Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type??

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Handguns

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | >> (show all)
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type??
      #109832 - 16/07/08 10:16 AM

> On sheep, wolves and sheepdogs--

A Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said
> this to me: "Most
> of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind,
> gentle, productive
> creatures who can only hurt one another by accident."
> This is true.
> Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and
> the aggravated
> assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another.

> Some people may be destined to be sheep and others
> might be genetically
> primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most
> people can choose
> which one they want to be. If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen: a sheep.

If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for
> your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive
> sociopath, a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your
> fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a
> warrior, someone who
> is walking the hero's path. Someone who can walk into
> the heart of
> darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out
> unscathed.


Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens
> in America said, "Thank God I wasn't on one of
> those planes." The sheepdogs,the warriors, said, "Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those
> planes. Maybe I could have made a difference." When
> you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.

What type best fits your persona??

> Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001,
> Todd Beamer was
> honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as
> you recall, was
> the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his
> cell phone to alert
> an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When
> he learned of the
> other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons,
> Todd dropped his
> phone and uttered the words, "Let's roll,"
> which authorities believe was a
> signal to the other passengers to confront the terrorist
> hijackers. In one
> hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers -
> athletes, business
> people and parents.

> -- from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the
> wolves, ultimately
>
> saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.
>
>
>
> There is no safety for honest men except by believing
> all possible evil--
> Edmund Burke on evil men
>
>
>
> Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to
> the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves.
> They didn't have a choice. But you are not a critter.
> As a human being,you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious,moral decision.

> If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and
> that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes,you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a "sheepdog" there to protect you.
> If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a "sheepdog" and walk the warrior's path, then
> you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.

> For example, many officers carry their weapons in
> church. They are well
> concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or
> inside-the-belt holsters
> tucked into the small of their backs. Anytime you go to
> some form of
> religious service, there is a very good chance that a
> police officer in your
> congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is
> such an individual
> in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to
> massacre you and your
> loved ones.

> I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break,one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why
> he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop
> he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning
> down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he
> could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot,and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die.
> That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have
> any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"
>
>
>
> Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this
> police officer was
> carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid
> and would
> probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be
> enraged and would
> call for "heads to roll" if they found out that
> the airbags in their cars
> were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire
> sprinklers in their
> kids' school did not work. They can accept the fact
> that fires and traffic
> accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards
> against them.
>
>
>
> Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all
> too often their
> response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the
> sheepdog quietly
> asks himself, "Do you have and idea how hard it would
> be to live with
> yourself if your loved ones attacked and killed, and you
> had to stand there
> helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?"
>
>
>
> It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are
> psychologically
>
> destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial,
> which is
>
> counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear,
> helplessness and
> horror when the wolf shows up.
>
>
>
> Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your
> moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy.
> Denial kills you a second time because even if you do
> physically survive, and you are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at your moment of truth.
>
>
>
> Gavin de Becker puts it like this in Fear Less, his
> superb post-9/11book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation:
>
>
>
> ...denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side
> effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn't so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling.
>
>
>
> Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract
> written entirely in
> small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows
> the truth on some
> level.
>
>
>
> And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in
> all aspects of his
> life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes.
>
>
>
> If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep,pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, for a lifetime.
>
>
>
> Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon,and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath,and say this to yourself... "Baa."
>
>
>
> This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a
> yes-no dichotomy.
> It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a
> matter of degrees, a
> continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep
> and on the other
> end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely
> on one end or the
> other. Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11
> almost everyone in
> America took a step up that continuum, away from denial.
> The sheep took a
> few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors,
> and the warriors
> started taking their job more seriously. The degree to
> which you move up
> that continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the
> degree to which you
> and your loved ones will survive, physically and
> psychologically at your
> moment of truth.

This is why I feel folks should carry a gun virtually everywhere. Could I live with myself if something occurred and I could have stopped it? Dunno, but I sure don't plan on having to find out---

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (16/07/08 08:37 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #109835 - 16/07/08 11:54 AM

Very Good. Have Glock, will travel.

--------------------
One day at a time...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3475
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: bigmaxx]
      #109843 - 16/07/08 01:38 PM

You Americans crack me up!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Marrakai]
      #109846 - 16/07/08 02:31 PM

Well, although initially the constant carry concept seems absurd to logical people but after you become aware of the frequency,ethnicity,drug associated,evil,random nature of catastrophic violence inflicted randomly on innocents here in America between both metropolis I live between --Gun carry then makes incredible sense.Denial is stupidity!!

One of my goals--is to work to retirement and move from the Southeast to the Northwest!!
Why? It would be a move to a racially homogenous,financially stable environment where the statistical probablity of such violence is infinitesmally smaller than the present societal environment I live in--no bias here but the situation is what it is--

Handgun carry?? A local phenomenom? Food for thought here as--Bad Sh*t Does Happen!! Don't care?? No Problem!!Press on! Hope all your choices work for you!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (16/07/08 08:27 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #109850 - 16/07/08 02:54 PM

Not much to say here, besides this-

Where I live, in many ways - more than not, I'm the minority.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: tinker]
      #109869 - 17/07/08 12:01 AM

Quote:

Not much to say here, besides this-

Where I live, in many ways - more than not, I'm the minority.



--Tinker





My response to that and Hoppdoc's place he wants to move too...where I live--Northwest-- I am NOT...

and glad of it...but still carry....NEVER want to be a sheep...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #109876 - 17/07/08 01:25 AM

Quote:

One of my goals--is to work to retirement and move from the Southeast to the Northwest!!
Why? It would be a move to a racially homogenous,financially stable environment where the statistical probablity of such violence is infinitesmally smaller than the present societal environment I live in--no bias here but the situation is what it is--




Interesting and possibly somewhat idealistic view of the "Northwest".

Crime is, of course, reported very differently in small communities than it is in large ones. But I get your point.

By the way, in a 20 mile radius of my county seat {the county has 9,000 souls}, we have had 5 reported murders in the last 3 years. Not Dodge City, but not Mayberry RFD, either.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #109888 - 17/07/08 04:46 AM

9ThreeXFifty7--

Sir-

We have had 19 murders in 7 months in a city of 35,000!!

We had over 20 local ethnic individuals involved in a Crack Ring arrested by the Feds in June--and these were just the underlings!!

You can't go to Walmart at night without risking thugs keying your car and hassling you for change or worse--

I had an office managers assaulted and maced while going to the bank this week and a manager of a movie rental store robbed at gunpoint 2 weeks ago.Too frequent as such events are usually seen months apart.

And folks wonder why I carry all the time, even to church!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #109889 - 17/07/08 05:05 AM

I don't wonder why.

I myself grew up in south Jersey right across the river from Philly, worked in Camden, NJ and have spent a fair amount of time in various metro areas with very high crime rates so I do understand your concerns. Just making the point that we do have many who come here who for one reason or another think it would be different than they supposed.

For myself, I wound up here and have no plans to leave.

This, in spite of the fact that the Northwest is the most crime-ridden, wretched, inhospitable, violent, dirty, seedy, flatulent, disgusting, trashy, overpopulated and ugly part of the entire USA. Visitors always leave disappointed, those who never come in the first place are far better off. Women always hate it here, and men find themselves bored to tears.



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #109891 - 17/07/08 06:46 AM

Yup,

Terrible place to live, I know--That's why I dislike it enough to RETURN after being there in Idaho in the Air Force for years and years.

Now I am definitely gonna be moving up there somewhere in the Idaho, Montana,Washington area to retire.

