals--if the Democrats don't screw everything up.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #111042 - 04/08/08 12:48 PM

One year, the city I live in had 535 Murders.

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