But after I get there I know I will be telling folks how terrible it is --so they will stay away!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
zimhunter
.333 member


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #109894 - 17/07/08 07:20 AM

I am neither a sheep,sheepdog nor wolf. I am a HUMAN animal with all the gifts that go with that species. I did not JOIN the army I was drafted but I did not run away and went and while I will not shrink from danger neither will I welcome it or go out of my way to encounter it and certainly will not feel I have done anything extraordinary if I confront it. I have had a carry permit in several states over many many years and while I do not carry at ALL times when I DO the question becomes whether I am prepared for the responsibility that comes with it. I am, the question is, are you. I do not eagerly anticipate a confrontation and in fact greatly fear one. Lest you think I live in a tranquil area I can assure you that murder,mayhem and drug violence along with smuggling of human beings is quite common here within 40 miles of the Mexican border and home invasions are growing less infrequent by the week. Do you carry in your home and answer the door with a weapon in hand. Some here do and with good cause. The burden you accept when you carry concealed is a heavy one and you must examine yourself very carefully when doing so. Bravado won't get it.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: zimhunter]
      #109899 - 17/07/08 09:11 AM

Don't like the presentation??--Sorry!!

The purpose of the thread--To get more people carrying and practicing with their carry guns.Those who don't want to won't do it and if fate is cruel possibly suffer.The benfit?? Maybe someone will stop a tragedy in progress and save innocents.

Bravado??-Call it positive reinforcement.Do I boast with friends?? Nope-More like prompt myself-Maybe only 4 people know I carry regularly, the wife, the local sheriff,a shooting buddy,and a fellow physician.Those folks and cyberspace I guess.

Do I train? Some, but not hardly any in the last 5 months due to family issues.

Could I apply deadly force?? I don't know but I hope I could act if the situation called for action.Talk is cheap--
my words included.Violent cction can be final.

Still,I would rather have a gun in my hand than disbelief at violence suddenly coming home to roost.

Edited by hoppdoc (17/07/08 11:54 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #109918 - 17/07/08 11:25 PM

Quote:

Yup,

But after I get there I know I will be telling folks how terrible it is --so they will stay away!!





Seems to be a lot of that going on...even in Mayberry...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CowboyCS
.333 member


Reged: 05/10/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Kansas u.S.A.
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Ripp]
      #109920 - 17/07/08 11:36 PM

I would add to your narrative that, not all wolves come in the form of armed thugs, sometimes the wolves dress in high dollar suit and slowly kill the sheep with a ball point pen. Sheepdogs don't really care for the sheep, they just understand their responsibility, and also realize that by not protecting the sheep they are leaving themselves vulnerable to the wolves.

C

--------------------
The Bill of Rights- Void were prohibited by law
Stolzer & Son's Gunsmithing


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: CowboyCS]
      #109923 - 18/07/08 01:45 AM

I'm sorry, but I dont put all my eggs in the statistics basket. We have had school shootings, workplace shootings, and a host of violent shootouts and criminal activities in the smalls towns around Kentucky that you would normally consider safe. Statistics can tell us what is probable. I carry a concealed firearm because of the improbable. The freak chance. The once in a lifetime occurance that would end my life or change it forever; or my families, or the innocent person I want to protect. I am a person who is alive today despite statistic, despite odds. I feel that a man with some degree of proficiency with a firearm, sound judgement, and a well defined set of morals, is obligated to be prepared to be of the most service to others (as well as himself) that he can be. I dont just carry a firearm in this belief, I have in my truck: first aid supplies, dependable flashlights, and other emergency gear. I feel secure and prepared when I leave home. I keep a rifle in the toolbox of my truck also. Any of those items could be needed at any time. I dont relish the idea of spending the rest of my life wishing I had been prepared for the improbable event that changed my life forever.

--------------------
One day at a time...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
iqbal
resigned as a member


Reged: 05/02/03
Posts: 778
Loc: Karachi,Pakistan
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #109924 - 18/07/08 02:04 AM

Just like your cities in the Nortwest we have our share of problems to.Karachi used to be a safe and fun city,not any more.An appreciable rise in kidnappings,murders,muggings,carjacking and other crimes has made it a dangerous place to live.On top of all that there is the occasional suicide bombing.Those who can afford it are sending their children abroad for fear that they may be kidnapped.I never used to carry a weapon but started doing so because i used to carry cash to the bank but now i do so to protect myself from the bad guys.Will i ever use it is a question i ask myself often and the thought that comes to mind is that 'I WILL' else why would i carry.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: iqbal]
      #109953 - 18/07/08 01:38 PM

Heard an interesting remark on the "Glen Beck" show the other day..I don't remember the law or act..however, it states apparently, the the police are here to protect the masses..and the priority is not just one individual...so if all hell breaks loose..basically you are on your own...

I am sure there are those on this site who are a whole lot more informed on this than me..and could possibly expound on this topic...

...but as I am sure most of you have heard the saying...I would much rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dale
.333 member


Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 341
Loc: logan W.V.
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Ripp]
      #109960 - 18/07/08 04:07 PM

great thread and it would be hard to say everything without timing out but as I guess I'm an old man now I am getting very windy. I carry and have carried for nearly 30 years. My Dad, brother,one of my sisters, and my wife all "pack". I honestly don't think it matters where you live, be it a small town or large city the chances of a serious problem are about the same for everyone. While some individuals are in high risk areas and prone to more problems the chances of a fluke situation are always there. It happens everyday. I look at a pistol much like a life preserver on a boat, might never need it but it's reassuring to know it's there.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: dale]
      #109969 - 18/07/08 10:50 PM

Years ago I treated a lady whose husband was a no good POS felon--

He met his end when he and a partner demanded money and physically assaulted an older fella in his 70's(rumor was he had alot cash lying around) who lived alone.He would just sit on his porch in a rocking chair passing the time.Seems the older gentleman had a habit of carrying a loaded 38 snub in his overalls.The POS got shot three times and was found dead at the scene.His partner was caught shortly afterwards.

The older fella was never charged/brought before a grand jury that I am aware of.Justice was already served.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #110006 - 19/07/08 03:39 PM

No lions?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: NitroX]
      #110022 - 19/07/08 10:07 PM

No problems, John!!

We can make up a lion,hyena analogy!!

A sheepdog over sheep?? I agree the sheepdog analogy doesn't seem too terribly impressive but that's what the fellow used.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
eljefedouble
.300 member


Reged: 23/04/06
Posts: 189
Loc: Vic, Australia
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #111018 - 04/08/08 03:16 AM

Hey Hoppdoc, i agree with you. As an ER Physician, in a suburb of delhi, I see enough violence in a day to make me wonder whether this is a suburb of the capital of our country or dodge city...and no, i CANT carry! the gun laws are so strict, i am awaiting a licence I APPLIED FOR 6 MONTHS AGO, while the frindly neighbourhood thug has access to every thing from Ak's to taurus 9 mils to chinese tokarev clones. Closest we (wife is also a doc)have by way of protection, is some really wicked and potent pepper spray and a couple of spyderco clip it.
I was in jersey City a while ago and hit the hotel after the conference-didnt come out till the next morning-I hope I dont learn the hard way, but is it really that bad?
I own guns, but in another state , and dificult to transfer .bureaucracy rules!

--------------------
"it dont mean a thing, if it aint got no zing"
"Toa bunduki mkubwa"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2101
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: eljefedouble]
      #111020 - 04/08/08 04:04 AM

Sounds like you should move to Wyoming, USA Eljefedouble. I am sure you and your wife would be most welcome.
Many of us here carry handguns at all times.
We have on of the lowest rates of violent crime in the nation, and the world.

huh.......... Wonder why that is?

Crime only decreases when being a criminal is more dangerous than being a victim.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: eljefedouble]
      #111022 - 04/08/08 06:19 AM

I am between two high crime cities ranked in the top ten in the nation.

One of these cities policeman has told me since the price of gas has gone up robberies have gone way up.The local cities Burger King and Arby's are closing early because they get robbed so many times.The police just report the incident and if no one was hurt nothing further is pursued.Not enough manpower.

Frankly I want to be outa this ethnic h*ll and retire to the Northwest, maybe Boise or Washington State where people have less chronic crime to deal with.The need for income keeps me here for the next 7 years to reach certain monetary goals--if the Democrats don't screw everything up.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #111042 - 04/08/08 12:48 PM

One year, the city I live in had 535 Murders.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2101
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: NE450No2]
      #111047 - 04/08/08 01:54 PM

What city is that NE450No2?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3475
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: szihn]
      #111062 - 04/08/08 07:59 PM

Quote:

move to Wyoming...We have on of the lowest rates of violent crime in the nation, and the world.



Steve:
Our murder rate in Australia is a tad lower than yours. You had 9 murders in Wyoming in 2006, which equals 1.75 per 100,000. In Australia we had 1.73 per 100,000 nation-wide (including our big cities).

Here, concealed carry other than for security or specialised employment reasons is illegal in all states, and handgun ownership is very strictly controlled (ie. minimum 12 attendances per year at pistol clubs, probation periods, etc). Nobody carries.

...so how do we explain that!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2101
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Marrakai]
      #111066 - 04/08/08 10:48 PM

Well, if those statistics are true, (I know it is for Wyoming. We have about 500,000 people state wide, and we had 5 murders this year. Wyoming is just a little smaller then Germany in land mass) I would have to say that those of us here in Wyoming can own and carry handguns and your people can't, so we have more freedom, yet you still have about the same murder rate.
Your people are subjugated more then ours and it didn't help you a bit did it?

History shows us that most people will defend their laws even when those laws are bad rather than take responsibility for being part of the problem, so they don't have to be part of the solution.
It’s easier that way, and when it gets too oppressive, they then blame someone in their past, rather then shoulder the responsibility that’s theirs to carry.
It’s no different here. See how our economy is about to fail?

That’s because most Americans think “it’s someone else's problem” and “someone ought to fix it”
But try to get them to involve themselves (not just vote, but do something . Like remove their money from banks, join a tax movement, boycott a globalist agenda and so on.........and they say they can’t . It’s too much work and too risky
Well, all rights have to be exercised against the force that would oppose those rights, and it’s been that way for 6000 years of recorded history.
We have more freedoms then you, but I believe that’s going to change in the next 2 months, because the average American is waiting for someone else to “do something’
The wait is almost over I think. I hope I am wrong, but I don’t think so.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Marrakai]
      #111067 - 04/08/08 10:51 PM

Quote:

...so how do we explain that!




Here's my opinion. Take it for what it is...

Gun ownership does not and never has been an "only cause" of low crime, tho it can contribute to low crime. Many areas of the world where gun ownership is high there exists high crime and/or gun violence also.

For Americans, gun ownership as a "deterrent to crime" is something of a side street on the main highway laid out by the Constitution.

Gun ownership as laid out in that document is expressed to be a RIGHT. This is not contingent upon its utility as a DETERRENT, tho in some cases it is a deterrent.

Robbing a population of a right may have some short term utility but it is always unjust. In the case of Australia, the robbing of the right may not even appear to have ANY social repercussions because of the lack of crime in the first place, guns neither causing all crime nor stopping all crime. Point being that in a homogenous society with low crime, the mere addition of guns does not necessarily create crime. The other side of the coin is true, too. In high crime areas, removing all guns does not stop crime.

One of the main reasons Australia has such low crime is that it has a very homogenous population, culturally speaking. The Australians having been quite successful at marginalizing and/or effecting genocide on their indigenous populations and diversity of population groups representing competing values is low compared to other nations such as the USA where cultural diversity and resultant competition between highly diverse groups boggles many visitors' and social anthropologists' minds. Such success is also represented in areas of the USA; Wyoming for example.

Having grown up on the East Coast and travelled and/or lived in most of the US States, I wonder why our crime rate isn't higher than it is.

An interesting study will be, say, Norway, where a homogenous population is now being opened to relatively large numbers of foreign immigrants with competing ideals, goals, values. Just watch the crime rate there and in 20 years let's have this chat again...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #111073 - 05/08/08 12:34 AM

No reason to carry here - we get the odd stabbing - usually a native stabbing her husband when intoxicated and the drug conflicts between the bikers and East Indians for control have pretty much disappeared - the Indians involved, that is. The bikers are still here, mostly invisible - might have a murder a year but knife orchestrated, usually. Town of 90,000. Pretty quiet.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: DarylS]
      #111076 - 05/08/08 12:55 AM

What is the law regarding the use of deadly force in the various countries represented here?

Canada, Australia, UK, etc...?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3475
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: DarylS]
      #111078 - 05/08/08 01:12 AM

Interesting comments from you guys.

"Australians...effecting genocide on their indigenous populations"
Man! From what we learn here, everyone takes a back seat to the US in this regard. 'Wounded Knee' and all that.

Of course we don't have a large endemic ex-pat African population, nor the historic racial intolerance for that ethnic group that would appear to be a contributing factor to the high rates of violent crime in the US today.

You might think that Australians are 'subjugated' and have lost their freedom, but that is complete BS. The fact that Americans need a concealed firearm to feel safe suggests that they lost their true freedom long ago, ie the freedom to go anywhere and do anything without feeling threatened. Freedom from the fear of assault or murder. The freedom to trust others. The freedom to just relax!

BC sound very nice, Daryl, but the cold climate wouldn't suit me!


Look, for the purposes of this thread, you'll just have to ignore us Aussies. We can own as many firearms as we like. We can go hunting whenever we like, there is no bag limit on buffalo and boar, no tags, no open season, no costs other than a tank of fuel and a counter-meal at the pub on the way home. My mates and I can take 7 ducks and seven geese every day of the four-month waterfowl season, at any of the 5 public hunting reserves within 40 minutes of our homes, or on private property of course.

I can walk down any street in my fair city at any time of the day or night without a care in the world.

...and I don't need concealed carry!

If that's 'subjugation', I surrender!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Marrakai]
      #111079 - 05/08/08 01:25 AM

9.3 - you may use only "as much force as is necessary to prevent the continuation of the offense". Used to be Section 25 of the Canadian Criminal Code.
: Thus, if deadly force is being used against you, you may use deadly force to stop or prevent it.
: Marrakai - isn't cold here as we're only 1/2 way up the Province - there's another 500 miles of roads North of us. It's cold up there, though. I've been moose hunting at minus 56C. That was a mite chilly. One must dress for the weather. When it gets hot enough that you don't need a light jacket or sweater, it's too hot. Anything over about 18C (about 65F) is too warm.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Marrakai]
      #111080 - 05/08/08 01:29 AM

Quote:

Interesting comments from you guys.

"Australians...effecting genocide on their indigenous populations"
Man! From what we learn here, everyone takes a back seat to the US in this regard. 'Wounded Knee' and all that.

My point isn't to say that genocide didn't occur in the USA. THAT goes without stating, tho the current state of affairs among the indigenous poulations is that they receive staggering amounts of benefits not offered to other population groups.

My point was that in Australia, the whites have been very successful in marginalizing the indigenous population so they are not a threat. Those populations are, of course, not large and never were, so they are less important probably than the fact that mass immigration from all four winds has not been the experience of Australia. It has been in the USA.


You might think that Australians are 'subjugated' and have lost their rights, but that is complete BS.

Marrakai, no argument about the need, just a statement of fact; where a population has had the right to arms taken away, a right has been abridged. That you can hunt where you like is nice but not the point.

...and I don't need concealed carry!

THAT is a blessing and one I hope your children and grandchildren etc can assert as well. You guys have done a lot of good in your country, and have established a, on the whole, wonderful society that has many things to teach us Americans. The abridgement of a right that is not at present needed notwithstanding.






--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: NE450No2]
      #111083 - 05/08/08 02:02 AM

It is destined to only get worse. The high gas prices, food prices, drugs like methamphetamine, cocaine, inflation, poverty, political unrest. Sounds like Zimbabwe doesnt it. I was talking about Kentucky though. I should add ammo prices to the list!

--------------------
One day at a time...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: bigmaxx]
      #111097 - 05/08/08 05:28 AM

In a study published a few years ago by the "Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy", they found that Norway has 0.81 murders per 100.000, while Luxembourg for example has 9.01 murders per 100.000. What makes this interesting is that Norway has 36000 gun owners per 100.000, while Luxembourg basically has none!

Bare in mind that it is illegal to carry or use guns for personal protection here, but what the report showed was that a high number of legal guns in the population has nothing to do with creating more violent crime. Since most criminals have illegal guns.

FWIW, the report said that the US has 5,6 murders nationwide per 100.000, which was a significant decrease from the previous 15 years, where the number (nationwide) was as high as 10 per 100.000!

Russia on the otherhand has about 4000 gunowners per 100.000, yet has 20.54 murders per 100.000!

It also showed that a few years ago when there was apparently an increase in US states that allowed concealed carry, the number of violent crimes and murders decreased significantly.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #111099 - 05/08/08 05:44 AM

Quote:


An interesting study will be, say, Norway, where a homogenous population is now being opened to relatively large numbers of foreign immigrants with competing ideals, goals, values. Just watch the crime rate there and in 20 years let's have this chat again...




Despite the current, rather low numbers of violent crime and murders (as mentioned in the above post), I am unfortunately 100% sure that your prediction will be correct. We are seeing signs of it already...

What makes this doubly irritating is that our buraucrats are working hard at this very moment to constrict legal gun ownership as much as possible (and their goal is undoubtedly to eliminate ALL civilian gun ownership in the future), as they proclaim they are "battling crime". Despite it being proved as mentioned that legal guns have nothing to do with the level of crime.

Sometimes I wonder if these Norwegian buraucrats are working directly under orders of the Kremlin., trying to turn our nation into the very last Sovjet state...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: EricD]
      #111104 - 05/08/08 06:52 AM

.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: EricD]
      #111113 - 05/08/08 10:06 AM

I guess I am not that (?sp)adventurous--it would seems an unnecessary and imprudent risk to go into unstable areas or areas of civil unrest-- seems illogical to me.

If you are comfortable with those risks-great!!I would agree your wits are more important than any firearm you can carry.But there may come a time when no matter how sharp you are you may have no option except violence. It happens--

As for me,if I can't have a signifigant degree of security in some fashion--no, I won't go there and use my "wits" to survive. Why take the risk? For what purpose? A big white guy like me in Africa stands out like a sore thumb and attracts way to much attention.Guess I always want a legal trump card!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (05/08/08 10:29 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: EricD]
      #111116 - 05/08/08 10:36 AM

Quote:

A question; facing the potential dangers that can be encountered when traveling alone in some regions of Africa (or other not quite peaceful 3rd world countries found elsewhere), without the help of a local PH/guide/etc, and without knowing anyone else in the countries, would the gentlemen here who insist on carrying a concealed firearm prefer to stay at home, since they couldn't bring their sidearm, or leave the sidearm back in the US, using their wits to try to survive?




Erik, all interesting posts.

I have not covered the Continent from top to bottom as you have, but like you, most of the thousands of miles of travel I have spent on the ground in Africa I have covered unarmed. Yes, I would do so again.

Unlike you and unfortunately, I did spend 3 days under arrest in then-Zaire, now Congo in what was an unpleasant situation that could have been far worse...if I had been armed. Also, due to the Christian missionary work I was involved in from time to time, the decision we had made was that we would not resist if attacked or otherwise persecuted for our work and/or beliefs.

A few more points:

First is that I assert that the right to be armed is one a government should not prevent its citizens from exercising whether they need it or not. A right taken away when it is not needed will not be there to exercise when it is needed.

Second is that TRAVEL is much different than LIVING in an area. When you travel you take a risk, albeit possibly high, but for a limited duration. Living in an area of high crime is a different circumstance, and highlights my last point:

The threats you and I have experienced in travel almost all would have been exacerbated by our being armed. The threats experienced by Hoppdoc may or may not be exacerbated by being armed, but by carrying a weapon concealed, for the most part his armed status will not be known unless he chooses to make it so. He can of course always live by his wits, and must, armed or not. But by being armed he has recourse to a solution the unarmed man does not possess.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Marrakai]
      #111160 - 05/08/08 09:00 PM

Marrakai--

Apples and Oranges--

Plus not using a right doesn't mean not needing a right.

Our respective "crime" populations are entirely different.
See who populates the jails.65% of the inmates while only 25% of the population.And getting WORSE.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/jailrair.htm

If you look at the majority of of violent crime in the states we have created our own monster by entitlement programs. We have fed the beast by promoting and enabling societal disintegration of blacks by welfare entitlement programs.The prominent CATO institute endorses this view as well.

http://www.cato.org/testimony/ct-wc67.html

http://www.heritage.org/research/religion/bg983.cfm

These programs spent billions of dollars with these people now worse off than before.

Combine the white/black cultures with the black entitlement mentality and you get worsening CRIME with the white man as the "cause".My feeling-Better to have dispursed these monies thru churches if only to behaviorly influence these folks intead of having their "hood mentality".

Marrakai-if you lived here your thoughts would be interesting indeed!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2101
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #111168 - 05/08/08 11:42 PM

Well politics aside for just one moment, a FACT that's mathematically unavoidable is this;

Any society that give special protection to fools and criminals is going to have an over-abundance of fools and criminals.
That's the USA today.

But that's not the worst part.
Another fact can be stated thus;
Any society that generally allows it's political enemies to hold office is doomed.
That's also the USA today.

By far, most of the elected officials today from your local DAs and Sheriffs to the highest federal offices and all it's judges, are against the clear reading of the constitution.

They tell you that they can prohibit you from traveling, getting married, carrying a gun, working, calling for justice against them, having a church without a license. (which they control) Holding them accountable and liable for their actions is now called subversive.

Mandatory “education” in government schools. Anything that is based in the Bible is criminalized if it’s put forth as a curriculum, but anything from any other religion is put forth as “education”.

They demand you show all the money you earn and where it’s either spent of saved, what you can and can’t do with your own home, and the list goes on and on.

And the average American doesn’t even concern himself with these facts. It’s just “too hard” to get involved, and it ‘might be risky” So we allow out kids to have less liberty then we do, and our grand-kids even less then our kids.
We accept the destruction of the Bill of Rights’ as “just how it is these days”

As I said in my last post, it’s not any different here than any other country where people are told they are free. You should read history from the USSR from the 1830 until the 1990s and see how much they were told they were free there too, and how many of them believed it even in the years of Stalin. Out turn is coming and if the people don’t wake up to these facts it’s going to be too late.

1% of the people think
5% of the people think they think
94% of the people would rather die than think

You think those are harsh words?
Look at the huge numbers of people that back and vote for Obama.
Look at how liberal (communist) John McCain's voting record is.
Look at the fact that most folks here in the USA never vote FOR anyone. They only vote against someone, and therefore can be easily manipulated.

Our founding fathers knew what to do, but our people today think “it’s just too dangerous”
What we lack is organization and courage. the courage has to come first.
The saddest part of all is the fact that no blood needs to be shed at all, if out people would just have courage to stand together for a common and right cause.
But TV and entertainment is more important to them.

Every man that ever did anything of significance in history was someone that didn’t accept that “it’s just the way it is, and I can’t do anything”.
For good or for evil, all the movers of history were men and women that didn’t believe it ‘just has to be this way”
The rest are “sheep“. Some believe they are “thinking sheep”, but still sheep none the less.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: szihn]
      #111198 - 06/08/08 10:24 AM

I agree with szihn-

Pardon the soapbox, but--

It is sad indeed, actually tragic--

America is surely evolving toward a nanny,socialist state. There is progressive micromanipulation of every parameters of peoples lives.We have an increasingly intrusive federal bureaucracy with politicians entrenching themselves.

No individual freedoms are respected except maybe those of criminals. Where did the Fourth Amendment disappear to??

The real problem--THE VOTERS!!! They "feel" but as stated above they DON"T THINK!!

Ask them a real question and you get the "deer in the headlights" look.

They do not care about being informed, just about being coddled and their lives made easier--That is their only goal and this attitude is guaranteed to destroy individual freedoms in this country.

America was once a great nation-God help us when Obama gets elected because we will surely descent into a liberal hell.A democratic legislature will tax and restrict freedoms faster than any court can reverse these insults.

Sad times for true patriots, confused times for the bumfuzzled self centered american voter.They think-"Can I get more entitlements from the largesse of the government??" Will these fools even know what rights the government is taking away from them??

I doubt it--Most are clueless--

How depressing, but patriots must press hard so the clueless might listen--maybe someday, maybe not to late.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
foxfire
.375 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 511
Loc: Long Island N.Y.,
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #111201 - 06/08/08 11:19 AM

Concealed permit carrying, NRA dues paying "Sheepdog" checking in.

--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: foxfire]
      #111205 - 06/08/08 12:00 PM

This place is "going to the dogs"....LOL!

--------------------
One day at a time...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: DarylS]
      #111220 - 06/08/08 09:28 PM

Quote:

No reason to carry here - we get the odd stabbing - usually a native stabbing her husband when intoxicated and the drug conflicts between the bikers and East Indians for control have pretty much disappeared - the Indians involved, that is. The bikers are still here, mostly invisible - might have a murder a year but knife orchestrated, usually. Town of 90,000. Pretty quiet.





Darryl,

Read just this past week of some freak in a Greyhound bus --somewhere in Canada..that starting stabbing a guy that was sleeping in his seat next to him..in the story I read., the wacko stabbed the guy 40 to 50 times...bus driver stopped the bus and everyone ran out...when the bus driver and another passenger went back in to see what was going on..the murderer was walking to the front of the bus carrying the passengers head..which he had completely severed...then walked back to the corpse and starting gutting the guy out....

To my knowledge, Canada has very strict gun laws and you can not legally own a handgun??..my thoughts were, as I read that story was, wonder what the outcome would have been had someone in that bus been carrying a handgun?? The innocent passenger might still have been dead..but maybe not..

No area is completely safe...even the small communities have the occassional murders..however much safer as Hoppdoc points out,,than the large metro areas...

BTW, I read that story while having coffee Saturday morning in Sturgis...attending a biker rally..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Ripp]
      #111221 - 06/08/08 09:39 PM

Read this early today from SCI email...per the thread...thought it would fit in good here...

Ripp




HSUS Makes Absurd Claim

The National Park Service is currently reviewing regulations that would allow individuals to carry firearms on Park Service lands as long as the individuals are in compliance with local and state laws. In rabid opposition to this common-sense proposal, the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) has made an absurd statement claiming that law abiding citizens who carry firearms on National Parks will ultimately cause the demise of wildlife in America and incite poaching. Poaching, the illegal and unethical killing of animals is reprehensible to the hunting community. HSUS’s absurd statement that allowing American citizens the right to protect themselves on National Park lands will cause a greater frequency of poaching is outlandish. The real truth is that violent crime on federal lands is sadly common, and individuals should be allowed to exercise their right to carry under state and local laws. The comment period on this proposal remains open until August 8. Please submit your comments on-line at: http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=DocumentDetail&o=090000648053d497 (Select the icon next to "Add Comments")

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
eljefedouble
.300 member


Reged: 23/04/06
Posts: 189
Loc: Vic, Australia
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Ripp]
      #111228 - 06/08/08 11:00 PM

Szihn,
''By far, most of the elected officials today from your local DAs and Sheriffs to the highest federal offices and all it's judges, are against the clear reading of the constitution.''
too true, and I thought it was good only for India

do excuse the ignorance, but IIRC,i remember reading thought he's a war hero, ex vietnam vet, VC POW etc? mccain a commie?

Ripp, the last I read, that canadian knifer was EATING the deceased...

Edited by eljefedouble (06/08/08 11:23 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2101
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: eljefedouble]
      #111233 - 07/08/08 12:25 AM

eljefedouble, check out McCain's voting record in the last 18 years of his political career, and you'll see how many times he's voted to forward the cause of international communism.
Obama can't even come close. Obama has only 2 years in the Senate, but McCain has MANY years as a politician and his voting record is open to the public, if people would just check it out.
He's been a "Liberals liberal" for many years.

("liberal" is the word we use in the USA to say "communist", because the defining word “communist” is too revealing.
Just as in Russia, many if not most communists don't even know what a communist is. But, a communist is someone that supports the 10 planks of the socialist manifesto. Knowing where those planks are written is not relevant to the fact. If they support all the premises of communism, they are a communist ----- even though they don't know it, or even if they don't want to know it)

Edited by szihn (08/08/08 11:43 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: szihn]
      #111235 - 07/08/08 12:36 AM

Ripp - I own a number of legally owned handguns. I shoot they fairly regularly at the local gun club just to keep my hand in.
: I can pack them up (properly) and drive to any registered range in BC to shoot them and with invitaion, to any gun club in Canada - even if it happens to be in Newfoundland - a good 8 to 10 day drive. With a U.S. Form 6 Import licence, I can drive to any US/Canadian border crossing and hunt with my handguns in accordance with the laws in the US, ie: Montana. I can't hunt with them here in BC as it's illegal. I presently cannot legally carry one while hunting in the bush by myself, but may obtain a licence to carry one when guiding.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike_Johnson
.300 member


Reged: 17/10/09
Posts: 104
Loc: York, Pa
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #143921 - 19/10/09 07:35 AM

Sheepdog: GOT SIG?? 226 Combat with Blackwater grips, 20 round mag, or smith 60-3 Pro with night sights, or Bond Derringer .357. Always ready to dance.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Mike_Johnson]
      #143934 - 19/10/09 11:31 AM

Quote:

Sheepdog: GOT SIG?? 226 Combat with Blackwater grips, 20 round mag, or smith 60-3 Pro with night sights, or Bond Derringer .357. Always ready to dance.




Hopefully it will be a tune your are familiar with..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ChinaFleetSailor
.224 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 44
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: DarylS]
      #145317 - 07/11/09 10:36 AM

Quote:




I can walk down any street in my fair city at any time of the day or night without a care in the world.

...and I don't need concealed carry!

If that's 'subjugation', I surrender!




It's a good thing you don't need it. Because it isn't an option available to you.

Personally, I enjoy having the option available. I don't have a CHL, because in Texas the restrictions on carrying a gun without a license are so minimal. When I'm on my own property, both at home and work, I can carry. And I can't be arrested for unlawful carry of a weapon in my car. As long as the gun is not in plain view and I'm not doing anything criminal. I'm presumed under the law to be "traveling." And when I am actually traveling, I can carry concealed.

About the only restriction on carrying a gun in Texas that really bothers me is the fact that I'm not allowed to carry a concealed weapon within a thousand feet of a place of execution on the day an execution is to take place.

DAMMIT! That's a lot of territory here in Texas.

In all seriousness, if you're under the impression that we in the states live in fear for our lives and need to pack heat just to work up the courage to head out the door, then get over it.

I live near and work in Dallas. Which is likely a higher crime area than many of those posting so far hail from. And it isn't particularly life threatening. It's pretty safe, actually. If you couldn't walk down the street any time of the day or night, I would have chosen a different spot for my restaurant.

The fact that I can drive around with a loaded handgun in the glove box is just sort of a nice perk for being an American.

Quote:

Look, for the purposes of this thread, you'll just have to ignore us Aussies. We can own as many firearms as we like. We can go hunting whenever we like, there is no bag limit on buffalo and boar, no tags, no open season, no costs other than a tank of fuel and a counter-meal at the pub on the way home. My mates and I can take 7 ducks and seven geese every day of the four-month waterfowl season, at any of the 5 public hunting reserves within 40 minutes of our homes, or on private property of course.




Everything you wrote in that paragraph could apply equally to Texas. Except for the Buffalo. But I think the fact that I can pop a mountain lion any time I run across one sort of makes up for that.

Oh, and the geese. If you think shooting 14 birds a day is something special, you ought to check out our spring snow goose season. Everything short of live decoys is legal, and there is no bag limit.

Think of Texas as Australia but with more options when it comes to personal weaponry. And inferior beer.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: ChinaFleetSailor]
      #145370 - 08/11/09 07:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:



The fact that I can drive around with a loaded handgun in the glove box is just sort of a nice perk for being an American.

=================



Agree totally-- I live in one of the lowest crime areas of the U.S.--but I still prefer to carry--for both 2 and 4 legged hostiles..odds are I will never use it--but if I ever do--plan to be prepared..One never knows what kind of crap can come down the road in lifes adventures..even for something as simple as putting an animal out of its misery that has been hit by an auto on the highway --they come in pretty handy..

The U.S. has one of the largest nuclear arsenals as well..Odds are we will never use it but still makes for a heck of a deterrent..feel the same about a handgun or any other gun for that matter...


=============================
Quote:

Oh, and the geese. If you think shooting 14 birds a day is something special, you ought to check out our spring snow goose season. Everything short of live decoys is legal, and there is no bag limit.
++++++++++


As to this --not sure what the limit is now --but back in N Dakota--I know for a while you could shoot geese by the dozens in the spring as there were too many and they were permanently damaging their habitat..kind of like the elephant are now doing in certain parts of Africa..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (08/11/09 08:46 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Checkman
.333 member


Reged: 15/03/08
Posts: 256
Loc: Idaho
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Ripp]
      #145379 - 08/11/09 11:40 AM

I carry both on and off duty. I figure you never know and as the years go by I find myself running into more and more people who remember me.

Just a couple months ago I went home for lunch and the garbage truck was doing it's pickup. One of the garbagemen remembered me taking him to jail on October 31, 2001 for domestic battery. I barely remembered that call. But he was fine and shook my hand. Evidently that arrest got him into AA and he dried out and he and his wife are still together. Actually as a garabage man he probably makes more than me. But the point is as the years go by that experience is becoming common.

However I am a supporter of the 2A and support the Concealed Carry Permit program here in Idaho.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Checkman]
      #145422 - 09/11/09 02:24 AM

If I lived in the States, I'd be carrying, too.
Pretty safe here, but there's normally a rifle or shotgun handy in the vehicle. I don't walk much, prefer to drive.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Checkman
.333 member


Reged: 15/03/08
Posts: 256
Loc: Idaho
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: DarylS]
      #145425 - 09/11/09 02:44 AM

Chances are I'll never need it, but what if? That's the big thing. What if?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: DarylS]
      #145433 - 09/11/09 03:03 AM

Quote:

If I lived in the States, I'd be carrying, too.





The really amazing thing Darryl is in most states where there is concealed carry laws or have just passed such laws..violent crime decreases rapidly...perfect example is Florida--look at their statistics since their laws have opened up more friendly to gun ownership...pretty amazing story really..and yes, if I lived there I too would be packing all the time..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Ripp]
      #145481 - 09/11/09 05:29 PM

Instead of worrying about carrying firearms during daily life, why not press for removing the criminal problem? Remove the source of the problem. I know easier said than done. Especially with the "ethnic" flavour of much of the problem.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Empire375
.300 member


Reged: 18/08/09
Posts: 239
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: NitroX]
      #145485 - 09/11/09 06:40 PM

Hi NitroX

You have hit the nail on the head. Why are our governments so worried about guns owners when the crim and creeps roam free ?
It seems in Australia we are so entrenched in rewarding or ignoring stupidity that we are going to be in big trouble in the near future (both ethnically and with our own homegrown deadshits)
Its not easier said than done. Its really quite simple. Enforce the law and stop tying up police with politically correct bulldust.
Give them real authority and let them do what we pay them for.

We should all be allowed to carry pistols also


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Checkman
.333 member


Reged: 15/03/08
Posts: 256
Loc: Idaho
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Empire375]
      #145500 - 10/11/09 12:48 AM

I have no answers except that alot of our troubles comes from the fact that there are so many of us. Everywhere. More people equals more trouble.I wonder if nature is going to sock us with some type of massive Die-Off. Isn't that how nature works to keep things in balance? You guys are sportsmen/hunters and know about these things.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Empire375]
      #145501 - 10/11/09 01:30 AM

Quote:

Hi NitroX
Why are our governments so worried about guns owners when the crim and creeps roam free ?
We should all be allowed to carry pistols also




Gee, lets examine that question...
Wwhy would our goverments be so alarmed and worried about US having guns?? Probably because they want FULL power and control over everyone and everything..I know--I sound like a "right wing extremist" when I say that--but, perfect example is the sham for a health care reform package--2000 pages of more useless spending..so the lazy who dont want to work will keep voting the liberal democrates in office...this bill will take care of 2% of the U.S. population--yet with all the fuss one would think the friggin world will come to an end if its not passed...plus the fact more are opposed than support this crap legislation...

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: NitroX]
      #145510 - 10/11/09 02:57 AM

Quote:

Instead of worrying about carrying firearms during daily life, why not press for removing the criminal problem? Remove the source of the problem. I know easier said than done. Especially with the "ethnic" flavour of much of the problem.




Exactly - I spent 30 years of my working life as a Peace Officer & the problem is exactly in the 'court's hands, ie; politics, courts & judiceries ARE the problem, at least here, they are.

For expample - when a proposal was made by the RCMPolice Commission for ammendments to the gun bill to make it workable and have some effect on crime, the Attorney General of Canada stated that: crime prevention and having more criminals doing extended time was not the 'drive' of the legislation. That, my friends is pretty much a quote.

So, yeah - most often, I have 'something' to settle arguements with, if the 'need' arrose, tha this.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JohnWilkes
.300 member


Reged: 19/01/09
Posts: 113
Loc: SA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: DarylS]
      #145553 - 10/11/09 09:55 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Instead of worrying about carrying firearms during daily life, why not press for removing the criminal problem? Remove the source of the problem. I know easier said than done. Especially with the "ethnic" flavour of much of the problem.




Exactly - I spent 30 years of my working life as a Peace Officer & the problem is exactly in the 'court's hands, ie; politics, courts & judiceries ARE the problem, at least here, they are.

For expample - when a proposal was made by the RCMPolice Commission for ammendments to the gun bill to make it workable and have some effect on crime, the Attorney General of Canada stated that: crime prevention and having more criminals doing extended time was not the 'drive' of the legislation. That, my friends is pretty much a quote.




Good point Daryl as a former Police officer I wholeheartedly agree, the inability(unwillingness?) of the courts to meet out proper deterrents is largely the cause of much of what we see in terms of unchecked criminality and the disenchantment of law enforcement officers.

Bail in this state is seen as a "comply if you like" option with many offenders in a revolving
door of breach and new bail, breach and new bail. This was not the case 20yrs ago. Non payment of fines and costs warrants are a thing of the past.

Marrakai is right Australia is a lucky country....but, and it is a big but, most Aussies do not know how lucky they are. Because they live in an unarguably safe society they find it hard to grasp the concept of one that is less so. It is very hard for them to understand the volatile dynamics of
much of the rest of the world.I do not say this in anyway to belittle or put down my adopted country
merely to explain to others how it is here.

A simple example: when I first came to this country(late 80s) I went for a walk during my first week down Rundle Mall a pleasant pedestrian shopping street in Adelaide. Outside various shops catering to teenage fashion were piled school bags and backpacks, this was because I later found out these shops were concerned with theft by schoolkids so made them leave bags outside.
Having been living in the UK and Middle East where an unattended bag was (and is) a cause for
concern it struck me most very strongly how lucky and safe Australia was (and still in world terms
is).

Sadly even here violent crime is rising. Shootings involving illegal handguns even in Adelaide (a city not noted as being particularly "hardboiled")are markedly increased. During my time as a copper
the number of knives used in assaults and found in possesion of undesirables in city night spots etc rose dramaticaly.

There is a definite need for a new look at the whole crime and criminality issue. Building super max
jails isn't the answer and nor is the current slap on the wrist and a chat with the psych and the social worker.

Having lived and worked in countries where I had to carry a personal defence handgun I am quite glad I don't have to here. Having said that if I lived in RSA or certain parts of the US etc would I do so again? You bet I would.

--------------------
Horses for courses
Guns for game
Hounds for grounds


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ChinaFleetSailor
.224 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 44
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: NitroX]
      #145580 - 10/11/09 04:07 PM

Quote:

Instead of worrying about carrying firearms during daily life, why not press for removing the criminal problem? Remove the source of the problem. I know easier said than done. Especially with the "ethnic" flavour of much of the problem.




Look at the reaction to the Fort Hood shooting, Nitrox.

As far as the Dept. of Homeland Security is concerned, the major danger is the imaginary anti-Muslim backlash.

Something that has never happened in U.S. history.

The Obama administration, and the political left in general, are convinced that the "right" is the danger. And they won't be deterred from their conviction no matter how many non-Muslims are killed by Muslims and how few are killed by the right. No matter what happens, the left is ideologically committed to the thought that the major danger to the U.S. are the Southern Baptists. Who's only crime against me, as far as I'm concerned, when living in what's known as the Bible Belt, is preventing me from buying beer from midnight Saturday until Monday.

Oh, the horror! I had to buy all the beer I needed for the week-end by sometime on Saturday or else go without.

What you guys outside the country have to understand is that many of us see this expression of our rights is not an expression of our fear over crime.

It's an expression of the fact that we won't be separated from our rights. I jumped on the bandwagon in the late '90's, not because I was mugged or robbed. But because of Janet Reno's attitude toward the fear of crime. It was inappropriate, she said, for people to demand the right to carry when the crime rate was going down. On the other hand, it was perfectly appropriate for the populace to demand the government take greater and greater control over their lives due to the fear of crime, whether or not that fear was warranted.

The fact of the matter is I see these concealed carry laws as the antidote to the left enshrining their political preferences as a matter of law. Part of the antidote, not the entire cure. I'm glad you guys in the Commonwealth feel secure enough in your manhood to walk down the street unarmed, therefore you don't need concealed carry.

But I think you're missing the point. I won't tolerate any infringement on my rights, even if I don't believe I'll need to exercise that right in the near future.

Why do I want liberal concealed carry laws? Because I value freedom.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: ChinaFleetSailor]
      #145608 - 11/11/09 04:51 AM

Quote:


But I think you're missing the point. I won't tolerate any infringement on my rights, even if I don't believe I'll need to exercise that right in the near future.

Why do I want liberal concealed carry laws? Because I value freedom.




Hits the 'thread' right on the head. Spot-on, ChinaFleetSailor

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JohnWilkes
.300 member


Reged: 19/01/09
Posts: 113
Loc: SA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: ChinaFleetSailor]
      #145625 - 11/11/09 12:06 PM

Sorry if my post caused you angst ChinaFleet. Not intended.I am most certainly not claiming any superiority of one nation over another and in fact if you read my post you will see this.
In fact this thread covers two distinct issues:

1. That which pertains to crime and particularly armed and violent crime wherever it may be in the
world and peoples need/legal ability/desire or whatever to carry defensive weapons.

2. The second and USA specific issue being that crime or no crime threat or no threat it is a constitutional right of an American citizen to bear arms.


Thomas Jefferson I believe put it thus "It is the right and DUTY,of the people to be at all times armed".

Not just a right but a duty. I think it is this that some do not understand.

From a personal point of view the American Bill of Rights is the most splendid
political document it is a tragedy to see its erosion. 2nd amendment badly chipped away, 10th
effectivley gone. 1st amendment debased to benefit pornographers and whatever.

--------------------
Horses for courses
Guns for game
Hounds for grounds


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: ChinaFleetSailor]
      #145653 - 11/11/09 09:10 PM

Quote:

The Obama administration, and the political left in general, are convinced that the "right" is the danger. And they won't be deterred from their conviction no matter how many non-Muslims are killed by Muslims and how few are killed by the right. No matter what happens, the left is ideologically committed to the thought that the major danger to the U.S. are the Southern Baptists. Who's only crime against me, as far as I'm concerned, when living in what's known as the Bible Belt, is preventing me from buying beer from midnight Saturday until Monday.




Well Obama's "origins" show whom he is interested in protecting.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ChinaFleetSailor
.224 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 44
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: JohnWilkes]
      #145757 - 13/11/09 05:27 AM

Quote:

Sorry if my post caused you angst ChinaFleet. Not intended.I am most certainly not claiming any superiority of one nation over another and in fact if you read my post you will see this.
In fact this thread covers two distinct issues:

1. That which pertains to crime and particularly armed and violent crime wherever it may be in the
world and peoples need/legal ability/desire or whatever to carry defensive weapons.

2. The second and USA specific issue being that crime or no crime threat or no threat it is a constitutional right of an American citizen to bear arms.


Thomas Jefferson I believe put it thus "It is the right and DUTY,of the people to be at all times armed".

Not just a right but a duty. I think it is this that some do not understand.

From a personal point of view the American Bill of Rights is the most splendid
political document it is a tragedy to see its erosion. 2nd amendment badly chipped away, 10th
effectivley gone. 1st amendment debased to benefit pornographers and whatever.




Your post didn't cause me angst. I must admit my government causes me angst. It seems to have slipped its leash.

I have no interest in telling people how to live their own lives. But here in the states we have a particular theory of government. That a just government derives its powers from the consent of the governed.

Consequently, it is unjust for a government to try to exercise powers that no one consented to give it.

The thing about carrying guns is, it isn't so much that it's dangerous to walk our streets. Although if you believe your TV news, I can understand how you'd get that impression. If I believed one quarter of the crap I was told about the U.S. when stationed overseas I'd have never come home.

It's more of a matter of reminding our government who's in charge. In case you haven't noticed, we have a criminal class in congress that constantly needs reminding.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: NitroX]
      #145782 - 13/11/09 01:34 PM

Quote:

Well Obama's "origins" show whom he is interested in protecting.




This is absolutely true.

Hussein's first words after the Islamist extremist attack at Ft Hood were to admonish people not to jump to conclusions.

The communist bastard faking his way thru the Presidency is a danger to all freedom-loving Americans, not just those who exercise their right to carry. His inexperience and pie-in-the-sky beliefs are a particular threat to Christians and Jews, though truth is, leftists that support him will have a rude awakening when Sharia law comes to their city or county.

Now we read in the leftist press that Hasan is deranged and crazy because he did what he did. They say his motives weren't political, they were inspired by his insanity...

Who cares?

And those who wear a dynamite girdle and spread their arms, guts and heads all over veggie markets in Iraq, Indonesia and elsewhere are somber, thinking individuals?

Hasan's attack was an Al Queda attack and needs to be treated as such, and the Army needs to get its act together and identify Muslim Islamist extremists within its ranks and deal with them.

Obviously we have a very few members of our armed forces who are commited Islamist extremists, sane or not. Tolerating them or respecting their views is no way to deal with them. Pretending to respect Islam will not protect anyone. Even being a Muslim will not be of any value in protecting oneself from their rampages. Remember Sadat. Sadat though a Muslim was killed by just such people.

There is no rational way to deal with Islamist extremists. Political correctness is no answer to the internal threat.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9.3x57 (13/11/09 10:00 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dphariss
.300 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #146150 - 18/11/09 03:09 PM

It is better to be armed and not need it that to need a firearm and not have it.

If I get very far from home I have an AR and at least 4 magazines with me in the vehicle. Its a carry over from my time spent when we were "killing commies for our mommies". I had abandoned this practice for years did not resume until recently. But I find I need a flat-top with a scope now.

The incident at FT Hood could be recreated at a Wal-Mart or mall near you just as easy as not. If it does and you are unarmed you better have a place to hide or a door to get out of and hope its not "covered" from the outside.
The cops will arrive in time to count the dead and wounded.
We, the general population at least, have been put to sleep on the religious war we are fighting and this is very dangerous. Ft Hood was one of many ignored wakeup calls we have had. 9-11, the DC sniper, several fatal attacks by Islamic members of the US military on their comrades both abroad and in the states.
Islam is NOT nor has it every been a peaceful religion. They have converted by the sword from day one. But its not PC to say this.

Dan


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Dphariss]
      #305610 - 22/09/17 01:08 AM

Saw this thread from days gone by..perhaps even more appropriate in todays world than a short 9 years ago..my how times change, and sadly, IMHO, NOT for the better regarding the world view...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Ripp]
      #305614 - 22/09/17 03:19 AM

Amazing what 'changes' have occurred since 2009!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: DarylS]
      #305635 - 22/09/17 08:21 PM

The Sheep, Wolf and Sheepdog analogy is also often used by members of the military and police.

IMO it is a good analogy to get basic and simple attitudes entrenched in the forces that support the system. Nowadays I have a certain cynical view of it all and the "sheepdog" supporting the system is actually the paid simplistic lackey of the "wolves" in charge. After all a sheepdog is a simple disciplined beast that does not question its nmasters.

It is a not warrior, it is largely a willing slave. Patted on the head if it obeys well, beaten if it doesn't. But still happy and loyal after being beaten especially when given a bone.

Therefore my question, "what about lions?" way back on the first page.

Yes, I have become very cynical.


Quote:

Hi NitroX

You have hit the nail on the head. Why are our governments so worried about guns owners when the crim and creeps roam free ?
It seems in Australia we are so entrenched in rewarding or ignoring stupidity that we are going to be in big trouble in the near future (both ethnically and with our own homegrown deadshits)
Its not easier said than done. Its really quite simple. Enforce the law and stop tying up police with politically correct bulldust.
Give them real authority and let them do what we pay them for.

We should all be allowed to carry pistols also




It is simple. The reason they concentrate on the law abiding community is because the crime is merely the excuse to assert controls on so called free people.

As Daryl and Ripp say, a lot has changed since 2009. We have all moved further down the path towards the collars on our necks being tightened another notch.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4896
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: NitroX]
      #305660 - 23/09/17 05:47 PM

The OP was taken from the following book, I believe.
On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society. by Dave Grossman

I have as yet not read this but believe it to be very good to help understand the psychology behind 3 basic people types. Just remember there are overlapping between groups so there are no clear cut lines.

Australia politically is a Democracy. In reality it is a democratic- in appearance- socialist state at this time. eg. Our constitution states that no part of Aust. can be ceded or controll given to another country/foreign body. Yet we have world heritage listed areas. The UN controls/rules these and we administer them. Re the UN. For a UN resolution to be adopted by the US it has to go before and voted on by parliament. In Aust our Ambassador to UN just has to sign it, no debating it and voting on it by our elected reps. In Aust we live in a fools paradise at this time.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Viking338
.333 member


Reged: 11/08/11
Posts: 479
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Rule303]
      #305663 - 23/09/17 09:24 PM

Yes Greg I agree, I believe even though Aust is a great county to live in we are one of the most over regulated, over governed and repressed of people. Most Aussies live in a little bubble of denial. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't want to live anywhere else but to say we live in a "free" country is totally incorrect in my opinion. My analogy is that say in the US I figure you are free to do most things and only some things are banned, whereas in Aust everything is banned unless our traitorous, corrupt politifilth have deigned to grant it to us. Yes to simplistic but this is how I feel it is, just my opinion of course. Was a great county to grow up in in the 60's and 70's but thanks to the traitors that have the keys to the farm as it were it is all sold now with nothing in the bank

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Viking338]
      #305666 - 24/09/17 03:32 AM

Pretty much described Canada as well, although not ALL freedoms have been taken away - just those that matter the most.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: DarylS]
      #305674 - 24/09/17 04:31 AM

Quote:

Pretty much described Canada as well, although not ALL freedoms have been taken away - just those that matter the most.




Agree with what has been said...and trust me, the liberal bastards here in the USA keep trying to do the same to us as well..it's just that we have that pesty thing in the way called the 2ND AMENDMENT..that keeps stopping them in their tracks in most cases..

Truth be told, guns are more alive and well now in MOST states than I believe it was 20 years ago..numerous states have done away with even needing a permit..you can just carry...

In addition there is reciprocity among the states themselves..I just did a google search entering in the state I have a license in and it states I can carry in these states as well:

Alaska, Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Missouri, Mississippi, Montana, North Carolina, North Dakota, Nebraska, Nevada, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Vermont, Washington, Wisconsin, West Virginia, Wyoming,

States I can NOT carry in, and a real shocker..:)

California, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Illinois, Massachusetts, Maryland, Maine, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina,

I was a bit surprised by New Mexico, I may need to check that as I had heard they might have changed there as well..either way, no surprise its the most left leaning liberal states in the nation..states where you are no longer responsible for your plight in life, its someone else's fault.. libtard mania has taken over..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4896
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Ripp]
      #305682 - 24/09/17 08:36 AM

We in Aust, I believe were to laid back for our own good. We are still unaware that we are the frog that is being boiled slowly. For those who do not know what this means: Put a frog in a pot full of water. Heat it slowly and he frog becomes used to the gradually increasing heat. By the time it realizes that it needs to get out, it's energy has been sapped and it can not jump out so it boiled alive.

I see this happening in most western countries. So far the US seems to be the only one fighting this and I put it down to their founding fathers having the foresight to see this when they draughted and enshrined their Constitution and its Amendments.

"Truth be told, guns are more alive and well now in MOST states than I believe it was 20 years ago.."

Ripp I put that down to people waking up and realizing where things are going, so standing up for their rights and backing the 2nd Amendment.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Rule303]
      #305728 - 26/09/17 05:03 AM

Quote:

We in Aust, I believe were to laid back for our own good. We are still unaware that we are the frog that is being boiled slowly. For those who do not know what this means: Put a frog in a pot full of water. Heat it slowly and he frog becomes used to the gradually increasing heat. By the time it realizes that it needs to get out, it's energy has been sapped and it can not jump out so it boiled alive.

I see this happening in most western countries. So far the US seems to be the only one fighting this and I put it down to their founding fathers having the foresight to see this when they draughted and enshrined their Constitution and its Amendments.

"Truth be told, guns are more alive and well now in MOST states than I believe it was 20 years ago.."

Ripp I put that down to people waking up and realizing where things are going, so standing up for their rights and backing the 2nd Amendment.




I agree that people truly are waking up a bit...many now see/realize the media for what it is ..leftist leaning bullshit washing machine stuck on the spin cycle ..

That and all that was stated would happen by the left has not happened..every time a gun law is relaxed the left cries blood will be running in the streets..yet the opposite happens..and crime actually goes down..weird..


Finally the politicians in many of the states have realized if they attack gun rights too far their political career may be short lived..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: You Carry? You a "sheep", "wolf" or "sheepdog" type?? [Re: Ripp]
      #305742 - 26/09/17 10:56 PM

Just saw this earlier--confirming my thoughts..gun sales are at an all time high ..

https://www.americanrifleman.org/article...m_campaign=0917

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | >> (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 28 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  NitroX 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 24408

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved